argentinas got this in the bag now

7/2/2010 6:56:34 PM

no it's like in basketball, if players goaltended, instead of giving them the points, they made them shoot free throws.

the shot was 100 percent going in. they shouldn't have to take another shot to determine if that first shot was going in. you're lying if you think that shot wasn't going in or there was a chance it might not go in.

suarez took advantage of a really dumb rule. its stupid and good for him for taking advantage of it.

7/2/2010 6:59:55 PM

You can't guarantee me that ball wouldn't dip at the last second and glance off a head instead of hands, just like you can't guarantee that a guy on a breakaway with the keeper up for a set piece is going to put the ball in the next from four feet away.

Until the ball is over the line, it's not. You can't just award goals when you feel like it.

7/2/2010 7:01:50 PM

give me a break dude.

7/2/2010 7:04:16 PM

you can't compare it to basketball, because goals vs. baskets aren't as heavily weighed.

and the shot absolutely was destined to go in. i don't think anybody is arguing otherwise. he took a red card, made the sacrifice, and gave his teammates one more chance to survive. he wasn't there to shoot PK's, and he'll miss the next game. It's not like he's getting away with something here. The punishment is pretty severe, but the reward was worth the risk in this case.

7/2/2010 7:04:36 PM

You can't prove it was going over the line. That's a FACT. The rule exists as it does because you can't give goals that didn't happen.

Does it favor the defense? Absolutely. The alternative would be to give the referee discretion to give goals that might be going in, and that's a can of worms exponentially larger than how cynical the goal-saving handball might be.

7/2/2010 7:06:23 PM

this is basically like the thierry henry situation, but no one seems to care that much.


the ball was in the middle of the goal. there is no situation, except for handballing it, where it doesn't go in. watch the video V

[Edited on July 2, 2010 at 7:09 PM. Reason : s]

7/2/2010 7:06:36 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM_1jPigMhg

Wow.

7/2/2010 7:07:31 PM

This is nothing like the Henry situation. That was a blatant call that was missed.

This is a blatant call that was handled perfectly by the referee.

7/2/2010 7:08:40 PM

Quote :

"The alternative would be to give the referee discretion to give goals that might be going in, and that's a can of worms exponentially larger than how cynical the goal-saving handball might be."

this should pretty much sum it up. i'd much prefer a player to get sent off and the offensive team be rewarded with a PK (which you should make). I wouldn't want controversy of deciding whether or not a ball may or may not have gone in.

7/2/2010 7:09:05 PM

i know the referee didn't make a mistake, i'm not arguing anything about the ref, i though he did really well in the game actually. but in both sitations a player cheated to give his team an advantage. and in both of those situations, the cheater came out on top.

it is ridiculous to say the ball wasn't going in.

7/2/2010 7:11:41 PM

It is ridiculous, and almost comically improbable.

But you can't prove it was going in, so you can't give a goal.

7/2/2010 7:12:31 PM

i guess it is possible that a meteorite hits the ball before it crosses the line. but we shouldn't have to take meteorites into account when talking about soccer.

7/2/2010 7:14:09 PM

And a referee shouldn't make decisions he can't be certain about.

7/2/2010 7:15:22 PM

are we really suggesting that the referee be given the discretion to decide what would be and what would not be a goal?

7/2/2010 7:15:41 PM

they already have that discretion, i.e. the england vs germany game

7/2/2010 7:25:38 PM

That's not the same decision and you know it.

Hate the rule all you want, but you can't argue with its logic.

7/2/2010 7:29:55 PM

on a clear cut goal, obvious to everyone who is watching, it shouldn't be a pk, it should be a goal. it takes no discretion or anything to know that that play was a goal if it wasn't for the handball. taking it as a pk is just dumb, and i hate the rule. im not gonna argue anymore though, i don't even really care about ghana. i just hate to see a game end on such unsportsmanlike conduct and cheating.

