Quote :

"George Bush received specific warnings in the weeks before 11 September that an attack inside the United States was being planned by Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda network, US government sources said yesterday. In a top-secret intelligence memo headlined 'Bin Laden determined to strike in the US', the President was told on 6 August that the Saudi-born terrorist hoped to 'bring the fight to America' in retaliation for missile strikes on al-Qaeda camps in Afghanistan in 1998. Bush and his aides, who are facing withering criticism for failing to act on a series of warnings, have previously said intelligence experts had not advised them domestic targets were considered at risk. However, they have admitted they were specifically told that hijacks were being planned. ... And, while administration officials have said repeatedly that intelligence analysts never imagined that terrorists would use planes in a suicide attack, a 1999 report for the National Intelligence Council warned that fanatics loyal to bin Laden might try to hijack a jetliner and fly it into the Pentagon. The memo received by Bush on 6 August contained unconfirmed information passed on by British intelligence in 1998 revealing that al-Qaeda operatives had discussed hijacking a plane to negotiate the release of Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, the Muslim cleric imprisoned in America for his part in a plot to blow up the World Trade Centre in 1993. http://observer.guardian.co.uk/bush/story/0,8224,718311,00.html"

archives of articles:

http://www.falloutshelternews.com/9_11_ODDITIES.html
http://www.wanttoknow.info/911coverup10pg

on 9/11: http://www.uscrusade.com/home.htm

[Edited on February 12, 2004 at 12:34 AM. Reason : ..]

2/12/2004 12:27:43 AM

blah blah blah

how do you feel knowing that people will NEVER take you seriously

that you are basically talking to yourself

that people like steve and yourself are looked upon as rambling idiots who stand on a box and are scorned by EVERYBODY for you obvious lack of wisdom and intellect

2/12/2004 12:37:01 AM

i mean honestly

you're just a fucking joke

2/12/2004 12:38:41 AM

This video clearly shows the explosions going off in the collapse of the South Tower:

http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/collapse%20update/wtc-2_explodes.avi

2/12/2004 12:41:28 AM

nice and clear analysis

you should win a medal you GENIUS

2/12/2004 2:22:39 AM

"It is far more honest to be undeservedly ignored than to be honoured without merit."

---Denis Fonvizin

2/12/2004 10:54:01 AM

ok to me in that video, i dont see any explosive charges going off. i see in the first frame the tower starting to collapse at the top, which is characteristic of severe structural damage. after that the force of the collapsing debris causes the pancake effect. i see nothing that even hints at explosives being used. but then again, i'm not a licensed civil engineer or explosives expert and guess what, you're not either! and i doubt the stooge who made that site is affiliated in any way to an engineering/construction/demolition company.

and once again, you didnt answer 1337's question you ignorant/arrogant shit.

[Edited on February 12, 2004 at 11:00 AM. Reason : .]

2/12/2004 10:59:35 AM

>Salisbury debate seqeunce A
1: Create thread on a conspiracy theory based only incredible evidence from geocities sites.

2: If theory is attacked on its lack of factual or logical basis,
3: Then use apealls to authority (such as quotes from "famous" people) to justify yourself and your case.

4: If people stop posting in thread
5: LOOP TO 1

[Edited on February 12, 2004 at 11:03 AM. Reason : I really don't know how to program. Can you tell? ]

2/12/2004 11:03:15 AM

while(0==0)
{
  repeatMindlessDrivel();
  if (isResponse)
  {
     if (defeatsDrivel)
       dodgeQuestionNResponse();
     ignoreHolesInArgument();
     ignoreEvidence();
   ]
}

2/12/2004 11:20:45 AM

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2/12/2004 11:24:13 AM

"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion."
--Edmund Burke


"The best weapon of a dictatorship is secrecy; the best weapon of a democracy is openness."
--Edvard Teller

"When great changes occur in history, when great principles are involved, as a rule the majority are wrong. The minority are right."
--Eugene V. Debs

[Edited on February 12, 2004 at 12:04 PM. Reason : ..]

