Saiga 12 is for when a gang of 15 guys tries to rush your house

1/20/2012 11:11:02 PM

no, that's what claymores are for.

1/20/2012 11:20:52 PM

With ksg you can load one tube with slugs and the other with buck shot the select the tube to shoot from with the flip of a switch. That is the biggest "advantage" ksg has over saiga

1/20/2012 11:25:21 PM

while i like that idea, i don't imagine my thought process dynamically evaluating the advantages of slugs vs shot in an HD scenario...I imagine it'd be pretty much grab'n go, flying on adrenaline and instinct. The big advantage for me is the size.

Randomly enough, in the middle of the night last night I heard some faint noises and my dog started barking, she NEVER barks. Got my hackles up and the gf was getting freaked, so I got up and grabbed the G32 (TLR-1 light is great btw, good recommendation) and quietly and briskly searched the apartment. That was my first "real world" potential home defense scenario and while I didn't find anything out of the ordinary it definitely made me very aware of the importance of the size of your weapon in close quarters / room-to-room situations, especially for someone with no military or tactical training. Basically, for a HD shotgun I want as compact as possible and that KSG seems to fit the bill.

Never did figure out what got the dog all riled up though, still a little weird.

1/21/2012 12:09:05 AM

[Edited on January 21, 2012 at 12:25 AM. Reason : Being pretentious. Do what you do]

1/21/2012 12:17:33 AM

I mean I'm just window shopping here anyway...this is coming from the guy that was just asking seriously about an H&R Pardner. Saiga or KSG are a long way off but a guy can dream can't he

1/21/2012 12:30:02 AM

I was advising against room clearing, unless you have a reason like kids; the manner in which I said it was snotty though.

1/21/2012 8:55:50 AM

Now I want to know what you posted.

1/21/2012 9:36:25 AM

I'll take the advice, like I said I don't have any training in that sort of thing. just doing what comes natural

out with it man, snotty or otherwise

1/21/2012 10:01:06 AM

^^

1/21/2012 12:29:44 PM

Well since you guys asked, I'll woof my own shit. My certs are as following: Mountain Leaders Advanced Rifle Marksmanship, School of the Gun, SFQC Basic Urban Combat and the Special Forces Advanced Urban Combat course. I provide these only to provide my background and not as dick-measuring.

1 man room clearing is very dangerous. It has to be done explosively and dynamically, in order to be effective. Silence-violence-silence. However, you aren't ever going to account for all the dead space and angles.

My recommendation to civilians, as unsexy as it is, is always going to be barricade yourself with your gun and call the police. This protects you physically and legally. Your television is not worth your life.

If you feel the need to clear, because of a disturbance as you mentioned earlier and not a perceived threat, do so slowly and methodically so as to not draw attention to yourself, and only as far into the house as necessary to confirm or deny the presence of a threat; pieing open doors, creeping hallways etc. If you ID someone in your home, I would revert back to the plan mentioned earlier. If you're barricaded, and someone still intends to do you harm, kill them.

I know my opinion isn't popular but there it is.

1/21/2012 4:48:10 PM

I figured that was what you were going to post; everything I know, teach, and practice from dynamic entries to slow and methodical searches says never search alone but I might violate this in my own place.

1/21/2012 6:25:54 PM

i shouldve gone shooting today, didnt rain nearly like they said it was going to

1/21/2012 6:59:51 PM

^ I did

1/21/2012 7:30:25 PM

I, too, went shooting today

1/21/2012 8:15:11 PM

I preordered one of these:


I think I may have to set up a trust and SBR this thing.

1/21/2012 8:34:12 PM

Quote :

"With ksg you can load one tube with slugs and the other with buck shot the select the tube to shoot from with the flip of a switch. That is the biggest "advantage" ksg has over saiga "

I don't really like that idea, even if it's an option. For one thing, it just seems needlessly complicated under duress. Primarily, though, I would not want to sacrifice capacity that could be used for 0, 00, or 000 buckshot in order to carry slugs to begin with. I'd much rather have the buckshot.

Quote :

"The saiga is long and tall (unless you put a drum on it), and while the semi-auto option is a game-changer i feel like the dimensions might become a liability in a HD situation don't get me wrong, I'm sure I'd be happy with either. can the saiga shoot 3" shells? the KSG only chambers 2 3/4""

A 19" Saiga with a collapsible M4-style stock is pretty damned short. I mean, no, I'm sure it's not quite as short as a stubby bullpup, but it's certainly easily handled.

