Maybe with Kobe, but LeBron is different just because of his build

McGrady's a free safety, Kobe's a strong safety, and Lebron's a middle linebacker

Neither Tracy or Kobe can just bull thru people like LBJ does


How much would you you pay to be able to do this just one time in your life?

3/3/2008 10:29:08 AM

Quote :

"Neither Tracy or Kobe can just bull thru people like LBJ does"

Yeah...I think Lebron's power and strength ALMOST make up for his questionable jump shot. Its definitely good enough right now, but if he can ever get it as smooth and consistent as T-Mac's and Kobe's, he'll be the best player ever.

3/3/2008 10:38:01 AM

Golden State 100
Atlanta 92


Not the final score...end of the third quarter.

3/4/2008 8:51:04 PM

^^He needs to learn to defend too. Until he does that, Kobe/Jordan will always be better.

3/4/2008 8:55:41 PM

Yeah Baron is killing it in this game

I'm going to see him tomorrow so I'm "scouting" the Warriors tonight, looking for any ammo to use for heckling

3/4/2008 8:58:29 PM

KOBE took over last night and it reminded me a lot of MICHAEL JEFFERY JORDAN

this guy is sick

I believe this is the lakers year

3/5/2008 1:34:34 PM

I just can't wait until the playoffs. Maybe the 8 and 9 seeds in the West can have a playoff...because I want to see every one of those teams in the playoffs.

If it weren't for Chris Paul, I could care less to see the Hornets in the playoffs. But the PG matchups he could create...Paul/Baron...Paul/Nash...Paul/Parker...Paul/Williams....nice.

So I guess it would be between the Rockets and Nuggets to pick a team I would rather see "less" in the playoffs. I would like to see T-Mac try and carry the Rockets through the first round...maybe going off for some 40 and 50 point nights. But it would also be fun to see Melo and AI try to outscore whoever they face in the playoffs.

3/5/2008 1:50:20 PM

I'd like to see the Jazz fade out personally

Never liked them much and I really don't like two of their players, Boozer and Harpring

3/5/2008 2:00:09 PM

They're more fun to watch now though...they've become a high scoring team.

And I've become a huge fan of Deron Williams. I'm indifferent towards Boozer and Harpring. Can't say I'm a fan...but I don't dislike them too much either. I'd love to see Deron and Paul go at it in a best-of-7.

3/5/2008 2:11:08 PM

i don't really like the jazz either...for some reason the arena always seems dark and shitty...but also even though they have totally different personnel than they did back in the Stockton/Malone days, it still kind of seems like the same team since Jerry Sloan has been there for 80 years

3/5/2008 2:20:23 PM

Reason number 347 why I don't like the Jazz



They're scared to death of Rashard Fucking McCants

3/5/2008 2:33:24 PM

They have a cool mascot....

3/5/2008 2:53:29 PM

i love the Utah Bear

just not the Jazz

^^klolrver

3/5/2008 2:54:53 PM

I don't think it's inconceivable that the Suns miss the playoffs, they've looked downright awful since the Shaq trade (like everyone and their mothers said they would). Still, if it comes down to them and the Nuggets, I think the Suns get in.

3/5/2008 3:49:22 PM

Lebron has 50, 8, and 10.

MVP...nuff said.

3/5/2008 10:03:21 PM

Monta Ellis is fast as shit but before tonight I never realized how much he palms/carries the ball and gets away with it...and I'm not trying to say "oh I didn't realize travelling/palming/etc is different in the NBA"...I've seen all the ballers play in person...Kobe, Wade, Vince, T-Mac, Lebron, Melo, etc...Monta palms the FUCK out of the ball...but he's really good

oh yeah, Bobcats win...3 straight...holla!

3/5/2008 10:08:16 PM

Against the Knicks...c'mon. There isn't a guy on that team that could guard him.

I stand by my statement that no one from the East should be considered for MVP. Orlando is the #3 seed in the East, and they would be number 8 in the West. A few days ago, they were actually on the outside looking in.

I'm not saying that Kobe should get it, but I'd vote for Kobe/Nowitski/Duncan/Ginobili/CP3/Boozer/Baron before KG and LeBron. Flame away if you want.

3/5/2008 10:11:27 PM

whats up with the dude coming out of the stands at MSG

fuckin' dumbass

[Edited on March 5, 2008 at 10:20 PM. Reason : .]

3/5/2008 10:13:20 PM

Quote :

" I stand by my statement that no one from the East should be considered for MVP."

