page 137

2/10/2012 1:35:47 PM

in reference to message_topic.aspx?topic=623792

anybody else notice he had to cock the hammer before the first shot? i wonder if he always carries in condition 2?

of the ones that carry 1911s (duke and a few others), do any of you carry any other way besides cocked/locked?

2/10/2012 3:52:01 PM

no

2/10/2012 4:14:34 PM

Yes, I noticed that as well. I would think that he was in his backyard, and wasn't really "carrying" anywhere at the time.

2/11/2012 12:15:21 AM

^ Yeah, but it's such a weird state to get a 1911 into...makes me cringe to lower the hammer manually on a chambered round without anything in terms of a safety in the way. Even if you're not truly "carrying", why would you leave it in that state? In terms of home defense, it'd be just as fast to rack the slide and probably safer in either cocked and locked or loaded but unchambered

2/11/2012 1:11:25 AM

When I carry the 1911, I carry it condition 2. Not really sure why other than habit. I've practiced that way and it's a fairly natural motion to cock the hammer prior to the shot. Everything else I carry is some sort of DA or safe-action, so there's probably a little bit of me that mistrusts the gun's comparatively ancient safety features.

2/11/2012 7:55:44 AM

^ How do you decock it after chambering a round? That's what bugs me, seems like you could practice that over and over again and still have a good chance of an ND...hot day and sweaty fingertips, some oil gets on the hammer from cleaning, etc. Personally I always drop the magic, rack the slide to eject the round in the chamber, then drop the hammer.

Maybe I just suck at it, but it seems like we're far more likely to fail at lowering a hammer slowly than even ancient safety designs

2/11/2012 10:23:50 AM

So it sounds like the Tavor is coming to the USA finally. The target price is sub $2k, hopefully. Canada has had them for a while, but late 2012 we'll be getting them too.

2/11/2012 1:34:11 PM

^^ I just grasp the hammer with my left hand, pull the trigger to release the sear, and then lower it. It's not difficult and you'd have to be a total klutz to screw it up. I don't do it action-movie-style with one hand because you can easily slip and drop the hammer with nothing but your thumb trying to lower it.

2/13/2012 2:25:08 PM

I still remember my mom showing me how to de-cock her revolver when she was teaching me to shoot as a child. Never gave it a second thought, and when I used to have a SA/DA .45 I'd always keep it in condition two.

now Mosins, on the other hand...the act of opening the bolt simultaneously cocks the hammer and if I haven't shot it in a while I'm always a little wary of decocking the first time. The internal spring is beastly, the thumb purchase on the hammer is less-than-favorable, and that round will go through a whole, whole lot of things before coming to rest

2/13/2012 2:42:17 PM

why are you decocking a mosin? lol

2/13/2012 2:44:55 PM

I have both of my mosins decocked (sold the 1941 Izzy 91/30)... Why keep the spring under unnecessary stress? I mean, there's really no harm in it since it's probably sat like that for most of it's 70+ year life, but I like going the extra mile to take care of my stuff...



^^ You keep your mosins loaded Jesus man, do you have wild boar roaming inside your home?!

[Edited on February 13, 2012 at 6:54 PM. Reason : .]

2/13/2012 6:52:49 PM

so just pull the trigger on an empty chamber

2/13/2012 6:53:23 PM

Eh. I guess you could do that too

I like to playz wit mah toys tools

2/13/2012 6:54:56 PM

I don't always empty the magazine, and/or end up taking the next shot after clearing/chambering. Especially when I'm shooting around inexperienced people (even relative to me) I ain't gonna leave a rifle like that just sitting a trigger-bump away from a bad day. I also keep it condition 2 at the house, for whatever reason. No kids around, fuggit

^All words aside, that would be the most common reason haha


*I keep all my firearms in that condition, where appropriate, actually. Mostly just in case someone breaks in my house without a gun, I can toss one at him and shoot him without remorse

[Edited on February 13, 2012 at 7:00 PM. Reason : on the real should probably only keep one loaded. at least they're all in a locked cabinet]

[Edited on February 13, 2012 at 7:01 PM. Reason : except the glock by my head]

2/13/2012 6:56:51 PM

Quote :

"of the ones that carry 1911s (duke and a few others), do any of you carry any other way besides cocked/locked?"