2/12/2004 12:02:07 PM

Quote :

""The best weapon of a dictatorship is secrecy; the best weapon of a democracy is openness." --Edvard Teller "

SO THEN ANSWER THE GOD DAMNED QUESTION YOU MORON:


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2/12/2004 12:09:03 PM

"Arbitrary rule has its basis, not in the strength of the state or the chief, but in the moral weakness of the individual, who submits almost without resistance to the domineering power."
--Friedrich Hatzel

"It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
--Giordano Bruno

"The majority is never right. Never, I tell you! That's one of these lies in society that no free and intelligent man can help rebelling against. Who are the people that make up the biggest proportion of the population -- the intelligent ones or the fools?"
--Henrik Ibsen

2/12/2004 12:18:57 PM

1337 b4k4, it is very hard to keep vast amounts of information secret for a long time, especially in an event such as the attacks of 9/11. The truth gets out eventually. These people have tried hard to keep the truth from the masses and they have been successful at keeping the vast majority of people from knowledge of the truth...but some people out there have come accross the truth.


[Edited on February 12, 2004 at 12:25 PM. Reason : ..]

2/12/2004 12:22:27 PM

"Democracies have been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their death."
--James Madison

"The advancement and diffusion of knowledge is the only guardian of true liberty."
--James Madison

"Governments need armies to protect them from their enslaved and oppressed subjects."
--Lev Tolstoy

That last quote is interesting, because it is only a recent phenomenon that the United States has maintained an army in peace time.



[Edited on February 12, 2004 at 12:32 PM. Reason : ..]

2/12/2004 12:28:38 PM

stop quoting dead people.

2/12/2004 12:38:46 PM

"There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things."
--Machiavelli

"The Constitution, in a very significant sense, is not a mechanism for making decisions but preventing them."
--Michael Gilson De Lomos

"Every society honors its live conformists and its dead troublemakers."
--Mignon McLaughlin

"Politicians are always interested in people. Not that this is always a virtue. Fleas are interested in dogs."
--P.J. O’Rourke

2/12/2004 12:42:39 PM

"When the tyrant has disposed of foreign enemies by conquest or treaty, and there is nothing to fear from them, then he is always stirring up some war or other, in order that the people may require a leader."
--Plato

"The more corrupt the state, the numerous the laws."
--Tacitus

"A great many laws in a country, like many physicians, is a sign of malady."
--Voltaire

2/12/2004 12:53:04 PM

Quote :

" That last quote is interesting, because it is only a recent phenomenon that the United States has maintained an army in peace time. "

i dont know whether to fuckin hunt u down and castrate you or what. all nations maintain an army in peacetime. that is so when there is a crisis such as someone possessing WMD or harboring terrorists, the nation is already prepared with soldiers to go into harm's way and protect your sorry, conspiracy theorist ass. and what the fuck is this recent bullshit? since the beginning of time, nations have always maintained an army, it wasnt a set army, more like a militia to be called up in times of war. why dont you do some research on the history of warfare in this world before you go mouthing off about something you have no knowledge of. o wait, nevermind, you already did that with sept. 11!

[Edited on February 12, 2004 at 12:57 PM. Reason : to be more civilized]

2/12/2004 12:54:26 PM

people dont konw how to have a civilized discussion in forums. they just end up calling each other jackasses.

so way to go dude.

2/12/2004 12:56:30 PM

When I say "recent", I don't mean just the last 20-30 years. If I am not mistaken, the U.S. did not have standing armies during peacetime before WWI.

2/12/2004 12:57:05 PM

that's correct, they had militias which would be called up in time of war. they werent set and standing but armies were still existent.

[Edited on February 12, 2004 at 1:00 PM. Reason : .]

2/12/2004 1:00:15 PM

Quote :

", it is very hard to keep vast amounts of information secret for a long time, especially in an event such as the attacks of 9/11. The truth gets out eventually. These people have tried hard to keep the truth from the masses and they have been successful at keeping the vast majority of people from knowledge of the truth...but some people out there have come accross the truth. "

That is not an acceptable answer. These dissenters have been allowed to run free for 3 years. Continuously. Their webpages have been allowed to exist and they have radio shows and lawsuits. To top it all off, the conspiraacy seems to leave blatently obvious clues against itself. That's not something a multinational conspiracy does.

