For who?

7/9/2010 1:55:27 PM

Quote :

"Mo Williams and Shaq were both all-stars in 2009 Antawn Jamison was an all-star in 2008"

To see how far players can drop off in just one year, see Iverson, Allen.

Shaq has been falling off for years. Only reason he made it in 2009 was because the centers in the Western Conference were abysmal and Phoenix ruined their team just to feed him the ball. The move to get him to Cleveland was HORRIBLE. It was a panic move to combat Dwight Howard and the Magic and it backfired.

Jamison was a quick fix that didn't work either. That MIGHT have been a good move if it had been made before the season started and he had a chance to develop chemistry with the team. But you don't bring in a player of that caliber that late in the season and expect him to mesh perfectly. Late in the season you bring James Posey's and Tony Allen's to be defensive stoppers and sparks off the bench. So again...another shitty move by the front office.

You're not helping your case at all.

7/9/2010 1:55:54 PM

Quote :

"you bolt and show little faith in the organization that made you"

ahhahaha, you mean, they "made him" as in they made it so that he had mediocre players & coaches around him

please shut your goddamn mouth right this instant.

dude made himself the player that he is, not the organization.

7/9/2010 1:56:55 PM

THE_REAL_SHAQ: "Goin back to LA to play with Kobe and Phil, win another title, show Lebron he is a chump"

7/9/2010 1:56:59 PM

Quote :

"Antawn Jamison was traded to the Cavs midseason, but only played 66 games total due to injuries Shaq was injured for roughly half of the one season he played with the Cavs"

So now the front office acquired aging players with health issues??

7/9/2010 1:57:25 PM

Quote :

"the Cav's management and front office suck donkey balls."

7/9/2010 1:58:44 PM

yeah, you're right. the cavs did nothing to help lebron. in fact, they actively tried to sabotage his chances of winning and creating his legacy.

7/9/2010 1:59:09 PM

They tried to help him.

They just failed miserably.

And it all started with the $70 million they threw at Larry Hughes.

7/9/2010 1:59:46 PM

They tried. They failed....miserably.

Not one move they made was really all that great. Not one. Not even the Mo Williams move.

7/9/2010 2:00:47 PM

I blame the decline in play by Booby Gibson and Zdrunas

7/9/2010 2:01:10 PM

Quit plagarizing me arog

7/9/2010 2:01:35 PM

Quote :

"MESSAGE BOARD PLAGIARISM"

I'm tired of all these Cleveland apologists. Some of these guys act like they would suck Danny Ferry off for bringing in fucking Antwan Jamison. sheesh.

[Edited on July 9, 2010 at 2:04 PM. Reason : .]

7/9/2010 2:03:01 PM

maybe. but if he wants to be compared to jordan, he severely hurt his chances last night. jordan never left the team that drafted him, and it's not like he was in love with jerry krause. jordan got beat down by the pistons multiple times, and then finally won. he persevered. i really think that hurts lebron's legacy.

7/9/2010 2:05:10 PM

Quote :

"yeah, you're right. the cavs did nothing to help lebron. in fact, they actively tried to sabotage his chances of winning and creating his legacy."

There is only one organization that is really capable of doing this...and that's the Knicks.

I would have included the Clippers, but they just have a ghost that goes out and Jeff Gillooly's all of their good players.

7/9/2010 2:05:26 PM

7/9/2010 2:06:48 PM

I really don't think LeBron is worried about the Jordan comparisons, honestly.

Besides being his own man and a different type of player, he doesn't have nearly the competitive fire that Jordan did.

[Edited on July 9, 2010 at 2:08 PM. Reason : a]

7/9/2010 2:07:44 PM

Quote :

"jordan never left the team that drafted him"

he did

twice

7/9/2010 2:08:34 PM

i don't think he was exactly chasing rings in the minor leagues....or d.c. you get my point.

Quote :

"I really don't think LeBron is worried about the Jordan comparisons, honestly. Besides being his own man and a different type of player, he doesn't have nearly the competitive fire that Jordan did."

that's fine with me. the comparisons should effectively stop now, though.

[Edited on July 9, 2010 at 2:12 PM. Reason : ]

7/9/2010 2:09:46 PM

Quote :

"no, the main difference is that none of them went chasing rings at the age of 25 there is something to be said about the process of getting knocked down, sticking to it, and finally overcoming the greatest challenge. it's not the same when you bolt and show little faith in the organization that made you."