I don't carry my 1911, and if I did, I'll be damned if it would be hammer decocked and down on a chambered round! That seems like the worst of all worlds to me.

If my daughter isn't around, I have been known to keep the 1911 cocked and locked on my nightstand, but really, that's just for if I couldn't make it to the closet to grab a 12-gauge.

I have a Kel-Tec P3AT that I bought to carry. I'm inclined to pick up another SIG, too, for winter and stuff when I could conceal something bigger.

2/13/2012 7:28:43 PM

I don't carry a 1911 but if I did it would be cocked and locked. 1911s were designed to be carried that way. I don't like manually decocking any gun, especially a 1911. They have no transfer bar or firing pin block. I'd carry in condition 3 before I carried in 2.

What are yall's reasons for condition 2?
I've known 1 or 2 guys who carried that way and I'm pretty sure it's because they didn't trust themselves.

2/13/2012 9:13:32 PM

Condition 1 (or zero) for me.
I don't carry my 1911 very often but it is cocked and locked when I do. I don't even have a problem carrying a 1911 cocked and unlocked(?). The half-cock notch will stop if before the safety will in a drop situation.

2/13/2012 10:17:33 PM

I've been told that manually releasing the hammer can cause issues with the "fingers" on the sear springs.the guy explaining it to me said it's actually better to dry fire a 1911 than to lower the hammer manually.

2/14/2012 12:30:06 AM

Quote :

"I've been told that manually releasing the hammer can cause issues with the "fingers" on the sear springs.the guy explaining it to me said it's actually better to dry fire a 1911 than to lower the hammer manually."

Never heard that before. I've got a pretty good understanding of the innards of a 1911 and I don't see how manually decocking one can be bad. I'd be interested in the reasoning.

In pistol sports they want you to decock a gun by pulling the trigger after unloading it. It has nothing to do with durability issues; it's done to show that there isn't a round left in the chamber. I if that has anything to do with his reasoning.

The only thing you shouldn't really do with a 1911 and most autos is let the slide go into battery at full force on an empty chamber. Chambering a round slows down the slide. Doing it empty means there isn't any resistance and all of the force of the slide moving forward is put on the slide stop pin. A few times is fine, but do it regularly and you'll break the pin.

2/14/2012 12:52:10 AM

Quote :

"A few times is fine, but do it regularly and you'll break the pin. "

Unless it's a glock, amirite?

[Edited on February 14, 2012 at 8:13 AM. Reason : .]

2/14/2012 8:13:20 AM

Urite

2/14/2012 10:05:56 AM

^^Yes, a Glock could probably withstand all the full force slide slamming you cared to do.
I still wouldn't do it because there's really no need to.

2/14/2012 10:22:08 AM

Anyone in here know about diamond coatings (DLC) for firearms? I do this work, but not for firearms (yet).

I found this passage when doing some quick research, which was interesting:

Quote :

"I have a buddy who had his Colt 1911 refinished in DLC and I can tell you it is a tough finish. We put a lot of rounds through our guns and after thousands of rounds through his Colt there are literally no signs of wear on the frame rails and other high friction parts."

2/14/2012 10:27:11 AM

what is a good price on a colt delta elite NIB if i were to buy from a private seller?

anything i should be aware of regarding these new production models?

ive been drooling over them for awhile-

2/14/2012 12:59:23 PM

I hear the new models are especially susceptible to drool-induced corrosion, but as long as you wipe up afterwards you should be fine

2/14/2012 1:06:28 PM

haha, no i thought that was kimber products

2/14/2012 1:18:15 PM

So I have another class coming up on February 25th and 26th.

