Reality?

4/3/2012 9:06:20 PM

Quote :

" reality |re'al?te| noun ( pl. realities ) 1 the world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them: he refuses to face reality | Laura was losing touch with reality. • a thing that is actually experienced or seen, esp. when this is grim or problematic: the harsh realities of life in a farming community | the law ignores the reality of the situation. • a thing that exists in fact, having previously only existed in one's mind: the paperless office may yet become a reality. • the quality of being lifelike or resembling an original: the reality of Marryat's detail. • [ as modifier ] relating to reality TV: a reality show. 2 the state or quality of having existence or substance: youth, when death has no reality. • Philosophy existence that is absolute, self-sufficient, or objective, and not subject to human decisions or conventions. PHRASES in reality in actual fact (used to contrast a false idea of what is true or possible with one that is more accurate): she had believed she could control these feelings, but in reality that was not so easy. the reality is —— used to assert that the truth of a matter is not what one would think or expect: the popular view of the Dobermann is of an aggressive guard dog—the reality is very different. ORIGIN late 15th cent.: via French from medieval Latin realitas, from late Latin realis ‘relating to things’ (see real1)"

4/3/2012 9:17:44 PM

Zimmerman is just as white as Obama

4/3/2012 9:40:56 PM

Lifesavers > skittles thats why he got killed

4/4/2012 2:12:42 PM

"fucking cold" not "fucking coon"??

4/6/2012 8:04:59 AM

It wasn't cold.

He's claiming he said punks.

4/6/2012 10:03:14 AM

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/nbc_news_fires_producer_of_edited_TA2oXIrhZJ3OYkNXJ3sPUL

When was the last time fox fired someone for presenting misleading information...?

4/7/2012 12:00:31 PM

Isn't that their job though?

4/7/2012 8:35:03 PM

NBC is just using that guy as a scapegoat. No way that decision was made at that level.

4/8/2012 1:09:38 PM

meanwhile, news stations all over the country continue to show pictures of Trayvon as an 11-year old, in order to gin up more sympathy for him

4/8/2012 2:33:33 PM

yeah, damn that black kid for getting killed, what a victim mentality

4/8/2012 9:04:26 PM

IT BEGINS.

4/10/2012 5:06:35 PM

Quote :

"The two attorneys who have been representing George Zimmerman announced at a press conference moments ago that they are withdrawing as his legal counsel. "On Sunday, we lost track of George, in that he would not return our calls," attorney Hal Uhrig said. Said attorney Craig Sonner, "I've lost contact with him at this point.""

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-press-conference-20120410,0,4146078.story

4/10/2012 5:22:43 PM

Did he do the right thing and shoot himself?

4/10/2012 5:37:04 PM

Whether he did anything wrong or not, it makes sense that he would have skipped town. People want his head.

...or he got murdered.

[Edited on April 10, 2012 at 5:38 PM. Reason : ]

4/10/2012 5:37:58 PM

It makes sense to lay low, yes.

It however doesn't make sense to stop talking to your lawyers, to talk to the prosectuor without legal counsel, or to talk to Sean hannity.

Zimmermans judgement had always been questionable and this just escalates that trend.

4/10/2012 6:27:26 PM

It really wouldn't surprise me at this point if something happened to him.

4/10/2012 7:04:52 PM

^i guess you'll be the first to mourn him.

4/10/2012 7:25:50 PM

They couldn't contact him for 2 days, so they completely dropped him. Is 2 whole days really justification for totally dropping him as legal counsel? Maybe the dude had stomach flu or took too much Ambien or some shit.

4/10/2012 9:35:55 PM

I don't think it was just because they couldn't contact him.

I think it was because he wasn't doing anything they told him to do.

I would almost be willing to bet his website was against their recommendation (he has pictures there supporting vandalism-- not a bright move).

4/10/2012 10:04:37 PM

He knows he'll never get a fair trial and is a dead man walking as a free man anyway.

4/10/2012 11:56:04 PM

He probably wouldn't have had to serve time with a manslaughter conviction.

If he has indeed fled, he's an idiot.

4/11/2012 12:37:15 AM

As little as 1 hour in prison is a death sentence. He's correct in running.

4/11/2012 1:03:32 AM

Quote :

"I think it was because he wasn't doing anything they told him to do. I would almost be willing to bet his website was against their recommendation (he has pictures there supporting vandalism-- not a bright move)."

Sure, but that wasn't the reason they gave. Why the fuck give a press conference at all?

Oh and I just checked out his website (first time it's been up for me). http://therealgeorgezimmerman.com

Goddamn what a disaster. Not only is this one of the worst designed websites I could imagine (paragraphs with no padding, an American flag background making text unreadable, the URL of the website right below the URL in the address bar, circa 1998 hit counter, etc.).... but there's no fucking content at all. He has a "facts" page and then completely fails to deliver any facts. The stupid quotes are unbearable.