That's just retarded. It's not these players fault that the rest of their teams sucks. Lebron had 50 pts....and almost a triple double. He's carrying his team...how is that not the most valuable??

3/5/2008 10:19:19 PM

I'm basically going by the standards that media and other NBA pundits have used in the last few years. You have to be on one of the top teams, and only Boston and Detroit fit the bill in the East.

Kobe would have won the MVP years ago if the media put more emphasis on the most outstanding player. Instead, it has to be the most outstanding player on a top performing team. LeBron has the stats, but the Cavs don't have the team success to warrant a vote.

3/5/2008 10:25:01 PM

Too bad the media seems AT LEAST split this year...I would say they might be favoring Lebron.

Kobe's numbers in the past have never been what Lebron has this year (in rebounds and assists).

3/5/2008 10:32:41 PM

Quote :

"Kobe would have won the MVP years ago if the media put more emphasis on the most outstanding player. Instead, it has to be the most outstanding player on a top performing team."

even then kobe had a better supporting cast then lebron has now. and i agree that he prob deserved an mvp once in the last 3-4 years, but a past mistake doesnt mean they can't make the correct choice this year. lebron is obviously the most irreplaceable player on any team in the league.

3/5/2008 10:36:48 PM

You should know that stats don't tell the whole story.

Rebounds is a joke of a stat. I'll give him more credit for having higher assist numbers.

I'm sure the media is somewhat split. I also think they'll give it to Kobe. It may happen because LeBron has "plenty of good years to win one."

It would be hypocritical for them to vote for LeBron because he's the "best player", even though they didn't use that logic when they shafted Kobe a couple years back. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised, since Kobe is the most polarizing player in all of sports.

3/5/2008 10:38:16 PM

Defensive rebounding is less valuable because it is an act that involves multiple teammates boxing out potential offensive rebounders, and it is repeatedly arbitrary who actually grabs the rebound.

Offensive rebounding is a rarer occurrence and almost exclusively a strictly individual accomplishment.

3/5/2008 10:43:22 PM

Kobe just had a game where he went 52, 11, and 4. We're not talking a massive stat discrepancy here. Lebron is a 6'8" 250 pound power forward, he better have more rebounds than 6'6" 205 pound shooting guard. He also handles the ball on every single possession for the Cavs, so he better have a bunch of assists. The numbers are practically a wash imo.

The bottom line is Kobe is just the better clutch player, a better defender, and is leading a much better team in a much better conference. The west this year is the most competitive conference in the history of the league, and Kobe has them at or near the top. You have to take that into consideration. The Cavs wouldn't even be a playoff team in the Western conference. Would you give a player on a non-playoff team the MVP? And, don't tell me Kobe doesn't carry that team, just look at the last two games where he had to bail them out practically on his own in the 4th quarter.

and yeah, the "better supporting cast" thing is a joke. Smush Parker and Kwame Brown? Are you kidding me?

[Edited on March 5, 2008 at 10:49 PM. Reason : :]

3/5/2008 10:45:10 PM

Quote :

"even then kobe had a better supporting cast then lebron has now. and i agree that he prob deserved an mvp once in the last 3-4 years, but a past mistake doesn't mean they can't make the correct choice this year. lebron is obviously the most irreplaceable player on any team in the league."

A better cast? Only last year, Kobe had Smush and Kwame..starting. Odom was all he had, and he's the best fourth quarter choke artist I know. Bynum wasn't the force he was. Vujacic was still an 11 o'clock player. Mihm was still hurt. Walton was still garbage. They had Cook and Evans, and they didn't produce much. Farmar was a rookie and had no production. Radman had a hurt hand and then screwed up his shoulder while snowboarding. And the Lakers still were able to crack the playoffs in the West, which was still more dominant that year.

Granted, Kobe's supporting cast is tons better than LeBron's now, Kobe could lead the Cavs to the playoffs. If T-Mac could play over 70 games, he could lead the Cavs to the playoffs. The East is that bad. Could they be as successful..? Maybe, maybe not, but they could all get the Cavs to the playoffs.

The Cavs won over 50 games the last two years. They're projected to win only 46.

[Edited on March 5, 2008 at 10:51 PM. Reason : .]

3/5/2008 10:45:55 PM

Quote :

" The bottom line is Kobe is just the better clutch player"

I would use to think that...but I think it's pretty much a wash now.

Lebron leads the league in 4th quarter points...and what he did against Detroit last year...scoring the last 25 points (I think it was 25)...I've never seen that before. That was Jordan-esque...maybe better.

Kobe is clutch as hell...but so is Lebron.

