Well, at least we have Horner coming back next year. He'll probably contend for a Naismith award next season. And we all know that Horner gets plenty of consistent playing time.

page one hundred twenty-four

[Edited on April 7, 2009 at 5:22 PM. Reason : 124!]

4/7/2009 5:21:14 PM

Quote :

"what we should be worrying about is Larry Harris taking a job at Zona. Miller has already contacted harris about it"

larry harris has turned sean miller's advances of luring him away to Zona

4/7/2009 5:23:36 PM

Quote :

"^^^Not sure how that applies here. The only players I remember him doing that to were Cam Bennerman and Tim Wells. Herb didn't play underclassmen period unless they were just great players like Hodge."

yeah, so the "how are they supposed to develop" argument is stupid to even bring up.

actually, herb only wanted to play dom mejia and redshirt everybody else in cam's class.

4/7/2009 5:24:31 PM

SEAN

MILLER'S

ADVANCES

4/7/2009 5:27:03 PM

Quote :

"And how the fuck are our players ever going to develop into anything consistent when they are shuffled in and out of the lineup so much and often ride the bench for weeks ala Julius Mays?"

There are a lot of coaches who don't give freshmen a lot of minutes, particularly if they're not super-talented. I mean, Julius Mays averaged twice as many mpg as Fells and McCauley did their freshman year (and more than BC). Maybe that's why they didn't have a better senior season?



[Edited on April 7, 2009 at 5:36 PM. Reason : VV I'll give you that. Mays should have taken some of Degand's minutes.]

4/7/2009 5:29:57 PM

Maybe it's becasue Mays is a freshman and it was the second half of the ACC season and we had just gone to a bigger lineup which means less minutes for guards.

4/7/2009 5:31:11 PM

Maybe so, but for Mays to have substantial playing time and perform just as well (I personally think better than) Degand, only to be benched for weeks was a little strange. I'm not sure that is the best way to work freshman into the system, but time will tell. And boy Ohboyeee do we have time.

^ I thought Mays was spelling Javi at the point guard position when he played.. so it shouldn't have made a difference going to the big rotation.. could be wrong though, the first half of the season was fuzzy as I tried to block most of it out. Actually, I'm still working on blocking out the entire season.

[Edited on April 7, 2009 at 5:39 PM. Reason : []

4/7/2009 5:33:10 PM

i defended sid for a lot, but playing degand over mays for so long is something sid should be given hell about

4/7/2009 5:38:21 PM

you don't want a pg to have to learn on the job, like javi had to. next year mays should be more comfortable with the system and will understand more about the college game. he picked up a lot of careless touch fouls as a freshman and that should improve as he figures out what he can and can't get away with in the college game.

[Edited on April 7, 2009 at 5:43 PM. Reason : .]

4/7/2009 5:42:39 PM

Quote :

"you don't want a pg to have to learn on the job"

Unless the player you are playing in front of him (Degand) isn't as good as the player learning on the job, right?

4/7/2009 5:45:41 PM

IN ON PAGE 124

4/7/2009 6:32:23 PM

Quote :

"i defended sid for a lot, but playing degand over mays for so long is something sid should be given hell about"

same here... love sid, but damn his substitution patterns leave A LOT to be desired

4/7/2009 6:36:26 PM

Why must NC State be the perennial bitch of tobacco road?

4/7/2009 6:42:40 PM

^well, for one, two of the most prestigious basketball programs in the country are on tobacco road as well.

[Edited on April 7, 2009 at 7:33 PM. Reason : V No but that has little to to do with tobacco road]

4/7/2009 7:06:05 PM

^ yeah, but that has nothing to do with 10th, 12th, 10th place finishes in the ACC during Lowe's tenure, now does it?

4/7/2009 7:07:41 PM

Quote :

"I don't ever recall anyone saying a bad thing about TOB, and it would be stupid to do so last year during our 2-6 stretch when half the team was injured."

I applaud the support for TOB, but a very vocal minority was calling for TOB's head in the 1st half of the season. That included people that dismissed the "injuries explanation" as either a weak excuse, poor planning, and/or deficiencies in recruiting. I hope said people now recognize how profoundly ignorant they were.

Quote :

"And how the fuck are our players ever going to develop into anything consistent when they are shuffled in and out of the lineup so much and often ride the bench for weeks ala Julius Mays?"