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 9:09 AM. Reason : asdfasdfsda]

4/11/2012 9:00:55 AM

They probably dropped him for other reasons but came up with the excuse that he didn't return calls. He wouldn't follow their advice, they decide to drop him, call him at an odd hour with an urgent message to return their call, give him an hour, then dropped him as a client because "he dropped out of contact". Either that or, you know:



Maybe they thought the lost contact excuse would maintain their professionalism more than the real reason. Lawyers lie, that's their job.

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 10:19 AM. Reason : -]

4/11/2012 10:15:48 AM

Looks like he will be charged. Press conference at 6PM.
Not sure why it took so long. This case is textbook "Negligent Homicide" (assuming I have my terms straight) at the very minimum.

4/11/2012 3:58:28 PM

He'll probably be charged with 2nd degree murder and take a plea bargain to something substantially less. Prosecution will have a damn hard time making a case and Zimmerman would, frankly, be crazy to let it go to a jury. No one will be happy with the outcome.

4/11/2012 4:04:58 PM

I'm personally pleased with a real investigation and a trial and this is all the parents and any public figure has wanted really.

4/11/2012 4:15:17 PM

Its somewhere between manslaughter and murder 2.

If you are carrying you cannot initiate or escalate a confrontation and then claim self defense if you then draw.

4/11/2012 4:25:19 PM

^thats what common sense would lead you to believe, but it seems floridas laws might have tossed common sense out the window.

4/11/2012 4:34:59 PM

Eh, if you initiate a confrontation and then the other guy goes nuts you can still claim self defense. If I shove you and you respond by pulling a knife and come after me I am justified in shooting you in self defense.

4/11/2012 4:53:57 PM

^according to the old CCW video here, it's only if you try to back out of the fight and the other guy keeps coming with his knife.

4/11/2012 5:09:20 PM

^Not in Florida.

4/11/2012 5:12:14 PM

charged w/2nd degree murder

4/11/2012 6:24:38 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/11/opinion/granderson-violence-race/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

(the video he is referencing is from this past week where a white kid was assaulted in Baltimore by a group of black kids)

Quote :

"That's where much of the focus will inevitably go instead of to what I think is far more important, and that is what blacks think about ourselves. I don't need to tell you what the response from the black community would be if the victim in the Baltimore video was black and the assailants white. But for some reason many blacks puree crimes of this nature through some warped situational ethics filter, which in the end only makes a mockery of the community more than it empowers it. For if President Obama had a son, he would look like Trayvon, but he would also look like one of the assailants in that video. That's the uncomfortable truth that the black community must deal with: Racism still hurts us, but not nearly as much as we hurt ourselves."

4/11/2012 7:42:11 PM

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 7:50 PM. Reason : ASDFADSF]

4/11/2012 7:50:26 PM

^^that guy wasn't killed and the cops didnt catch the suspects and let them go free...

trayvon martin was killed and the police let the killer go... so what's your point?

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 7:50 PM. Reason : ...]

4/11/2012 7:50:40 PM

^ It's weird how some people think people are upset merely because a white-ish person killed a black person. It's like they don't realize that it's not the skin colors that have outraged people in this case, it was the fact that the police let a murder go unpunished.

4/11/2012 8:09:59 PM

His race will be Zimmerman's biggest problem in prison. He's too American to join the mexican gangs for protection, too dark-skinned to make it in the Aryan brotherhood. He won't last a week in general population.

4/11/2012 8:24:30 PM

I bet he gets off with time served.

Which would mean he wouldn't spend a night in prison, just jail.

4/11/2012 8:39:28 PM

Holy overcharging, batman.
*unless there's a lot more to it than I realize.

**maybe this is their weird, high-stakes way of bowing to public pressure while ensuring no conviction?

4/11/2012 9:33:28 PM

^ there's discussion in the other thread bout that:
http://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=624805&page=48#15338396

4/11/2012 9:55:42 PM

Quote :

" ^ It's weird how some people think people are upset merely because a white-ish person killed a black person. It's like they don't realize that it's not the skin colors that have outraged people in this case, it was the fact that the police let a murder go unpunished. "

Some of us also get mad that certain segments of the population pick and choose their spots to get disgusted with violence.

"We" also tend to get irritated when verdicts are rendered by said population/media without trial.

4/11/2012 10:27:22 PM

Quote :

"Some of us also get mad that certain segments of the population pick and choose their spots to get disgusted with violence."

Which segments are picking and choosing? I don't see any example of this anywhere.

Quote :

""We" also tend to get irritated when verdicts are rendered by said population/media without trial."

What do you mean "without trial"? It sounds like you are on the same side as Trayvon's family, because they wanted a trial PERIOD.

You realize there would have been no trial at all, without the public outrage? You realize that Trayvon's mom said now that there is at least an arrest she was happy (she didn't push for a conviction, she didn't demand Zimmerman's head, she was content there was a trial).

You are a parent, IIRC, what would you do if your kid was shot, and the police did nothing, even though the lead investigator thought a crime was committed? I'd be a ton of money, it'd be very similar to what Trayvon's parents did.

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 10:43 PM. Reason : ]

4/11/2012 10:42:27 PM

I don't have a firm opinion on this either way, because I don't know enough. I think the subtle details that we don't know are what makes this either a crime or simply an unfortunate tragedy.