7/2/2010 7:32:45 PM

the funny thing is, if an NBA player fouls a bad free throw shooter who has a wide open layup opportunity, it's a heads up play. if an NFL cornerback tackles a wide open WR who has a game winning touchdown opportunity, it's a heads up play. yet Suarez takes the ultimate sacrifice to afford his team one last-ditch chance to stay alive, and he's a cheater and a crook. yep.


i mean, jesus. if you think the refs have been bad so far, just give them the discretion to decide what should and what should not be considered a goal. hell, don't even keep score, just make each team go out and play, and let the ref determine a winner at the end of the game based on his judgment.


i personally hate watching suarez flop and look to the official for fouls, but i can't hate on that handball. he did what he had to do to keep his team alive.

[Edited on July 2, 2010 at 7:37 PM. Reason : ]

7/2/2010 7:34:53 PM

Quote :

"on a clear cut goal, obvious to everyone who is watching"

What's clear cut? It didn't cross the line. It's not a goal. The chance of it not crossing sans handball being 18,000,000,000,000 to 1 doesn't change the fact that it didn't go in, and the only clear cut thing in that situation is that you can't score a goal if the ball doesn't go in.

The only thing that should be obvious to everyone watching is that no one truly knows what's going to happen next.

7/2/2010 7:45:30 PM

speaking of being like basketball, offsides rule is like not counting dunks. hockeys offsides is at least decent. it doesnt allow the defense to "put" people offsides.

7/2/2010 8:09:20 PM

There are circumstances where the defense can legally induce an offside call in hockey.

Just sayin'.

7/2/2010 8:11:29 PM

i dvr'd both games today and just finished watching the last one and just wanted to say how stupid john harkes is for saying this about the suarez handball

Quote :

"what is he thinking?"

I bet he's thinking that he just won the game for his team you stupid fuck Harkes. Now get off the tv and quit ruining these games with your babble.

7/2/2010 8:18:26 PM

I'll tell you what he wasn't thinking: I should bang Eric Wynalda's wife.

7/2/2010 8:20:44 PM

to me it look like he hit it with his hands which were directly in front of his face, so i dont know why he didnt just head it out unless he thought he was over the goalline to me

7/2/2010 8:51:33 PM

you're wrong

7/2/2010 9:03:10 PM

you should prob look again

7/2/2010 9:04:42 PM

he clearly jumps to the right and reaches up and out past his head

7/2/2010 9:26:57 PM

Just finished watching the 2 games after avoiding hearing any info all day and wow 2 amazing games today. I was expecting these two to be snore fests while I awaited the Germany/Argentina game tomorrow, but I dont know that its gonna have anything on both the games today. Great examples of not giving up and fighting till the end. Sucks for Ghana I can't even begin to imagine how the country and players must feel especially Gyan.

7/2/2010 10:09:06 PM

lol to all you people who rail on Spain and everybody else for diving and cheating but are jumping all yourselves to defend Suarez and his intentional hand ball. Who cares if he got a red and the right "punishment" for it, it's still cheating and not in the right spirit of the game and certainly not good sportsmanship. If a player dives and gets a yellow for it, we don't just shrug our shoulders and say well since he was caught, he's not a cheater.

Was it savvy? Sure. Would I be glad if I was from Uruguay? I guess I'd be glad to be in the semifinals, regardless of how we got there. But all you neutral fans who want to complain about diving ruining the game, how the hell is prospering from an intentional hand ball good for the sport?

so basically I agree with McWinger03 - good for Suarez and Uruguay, they miraculously escaped what should have been a loss by using the laws of the game (that were designed to work against them) to their advantage. But something is flawed when a team can profit off of something like that.

Quote :

"are we really suggesting that the referee be given the discretion to decide what would be and what would not be a goal?"

In giving a red card for a hand ball, the referee's already used his discretion to decide on if it was headed for goal. So what's so difficult about saying, "When the ball is stopped by your hand on an obvious goal scoring opportunity, the goal will be awarded."

[Edited on July 2, 2010 at 11:13 PM. Reason : .]

7/2/2010 11:11:48 PM

Quote :

"lol to all you people who rail on Spain and everybody else for diving and cheating but are jumping all yourselves to defend Suarez and his intentional hand ball. Who cares if he got a red and the right "punishment" for it, it's still cheating and not in the right spirit of the game and certainly not good sportsmanship."

