because no one reads the last post on a page


why not a deliberate hand ball within the mouth of the goal and occuring on the end line, can at the discretion of the referee be awarded as a goal. no matter what, the redcard should be handed out and the PK should occur if the goal wasn't awarded.

it is really in my opinion the most egregious foul that a player can commit (primarily because the rules as written do not allow the goal to be awarded). the defense is already at a sufficient enough advantage in the sport.

Quote :

"Cheating, as in "to violate rules deliberately."

-aimoriss
just a note you can't cheat if the rule you are violating already includes the word deliberately

7/3/2010 12:39:32 AM

I'm honestly quite surprised that this has brought up such a heated debate. I suppose it's worth discussing, but I really don't see it as being any worse than the last defender (or goalie) taking out a player who has an obvious goal scoring opportunity. In this case, Suarez made an opportunity that had a 99% chance of going in (I really can't tell if he could have gotten his head on that or not before crossing the line) and he reduced it to like an 85% chance of going in by sacrificing a PK and the red card. As a fan, I say, "hey, take that chance and make them earn it." Because, as vinylbandit said earlier, it ain't a goal until it's a goal.

And I don't think it's analogous to diving at all. One is an attempt at deceit and trickery, while the other is fully owning up to the consequences. I hate Suarez for diving, but if he's willing to be red-carded, lose his opportunity at taking a PK, and additionally sit out the next game, all the while understanding that Gyan could convert that PK anyway, then I say let him. I can appreciate a player willing to sacrifice himself (quite literally) for the team much more than I can a player who dives and resorts to deception in order to convince the ref call the game in that players favor. And speaking of diving, I would like to see a replay of the foul that was called that set up that crazy end, because at first glance, I thought it was a dive, but I haven't seen it since that point.

7/3/2010 12:50:18 AM

"hey, take that chance and make them earn it"

except they already have earned it by putting the ball on goal. its similar to goaltending in basketball or this gem from the hockey world:

Quote :

"63.6 Awarded Goal - In the event that the goal post is displaced, either deliberately or accidentally, by a defending player, prior to the puck crossing the goal line between the normal position of the goalposts, the Referee may award a goal. In order to award a goal in this situation, the goal post must have been displaced by the actions a defending player, the puck must have been shot (or the player must be in the act of shooting) at the goal prior to the goal post being displaced, and it must be determined that the puck would have entered the net between the normal position of the goal posts. When the goal post has been displaced deliberately by the defending team when their goalkeeper has been removed for an extra attacker thereby preventing an impending goal by the attacking team, the Referee shall award a goal to the attacking team. The goal frame is considered to be displaced if either or both goal pegs are no longer in their respective holes in the ice, or the net has come completely off one or both pegs, prior to or as the puck enters the goal."

7/3/2010 1:08:25 AM

^^im pretty sure it was a dive too. i didnt get to see a replay either, but i swear he went to the ground without contact. i made a point earlier that none of that shit in the box shouldve been happening in the first place

7/3/2010 1:14:32 AM

Quote :

"I hate Suarez for diving, but if he's willing to be red-carded, lose his opportunity at taking a PK, and additionally sit out the next game, all the while understanding that Gyan could convert that PK anyway, then I say let him. "

you and a bunch of others are making Suarez some kind of martyr when really he did the only rational thing. if he doesn't handball it, he's going home, so in reality he MUST handball it. its a shame though that this sort of logical inconsistency isn't appropriately handled by the rules of "the beautiful game"

7/3/2010 1:22:21 AM

yes. it was rational. there's nothing logically inconsistent about it. if you deny the opposition an obvious goal scoring opportunity, then you get a red-card, miss the next game, and the attacking team is awarded a PK. that's the rule, every time. it's quite consistent, actually. it's the same for a 1v1 penalty where the goalie deliberately takes out an attacking defender facing an open net. it would be the same if suarez would have been on the 6 yard box and that ball "looked" destined for goal. should the team be awarded a goal in those scenario as well? where do you draw the line? is this instance different because it was on the goal line rather than 3 feet in front of goal? just because the situation was more dramatic doesn't necessarily require a different set of rules based on the gravity of the situation.

i don't know why people are comparing it to goaltending. the more obvious and consistent comparison would be to compare it to a goalie or defender deliberately tackling a player from behind facing an open net. in all of those scenarios, a player is deliberately breaking the rule. you can argue all day as to whether or not it is ethical, but at the very least, the punishment is consistent throughout.