I am really tired of people blaming FL gun laws, or saying that Z wasn't injured badly enough to warrant shooting M (irrelevant), or making some argument about how Z blew off instruction from 911 to not follow M (for one, there was no such instruction--they said "we don't need you to do that", and for another, a 911 operator has no authority whatsoever to dictate your actions. Irrelevant.), or saying that M was unarmed, or only 17, or not as big as Z, or whatever. Totally irrelevant.

None of that shit matters. It seems like 90% of the things people are bringing up are things that don't matter. They are making emotional reactions to a very serious matter, and that frustrates me a lot, and makes me fear for the 2nd and 3rd order effects of this ordeal if this line of--or lack of-reasoning isn't properly crushed.

I am fairly confident that there is no way in hell this is murder 2.



Oh, and in either case, I think that Martin's parents--particularly his mother--and Zimmerman's brother--have both really been praiseworthy for their public responses to this.

4/11/2012 11:11:05 PM

Quote :

"saying that Z wasn't injured badly enough to warrant shooting M (irrelevant)"

Why are you thinking this is irrelevant?

in the 911 call with the screaming (Call3.wav*), there is 49 seconds of uninterrupted screaming on the call alone, who knows how long beforehand.

It's not clear who was screaming, but if Zimmerman's claim is that Martin was pummeling him 1) Zimmerman doesn't have >49 seconds of pummeling on him 2) regardless of who's screaming, it doesn't sound like they are struggling in a fist fight .

The relevancy of Z's injuries calls into question his entire account of what happened.

* this is no longer hosted on the SPD site, but i'm sure it's on the net somewhere

4/11/2012 11:41:43 PM

Quote :

"The relevancy of Z's injuries calls into question his entire account of what happened. "

THAT may be a legitimate argument.

but if someone I don't know attacks me, I probably wouldn't shoot them just for punching me once (depending on the circumstances, I guess), but I can tell you that there wouldn't be much of a struggle at all before I started shooting. If you attack me...well, I don't know you, your capabilities, whether or not you're armed, etc. I don't want to take a lucky hit and really get hurt. I'm not looking to give you the benefit of the doubt and hold out to the bitter, bloody end--that ship has sailed, unfortunately. I want to ensure my safety and get out of that situation right now. If you wrongly attack me, I feel threatened, and I escape relatively unscathed by shooting you...well, that's a job well done on my part.

4/12/2012 12:32:13 AM

Imagine how many people would be dead if someone got shot every time there was fist fight.

4/12/2012 12:39:35 AM

Quote :

" but if someone I don't know attacks me, I probably wouldn't shoot them just for punching me once (depending on the circumstances, I guess), but I can tell you that there wouldn't be much of a struggle at all before I started shooting. If you attack me...well, I don't know you, your capabilities, whether or not you're armed, etc. I don't want to take a lucky hit and really get hurt. I'm not looking to give you the benefit of the doubt and hold out to the bitter, bloody end--that ship has sailed, unfortunately. I want to ensure my safety and get out of that situation right now. If you wrongly attack me, I feel threatened, and I escape relatively unscathed by shooting you...well, that's a job well done on my part."

If i carried a gun, i'd shoot an attacker at the earliest chance I got too (largely because i'm not a big dude at all). Z looks physically fit and muscular in the video we see of him, and he has a good 40 pounds on the low end on Martin (who was renowned for his skinniness).

Which is why I think Z's account of what happened doesn't fit with the 911 call.

At LEAST 49 seconds of a regular pattern of yelling "help," it doesn't sound breath-y.

If Martin was on top of him hitting him, how was he able to get his gun (which Z claims he kept in a side hip holster)?

If Z already had his gun in hand, then when did he pull it out, if Martin surprised attacked him?

If Martin was struggling with Z to take his gun from him, why doesn't the screaming sound like a struggle is occurring, before the final gun shot is heard?

If Z was the one yelling help, why does ALL yelling stop after the gun shot? Wouldn't he still yell something?

Pretty much nothing about Z's account fits what's heard in that one 911 call.

4/12/2012 1:09:15 AM

Quote :

"Imagine how many people would be dead if someone got shot every time there was fist fight."

Imagine how many people would be alive if we didn't have violent reactions to stupid shit. Some guy following you around isn't an excuse to beat the guy up, no matter how sketched out you are. Equally, some kid telling you to mind your own damn business when you ask him why he's walking around "your neighborhood" isn't a reason to beat him up (or kill him) either. Realistically, even if everything else up to that point had happened the same exact way, Martin would be alive today if someone hadn't decided to get hands on.

Quote :

"If Martin was on top of him hitting him, how was he able to get his gun (which Z claims he kept in a side hip holster)?"

If it's not a retention holster, as long as his arm wasn't pinned, it wouldn't be unlikely that he could get to a gun in a hip holster.

Quote :

"If Z was the one yelling help, why does ALL yelling stop after the gun shot? Wouldn't he still yell something?"

What would you expect him to yell? I mean, if it is Zimmerman, and he's yelling "help" or "stop", why would he continue yelling that once Martin is down?

4/12/2012 8:57:32 AM