I want an acceptable answer. I want to know why you and alex jones and all these other conspiracy theorists are still alive despite years of expounding the "truth". I want to know why these people are so sloppy they can't seem to do something as simple as destroy a building without giving themselves away to average joe blow. I want to know why these sites are still running despite the fac tthat all it takes is a bit of work to bring them down.

WHY DID THEY FAIL CONSPIRACIES 101?

2/12/2004 1:28:01 PM

Look, man, I'm not inside these guys' heads, so I don't know what exactly they are thinking. What I do know is that the government was complicit in 9/11 and the official story is not the truth. That is a fact. They have succeeded in keeping the truth away from most people by their control over the media. But they can't keep all the truth secret....some of it will get out.

The elite probably think it is ok if only a small portion of the population comes to know the truth. This is a numbers game. A small minority of people can't cause a revolution or overthrow the government...it takes a sizeable number of people. The elite probably believe that enough people (to cause them problems) will never come to believe or know the truth because of their dominance of the mass media. So what if a few people know the truth and are resisting them? The mass media can just write those people off as "crazy conspiracy theorists" and the vast majority of the brainwashed population will believe whatever the mass media tells them to without thinking for themselves.....and thus, no massive movement by the population to overthrow the government or change things will occur.

Furthermore, the elite now have so much power that they probably fear people knowing the truth even less. Even if a larger portion of the population began to resist them, they now have so much power that they probably believe that that portion of the population would not be able to stop their plans.

[Edited on February 12, 2004 at 2:20 PM. Reason : ..]

2/12/2004 2:10:59 PM

Quote :

"What I do know is that the government was complicit in 9/11 and the official story is not the truth."

o so you actually were involved with the government's planning of all this? cause if you weren't then you dont know jack. you and a few others "think and conceive" the government was involved. you have not provided any hardcore, concrete evidence of your thoughts. you have provided holeless, uncredited sources that have no background in the understanding of physics, science and engineering.

2/12/2004 2:21:32 PM

Quote :

"o so you actually were involved with the government's planning of all this? cause if you weren't then you dont know jack. you and a few others "think and conceive" the government was involved. you have not provided any hardcore, concrete evidence of your thoughts. you have provided holeless, uncredited sources that have no background in the understanding of physics, science and engineering. --brianj320 "

That may be your opinion, but it is hardly consistent with reality.

The stand down of the military interceptor jets is proof in and of itself that the U.S. government was complicit. On top of that, we have a mountain of other evidence, including prior knowledge of the attacks by the government and the government's numerous lies about what really happened on 9/11 (which proves a government attempt to cover up the truth).

Secondly, I don't have to have been involved with any "government planning" to know that they were complicit in the 9/11 attacks. Such a suggestion is ludicrous. That fact can be seen from other evidence, including the government's actions (and inaction). In a court of law, must the prosecution put forth a witness that overheard a criminal's planning of a crime in order to prove guilt? Of course not. You can offer a variety of other forms of evidence, including eyewitness testimony that a person saw the defendant commit the crime, various forms of physical evidence, etc.

[Edited on February 12, 2004 at 2:34 PM. Reason : ..]

2/12/2004 2:25:06 PM

Sometimes it is imperative to keep a secret in order to win a war. Try looking at the history of the enigma machine. Churchill hid the knowledge of the broken German code, in order to keep using the info. However, that secret cost an entire town.

Furthermore, many people KNOW that the government was complicit in the Pearl Harbor attack. What do you think?

Sometimes not letting the enemy know what you are thinking or what you know aids the eradication of the enemy. Maybe you should consider this when you speculate about what the government knows and doesn't know. You are not worth telling top secret info.

Arrogance seems to be an accurate word to describe your attitude...

To those that seem to make an effort to insult, don't...it doesn't help your argument at all.