[Edited on July 3, 2010 at 1:45 AM. Reason : ]

7/3/2010 1:42:31 AM

I followed every game when I was in Puerto Rico... this cup has been outstanding (with the exception being our tough loss to Ghana). I also loved the intensity of the fans in the Newark airport, definitely more intense than any fans I've seen throughout the states.

7/3/2010 1:45:52 AM

i see it as goaltending because the ball is going into the basket/goal unopposed, and someone illegally denies it. taking someone down is similar, but they haven't shot it yet, so there is a chance they can shoot it off the frame or slip or something. in the case of this shot, it was away, and in the center of the goal. so much like a basketball going in, it was definitely going in.

7/3/2010 1:47:40 AM

then draw the line


the second you introduce the word "chance" the argument becomes shaky

[Edited on July 3, 2010 at 1:51 AM. Reason : ]

7/3/2010 1:48:57 AM

and for the record. the rule in basketball has nothing to do with whether or not the ball was "going in." they have a specific rule so as to remove judgement.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFllUxvphNA

if someone can imbed. looks like a dive to me, but i never saw the whole thing.

[Edited on July 3, 2010 at 1:57 AM. Reason : ]

7/3/2010 1:49:54 AM

I already have. In my first post on this page.

And it's logically inconsistent because rules are designed in all sports to prevent one team from having an un intended advantage over the other. In this instance Ghana was penalized by the result of the play

I also am enjoying you talking about drawing lines in the most subjectively officiated sport that is played.

[Edited on July 3, 2010 at 1:56 AM. Reason : Z]

7/3/2010 1:55:08 AM

^uh huh. so, if it's 2 inches in front of the line, according to your suggestion, a goal should not be allowed? what if it's 6 inches? 1 foot? 10 yards?


every sport is subjective. you can call a hold on every play in football, you can call a foul on every play in basketball. what's a ball and what's a strike in baseball? soccer is no different. you seem to be arguing for MORE inconsistency by altering rules to accommodate subjective scenarios.

[Edited on July 3, 2010 at 2:09 AM. Reason : ]

7/3/2010 2:00:18 AM

can we just end the argument and say that if ghana hits the PK, its a moot point

i mean jesus i could hit a PK

7/3/2010 4:15:09 AM

Argentina-Germany, it's gonna be a war

7/3/2010 9:34:21 AM

Quote :

"its a shame though that this sort of logical inconsistency isn't appropriately handled by the rules of "the beautiful game""

It is appropriately handled though, you get a red card and give up a pk. That means that the other team is 95% going to score anyway, and you have to sit out the rest of the current game and the next game.

7/3/2010 9:37:06 AM

i'm interested in seeing the play of mezut ozil, who, i must admit, has improved a good bit this tournament.

7/3/2010 9:43:49 AM

Die Mannschaf

7/3/2010 9:51:25 AM

Well damn... that was quick.

7/3/2010 10:07:19 AM

that was klose

7/3/2010 10:24:55 AM

Lol all 4 of you were offsides why such complaints?

7/3/2010 10:38:00 AM

There was a montage of Argentina facepalms just now on univision. Wish I had been recording it.

7/3/2010 10:43:29 AM

heinze is such a douche

7/3/2010 10:45:55 AM

to go back to this for a second

Quote :

"^uh huh. so, if it's 2 inches in front of the line, according to your suggestion, a goal should not be allowed? what if it's 6 inches? 1 foot? 10 yards?"

I already suggested that you use the the goal area for the rule.



as for the Argentina game, what the fuck was Romero thinking? Did he really expect the cross to go over those two... he's bending over like he's going to be able to catch it at his feet. Also, could somebody fill me in on why the fuck Leonardo Dicaprio was wearing a west virginia hat? And do you think he was talking to people in his Blood Diamond accent

[Edited on July 3, 2010 at 10:59 AM. Reason : leo]

7/3/2010 10:55:42 AM

Quote :

"SPAIN SPAIN SPAIN"

Vive la Inquisición, bitches.