Devensive Concepts NC (http://defensiveconceptsnc.com/)

Defensive Handgun- Nearly all violent attacks occur at 'social' distances. The Defensive Handgun course will expose students to handgun manipulation, marksmanship fundamentals and tactics using minimal classroom time and extensive live fire exercises. This course will provide concerned citizens with the skills and tactics necessary to gain a significant advantage over aggressive attackers during life-threatening encounters.
Day 1: 600 rounds

Handgun Retention- The Handgun Retention course focuses on providing students with the tools needed to defeat an attacker's attempt to gain control of the student's handgun during a lethal force encounter. Methods of retaining the handgun while drawn and holstered will be covered during the course. Material covered will be striking and grappling based. A block of instruction on close range shooting techniques will also be taught. This is a physically demanding course. Potential students should be aware that they will be striking pads, performing standing and ground-based grappling techniques, and other physical tasks.
The course will take place outside and ground-based techniques will be on taught and practiced on the range. The material being taught has been successfully used by military, law enforcement and concerned citizens during lethal force encounters. Tactics focus on the use of proper body mechanics and mindset instead of pure strength in order to insure the greatest number of citizens can use the material during an actual hostile encounter.
Day 2: 200 rounds

I have taken a 2 Day Defensive Carbine course with them already, and look forward to seeing what I can learn from this course.

Last year I attended 40 hours of professional training, and I'm aiming for 80 hours this year. The course blurbs don't sound super exciting but I know that the AARs and pictures from previous attendees look like a lot more fun.

I'm going to try and have my bullet proof camera set up at these classes to, to get some decent video of what I'm doing. (literally, bullet resistant lexan housing for my camcorder or camera)

2/14/2012 8:28:06 PM

scrap 2x4 and a leftover piece of stainless condenser tube my dad bought as scrap from work several years ago. cost less than $5 for some cheap chain, some eye screws, and some quick links.

[Edited on February 14, 2012 at 9:31 PM. Reason : uih]

2/14/2012 9:20:24 PM

excellent! i need to get more pictures of my toys on here...

2/15/2012 8:54:06 AM

^^Outstanding.

2/15/2012 9:45:27 AM

anyone in the charlotte area going to the gun show this weekend? just looking for a possible wolf webber to shoot the shit with, right now looks like everyone is bailing on me

2/15/2012 10:57:04 PM

nm, metrolina expo.

don't know if i'll make it out there or not. probably don't need to be buying any toys

2/16/2012 8:55:34 AM

the wife an I are taking our concealed carry class this Saturday at Learn to Shoot NC. looking forward to it!!

2/16/2012 9:59:12 AM

Shoulda done the concealed carry with Rush!!

2/16/2012 10:07:00 AM

so i've been thinking about getting a revolver. would like something to double as concealed carry too i think. have been reading into the LCR. anyone have personal experience?

2/16/2012 11:10:02 AM

i think i'm going to do C&C soon

2/16/2012 11:27:38 AM

i've got a friend with an LCR. nothing wrong with it at all if that's what feels good to you. the fit and finish isn't as good as the S&W 642 Airweight, but the LCR doesn't cost quite as much.

2/16/2012 8:18:29 PM

My uncle has one. He thinks highly of it.

A friend wants to get a nice scope for his new .30-06 anyone have one for sale? (also posted in the used gun thread)

[Edited on February 16, 2012 at 8:29 PM. Reason : .]

2/16/2012 8:25:41 PM

I have an LCR for sale. I like it a lot, but I shoot better with a glock.

if you live in the raleigh area, you could try it out at a range

[Edited on February 16, 2012 at 8:29 PM. Reason : .]

2/16/2012 8:28:58 PM

Finally had time to place an order for a SIG232; and hoping this guy doesn't flake on buying my G27 tomorrow.

2/16/2012 8:55:35 PM

^^ glock triggers are completely different. Most if not all people will shoot better with a glock than ANY DAO revolver.

2/16/2012 11:42:53 PM

Quote :

"Most if not all people will shoot better with a glock than ANY DAO revolver."

I must be in the minority. I shoot my GP-100 better than my 22. I shoot my LCP better than my 22.