Spare me that bullshit. It is easy to sit their and pick on athletes because the situation isn't being presented to you. Simplify it down, you get hired out of school by your home town local company, pay is good but the boss sucks, the company isn't going under but it isn't expanding either, your home town is nice but it isn't anything special. You turn 25 and a major company in a big city... lets call it Miami.. offers you the same job for the same pay, but it is an up and coming company, the boss is great, and there is more potential to do great things there because of their resources. You'd bolt too.

7/9/2010 2:12:22 PM

^i shouldn't even have to tell you how terrible of an analogy that is.

7/9/2010 2:13:35 PM

You and me and LBJ would bolt

guys like MJ and Kobe wouldnt

because they're not pussy cowards

neither are you or I, but LBJ is

7/9/2010 2:14:23 PM

and therein lies the difference...



look, i don't mind that he left (although he left in the most inconsiderate way imaginable). but seriously, will fans and media drop the comparison's to him as one of the all-time greats now? because if he wins (and he should, now) and winning cures everything, then maybe we need to start redefining what greatness is.

[Edited on July 9, 2010 at 2:16 PM. Reason : ]

7/9/2010 2:14:46 PM

If Kobe spent the first seven years of his career in Cleveland with that cast, he would have left, in my opinion.

But not to share the spotlight with another superstar.

No, he would have gone to New York, New Jersey or The Clippers to build his own leagacy.

7/9/2010 2:16:52 PM

have we all forgotten how many times Kobe tried to get out of LA

I mean it happened as recently as 3 years ago

7/9/2010 2:17:50 PM

I think another difference is that MJ and Kobe are assholes and they didn't like anybody and nobody liked them.

MJ wouldn't have teamed up with Isaiah or Bird because he hated those fuckers and those fuckers hated them. Same thing with Kobe. It's part of what makes their killer instinct.

Wade might have the most "killer instinct" of the three in Miami, but even he gets along with most everyone (except for anybody on the Mavs probably). You didn't see this type of "buddy-buddy" relationship with the guys back in the 80s and 90s. Those guys hated each other. Part of it started with the first Dream Team and everyone began playing with each other and forming bonds during the Olympics. Its grown ever since then and now everyone wants to play with each other.

7/9/2010 2:20:26 PM

Quote :

"Spare me that bullshit. It is easy to sit their and pick on athletes because the situation isn't being presented to you. Simplify it down, you get hired out of school by your home town local company, pay is good but the boss sucks, the company isn't going under but it isn't expanding either, your home town is nice but it isn't anything special. You turn 25 and a major company in a big city... lets call it Miami..offers you the same job for the same pay, but it is an up and coming company, the boss is great, and there is more potential to do great things there because of their resources. You'd bolt too."

If we're going to use shitty analogies, lets not get the facts skewed. Theres what? a 20 million dollar difference?

7/9/2010 2:20:40 PM

Right, and he would have left those horrible Smush Parker/Kwame Brown teams but he didn't have leverage.

There was no team out there with the cap space and the team framework in place to sign him, and he wasn't the kind of guy that could make any team better...he needed to be the main guy at that point, frustrated by playing second fiddle to Shaq all those years.

LeBron has always been the main guy, so playing an apparent second fiddle now isn't as daunting.

7/9/2010 2:20:57 PM

Quote :

"You didn't see this type of "buddy-buddy" relationship with the guys back in the 80s and 90s."

7/9/2010 2:23:00 PM

^^ I didnt realize being The Guy on a team that never did shit got you mentioned with the elites.

7/9/2010 2:24:04 PM

LeBron has played roughly 40% of his career

In the current crop of players, championships or not, he's as elite as they come

All time, yes, he'll have to get some hardware to climb that ladder

But no one's arguing that

7/9/2010 2:26:22 PM

Quote :

"I didnt realize being The Guy on a team that never did shit got you mentioned with the elites."

They said last night that he's on track to become the All-Time Leading Scorer by the time he's 36.

I'd call that elite.

7/9/2010 2:29:53 PM

I hope the Isaiah/Magic pic was a joke.

Magic and others tried to keep him off the original Dream Team. And there was Magic accusing Isaiah of spreading the rumors of Magic's sexuality.