3/5/2008 11:04:45 PM

LeBron leads the league in 4th quarter scoring because the Laker's have had several games where they've been up by over 20 points and Kobe sat on the bench for the entire quarter. If the Lakers were always playing a competitive game, I'm pretty confident he'd be leading that statistic.

3/5/2008 11:07:22 PM

you don't really know that^

3/6/2008 1:54:00 AM

The east vs west argument isn't really significant since the majority of the schedules are the same for all teams.....though if they wouldn't make the playoffs in the West I could see that mattering

Lebron isn't just better on rebounds and assists, which you should give more credit to than you do, but his percentages are higher, his PER is better, true shooting percentage. He has been more clutch this season (since this is the 2007-2008 mvp award), his defense is improved but certainly isn't as good as Kobe's but isn't below average like some of you have claimed.

I think it's a wash right now, simply because the Lakers have looked so good. But they look good because their TEAM is the best in the NBA

3/6/2008 2:01:27 AM

The east vs. west arguement is significant if you look at the fuckin conferecne records...how do they play basically the same schedule if a team from the west in playing inside there division more often...

3/6/2008 2:56:19 AM

I think something like 58 of the 82 games are the same for all teams. So obviously it matters. But it really couldn't make much more than a 2 or 3 game difference in a record. I don't think a few games when comparing records are significant when looking at players' entire season.

3/6/2008 3:47:19 AM

Quote :

"you don't really know that"

I'm going to take my time to look through every game over the season and determine how many games were involved where the Lakers were up by over 15 by the end of the third. I'll also do the same for the Cavs. The only condition is that the Lakers or Cavs must also have won the game by double digits. Yeah, LeBron or Kobe may have still played in the 4th, but I can pretty much expect them both to have played very limited minutes as a result. I'll even throw in games where they were losing by over twenty by the end of the third, since most teams would throw it in by then and rest the starters.

I know LeBron missed six games with a sprained finger on his non-shooting hand, and that would also affect his 4th quarter numbers. He'd more than likely have a greater margin over Kobe in that regard, since his presence probably would've only kept the Cavs in the game and not resulted in a blowout.

Laker games:

11/2: Suns - Up 28
11/18: Bulls - Up 15
11/30: Jazz - Down 20
12/4: T-Wolves - Up 18
12/28: Jazz - Up 32
1/4: 76ers - Up 32
1/6: Pacers - Up 18
1/8: Grizzlies - Up 16
1/9: Hornets - Up 16
2/3: Wizards - Up 24
2/13: T-Wolves - Up 31
2/19: Hawks - Up 28
2/23: Clippers - Up 18
2/24: Sonics - Up 23
2/28: Heat - Up 15

Cav game:

11/12: Nuggets - Down 20
1/8: Sonics - Up 18
1/23: Wizards - Up 32
2/10: Nuggets - Down 30
2/24: Grizzlies - Up 15

The Lakers had 10 more games where Kobe could've sat the 4th and not come back, or at the very most had some limited role where he came in for 4 minutes and then sat down. If those games were closer, Kobe's fourth quarter numbers would have been higher. Higher than LeBron? I don't know, but it would definitely be close. He is the closer for a reason.

3/6/2008 11:23:37 AM

Lebron will get his MVPs but this year it is all KOBE!!

i dont want to hear all of this bullshit about how "lebron is leading a team that has no supporting cast so he should get the MVP"

FUCK THAT!!!!

Kobe averaged 35.1 points a game for a whole season and led his shitty ass team to the playoffs and didnt get shit for it because of some sorry ass lil canadian!!

by the way, no one will average 35+ ppg ever again in the NBA

Kobe is the MVP!!!!!

sorry for the foul language i just felt strongly about what i was typing

3/6/2008 12:04:29 PM

Kobe scored 81 points in THE FIRST THREE QUARTERS AND THEN SAT OUT THE 4TH

Lebron isn't fucking with Kobe at least not yet

Quote :

"his percentages are higher"

except for FT% which isn't even close....oh yeah and Kobe also has a better 3PT%....so I don't know why you'd even attempt to claim his percentages are higher

Quote :

"The east vs west argument isn't really significant since the majority of the schedules are the same for all teams"

are you kidding me? Cleveland plays most western conference teams twice...a home and an away...they also play most eastern conference teams 4 times...2 homes and 2 aways...whereas the Lakers play most eastern conference teams twice and most western conference teams 4 times...and since the west is a much better conference, thats what makes Kobe and the Lakers even more impressive

do you honestly think Boston is the best team in the league? or maybe they just play a lot of Eastern Conference opponents...although in fairness Boston did play well against teams in the West earlier in the season

Quote :

"Lebron has 50, 8, and 10. MVP...nuff said."