1337, we have a court system that will stop all conspiracies from actually catchin' on...death isn't the only way to shut a conspiracy theory down. So, I think our government is probably onto Conspiracies 311 by now, so if indeed there is a conspiracy...death ain't the only way to stifle it.

2/12/2004 2:36:30 PM

just curious salis, do you feel any sorrow for the families and loved ones that were killed in the WTC and Pentagon disasters?

[Edited on February 12, 2004 at 2:38 PM. Reason : .]

2/12/2004 2:37:12 PM

If I didn't, would I be here trying to tell people who was really responsible for their deaths?


[Edited on February 12, 2004 at 2:49 PM. Reason : ..]

2/12/2004 2:48:28 PM

Quote :

"Furthermore, many people KNOW that the government was complicit in the Pearl Harbor attack. What do you think? --RitemindLeft "

That is my understanding and belief as well.

Alex Jones discusses the evidence related to Pearl Harbor near the begining of his film 9/11: The Road to Tyranny. Go to around 10 minutes into the film for a discussion on Pearl Harbor. The entire film can be downloaded for free here:

http://sf.indymedia.org/uploads/the_road_to_tyranny__34kbps_.rm

[Edited on February 12, 2004 at 3:54 PM. Reason : ..]

2/12/2004 3:47:50 PM

the funny thing is that people here have described you and what you were like

so i have this humorous

very nerdly picture

to go along with these ridiculous posts

[Edited on February 12, 2004 at 3:53 PM. Reason : more than one]

2/12/2004 3:52:53 PM

Oh, yeah...well what are those descriptions like? What am I like?

[Edited on February 12, 2004 at 3:55 PM. Reason : ..]

2/12/2004 3:55:05 PM

don't get OFF TOPIC douche bag

PLEASE continue your insane rambling

2/12/2004 3:56:36 PM

Quote :

"Look, man, I'm not inside these guys' heads, so I don't know what exactly they are thinking. What I do know is that the government was complicit in 9/11 and the official story is not the truth. That is a fact. They have succeeded in keeping the truth away from most people by their control over the media. But they can't keep all the truth secret....some of it will get out. "

Isn't it convenient how you can tell us what the people in the government knew and didn't know. You can tell us how a building is supposed to fall (even though you aren't an engineer). You can tell us who was involved in this consiracy. You can tell us "facts" about 9/11 that know one can really know. You can tell us what the conspiracy is trying to do, who they're run by, what methods they're using, when they've struck, why they've struck and who they're after and for what reasons, but you can't tell us why they haven't learned the lesson every single dictator in history has learned. That's mighty convenient.

Quote :

" A small minority of people can't cause a revolution or overthrow the government...it takes a sizeable number of people."

I think history would beg to differ.

Quote :

"The elite probably believe that enough people (to cause them problems) will never come to believe or know the truth because of their dominance of the mass media. So what if a few people know the truth and are resisting them? The mass media can just write those people off as "crazy conspiracy theorists" and the vast majority of the brainwashed population will believe whatever the mass media tells them to without thinking for themselves.....and thus, no massive movement by the population to overthrow the government or change things will occu"

So not only did they fail Conspiracies 101 but they failed history as well?

Quote :

" Furthermore, the elite now have so much power that they probably fear people knowing the truth even less. Even if a larger portion of the population began to resist them, they now have so much power that they probably believe that that portion of the population would not be able to stop their plans. "

So did Caesar

Quote :

" The stand down of the military interceptor jets is proof in and of itself that the U.S. government was complicit. On top of that, we have a mountain of other evidence, including prior knowledge of the attacks by the government and the government's numerous lies about what really happened on 9/11 (which proves a government attempt to cover up the truth). "

You haven't show a single shread of evidence that hasn't been shot full of more holes than swisscheese.

