Guthridge went to two Final Fours

He was also only there for three years, never coached his own recruits

I know that's something you don't think is very important, though

12/2/2009 3:09:02 PM

Quote :

"Javi and Mays are not freshmen.....our point guards didn't know what to do"

ok
you didnt call out javi specifically but it was implied

12/2/2009 3:13:21 PM

Well hell then, I wonder why they're paying Ol Roy all that money if he isn't a great coach.

Gotta get my rolly eyes in

12/2/2009 3:18:58 PM

^^^These people act like winning it all is a given at UNC.....it's like saying Pete Carroll is the best coach in NCAA football because he gets the best players. Well I mean that is half of coaching. EVERY player on our roster this year is a Lowe recruit technically.

^^They didn't know what to do....how else can that be said? Once we got down early, that zone played right into their hands. Javi had a decent game but come on he wasn't that good. He missed open shots and drove and forced shots inside. But at least he was trying, Mays was terrible.

[Edited on December 2, 2009 at 3:20 PM. Reason : ...]

12/2/2009 3:19:58 PM

They're paying him a lot of money because he is making them a lot of money, which isn't indicative of his coaching ability.

12/2/2009 3:20:10 PM

okay, what do you use to measure his coaching ability?

12/2/2009 3:21:55 PM

He's a good coach, coaching encompasses a lot and he wins games. He's not a great in-game coach, though. He doesn't make adjustments, he doesn't have great schemes, he just gets the best athletes in the country and tells them to run up and down the court.

12/2/2009 3:23:32 PM

^thats about right actually

12/2/2009 3:25:04 PM

No shit it's right

12/2/2009 3:25:30 PM

Quote :

"I wonder why they're paying Ol Roy all that money if he isn't a great coach. "

because of his Aw Shucks demeanor

12/2/2009 3:31:29 PM

Quote :

"He doesn't make adjustments, he doesn't have great schemes, he just gets the best athletes in the country and tells them to run up and down the court."

#1) He doesn't need to make adjustments or sit on the side and coach them and whistle at them because he's already coached them with what they need to do during practice. They are usually destroying the other team. Why make an adjustment. His players know exactly what is expected of them before they ever step foot on the court.

#2) His uptempo offense is one of the greatest schemes in all of college basketball.

#3) We have much better athletes than those shit ass cupcakes we play against and we don't just run up and down the court on them. Hell we barely break 70. Great coaching by Lowe!

He's a great coach all around no matter how you try and spin it.

[Edited on December 2, 2009 at 3:33 PM. Reason : .]

12/2/2009 3:32:38 PM

^

12/2/2009 3:34:51 PM

he couldn't help them figure out that 1-3-1 zone last night.

12/2/2009 3:39:16 PM

13 turnovers is an acceptable number and we had TONS of open shots we just couldn't knock them down. We got the shots we wanted we just didn't make them that isn't the zone that is just bad shooting.

12/2/2009 3:51:35 PM

Agreed, we had plenty of opportunities to make threes, our players couldn't do it though.

12/2/2009 4:01:39 PM

sidney lowe is officially:

in-credible. as i don't believe him any more.

12/2/2009 4:35:08 PM

Quote :

"13 turnovers is an acceptable number and we had TONS of open shots we just couldn't knock them down. We got the shots we wanted we just didn't make them that isn't the zone that is just bad shooting."

Well, yeah... why would anyone extend a zone against a bunch of dudes who shoot <30% from three. We shot bad because we're a terrible shooting team. Attacking a zone different isn't going to change that. They collapsed to try and shut down Tracy, which will start to happen all season long.

The problem is, I don't know how we'll fare against a decent to good man defense because we have no one who can break down a defense. Tracy will continue to get double-teamed and we just have to pray SOMEONE can hit a jump shot.

12/2/2009 4:47:18 PM

i think a lot of people are vastly overrating the talent on this team

mays would be a marginal athlete at a mid major. smith is our only non-freshman who was a 4 star on scout. javi was in the same class as NWs point guard and they were ranked similarly

lowe isnt a coaching mastermind, we all know that. the idea is that since he's already here we may as well see what he can do when he brings in some real talent at a critical position. if he still cant win, then you can be the first people at the front of the mob demanding to fire his ass

[Edited on December 2, 2009 at 5:14 PM. Reason : ]

12/2/2009 5:13:37 PM

I'm in my DeMatha hat saying, "I love Sid!"