I could've sworn Kobe had a 50 point game this week...

btw we all see how much of a joke the MVP award has become...Steve fucking Nash won it the past 2 years...looks like Marion was the more valuable player on Phoenix's roster

3/6/2008 12:22:11 PM

Quote :

"Kobe scored 81 points in THE FIRST THREE QUARTERS AND THEN SAT OUT THE 4TH"

He had 62 in three quarters vs Dallas then sat out the 4th

In the Toronto game where he scored 81, He played the whole game and I think he had at least 20 points in the 4th

3/6/2008 12:55:10 PM

oh yeah thats right i got those games mixed up

Kobe did have 55 in the first half of that Toronto game

he has over 20 50+ point games in his career

Lebron is a baller but Kobe is just better...he's been flatout the best player in the NBA for years

3/6/2008 12:56:54 PM

hollinger is the one that actually points out the slight difference the schedule could play in a team's record. Since he's a numbers guy, I'd trust him for the most part. I said it could matter, but with almost 3/4ths of the schedules being the same, the fact that the western conference has a few really bad teams too and simply how few of the games will actually be different. It wouldn't really matter more than a few wins or losses. I wasn't saying it had no effect, but 3 games just aint shit. But honestly, when looking at how good the lakers are, can we really compare teams to decide the better players season?

Yes, Kobe is a better 3 pt shooter and free throw shooter. He's a better player. He has just not played as well as Lebron James this season.

Everyone really should stop using the Nash vs kobe mvp season as a comparison or for the argument. Kobe barely made the playoffs that year and his stats weren't as good as lebrons are this year. (besides the 35ppg, but if Lebron took that many shots he'd be averaging more than that, and subsequently less assists)

I'm not saying Nash should have won both of those mvps...But some of the statistical numbers he put up were better than you guys are giving credit. being the best 3 pt shooter,best free throw shooter, shooting 50 percent as a point guard, leading the league in assists and being in the top 25 in scoring is impressive. Especially when you're clearly the motor for the league's best team. He's a slightly below average defender, not as bad as amare, eddy curry or any of the others as people would make you think.

superdude, you did all that work but it really doesn't mean anything. Besides coaching tendencies which could completely make your stat pointless. I believe Jackson tosses losses out faster anyway. The lakers have the best bench in the league. The cavs have one of the worst. This would effect it. I just dont' see how that shows that Lebron is less clutch. Did we not see the series against the Pistons. He's put up a ton of 15 pt 4th quarters in the flow of the game this season. Kobe could definitely be the mvp this year (if their record is the best and the cavs stop playing the way they've been playing), but it won't be because he is so "clutch"

3/6/2008 2:18:57 PM

I couldn't tell you who's better right now

But I think Kobe has 3, maybe 4 years before the 6 year age differential begins to work against him and LeBron is undoubtedly the best player in the league

In 5 years we could be having this argument between LeBron, Durant, and someone who's in the 10th grade right now

3/6/2008 2:23:43 PM

Quote :

"He's a slightly below average defender, not as bad as amare, eddy curry or any of the others as people would make you think."

haha nash is a HORRIBLE defender...thats my main issue with him winning MVP...offensive MVP sure...but he plays no defense at all...he's a defensive liability against anybody he's "guarding"

In 2008 the best basketball player in the NBA is Kobe Bryant. I'd gladly argue that against anyone. You could say Duncan is a better big if you want to classify players like that, but Kobe is definitely the best wing player in the NBA. Lebron has more potential due to his strength but he is still rusty in some areas like shooting consistency...it will come with time...but at the present time, Kobe is in his prime.

3/6/2008 2:24:27 PM

Quote :

"superdude, you did all that work but it really doesn't mean anything. Besides coaching tendencies which could completely make your stat pointless. I believe Jackson tosses losses out faster anyway. The lakers have the best bench in the league. The cavs have one of the worst. This would effect it. I just dont' see how that shows that Lebron is less clutch. Did we not see the series against the Pistons. He's put up a ton of 15 pt 4th quarters in the flow of the game this season. Kobe could definitely be the mvp this year (if their record is the best and the cavs stop playing the way they've been playing), but it won't be because he is so "clutch""

You wanted to know how I figured that Kobe would come close or be leading the league in 4th quarter scoring, and I brought the stats to back it up. Even if Jackson tosses losses out faster, what does it matter? There was only one game where they were getting blown out by more than 20 after three quarters. Do you want me to change it to fifteen, since he figures the game is over by then? If that's the case, it would only help Kobe's argument if he's getting held out of the 4th quarter when the team is losing by 15. With a guy like Kobe, I wouldn't be throwing in the towel if my team was down 15 in the fourth, so I think your opinion is pretty much wrong.

