LOLS. That probably should get it's own thread.

The "Restoring Honor" rally is not specifically religious, but I'd wager there'll be some prayin' going on. I'm curious what logic "civil rights leaders" are using to criticize his choice of date and venue. I mean, if it was a KKK rally or something, sure.

8/18/2010 9:13:18 AM

yeah its worth its own thread

8/18/2010 9:59:38 AM

Quote :

"We're Americans, for fuck's sake. Offending people is practically a way of life over here. Let's suck it up and quit producing free propaganda for al Qaeda."

In other words: Offend whomever you like, except fanatical Muslims.

8/18/2010 10:24:02 AM

Americans who oppose this Mosque are disgraceful cowards.

8/18/2010 10:37:02 AM

Blanket statement is wrong.

8/18/2010 10:41:29 AM

You are wrong. Come again, try again.

Don't give a fuck about your middle schooler's position on religion, either, so peddle your self-serving, masturbatory "I finally get it..." shit somewhere else. We all grew up sometime in the course of the last 10 years here, do yours on some other message board.

Edit: Thought you were a newbie, checked your reg date. Guess you're just an unmemorable white-noise poster who finally grew the stones to vent his stupid opinions in TSB. Congrats! Now fuck off.

Edit2: Suddenly unsure I'm not confusing you with some other shitty d* poster. Don't even care enough to click back one page to verify this.

[Edited on August 18, 2010 at 10:58 AM. Reason : .]

8/18/2010 10:51:53 AM

Speaking of white noise.

8/18/2010 10:58:16 AM

Yes it's you, a person who literally no accomplishments of worth under his belt. Fuck off, bigot. Get the fuck out of my country, it's supposed to have standards and ideals. You heard of them?

8/18/2010 10:59:13 AM

k

8/18/2010 11:00:12 AM

Right-wingers in this thread revealing that they don't have the balls, the brains, or the character to live in a free country of laws. Freedom takes tolerance and character, something you fucking buffoons lack.

8/18/2010 11:00:22 AM

Tolerate me, McDanger. Show some character.

8/18/2010 11:03:10 AM

Is this where I post a whargarbl pic or something?

8/18/2010 11:07:02 AM

Couldn't hurt.

8/18/2010 11:12:32 AM

McDanger, you're constantly feigning outrage, totally unable to reason or understand your (alleged) opponent's positions, and always on a high horse. Just get out already, it's impossible to take anything you say seriously.

8/18/2010 11:24:18 AM

with every passing day, McDanger credibility sinks that much lower.

only a Sith deals in absolutes.

8/18/2010 11:24:53 AM

With each passing day, America's credibility sinks even lower.

We're a nation of fucking immigrants, yet each new wave has to put up with the same bullshit demonization. You guys might be involved in this one, but rather than sit it out, I'd rather make you uncomfortable while you do it. If you want to hate in peace, start a PM thread.

[Edited on August 18, 2010 at 11:34 AM. Reason : Do whatever you want, but I'm going to side with history (and what's right).]

Haha a poli sci major from NC State is trying to tell me I shouldn't be taken seriously. Hold on a second while I laugh it out.

[Edited on August 18, 2010 at 11:36 AM. Reason : .]

8/18/2010 11:33:35 AM

not one person has argued legality. there is a clear distinction being made with some great points on both sides. quit pretending like we are rounding up Muslims and tagging their ears.

8/18/2010 11:36:38 AM

I'm not pretending that. And not a single "great point" has been raised on the pro-bigot side.

The pro-bigots are even empirically wrong on this one, seeing as how <50% of Manhattan residents oppose the Mosque. This is everybody else in America doing what Americans do best: making everything about themselves.

[Edited on August 18, 2010 at 11:39 AM. Reason : .]

8/18/2010 11:37:24 AM

lol@ your usage of 'empirically' in that statement.

85% of Americans describe themselves as believers in the supernatural. Are they empirically correct?

8/18/2010 11:45:38 AM

the opposition's point is that it is insensitive and inappropriate. that is a reasonable point, regardless of how you may feel about it.

this is from the USA Today, today...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-08-18-mosque-ny-ground-zero_N.htm?csp=34news

Quote :

"The Siena College poll showed 63% of New York voters surveyed oppose the project, with 27% supporting it. That compares with 64% opposed and 28% in favor two weeks earlier, results that are within the polls' sampling margins. In a new question, the latest poll found that many New Yorkers believe the project is protected by the Constitution, even if they oppose the plan. Nearly two-thirds of voters, 64%, say the developers have a constitutional right to build the mosque. 28% say they do not. Among those who oppose building the mosque, about half agree that developers have the constitutional right to build it. 28% of mosque opponents say they do not have that right."