Quote :

" In a court of law, must the prosecution put forth a witness that overheard a criminal's planning of a crime in order to prove guilt? Of course not. You can offer a variety of other forms of evidence, including eyewitness testimony that a person saw the defendant commit the crime, various forms of physical evidence, etc"

No, but the evidence presented has to be accurate (your isn't), reliable (yours isn't), and from sources of authority (your's isn't)

2/12/2004 5:01:47 PM

What you see, salis, is a number of possibilities of what happened on 9/11, just as your sources see the possibilities of Pearl Harbor. It COULD have been this, it COULD have been that. The facts are the government has a story that makes them look guiltless, others have a story that makes the government completely to blame. Maybe, just maybe, the US should have known about it all, but didn't, and is kinda sheepish about it now. Hindsight is 20/20 you know. Oh, and if you are so upset about all this, go find some like-minded people, and start a revolution...that would be a better use of your time than posting on here 24/7.

2/12/2004 5:14:44 PM

You guys are fucking hilarious, I wasn't able to read the entire fifty million pages of this paranoid shit so someone may have already said this. DON'T ANY OF YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT PSYCHOLOGY????? It is the nature of big events like this for your mind to implant false memories, if you went up to people on the street and just randomly asked them what they remember they woudl say that they remember seeing the footage of the first plane hitting on 9/11 and they will say that that is the first thing they saw. That is simply how your mind works, I saw an entire show on TV about this and there were many interviews with people on the street about what they saw and most said this.

2/12/2004 8:45:13 PM

Quote :

"don't get OFF TOPIC douche bag PLEASE continue your insane rambling --nastoute"

YOU are the one who brought up the topic in the first place. So YOU are the one who is getting this thread off topic. Why don't you take your own advice and refer to yourself using the aforementioned deragatory terms?

[Edited on February 13, 2004 at 10:37 AM. Reason : ..]

2/13/2004 10:36:32 AM

The U.S. government was complicit in the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City in 1995 as well. THE EVIDENCE IS ABSOLUTELY CONCLUSIVE. Eyewitness reports prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that there were at least 3 bombs in the building. The Feds were reported removing at least 2 unexploded bombs from the building. This can be seen from news reports from local news channels in Oklahoma City. Siesmic evidence from the U.S. Geological survey and from the University of Oklahoma prove that there were at least 2 bombs that went off in or near the Murrah building. Interviewed eyewitnesses reported hearing at least two blasts on the morning the building was bombed. Furthermore, the BATF (who had offices in the Murrah building) had foreknowledge of the bobming. They were not in their offices at the time of the bombing and eyewitnesses that talked to BATF agents on that morning reported that BATF agents told them they were tipped off that there was going to be a bombing.

If you want to see this evidence (including the reports from local news channels and interviews of eyewitnesses), go to around 17 minutes, 15 seconds in this film below:

http://sf.indymedia.org/uploads/the_road_to_tyranny__34kbps_.rm

If you want to keep your head in the sand, blindly believe the lies the government and mass media has brainwashed us to believe, and remain in ignorant bliss, don't bother.



[Edited on February 13, 2004 at 11:24 AM. Reason : ..]

2/13/2004 11:14:52 AM

So.... the number of bombs that go off when a building is bombed means that the government ignored it? And being tipped off that there might be a bombing (i.e. getting a threatening letter) is not the same as knowing that one will go off, or when it will go off. Here's a great example. When I was in highschool, I happened to be witness to the discovery of a bomb threat note left in the school. At the time, I was in the middle of a free period and so I was directed to remain in the cafeteria where I was untill I recieved further instructions. It was a facinating experience to watch this unfold. For the first 10 minutes, they swept the area where the note was found. Then I watched as administrators went outside to tell all the parked delivery vehilces (the soda guys etc) to move back from the school. Then I watched as a cop pulled up to each roadway entrance to the school and blocked it. They then spent the next 30 minutes or so sweeping all the hallways and trashcans in the school. Finaly, after a hour (a whole hour after the threat was found) they announced that a bomb threat had been found and began the evacuation procedures. Now, if the bomb had gone off in 50 minutes as opposed to not going off at all, would that have meant the school was complicit in the bombing? That they knew and didn't do anything? No of course it wouldn't. Now, expand this model to an office building, and you can easily see where it could take a while before any evacuation is issued.