Diving is an attempt to deceive the referee. What Suarez did was not deception, he simply decided to break the rules in a last ditch effort to win. He and his team were properly penalized so I don't see where the controversy is. Basically what all this boils down to is people being butthurt because Ghana is incapable of converting pks.

Personally I think it's karma since 190% of Ghana's goals in the world cup come from pks.

7/2/2010 11:20:10 PM

Success from intentionally breaking the rules is a thing to be congratulated for? I don't get that.

7/2/2010 11:23:28 PM

i thought the handball was brillant

7/2/2010 11:25:11 PM

is a handball actually cheating? i thought it was just a foul..

Quote :

"A direct free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following three offences: • holds an opponent • spits at an opponent • handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)"

nah, not cheating...ive pondered, and i think i wouldve done the same thing in his position at the time of the game. would i dive in the middle of the field or in the box to try and dupe the ref into something for my teams favor? nope. never have, never will


i cant see how you can compare diving and this incident, two completely different things.

[Edited on July 2, 2010 at 11:31 PM. Reason : f]

7/2/2010 11:26:49 PM

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cheating

Cheating, as in "to violate rules deliberately."

7/2/2010 11:31:34 PM

sorry, i read through fifas rule book. they didnt tell me it was cheating so i dont see the problem


this has happened like once in the world cup in this type of situation. you act like if we dont stop this from becoming an outbreak its going to happen every single game



while i dont agree with a lot of things fifa does and has set, i like that this can still happen. otherwise we might as well chop everyones arms off and just do kick-ins from the sideline instead of throw ins to make this completely a no hands sport

[Edited on July 2, 2010 at 11:37 PM. Reason : cup]

7/2/2010 11:32:13 PM

Not sure what you're arguing. And this isn't to rail on Suarez like everybody else did with Henry... he made the right call (obviously) and gave his team a chance.

My point is, I can't believe everybody rallying around this guy like he's some kind of hero, when his team is only advancing because he purposely broke the rules of the game. I guess winning by any means necessary is the only thing people care about.... unless it's diving.

^ oh, I've always thought deliberate hand balls should result in a goal. Doesn't make sense to give the defense another chance to stop the ball when they already had to do it illegally.

[Edited on July 2, 2010 at 11:37 PM. Reason : .]

7/2/2010 11:35:34 PM

nah. its too arbitrary, like vinylbandit was saying earlier that opens a whole pandoras box of what the ref is allowed to award and not award. what if someone deliberately handballs 25 yards away with no keeper in the box...how is anyone to know if it were gonna go into the goal

[Edited on July 2, 2010 at 11:39 PM. Reason : i guess pandoras box works there :/]

7/2/2010 11:38:53 PM

they'd get a yellow card because it wasn't an "obvious goal scoring opportunity" which distance to goal is one of the factors


all of you are acting like a referee doesn't already make a judgment call with the red card decision

7/2/2010 11:39:49 PM

if the ball is going towards goal and is deliberately handballed then that to me is stopping a clear goal scoring chance...which is an automatic red

7/2/2010 11:42:09 PM

I'm not sure your scenario is even realistic

I don't think I've ever seen a hand ball red card offense outside of the box (that wasn't the goalie coming out of the box)


and you can just add into the rule, the intentional hand ball has to occur inside the penalty area to award the goal. Or fuck it, just make it so it has to occur in the goal box for it to be a goal... because surely if a defender's using his hands to stop the ball 6 yards from goal and the referee deems it an obvious goal scoring opportunity, then it was headed for goal.

[Edited on July 2, 2010 at 11:48 PM. Reason : The rule needs tweaking, in my opinion.]

7/2/2010 11:44:22 PM

yeah thats about as likely to happen as this is in the world cup...it rarely happens and you are making it out to be a problem like diving is...i dont get that


people hate on diving cause it happens probably 5-10 times a game...hand ball on the line has happened twice in this world cup? with only this once in prob the history of the cup being so dramatic

[Edited on July 2, 2010 at 11:49 PM. Reason : not using maradona as another dramatic since that was a bit different]

7/2/2010 11:47:21 PM

Quote :

"My point is, I can't believe everybody rallying around this guy like he's some kind of hero, when his team is only advancing because he purposely broke the rules of the game."