[Edited on August 18, 2010 at 11:47 AM. Reason : code cleaning]

8/18/2010 11:46:33 AM

I guess this blind black Democratic governor is also a bigot?

Paterson Wants Mosque Meeting?
18 hours ago

Quote :

"Paterson said last week he would consider offering state land as an alternative site for the project. The governor says he would like to see this meeting take place sometime this week."

http://tinyurl.com/28uvgjs

8/18/2010 12:21:28 PM

Quote :

"I guess this blind black Democratic governor is also a bigot?"

Yes.

8/18/2010 12:26:54 PM

Quote :

"85% of Americans describe themselves as believers in the supernatural. Are they empirically correct?"

Hey guess what you're wrong as fuck.

I brought up their opinion because the right has been on a "THINK OF THE POOR NYCers WHO OBVIOUSLY SHARE MY FOOLISH HATRED" kick. Turns out that's not even true. Where's my slide whistle when I need it?

8/18/2010 12:28:08 PM

Quote :

"the opposition's point is that it is insensitive and inappropriate. that is a reasonable point, regardless of how you may feel about it. "

based

on

what

8/18/2010 12:29:00 PM

So whats the plan to stop the mosque without government involvement?

Pressure government officials to come up with some shitty compromise (see above)?

Protest, Harass, or intimidate until they decide building it is not worth the effort?



I found these options too:

Sue their pants off (Pat Robertson's idea?)
http://www.wbng.com/news/state/Lawsuit-Filed-To-Stop-Ground-Zero-Mosque-Plan-100033379.html



Use Eminent Domain to seize the property from them (an idea from a tea party candidate lol!!!)
http://iamtheteaparty.net/news/paladino-has-plan-to-stop-the-911-mosque







[Edited on August 18, 2010 at 12:46 PM. Reason : lots of gems on the internetz these days]

8/18/2010 12:31:57 PM

I guess if I were a person protesting this particular mosque, I would hope that pressure from the neighborhood and the negative PR would be enough to persuade its relocation.

I obviously cant speak for anyone other than myself, but any rational thinking person with half a brain understands that legislation is not the answer, nor is legislation prudent in this case. that would be clear affront the Constitution.

8/18/2010 12:49:16 PM

^x5 On what do you base your position (other than the mosque issue)?

8/18/2010 12:55:58 PM

^^I understand and can respect your position, I think a majority of those opposed hold a similar viewpoint.

But someone needs to do a better job at distancing people like yourself from the crazies that want to sieze their property, sue, etc.


Also, I don't think protestor pressure is going to be enough. I could be wrong but I think people will forget about this in about another two weeks when the media finds some other non-issue story to latch on to.

[Edited on August 18, 2010 at 1:10 PM. Reason : carats]

[Edited on August 18, 2010 at 1:13 PM. Reason : .]

8/18/2010 1:10:11 PM

Quote :

"Haha a poli sci major from NC State is trying to tell me I shouldn't be taken seriously. Hold on a second while I laugh it out."

What's even funnier is a math major/computer scientist spewing their ignorant opinion and acting like anyone should give a damn. You don't even bother to debate here. You just put your fingers in your ears and say, "fuck you, you're wrong, but I can't tell you why."

You have the gall to say, "anyone that opposes this mosque in any way is a bigot." You are most certainly wrong, because we have cited examples of people that may oppose the building of the mosque and are not in any way a bigot, by any definition of the word. You probably pride yourself on being extremely intelligent and progressive, but if you believe some of the things you've posted in this thread, you're the worst kind of idiot.

8/18/2010 1:16:30 PM

This mosque will get bombed.

8/18/2010 1:18:18 PM

It would be ironic if middle eastern extremists bombed the site because it housed Muslim Americans.

8/18/2010 1:43:25 PM

Quote :

"But someone needs to do a better job at distancing people like yourself from the crazies that want to sieze their property, sue, etc. "

I dunno...the vast majority of the dissent I have heard/read towards the building of this mosque is the same thing...ie the recognition of its legality and opposition for emotional reasons. it is definitely the fringe loons calling for seizure of property.