2/13/2004 11:32:38 AM

As I said before, those who WANT to remain ignorant and blindly believe the government lies can do so. If you want to know the truth, look at the evidence. Watch the video. If you don't want to know the truth, don't watch the video.

THE BATF KNEW THERE WAS GOING TO BE A BOMBING THAT MORNING. THEY KNEW. Watch the video if you don't believe me.

[Edited on February 13, 2004 at 11:37 AM. Reason : ..]

2/13/2004 11:35:19 AM

^ your nuts but its good b/c someone has to think about this kinda stuff.

2/13/2004 11:37:10 AM

I'm not nuts. Did you watch the video? I bet you didn't. Because if you did, you would agree with me.

I can't make you want to know the truth and remove your apparant desire to remain ignorant and apathetic about very important matters. That's your decision.

[Edited on February 13, 2004 at 11:39 AM. Reason : ..]

2/13/2004 11:38:59 AM

^ even if your right, your still completely nuts. but thats cool, word up.

2/13/2004 11:41:09 AM

You've got problems. Those who are apathetic and want to remain ingorant about matters as important as this are the ones who are nuts, not those who want to know the truth.

[Edited on February 13, 2004 at 11:45 AM. Reason : ..]

2/13/2004 11:43:23 AM

Quote :

"If you want to keep your head in the sand, blindly believe the lies the government and mass media has brainwashed us to believe, and remain in ignorant bliss, don't bother."

Quote :

"If you want to see this evidence (including the reports from local news channels and interviews of eyewitnesses), go to around 17 minutes, 15 seconds in this film below:"

believe it or not, just because the media is local news, doesn't mean that they don't slant things

[Edited on February 13, 2004 at 12:16 PM. Reason : .]

2/13/2004 12:15:25 PM

I refuse to install the piece of shit code they call real player to watch some POS conspiracy video. Give me it in a better format or go find the original articles and interviews and not this cut together shit from a conspiracy site and I'll take a look at it. And tell me:

HOW DO YOU KNOW THE BATF KNEW THERE WOULD BE A BOMBING, BUT YOU CAN"T TELL ME WHY THE GREAT CONSPIRACY LETS DISENTERS LIVE AND IS TOO STUPID TO PROPERLY COVER THEIR TRACKS?

2/13/2004 12:22:48 PM

Quote :

"I refuse... --1337 b4k4"

Yeah, you refuse to want to look at the evidence and find out the truth. You would rather stick your head in the sand and go along with the crowd believe the lies of the mass media and government. We get it. That's your choice.

[Edited on February 13, 2004 at 1:05 PM. Reason : ..]

2/13/2004 1:02:21 PM

Wrong, I refuse to damage my equipment. I will glady view the evidence if you can provide the evidence in a form which will not require me damaging my equipment.

Why don't you present the original articles and interviews? Why do you use this selectively edited shit? What are you hiding?

and again

HOW DO YOU KNOW THE BATF KNEW THERE WOULD BE A BOMBING, BUT YOU CAN"T TELL ME WHY THE GREAT CONSPIRACY LETS DISENTERS LIVE AND IS TOO STUPID TO PROPERLY COVER THEIR TRACKS?

2/13/2004 1:06:23 PM

Quote :

" Quote: "If you want to keep your head in the sand, blindly believe the lies the government and mass media has brainwashed us to believe, and remain in ignorant bliss, don't bother." Quote: "If you want to see this evidence (including the reports from local news channels and interviews of eyewitnesses), go to around 17 minutes, 15 seconds in this film below:" believe it or not, just because the media is local news, doesn't mean that they don't slant things"

[Edited on February 13, 2004 at 1:11 PM. Reason : that's better]

2/13/2004 1:07:59 PM

It is hard to completely cover your tracks. Just because they were unsuccessful in doing so does not mean that the U.S. governement was not complicit.

Are common criminals and conspirators not guilty because they were not successful in covering their tracks? Of course not.

Any more asinine questions you want answered?

2/13/2004 1:11:48 PM