It's because people who think his team advanced 'only because he purposely broke the rules' are idiots, as are the people comparing his handball to diving.

Quote :

"oh, I've always thought deliberate hand balls should result in a goal. Doesn't make sense to give the defense another chance to stop the ball when they already had to do it illegally."

Well if you're going to award a goal for a deliberate hand ball then take away the red card penalty. If your team can't score a point from a pk and then against a team with 10 men then you deserve to lose anyway.

[Edited on July 2, 2010 at 11:52 PM. Reason : .]

7/2/2010 11:49:37 PM

no I'm not making it into a big deal, but we've already had it happen twice in this World Cup. Honestly, I don't remember much of '06 after we got knocked out so I can't say, but it fucking happened to us in '02 but wasn't called

clearing the ball off the line with your hand should result in a goal. period. it's bullshit that you have to attempt a 2nd time to score when you've obviously already scored. and this isn't knee jerk reaction, I've had this opinion for a while. Actually, it was when I was reffing a game and the Ghana situation happened to a team and I've just always thought that was a bullshit rule


^ interesting. so they still had a chance to come back from 2-1 in the 120th minute if he doesn't use his hands? Forlan's had a good tourney, but damn

[Edited on July 2, 2010 at 11:52 PM. Reason : .]

7/2/2010 11:50:49 PM

thank the hands of suarez that someone finally agrees with me about this.


what happened in the game today was such a rare occurrence in a game, but if they changed so a ball with a clear path to goal (no goalie in the way) is stopped by a player on the goal line deliberately, it would be a red card and goal instead of a pk. it's a pretty clear decision for the referee and i don't think it would change the game much.

7/2/2010 11:51:36 PM

idk..im fine with it being a pk. you are *allowed to use your hands to stop the ball and if you deem it necessary to stop a goal and get yourself kicked out of the game and award a pk, then do so at your own risk...and if its worthy enough of saving a goal and givin yourself a small chance at staying in the game, then that seems pretty crazy and awesome to me. i doubt we ever see another handball on the line with that little time left in the rest of our lives in the world cup


*(well you arent allowed, but its not like you get your arms shot off by using them)

[Edited on July 2, 2010 at 11:53 PM. Reason : f]

7/2/2010 11:52:42 PM

Quote :

"Well if you're going to award a goal for a deliberate hand ball then take away the red card penalty. If your team can't score a point from a pk and then against a team with 10 men then you deserve to lose anyway."

fine with me, I'll take the automatic goal over playing against 10 men anytime

7/2/2010 11:54:49 PM

^ i like the idea, but i also think it opens up even more "judgment" on the part of a referee who, by himself, is already a little taxed. What if looks like its going to hit the post? What if his angle is bad and what looks obvious to the at-home viewer looks like its going wide or high to him.

Gyan should have just put the game away.

Nothing in the wide world of sports compares to the pressure that he was under when he kicked that though. I've come to appreciate this aspect of futbol over all "american" sports.

7/3/2010 12:05:29 AM

Quote :

"i like the idea, but i also think it opens up even more "judgment" on the part of a referee who, by himself, is already a little taxed. What if looks like its going to hit the post? What if his angle is bad and what looks obvious to the at-home viewer looks like its going wide or high to him."

fair enough. Maybe it would make the defender think twice about using his hands if he knew it would be pointless to do so.

Quote :

"Gyan should have just put the game away."

no argument there


I can't imagine how I'd feel right now if that had been the US.

7/3/2010 12:13:09 AM

why not a deliberate hand ball within the mouth of the goal and occuring on the end line, can at the discretion of the referee be awarded as a goal. no matter what, the redcard should be handed out and the PK should occur if the goal wasn't awarded.

it is really in my opinion the most egregious foul that a player can commit (primarily because the rules as written do not allow the goal to be awarded). the defense is already at a sufficient enough advantage in the sport.

Quote :

"Cheating, as in "to violate rules deliberately."

-aimoriss

just a note you can't cheat if the rule you are violating already includes the word deliberately



[Edited on July 3, 2010 at 12:28 AM. Reason : ]

7/3/2010 12:27:04 AM