[Edited on August 18, 2010 at 2:08 PM. Reason : clarify]

8/18/2010 2:07:10 PM

Quote :

"What's even funnier is a math major/computer scientist spewing their ignorant opinion and acting like anyone should give a damn. You don't even bother to debate here. You just put your fingers in your ears and say, "fuck you, you're wrong, but I can't tell you why." You have the gall to say, "anyone that opposes this mosque in any way is a bigot." You are most certainly wrong, because we have cited examples of people that may oppose the building of the mosque and are not in any way a bigot, by any definition of the word. You probably pride yourself on being extremely intelligent and progressive, but if you believe some of the things you've posted in this thread, you're the worst kind of idiot."

Oh yes your wonderfully nuanced position evades the reason why literally everybody else is protesting it

Go pound rocks together you fucking chump. You will never do anything important.

8/18/2010 2:09:44 PM

Seriously -- the lot of you come in here to "play the liberal's word games". You don't understand logic, causal reasoning, statistics, anything about public policy, haven't read any ethics, don't understand the difference between rhetoric and logic, and I'm supposed to "keep my cool" and play this stupid masturbatory back-and-forth that confers no benefit whatsoever?

No thanks, I'll fling poo up front and be honest about it rather than you dishonest little chimps, putting on airs as if you know your ass from a hole in the ground.

8/18/2010 2:13:53 PM

what if there is a Muslim against the building of the mosque at GZ. is that Muslim then a bigot?

8/18/2010 2:14:48 PM

^^ That argument gets pretty old, McDanger. When your position is threatened, you always fall back on the "YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND MATH!!1" thing.

It's just played out, man. Furthermore, you don't even get that it's also elitist and esoteric.

8/18/2010 2:29:14 PM

Quote :

"Haha a poli sci major from NC State is trying to tell me I shouldn't be taken seriously. Hold on a second while I laugh it out."

Hey man, fuck you. I'm a goddamn poli sci major from NC State and I'm proud of it.

Quote :

"At the very least, though, you are responsible for perpetuating a belief that does lead people to do bad things, whether it's waste money on tithes, vote for politicians based on religious motivations (i.e. vote for pro-life and anti-gay candidates, with no regard for any other issues), show disrespect for people that don't fit specific biblical criteria, or any other negative behavior."

Perpetuating? When have I tried to convert anybody? All I ask is that I get to do my own thing and be left alone doing it. One would expect some sympathy from a Libertarian but I guess that only goes so far.

Paying tithes is no more a waste of money than paying for therapy. All beliefs have led to bad things because it doesn't matter what you believe if you're just naturally a dick. Stupid people will always vote for stupid reasons. And members of groups will always disrespect members of other groups.

8/18/2010 2:30:43 PM

Quote :

"Hey man, fuck you. I'm a goddamn poli sci major from NC State and I'm proud of it."

Word

Quote :

"what if there is a Muslim against the building of the mosque at GZ. is that Muslim then a bigot?"

Maybe just an idiot instead

It's not a "Ground Zero" mosque anymore than the strip club 2 blocks away is the Ground Zero stripclub.

[Edited on August 18, 2010 at 3:06 PM. Reason : .]

8/18/2010 3:05:50 PM

I'm kind of glad I just moved out of NYC

its too much of a magnet for retards from all walks of life

8/18/2010 3:08:56 PM

Quote :

"Hey man, fuck you. I'm a goddamn poli sci major from NC State and I'm proud of it."

As far as I'm concerned, any degree from NC State should be held with pride. Even MBAs.

Quote :

"Paying tithes is no more a waste of money than paying for therapy."

If we're talking about psychotherapy that is backed by science and not quakery then I couldn't possibly agree with you. Funneling money into an institution vested in maintaining faith as a virtue is almost a complete waste of money. Maybe some small fraction of that comes back to help someone sure, but it hurts us in the long run by keeping the faith going.

Spending money to improve your emotional state with proven methods does not seem like a waste of money.

If it's psychotherapy based on bullshit, then yeah, complete waste of money. Probably *worse* than tithing on a small scale, even.

Quote :

"All beliefs have led to bad things because it doesn't matter what you believe if you're just naturally a dick. Stupid people will always vote for stupid reasons. And members of groups will always disrespect members of other groups."