2/17/2012 12:10:33 AM

this might be a stupid question but bear with me-

i dont know WHERE i saw this, possibly the hunter safety course i was required to take in HS?

but it was a shooting stance for rifles and i cannot find an illustration or description of it anywhere. ive used it before and it was somewhat neat, very old school.

im going to try my best to describe it and hopefully someone can shed some light on it.



assuming youre right handed, imagine taking your left hand and grasping your right wrist or forearm, i suppose it depends how long your arms are. your right hand is holding the grip of the gun, and the forearm of the weapon is in the crook of your left arm.

does this make sense to anyone?

sorry for the n00bness-

2/17/2012 9:19:56 AM

I know what you are talking about. I think you'll find that to be a very poor position in terms of stability; it's better suited to using your scope to glass a large area, as fatigue will be quick.

2/17/2012 9:48:05 AM

^^What do you think about the GP100 vs. SW 686. I'm thinking of purchasing my first revolver.

2/17/2012 10:07:19 AM

old school GI sling used as a hasty sling or loop sling is your best bet for stable offhand shots

check out the old M1 Garand training videos on youtube

2/17/2012 10:15:57 AM

^^^ any idea what its called?

[Edited on February 17, 2012 at 10:17 AM. Reason : -]

2/17/2012 10:17:21 AM

Quote :

"^^What do you think about the GP100 vs. SW 686. I'm thinking of purchasing my first revolver."

The two are comparable in mechanical quality and you probably won't find a difference in inherent accuracy. The 686 has very good fit and finish while the GP-100 is just good. IMO the 686 looks better too.

The 686 trigger will be slightly lighter and smoother out of the box but the GP can be made at least as light and smooth as the 686 with a cheap spring change and dry firing or light stoning. I've swapped the springs and stoned the parts in my GP-100 and SRH and they're smoother than any new field grade S&W. Aside from weight and smoothness there is still a difference between the triggers. The S&W trigger has less travel and stacks a little bit more before it breaks while the GP has a little bit longer travel but more consistent weight through the pull. Some people (I'm included) like the shorter travel. The GP trigger is perfectly fine though.
In SA S&Ws tend to be a little bit crisper but not by much.

The fit, finish, and triggers are the biggest differences.
A somewhat big difference is durability. Both are durable, but the GP will typically handle more full power handloads before the timing and endshake gets out of whack. However, it's been proven that the 686 can handle a higher proof load before you get a kB. This shouldn't matter to anyone because you shouldn't be pushing either gun to those stupid high pressures, but some people think it's a benefit in case you double charge a handload. That's not an issue to me because I don't load with powders that allow a double charge and I'm pretty confident in my handloading procedures.

Another small difference is the cylinder release. You push the GP's inward vs the 686's forward sliding release.

So...to sum it up you should get the 686 if you like paying a lot more for a little bit better fit and finish and a different (not necessarily better) trigger.
You should get the GP-100 if you plan on shooting a whole lot of full power loads.

Personally if the 686 was just $50 more I'd buy it, but they're usually $150-200 more. At that price difference the GP-100 easily makes me perfectly happy.

BTW, if you don't plan on hunting (minimum is 5.5 inches for legal hunting) or if you plan on carrying it then get a 4" model. My GP is a 6" and it's a little cumbersome but the extra length is nice on the range.

2/17/2012 11:09:43 AM

Quote :

"BTW, if you don't plan on hunting (minimum is 5.5 inches for legal hunting) or if you plan on carrying it then get a 4" model. My GP is a 6" and it's a little cumbersome but the extra length is nice on the range."

that is no longer correct

Quote :

"Pistols ? During the open hunting season for rabbits, squirrels, opossums, raccoons, furbearing animals and legal nongame animals and birds, these species may be taken with a pistol. There are no restrictions on caliber and barrel length. ? A hunter or trapper lawfully taking wildlife by another method may use a pistol to dispatch the animal or bird taken, except as noted below. ? Pistols may not be carried during the bow-and-arrow and muzzle - loader deer hunting seasons, except for big game retrieval. ? Deer, bear and wild boar may be taken with a handgun during the established gun hunting season provided that the handgun is not less than .24-caliber. Muzzleloading pistols are not legal for hunting. ? It is unlawful to hunt or take wild turkeys with pistols."

http://www.ncwildlife.org/Portals/0/Regs/Documents/2011-12/2011-12_Hunting.pdf

[Edited on February 17, 2012 at 11:51 AM. Reason : no barrel length restrictions]

2/17/2012 11:50:29 AM