LeBron can pretty much bulldoze his way to the paint almost anytime he wants. According to 82games.com, over 60% of his scoring during crunch time comes by layup/dunk. 75% of Kobe's scoring comes from jumpshots. That said, I'd rather have a jumpshooter if I needed the last shot taken before I go to LeBron to bail me out. They don't call fouls at the end of games with that mess anyway.

3/6/2008 2:41:46 PM

Every current player they ask says Kobe is the best player on the planet (including LBJ). Every current coach they ask says Kobe is the best player on the planet. Every former coach and player they ask says Kobe is the best player on the planet.

The only people who say otherwise are sports writers and analysts who have never coached or played in the NBA. John Hollinger is the biggest joke of them all. He invented a system (PER) so he could have something to masturbate over in his own articles where he uses it to draw outlandish conclusions like Manu Ginobili = Kobe Bryant. The only thing that would keep Kobe from winning the MVP are people who are going to vote against him for completely non-basketball related reasons.

[Edited on March 6, 2008 at 2:56 PM. Reason : i]

3/6/2008 2:53:10 PM

course theres still the MVP vs. MOP thing and which one do you go with?

I'd say Lebron has been more valuable to his team this year simply due to the Lakers having more weapons...but I'd say Kobe is a more outstanding player and thats how I look at the award

makes things interesting

3/6/2008 3:01:37 PM

did you just fault Lebron for taking high percentage shots in crunch time? That doesn't make sense.

The lakers having a gret bench will allow them to hold leads in the 4th quarter with Kobe sitting. The cavs have to play lebron or they lose the game they are up by 10. Because he's valuable.

nash is bad on defense. But he's not the worst defender on his team, that's Amare. Shit, he's better than Iverson, Marbury, Cassell. Ok so I should just come up with all the bad defnders in the league. He is the coach on d, plays good help, and the year Kobe scored 35 a game he wasn't the defender he was early in his career or now. Not faulting him for it, he was probably exhuasted from shooting the ball 28 times a game. But defense is a much better reason to dismiss nash than, kobe scoring 35 a game on a mediocre team.

Kobe this year is reminding me of Jordan when he started to realize he had to pass the ball sometimes to be more effective. that's when they began to win titles. Despite what some would have you believe, Jordan was just as much of a gunner.

I will concede that it is possible Kobe makes the game easier for his team than Lebron by being such a dynamic post player. He's probably the best in the post in the league besides Carmelo. This probably created just as many opportunities for his teammates as Lebron's penetration. It's disappointing that lebron isn't better in the post, with his strength and speed he should be taking all those little 2s and 3s that try to guard him on the block.

3/6/2008 3:02:49 PM

montclair how is it that most of what you say i agree with and then you come with some completely retarded shit like claiming STEVE NASH IS A BETTER DEFENDER THAN ALLEN IVERSON

3/6/2008 3:04:52 PM

I'm a big Iverson fan. but his gambling on defense isn't really helpful. Everyone knows Denver can't stop penetration and Iverson is a big reason for this. Iverson as a decent defender in college and early years but highly overrated especially in college because of his high steals numbers which aren't a good indicator of solid man up D. Iverson is probably better, or atleast should be becuase of athletic ability and quickness, but his steals don't make up for when he shoots the gap and a player gets a lay up because of it.

but you're right. Iverson is probably better, but not much. and every analyst will tell you denver's problem is defense in the backcourt.

3/6/2008 3:16:13 PM

Denver relies on outscoring their opponents and yeah AI's defense isn't what it once was, but still, he's much more athletic than Nash and able to actually stay in front of most people

3/6/2008 3:20:19 PM

he's able to do that, yes.

denver relies on outscoring because they can't stop anybody. Not because they prefer not to stop pentration.

3/6/2008 3:23:58 PM

i don't know how much they try to stop people though...I don't think Karl really stresses defense

coincidentally neither does Phoenix!

3/6/2008 3:24:44 PM

on Iverson, if he never has any more success than the 2001 finals appearance. Is his career a waste. Making him a scorer that made his teams lose. This would actually make him an overrated player.

I've always considered him to be the best player to play 6 ft or less. But if he doesn't have anymore success, it'd really be hard to make that argument.

3/6/2008 3:26:06 PM