"Because other things suck" is not a good enough reason for me to not oppose something that sucks. Actions based on beliefs that have no scientific basis are inherently worse than ones that have a basis in reality because we exist in reality. Yes, bad things will continue to happen were religion gone, but there would be one less schism between us, and at least people would demand proof for something before crashing a plane into a crowded building on its behalf. That has to be worth something (it's worth everything in my book).

8/18/2010 3:16:31 PM

Jon Stewart's been killing this issue.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-august-10-2010/municipal-land-use-hearing-update

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-16-2010/mosque-erade

8/18/2010 4:29:35 PM

Quote :

"Spending money to improve your emotional state with proven methods does not seem like a waste of money."

My experience with church has proven that it improves my emotional state. I assume that most other churchgoers have about the same position, or they'd sleep in on Sundays and certainly not hand over money.

Quote :

"Yes, bad things will continue to happen were religion gone, but there would be one less schism between us"

I don't like "removing schisms" as a motivation, if only because it seems to imply that your ideal world would be one in which everybody was the same. That doesn't appeal to me, even if schisms mean that some (perhaps all) people are going to be wrong about a lot of things.

8/19/2010 1:32:02 AM

I guess we can add DNC Chair Howard Dean to the growing list of Democratic "bigots," right?

Howard Dean: NYC Mosque a "Real Affront"
August 18, 2010

Quote :

"Former Democratic presidential candidate and Vermont governor Howard Dean, a hero to many liberals, has called efforts to build an Islamic community center two blocks from the site of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks 'a real affront to people who lost their lives.' 'That site doesn't belong to any particular religion, it belongs to all Americans and all faiths,' he said. Dean, speaking on New York's WABC-AM radio, said he would like to see a compromise on the issue - one that includes moving the Islamic center to another site."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20014057-503544.html

8/19/2010 3:22:34 AM

Quote :

"Yes it's you, a person who literally no accomplishments of worth under his belt."

Quote :

"You will never do anything important."

Tell us about your accomplishments, McDanger. I'm ready to be impressed.

(and when you're finished, you can tell me about mine)

[Edited on August 19, 2010 at 9:01 AM. Reason : ]

8/19/2010 8:57:12 AM

Quote :

"My experience with church has proven that it improves my emotional state. I assume that most other churchgoers have about the same position, or they'd sleep in on Sundays and certainly not hand over money."

Except in addition to improving your emotional state, you're supporting an institution that continues to extol faith as a virtue, creating generation after generation of people that refuse to demand proof to justify their beliefs. You teach your children that believing in something without proof is OK and then mysticism continues unabated. ("You" being metaphorical for religious persons in general)

Church might make some people happy, but it is almost certainly false. We should value truth more highly. There are plenty of reasons to be happy that don't require the immense hubris of believing that an infinitely cosmic being is watching out for you personally.

I know your stance is very much "live and let live". I can appreciate that. The day that unscientific beliefs stop fucking with society, I'll let them live. I'm pretty sure that won't happen in my lifetime, but that doesn't discourage me from using my life to work toward it.

Quote :

"I don't like "removing schisms" as a motivation, if only because it seems to imply that your ideal world would be one in which everybody was the same. That doesn't appeal to me, even if schisms mean that some (perhaps all) people are going to be wrong about a lot of things."

My ideal world is where schisms between cultures aren't based on fairy tales. I think people should have a better reason to affect other people than "my imaginary friend told me to do it". I'm not saying everyone should be the same. There's a lot more to each culture on this planet than mystical belief and we certainly would not be the same were religion to disappear.

I'm not implying that we need remove all schisms to achieve perfection. Only the ones that are based on mystical beliefs.

8/19/2010 9:32:52 AM

McDanger's List of Bigots

Harry Reid
Howard Dean
54 percent of Democrats polled
70 percent of independents polled
70 percent of Americans polled
Every conservative on TWW, in the world, and that ever existed
Anyone who disagrees with McDanger

8/19/2010 10:16:17 AM

+ lazarus (I'm no conservative, thank you)

8/19/2010 10:49:20 AM

I'm actually encouraged by the possibility that roughly 1/3 of Americans are not completely a dick about Islam.

8/19/2010 10:57:12 AM

Yeah, except for the last one, that list is pretty accurate.

8/19/2010 11:01:49 AM

^^ Ah, the glass half full. How refreshing.

^ Anyone who disagrees with McDanger about the mosque then?

[Edited on August 19, 2010 at 11:03 AM. Reason : .]

8/19/2010 11:01:56 AM