The NBA was a fucking soap opera back in those days.

[Edited on July 9, 2010 at 2:32 PM. Reason : .]

7/9/2010 2:32:14 PM

Quote :

"Quote : "Spare me that bullshit. It is easy to sit their and pick on athletes because the situation isn't being presented to you. Simplify it down, you get hired out of school by your home town local company, pay is good but the boss sucks, the company isn't going under but it isn't expanding either, your home town is nice but it isn't anything special. You turn 25 and a major company in a big city... lets call it Miami..offers you the same job for the same pay, but it is an up and coming company, the boss is great, and there is more potential to do great things there because of their resources. You'd bolt too." If we're going to use shitty analogies, lets not get the facts skewed. Theres what? a 20 million dollar difference?"

The differences in state taxes will more than cover the pay difference. "Less money" is smoke and mirrors.

7/9/2010 3:10:59 PM

Quote :

"And there was Magic accusing Isaiah of spreading the rumors of Magic's sexuality."

do what? they are both gay as hell, i thought that was common knowledge amongst longtime NBA fans

Isaiah, Magic, Amechi, Theus, etc

7/9/2010 3:13:52 PM

Just going by what's been reported.

Quote :

"Magic's most shocking accusation, however, is that Thomas was responsible for spreading rumors that Johnson was gay or bisexual after Johnson tested positive for HIV, forcing his retirement at age 32. "Isiah kept questioning people about it,'' Magic says. "I couldn't believe that. The one guy I thought I could count on had all these doubts. It was like he kicked me in the stomach.'' Thomas vehemently denied that he had gossiped behind Magic's back, pointing out that he knew better than to engage in such hurtful talk."

7/9/2010 3:21:27 PM

i think they're both as queer as UNC football bats

they used to be real close, dunno what happened to make them start beefing, maybe magic walked in on isaiah with another man or something

Isaiah also said something (when asked about spreading rumors about Magic) to the effect of "if I was questioning Magic's sexuality, I might as well have been questioning my own" or something

[Edited on July 9, 2010 at 3:23 PM. Reason : the signs are there]

7/9/2010 3:23:07 PM

math fail

[Edited on July 9, 2010 at 3:27 PM. Reason : nvm]

7/9/2010 3:24:36 PM

I had to compare it to John Wall leaving Raleigh for Kentucky earlier today.

I think its a valid comparison.

7/9/2010 3:43:37 PM

Because Kevin Durant grew up in Austin, Derrick Rise grew up in Memphis, and Kris Lang grew up in Chapel Hill

7/9/2010 3:46:55 PM

Bill Simmons (who sucks) or one of his readers made the most perfect comparison

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H76DwHgOwpA&feature=related

7/9/2010 3:51:50 PM

I don't think lebron can win really, if he had stayed in cleveland people would just be saying, oh he just wants the most money and publicity, and isn't focused on winning titles

7/9/2010 3:52:02 PM

^ agreed, he is a free agent, I'll never understand the entitlement issues of pro sport fans.

7/9/2010 4:12:35 PM

it's just a sad day for small market NBA teams. lebron was one of the last hopes that a small market team could win an NBA championship. it really makes me respect guys like reggie miller, who did everything they could to win without being in a major market.

7/9/2010 4:15:12 PM

Cleveland's much bigger than San Antonio

7/9/2010 4:16:59 PM

I was unaware that San Antonio was a large market

[Edited on July 9, 2010 at 4:17 PM. Reason : i'm slow]

7/9/2010 4:17:24 PM

Cleveland metro is roughly the same as SA

[Edited on July 9, 2010 at 4:18 PM. Reason : triple post]

7/9/2010 4:17:46 PM

i figured the san antonio argument would come up. but there's no denying the lack of parity in the NBA

7/9/2010 4:18:08 PM

You're right about that

Another reason MLB > everyone

7/9/2010 4:19:09 PM

this has nothing to do with money though, as it does with other sports where parity is an issue

[Edited on July 9, 2010 at 4:20 PM. Reason : .]

7/9/2010 4:19:40 PM

Why make a point if you're aware there's such a blatant counterpoint?

And besides, unless there's a hard cap like football, larger market teams will always have more success.

More money = better players = more wins

[Edited on July 9, 2010 at 4:21 PM. Reason : x]

7/9/2010 4:21:35 PM