To me, the drum is a little unwieldy, because it gets in the way of your forearm and you have to reach around it. I had a 10-round mag that I would probably prefer if I wasn't just going out and fucking off with the shotgun. If you want something more (vertically) compact, get an 8-rd mag.

The Saiga will indeed shoot 3" shells (although the drums, or at least the one I had, would only hold 2 3/4"). Adjusting the gas settings can also help mitigate the recoil some.

Without having actually shot the KSG, I would have a hard time choosing it over a Saiga 12.

1/21/2012 8:37:40 PM

This guy clears rooms like a champ:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vbfo6U4faw

1/21/2012 10:18:36 PM

He had the benefit of reconaissance by fire, and two jundies in front.

1/21/2012 11:54:01 PM

The KSG are msrp of $700, but dealers are selling them for $2000-2500 right now because of no availability.
These guns haven't even been out long enough to know if they are crap or not.
The idea may be good, but I'll wait for a year or two when all the remans or 'bored with' guns hit the market for $400

1/22/2012 11:17:06 AM

Nutnfancy does a field drill with Chad (from Kel-Tec) reviewing and testing the new KSG. It's a long set of vids, but worth it if you are interested in the KSG, IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_z6vqX0-K0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCQRExoHIjI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii_wgxaLiak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1fvjncwX8I

1/22/2012 2:31:51 PM

can someone recommend to me the best/cheap bulk .223/5.56?

either/both? thanks!

1/22/2012 3:27:32 PM

Quote :

"I'd much rather have the buckshot"

I love buckshot, but Federal's Truball Slug is accurate out to 100 yards.

1/22/2012 3:28:55 PM

it might be 15 yards from my bedroom to the front door....if i'm trying to shoot at something 100 yards away I have a rifle....

1/22/2012 4:07:40 PM

Quote :

"can someone recommend to me the best/cheap bulk .223/5.56? either/both? thanks!"

I mostly use this PMC X-TAC 55gr:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ammunition/rifle-ammunition/223-5-56/pmc-x-tac-55gr.html

1/22/2012 4:09:49 PM

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/01/21/2946087/police-robber-killed-in-sc-waffle.html
+1

1/22/2012 4:26:47 PM

Anyone have any experience with Browning Hi-Powers? I think they are one of the classiest looking guns and a nice piece of pistol history. If acquire one I'd like to keep around for a while, not as a safe queen, but something I would shoot occasionally.

P.S. - CZ's are awesome!

[Edited on January 22, 2012 at 4:45 PM. Reason : werd]

1/22/2012 4:29:57 PM

^ don't have any personal experience with them but I have always heard good things. Would definitely be a gun I would use as you described though.

1/22/2012 5:56:40 PM

Quote :

"can someone recommend to me the best/cheap bulk .223/5.56?"

handloads

you've already got the equipment to load rifle ammo. buy a cheap set of Lee dies, some bulk FMJs, 8 lbs of H335, and knock yourself out. brass is plentiful and cheap.

1/22/2012 8:41:35 PM

anybody have a range bag they really like? i've been using a cheap duffel bag and i'm tired of everything just being jumbled around and having to dig around to find stuff.

1/22/2012 10:55:20 PM

what all do you keep in your range bag?

1/22/2012 11:18:01 PM

ammo, pistols, rangefinder, bipod, magazines, shooting bags, binoculars, small targets, safety glasses, earplugs, misc small tools

[Edited on January 22, 2012 at 11:23 PM. Reason : and fired brass goes back in the bag]

1/22/2012 11:23:20 PM

fuck it, went ahead and ordered the midway competition range bag. probably should've waited until it went on sale, but i'm really fed up with this damn duffel bag.

1/22/2012 11:52:36 PM

For those with a CCW issued in Wake County, how long did it take from the time you applied to the time you received it? I applied the third week in October and still have nothing. When I called a couple weeks ago I was told that if it hasn't been 90 days not to even ask. Called today and was told it shouldn't be much longer; "no more than a few weeks" in her own words.


The people I took the class with all got their permits a long time ago (they applied in Nash and Northampton Counties). I understand why the Nash County sheriff would be pushing CCWs out the door to law abiding citizens as quickly as possible though. Heck, I'd probably throw in some free ammo if I was him.

[Edited on January 23, 2012 at 9:52 AM. Reason : s]

1/23/2012 9:50:02 AM

it only took me about 3-4 weeks to get mine in Wake County.

1/23/2012 10:01:22 AM

I apped 2 weeks ago. According to the class I took, the sheriff now only has 45 to approve/reject an applicant.