12/2/2009 5:38:09 PM

Quote :

"the idea is that since he's already here we may as well see what he can do when he brings in some real talent"

and damn, people are KILLING Scott over last game. he was 4-4 in the first game, he just had a bad night. cj had a bad one right along with him.

we'll be okay this year, and if we win 20 games we'll be doing something. it fucking sucks, but its just the way it is.

[Edited on December 2, 2009 at 6:14 PM. Reason : .]

12/2/2009 6:12:21 PM

Quote :

"Well, yeah... why would anyone extend a zone against a bunch of dudes who shoot <30% from three. We shot bad because we're a terrible shooting team. Attacking a zone different isn't going to change that. They collapsed to try and shut down Tracy, which will start to happen all season long. The problem is, I don't know how we'll fare against a decent to good man defense because we have no one who can break down a defense. Tracy will continue to get double-teamed and we just have to pray SOMEONE can hit a jump shot."

We do have shooters they just weren't hitting. Wood has a great shot he just wasn't hitting them and they were OPEN (I really think he is going to settle into a serious deep threat) Horner/ Mays/ Gonzo are all decent enough from 3pt that they should take the open shots when they get them CJ Williams I am still not sure about. I am also waaaaaaaaay more worried about a man D from an athletic team but then we have Smith down low who will usually demand a double team and should open up horner for a decent mid range shot which he seems to have.

12/2/2009 6:20:58 PM

I can not believe anyone would argue Roy Williams isn't an amazing coach.

He is an elite coach by any measure.

His uptempo style is unbelievably effective and his secondary fastbreak is the top in the country.

Do you realize he's made FOUR national title games, too many sweet 16's to count, too many ACC/Big 12 regular season titles and conference championships to count...

Give me a fucking break with the "recruits". UNC had been down since '98 until Roy Williams got there. Yes, he gets a huge lift in recruiting by being at UNC but he transforms that into top notch teams. He would put up better results at any school in the country than 99% of coaches out there.

12/2/2009 6:28:07 PM

^His 2005 championship had 4 of those fuckers drafted in the first round. That team was stacked. A lot of coaches would win with that squad


and his 2009 squad had like 3 or 4 people drafted as well

[Edited on December 2, 2009 at 7:41 PM. Reason : misread what you said]

12/2/2009 7:40:06 PM

The only important thing is whether or not he claps in the huddle; it's the mark of a true failure.

12/2/2009 7:43:45 PM

12/2/2009 7:44:18 PM

^^^way to be pedantic.

[Edited on December 2, 2009 at 8:05 PM. Reason : .]

12/2/2009 7:47:48 PM

Hmm

Too close to call

12/2/2009 7:48:17 PM

Quote :

"we'll be okay this year, and if we win 20 games we'll be doing something"

No way in hell we win 20 games this season.

Even with inflated expectations, I was hoping for 18.

After seeing how we played last night, I've downgraded that to 16.

12/2/2009 7:55:24 PM

I'll be your own personal moderator and say you should hope for 17 wins

12/2/2009 7:56:17 PM

how many games do we have this year?

how many ever it is, if we could win exactly half i would consider that a decent year

12/2/2009 8:06:32 PM

^i def think we can do that, possibly make the NIT. the dance is probably a little far-fetched to hope for, but who knows at this point. a lot of things can change between now and march.

12/2/2009 8:23:32 PM

hopes starting to raise ITT...fools still aplenty also ITT

12/2/2009 8:24:43 PM

^^if we make the NCAA tourney with this team we should build Lowe a statue....that is a knock on his recruiting considering it is year four

i really don't think there is any way that we make the tourney or the NIT...a .500 record usually doesn't get you in the NIT b/c that means we will have lost a ton of conf. games b/c we will go into ACC play with a decent record

[Edited on December 2, 2009 at 8:26 PM. Reason : .]

12/2/2009 8:25:44 PM

I bet sidney lowe has a play in the playbook that is centered around javy throwing the ball as hard as he can against the backboard and hoping something comes from it.