Look, I understand everyone's frustration with the constant shuffle, but IMHO the lineup changes were NOT the main reason for the poor W/L record. They were instead due to State's lack of talent either in the post or at the point.[*Note - You are all welcome to disagree with me on that, and no I do NOT want to debate this point]

As a result, Lowe had no choice but to "encourage competition." He did that by saying very early on that every minute of playing time is open to whomever is willing to work for it. Obviously the constant lineup shuffles had drawbacks, mainly when it came to consistency. However, by the end of the year Lowe's tinkering with the lineup yielded several positives:

1) Javi had settled into the PG role, becoming one of our leading scorers.
2) CJ Williams stepped up and became an important role player (6th man) down the stretch.
3) Tracy Smith had the opportunity to emerge as the go-to post threat (as opposed to sticking with the returning starter and senior leader (McCauley) who simply wasn't getting it done offensively)
4) The younger players gradually contributed more and more of the offense as the season went on, instead of relying solely on the talented yet dreadfully inconsistent Big 3 (Fells, McCauley, Costner)
5) Despite the obvious deficiencies on defense, the offense actually came together quite nicely as the season progressed. State became one of the most efficient offenses in the ACC (despite still being turnover prone )

[Edited on April 7, 2009 at 8:21 PM. Reason : )]

4/7/2009 8:21:26 PM

TRUTH!

4/7/2009 8:31:19 PM

Quote :

"I mean, Julius Mays averaged twice as many mpg as Fells and McCauley did their freshman year (and more than BC)."

And Mays played on a 10th place ACC team and Fells/Ben were on a fourth place team. Mays wouldn't have seen the court all year for that team. Different scenarios.

4/7/2009 10:25:44 PM

hey, another book by Erios.

4/8/2009 2:22:34 AM

Quote :

"well, for one, two of the most prestigious basketball programs in the country are on tobacco road as well. "

we used to be one of those 2 damnit!

4/8/2009 4:01:02 AM

FACT: Back in the days of saved by the bell season 2 we were relevant, however, we stopped being relevant before the start of season 3. /FACT

4/8/2009 4:45:45 AM

^^^ dude get the fuck over yourself. We get it. You don't like to read... which makes sense give the quality of your posts

4/8/2009 12:38:23 PM

simonn knows more basketball than you do. Don't hate. Although I don't agree with him all the time, he is very knowledgeable.

We just don't want to read the books you post every 2-3 pages.....

4/8/2009 1:24:55 PM

I'll translate the essays Cedric Simmons style from here on out.

Latest one:

Sidney Lowe good. Herb Sendek recruits bad. OhBoyee troll.

4/8/2009 1:29:34 PM

I'll translate the essays Cedric Simmons style from here on out.

Latest EVERY one:

Sidney Lowe good. Herb Sendek recruits bad. OhBoyee troll.

4/8/2009 2:49:53 PM

Quote :

"simonn knows more basketball than you do. Don't hate. Although I don't agree with him all the time, he is very knowledgeable."

That's fair. I don't consider myself an expert at all in bball FTR. Threw that last line in 'cuz I was ticked off...

Quote :

"We just don't want to read the books you post every 2-3 pages....."

See, this is what I have a problem with. So you you guys don't like reading books eh? Well then don't ask a freakin' question if you don't want to hear the answer. I realize it was OhBoyeee's who "asked" why on earth Sid shuffled his lineup frequently, but for pete sake this is a message board. You ought to be happy that SOMEBODY is trying to have a civil, rational, thoughful discussion about a very touchy subject like this.

::rereads my "long" post::

Guys, it took me ONE FREAKIN' MINUTE to read the entirety of my post. If you can't stomach 60 damn seconds then I'd really l've to know how the hell you managed to get through kindergarten, much less college.

And FTR, I wouldn't get nearly as worked up if you guys would JUST RESPOND TO THE FUCKING POST INSTEAD OF WHINING ABOUT HOW DAMN LONG IT IS. Especially since I'm usually responding to your reasons for criticizing Lowe in the 1st place. B/c until you do it sure as hell looks like your avoiding the subject on account of someone calling you out on your bullshit argument(s).

In any case... I reitterate... get the fuck over yourselves.

4/10/2009 6:02:57 PM

Translated:

Me like words. You kindergartner.

[Edited on April 10, 2009 at 6:10 PM. Reason : this translation was a cross between Ced and Cookie Monster apparently]

4/10/2009 6:10:04 PM

^^i like to read

your posts are well thought out and you always bring up good points. some people just love to argue and you just gotta let them be sometimes.

4/10/2009 6:11:13 PM

DAMN YOUR POSTS ARE LONG

4/10/2009 6:58:12 PM

they're not only long, they are ALL THE FUCKING SAME. STOP DOING THAT.

4/10/2009 7:29:05 PM

this whole thread is the same, dawg. give him a break. at least he's more rational than most people in here.

4/10/2009 7:36:38 PM

at least those long posts offer some substance, as opposed to "ALL THE FUCKING SAME" (& more emotional/irrational) posts they're in response to.