1/23/2012 10:05:32 AM

Quote :

"§ 14-415.15. Issuance or denial of permit. (a) Except as permitted under subsection (b) of this section, within 90 days after receipt of the items listed in G.S. 14-415.13 from an applicant, the sheriff shall either issue or deny the permit. The sheriff may conduct any investigation necessary to determine the qualification or competency of the person applying for the permit, including record checks."

http://www.ncleg.net/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/byarticle/chapter_14/article_54b.html


Hmmm...I could call and bitch, but I worry that the easiest thing for them to do would be deny the permit, keep my $80, and tell me to have a nice life.

[Edited on January 23, 2012 at 10:23 AM. Reason : l]

1/23/2012 10:22:48 AM

they actually changed that rule to 45 days back in december, iirc

1/23/2012 12:02:40 PM

got mine in ~45 days

1/23/2012 12:10:22 PM

It seems that Wake County has been pushing the 90 day mark all year:

http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/concealed-carry-issues-discussions/122097-wait-time-cchp-wake-county-north-carolina-82-days.html

Quote :

"Amended G.S. 14-415.15 reduces from 90 to 45 days the time for the sheriff to issue or deny an application for a concealed carry permit and likewise reduces from 90 to 45 days the maximum period for a temporary, emergency permit."

Great.
Something tells me I won't get very far by calling the sheriff's office and telling them they are in violation of G.S. 14-415.15.

[Edited on January 23, 2012 at 12:21 PM. Reason : s]

1/23/2012 12:14:16 PM

It took maybe a couple of weeks to be my permit from the Watauga sheriff's office. And before that I could walk in and walk out with a purchase permit in 5 minutes. There's absolutely no reason it should take any longer than that.

1/23/2012 12:39:51 PM

They're claiming the SBI is the holdup, but that doesn't really make sense if all the other counties can process them so much faster. I suspect the SBI is the holdup *because they just sent my application to them last week.

I have never been treated for mental illness or substance abuse and I have a completely clean criminal record other than a few traffic tickets. Not a lot to consider IMO. I guess I'll sit tight for another week and call back.

Maybe they've tracked down my internet handle and are reading through the 50,000 or so posts I've made on this and other message boards before coming to a decision.

[Edited on January 23, 2012 at 12:56 PM. Reason : s]

1/23/2012 12:42:53 PM

A CHP application is not dependent on your traffic tickets, anyone in an office's opinion of you, or anything other than the conditions stated in NC General Statutes. You can pester them all you want and they can never, ever deny you for anything other than being legally disqualified.

If they've gone over 90 days, take them to task right now. They have violated the law, plain and simple, and there is absolutely nothing they can legally do to retaliate if you decide to call them on it.

1/23/2012 1:38:41 PM

talk me out of buying a VEPR in 7.62 x 54r

1/23/2012 5:10:37 PM

Are you a fan of that caliber or do yo just want a Russian machine gun?

1/23/2012 5:58:54 PM

I shot this today:

1/23/2012 6:18:21 PM

finally figured out how to light my safe without drilling a wire hole and it's fuckin sweet

at first i just had 3 of those cheap round battery-powered LED lights. they are the kind with a photocell that turns them on when they detect ambient light. they're for cabinets and stuff and are supposed to come on when you open the door. well, when i opened the safe door, they would come on until i stepped in front of the opening, then it'd get too dark and they'd go off.

i used these, but i got them cheaper at northern tool: http://preparedness.com/riliwi5ledpu3.html

then i was in sam's this weekend and found these: http://wireless-led-under-cabinet-lights.wireless-hdmi-transmitter.com/files/photo/31/l/wireless-led-under-cabinet-lights-b005gxmsds.jpg

battery powered with a wireless RF remote. i mounted the switch and all the lights inside the safe with velcro and then positioned the small round photocell lights where they would be triggered by the wireless remote lights. now i can see great in there. there's a little delay on the puck lights when you first flip the switch, which i guess is due to the photocells having to warm up or something.

[Edited on January 23, 2012 at 8:01 PM. Reason : adsf]

1/23/2012 7:59:16 PM

im a fan of the caliber, the rifle, and the russians in general.

1/23/2012 9:02:05 PM

Anyone have any thoughts as to red dot versus reflex optics?

1/25/2012 12:22:06 AM

^^^ Thanks for sharing! Great Idea

^^ Buy my Mosin Nagant!!!!!11

[Edited on January 25, 2012 at 1:09 AM. Reason : .]

1/25/2012 1:09:09 AM