7/3/2010 10:59:45 AM

^^yeah, but don't you think that would be an utterly useless rule? if you break it down to the actual goal line, then suarez would just take a half step forward in that same situation to avoid the "automatic goal". defenders in that situation wouldn't stand on the line, they would just stand directly in front of it. and that's not to mention the difficulty in judging whether or not a ball is on the goal line 6 or 7 feet in the air.



and if i were leo decaprio, i would only use that blood diamond accent when in south africa.

[Edited on July 3, 2010 at 11:02 AM. Reason : ]

7/3/2010 11:00:03 AM

half a step is 6 yards?

7/3/2010 11:01:38 AM

sorry. i thought you meant goal line. not the 6 yard box. i'm probably confusing your suggestion with somebody else. but i'll just have to disagree with you if you think that the 6 yard box is when the ref can "decide" what would and what would not be a goal.

7/3/2010 11:04:25 AM

I'm so glad Di Maria went to Real instead of City so I don't have to hate him.

7/3/2010 11:07:27 AM

mascherano with his usual dirty tackling

lol in the face

[Edited on July 3, 2010 at 11:11 AM. Reason : f]

7/3/2010 11:08:56 AM

gettin tired of watching higuain complain to the linesman

7/3/2010 11:13:58 AM

LOL

7/3/2010 11:17:09 AM

7/3/2010 11:18:16 AM

^^Who can make the ball explode?

7/3/2010 11:23:22 AM

wow klose nearly pulled a yakubu!! haha lucky ass

7/3/2010 11:24:47 AM

KLOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

7/3/2010 11:24:55 AM

silvertina pwnt .. stay home

7/3/2010 11:25:07 AM

wait nevermind i thought the ball went wide at first but he trapped it up to himself

i hope argentina self destruct

[Edited on July 3, 2010 at 11:29 AM. Reason : f]

7/3/2010 11:25:24 AM

damn. i'm gonna go ahead and assume that argentina is gonna start playing dirty now. here come the yellow cards

7/3/2010 11:29:33 AM

wow what a great goal

who was on the ball? podolski??

haha wow that was schweinsteiger

[Edited on July 3, 2010 at 11:31 AM. Reason : f]

7/3/2010 11:30:56 AM

wow sick goal

7/3/2010 11:31:10 AM

The wheels are falling off. At least Maradona will keep his clothes on.

7/3/2010 11:31:24 AM

Hey Maradona, you nervoushh?



probably wouldve heleped to have some leadership out there like zanetti or a holding midfielder who i think is better than mascherano in cambiasso...oh wait, the mastermind that is maradona dropped them for whatever reason

[Edited on July 3, 2010 at 11:34 AM. Reason : f]

7/3/2010 11:32:05 AM

if you had told me two weeks ago that uruguay would be the south american team to go the furthest in this world cup, i would have slapped you square in the mouth.

7/3/2010 11:33:30 AM

Assuming Spain handles Paraguay which they should easily that Germany Spain game is so inticing and likely the winner wins the cup

7/3/2010 11:34:55 AM

i think 2 weeks ago a lot of people still didnt believe argentina would make it that far. im pretty sure brazil is the real surprise though

well maybe not a lot. i was just waiting for them to play someone good.

[Edited on July 3, 2010 at 11:36 AM. Reason : f]

7/3/2010 11:35:35 AM

Yeah, I was waiting to see if Maradona could make the decisions in tight games.

7/3/2010 11:36:08 AM

i originally thought that the winner of this game (argentina-germany) would meet the winner of brazil-holland. of course, i thought (and i was hoping) it would be argentina and brazil. ohhhh welllll.

7/3/2010 11:36:24 AM

as far as the Uruguay controversy (since I wasn't online to join in the lovely debate), I'm with Suarez. It's part of the game and I would have done the exact same thing; the only time it annoys me is a game like the 2002 Germany - US game where it didn't get called.

Heck, I still think we should have possibly purposely taken out Gyan in extra time to stop that goal.

7/3/2010 11:36:45 AM

odds on mascherano getting sent off? 5-1?

where is god at? im surprised to not see any mannschaft stroking in here

[Edited on July 3, 2010 at 11:39 AM. Reason : f]

7/3/2010 11:36:52 AM

^he and heinze are my bet to get a stupid red card

7/3/2010 11:38:32 AM