4/10/2009 10:27:21 PM

Hey Erios, can you please author a long post with bolds and italics to convince me that Sidney Lowe is the answer to our all our problems and how stupid I am for judging his credibility after we've been the worst program in the ACC over his 3 year tenure here? Thanks in advance.

4/11/2009 2:33:37 PM

^Damn, you've been busy today. Did you have a bad Good Friday?

4/11/2009 8:53:24 PM

No Bullet, just decades of frustration building up and spilling over. Are you a sophomore or a junior at state? I'm curious to how much you've been exposed with regards to our athletics performance.

4/11/2009 8:55:49 PM

does it matter what year you're in if you've been a state fan since birth?

4/11/2009 11:34:22 PM

Hey OhBoyee, can you please post something relevant to the conversation that will convince me that Sidney Lowe is the worst coach ever and how stupid I am for not constantly throwing him under the bus while ignoring numerous mitigating factors that at least partially explain the team's struggles in his 1st 3 years as coach? Thanks in advance.

See, I can be an obnoxious little shit too.

Seriously, I do hope that you've noticed that packboozie (not exactly on the Lowe bandwagon) and I (who defends him constantly) actually agree that Lowe should get his 4th year. I also agree with him in that I think if Lowe turns in another subpar performance (i.e. as bad or worse) next year, then he should be canned. All I'm doing is reacting to people whom are prematurely rushing to judgment.

I'm not a Lowe homer. Stop acting like I am.

4/12/2009 8:49:25 AM

goddamn, epic pwn

4/12/2009 12:10:46 PM

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/ncsu/story/5007048/

Lowe looking for improved Pack in the fall. Says we are not where he wants us to be after three years.

4/23/2009 9:11:38 AM

^ good post...

I agree with every bit of it. Frankly I'd be worried, and pissed off actually, if either Fowler and/or Lowe were pleased with the team's success thusfar. Lowe's a competitor. No way he's happy with how.things have gone.

Also like Fowler saying "the future NEEDS to be bright." Next year will decide Lowe's fate. As much as like him and defend him, no way Sidney survives a 4th consectutive BAD year.

I think he'll do enough to survive, but just in case... anyone know offhand what Sean Miller's buyout is at Arizona?

4/23/2009 11:03:00 AM

I wonder what Fowler considers as "bright". Can they add another tier to the RBC center?

4/23/2009 11:10:55 AM

^^We've done missed our chance to land him.

But I really do think this coming year is make or break for Sidney.

4/23/2009 12:06:33 PM

^i agree

do you think there is any reason to have hope that this coming season is going to be better than last season though?

4/23/2009 12:39:19 PM

^sure. for the sake of hope.

4/23/2009 12:43:05 PM

Quote :

"do you think there is any reason to have hope that this coming season is going to be better than last season though?"

I would say the prospect of having a roster of players sid recruited to play the style he wants to play instead of a nucleus of players recruited to play a completely different style is a very valid reason for some optimism.

4/23/2009 12:46:22 PM

Anyone think Lowe's credibility doesn't deserve to be examined and want to argue about it? I'm trying to get the conversation moved from the recruiting thread.

[Edited on April 23, 2009 at 1:14 PM. Reason : { ]

4/23/2009 1:14:11 PM

^The thing is, I don't think anybody has ever argued that his credibility shouldn't be examined. Most argue that he shouldn't be thrown under the bus just yet.

[Edited on April 23, 2009 at 1:22 PM. Reason : ]

4/23/2009 1:21:21 PM

^bingo.

4/23/2009 1:21:52 PM

I've tried to explain that a dozen times. It's not that he doesn't understand, it's just easier to troll that way.

4/23/2009 1:24:27 PM

Next year will be hard to predict, mostly b/c of the potential for the incoming recruiting class to play a substantial number of minutes. It's tough to project how well freshmen will play, even if they're ridiculously talented (ala John Wall).

Main reasons for optimism:

1) You don't absolutely need a typical "big man" to win in the ACC. Duke had Kyle Singler and a goofy 7-footer that didn't contribute much. Clemson got by with a 6'7" center. Shit, Maryland got to the 2nd round of the NCAAs. It's tough, but it can be done.

2) It's all Sid's players. You don't see any of his guys being anywhere near the headcase that either Costner or Fells were.

3) Sid's got his his feet under him now. If you believe he's a good coach that needed time to figure out the college game (like I do), then it's not a stretch to think Lowe will be much better in game, especially with his own guys.

4) "Ball-handlers, my kingdom for a freakin' ball-handler." No I'm not talking about what goes in the UNC men's locker room. I'm talking about guys who can bring the ball upcourt and avoid dribbling off their freakin' legs (which sadly happened A LOT last year). Brown and Wood both look good enough to take care of the damn ball. Nothing has killed us more than TO's lately, so any improvement here would help dramatically.

4/23/2009 1:26:26 PM