12/2/2009 9:05:14 PM

Quote :

"that's not true at all. if we're still here in 4 years and still haven't accomplished anything (made the tournament, done well in the tournament, won or came close to winning the acc, etc), then you can rest assured that i'll be calling for sid's head as well."

if we're still here?????? so you are saying if he finishes bottom 3 this year and next year, we should still wait 2 more years to see if he pulls it out???

Quote :

"and damn, people are KILLING Scott over last game. he was 4-4 in the first game, he just had a bad night. cj had a bad one right along with him."

people are killing him partly b/c others on this board kept on pimping him as a great shooter. great shooters dont go 0-6 from 3 with the looks he got. more likely he is a decent to good shooter which, unfortunately, just isnt going to cut it until we get more talent to take pressure off of him.

now granted, i will eat my words if he shoots 40% from the 3 the rest of the way, just telling you what it looks like right now.

[Edited on December 2, 2009 at 10:00 PM. Reason : a]

12/2/2009 9:57:18 PM

Quote :

"We do have shooters they just weren't hitting. Evtimov has a great shot he just wasn't hitting them and they were OPEN (I really think he is going to settle into a serious deep threat) Atsur/ Sherrill/ Melvin are all decent enough from 3pt that they should take the open shots when they get them Bennerman I am still not sure about. I am also waaaaaaaaay more worried about a man D from an athletic team but then we have Powell down low who will usually demand a double team and should open up Hodge for a decent mid range shot which he seems to have."

12/2/2009 10:23:58 PM

yea i'm not sure what you are trying to show, but that was one of the things that really bugged me about herb: his refusal to use a good big man. it seemed like powell and simmons NEVER got fed in the post.

but that isnt for this thread, so what was your point?

12/2/2009 10:35:27 PM

I don't get his point either and that group of players never actually played with each other.

12/3/2009 2:41:50 PM

Quote :

"and damn, people are KILLING Scott over last game. he was 4-4 in the first game, he just had a bad night"

what game was he 4-4 in?

12/3/2009 4:06:33 PM

^exhibition game against st. pual. but yeah, i can't see how people could be givng a freshman such a hard time a few games into the season. it's stupid.

12/3/2009 4:12:21 PM

i imagine going 4-4 against st pauls is probably about as hard as nailing 4 threes in practice...not much can be drawn from that

though it did make me realize something

Wood from downtown in RBC Center:
2-14

Everywhere else:
5-14 (9-18 counting st pauls)

maybe not ever practicing in our giant ass coliseum is having some effect on his shooting? while 5/14 isnt anything to get excited about, i wouldnt expect much bitching about it either...especially for a freshman

12/3/2009 4:39:33 PM

So I take it they never practice in the RBC? That would only make sense.

[Edited on December 3, 2009 at 5:02 PM. Reason : V did you literally lol?]

12/3/2009 4:51:59 PM

Lol I watched them practicing in the RBC before the UNC football game

12/3/2009 4:59:19 PM

I wonder what percentage of time the basketball court is actually assembled in the RBC Center. Hockey season has to be a big impediment in the team being able to hold all of their practices there.

12/3/2009 5:24:03 PM

I thought I had heard that the team didnt get to practice much there because of the hockey season and other events.

if not, strike that theory...

12/3/2009 5:50:09 PM

sidney lowe will be gone after this year

12/3/2009 5:57:18 PM

JayMcnasty will be wrong after this year

12/3/2009 6:02:53 PM

^^ Looking at our 2010 class so far, he won't be gone until 2-3 years from now

12/3/2009 6:06:55 PM

For all of those people complaining about how he attacked the 1-3-1, what he did would have worked if anyone on our team could hit an outside shot. We missed probably 10 open, good threes. We for the most part did a good job at attempting to spread the zone. Sometimes it didn't work so well because Mays was being an idiot, but that's not a result of how Sid wanted to attack that zone. His idea was to move the ball around until either someone was open on the outside for an easy shot, or Tracy Smith/whoever was our big man had a one-on-one matchup. Every now and then someone would have a nice drive to the basket and miss an easy layup.

12/3/2009 6:50:59 PM

Quote :

"what he did would have worked if anyone on our team could hit an outside shot. We missed probably 10 open, good threes. "

someone covered this, if people arent hitting you have to adjust and find a new way to attack.

also, wood is his recruit and was the main culprit on missing wide open 3's

12/3/2009 9:29:52 PM