I feel like that debate won't happen after tonight

[Edited on June 27, 2024 at 11:43 PM. Reason : In regards to tt post about sept debate]

6/27/2024 11:42:54 PM

I think the real question on everyone's mind tonight is who is Trump going to endorse in 28

[Edited on June 27, 2024 at 11:55 PM. Reason : and whose AGI will be better at defending/conquering Taiwan, the US or China]

6/27/2024 11:53:31 PM

While it might be a pipe dream distraction, just to answer my own question from the previous page, Joe Biden would apparently need to release his delegates at the Democratic National Convention. I still don’t know how another ticket would be selected.

At present, given that Joe Biden’s already trailing in most battleground states, I’m not sure that he can recover from this debate performance.

[Edited on June 28, 2024 at 12:34 AM. Reason : ]

6/28/2024 12:20:07 AM

chronically online take

6/28/2024 12:37:05 AM

Peggy Noonan's latest piece so on point

Quote :

"The Most Important Presidential Debate Ever It was an unmitigated disaster for Biden and a rout for Trump. Democrats will have to face reality. Peggy Noonan By Peggy Noonan Follow June 28, 2024 at 12:37 am ET PHOTO: EMILY ELCONIN/REUTERS In the weeks before CNN’s presidential debate I was skeptical of its significance. I didn’t see a dramatic, high-stakes, pivotal showdown coming, only a moderately sized, pro forma moment in a long, drawn-out campaign. The format had too many prohibitions—muted mics, no open discussion, no live audience, no opening statements, no talking to aides during the breaks, no notes on the lectern. This promised something airless, manufactured, hermetically sealed. Beyond that I doubted we’d learn anything, because I doubted whether either candidate had the ability to expand on his known persona. Joe Biden has moments of blurted thought, but could he really sustain a thought or make an argument that coheres over two minutes? Could he suddenly show command, a true grasp of his own positions? Advertisement Could Donald Trump demonstrate that returning him to power wouldn’t be a wholly irresponsible act? Could he make any dent in the doubts, grounded in history, as to his nature and character? This wasn’t a question about whether he’s grown but about whether he can control himself. Still, as a national event the early debate would function as the formal kickoff of the campaign, replacing Labor Day. And it would make clear how each candidate intends to present himself and his issues the next four months. So maybe it would be more consequential than I anticipated. It was in fact as consequential as any presidential debate in history, and the worst night for an incumbent in history. It was a total and unmitigated disaster for Mr. Biden. It was a rout for Mr. Trump. It wasn’t the kind of rout that says: If the election were held tomorrow Donald Trump would win. It was the kind of rout that says: If the election were held tomorrow Donald Trump would win in a landslide. It is impossible to believe that the Democrats will continue with Mr. Biden as their presidential standard-bearer. They are going to have to do what they fear to do: make themselves uncomfortable, reveal their internal splits and brokenness, and admit what the rest of the country can see and has long seen, that Mr. Biden can’t do the job. They have to stop being the victim of his vanity and poor judgment, and of his family’s need, and get themselves a new nominee. Advertisement From the moment he shuffled out with a soft and faltering gait, you could see how much he has declined. He was pale and waxy, and there was something almost furtive in his gaze. His voice was hoarse and feathery, with no projection. His answers were scrambled, halting. At some points he made no sense. At some points he seemed out of it. Mr. Trump came across as calm, sure-voiced, focused. His demeanor wasn’t insane. He was low-key but high-energy. He obeyed the rules, amazingly, to his benefit. He showed respect for the moderators. If not quite genial he was collected, and he offered a new tack on why he’s running: He didn’t want to, but Mr. Biden, unfortunately, is such a disaster that Mr. Trump has to come back and save the country. “His policies are so bad . . . he will drive us into World War III.” World leaders neither respect nor fear him. In the split screen, when not talking, Mr. Biden’s face seemed to freeze, sometimes in unfortunate loose-jawed expressions. Mr. Trump was self-disciplined and knew his arguments. Won’t his proposed tariffs be inflationary? No, they’ll just spur dynamism and growth. He scored Mr. Biden on inflation, and the disastrously executed withdrawal from Afghanistan. He had the president on the defensive on abortion. Advertisement After Mr. Biden mumbled “We beat Medicare,” Mr. Trump said, “He did beat Medicare. He beat it to death.” Just before the half-hour mark, Mr. Trump unleashed an onslaught on illegal immigration and the border. It was pointed, tough and merciless. Mr. Biden had no answer. Or no answer you could follow. Instead he focused on a Trump aside. “Veterans are a hell of a lot better off” under him. “My son spent a year in Iraq.” His greatest hits. It seemed old and sad. Mr. Trump had just handed him his head on the border, and Mr. Biden had nothing to say. “The whole world is blowing up because of him,” Mr. Trump said. Mr. Biden’s mumbled reply was neither memorable nor coherent. READ MORE DECLARATIONS The Purpose of Journalism Is to Get the StoryJune 20, 2024 The Dishonorable Attack on the AlitosJune 13, 2024 The moderators turned to Jan. 6. What do you say to voters who say you violated your constitutional oath on that day, and will do it again? Mr. Trump used his reply to tee off a long attack on Mr. Biden and how the world had deteriorated under him. He claimed that he only asked people to move forward “peacefully and patriotically” on that day, and then scored Nancy Pelosi for not accepting his help. “And she now admits she turned it down.” Mr. Biden said Mr. Trump “encouraged those folks who went to Capitol Hill.” During the riot he sat back and watched it on television. Then Mr. Biden seemed to lose his focus—on what should have been his most powerful case against Mr. Trump. Advertisement Mr. Trump accused Democrats of allowing endless riots after George Floyd’s death and said the “unselect committee” on Jan. 6 operated dishonorably. Mr. Biden often looked at Mr. Trump and seemed to think his facial expression at those moments was powerful. I don’t think Mr. Trump ever looked at Mr. Biden, only at the moderators. He did his own greatest hits: “My retribution is going to be success.” “His son is a felon.” “I did nothing wrong.” Mr. Biden attempted to bait him with little effect. “Having sex with a porn star while your wife was pregnant.” “You have the morals of an alley cat.” Mr. Trump didn’t get rattled or angry but defended himself: “The public knows it’s a scam.” He calmly claimed that he has always opposed political violence. A moderator asked if Mr. Trump accept the results of the election. Mr. Trump responded with his usual caveat: “If it’s fair and legal and a good election—absolutely.” “There’s nothing I’d rather do.” Advertisement Here, toward the end, Mr. Biden finally had a strong moment. “I doubt if you’ll accept [the November outcome] because you’re such a whiner.” “Something snapped in you” after losing in 2020. All the fact-checkers will be out this weekend. Good, fine. Mr. Trump played fast and loose—we know this. But he’s the one who’ll have made sense to people. You could hear him and understand what he was saying. He seemed focused. He didn’t seem unstable. Again, he didn’t seem insane. In pushing and agreeing to an early debate, Mr. Biden’s White House and campaign advisers took a big swing. They missed. Mr. Biden couldn’t execute their plan. The Democratic Party doesn’t know it, but it got a gift. The dam broke. There is still time, and Mr. Trump is still takable. This can’t continue. I am sorry to say this harsh thing, but allowing him to go forward at this point looks like elder abuse. At the very least you can be sure that Donald Trump will never bother to debate Joe Biden again. He doesn’t have to. He’ll be only too happy to leave it exactly where it is. "

Hope wsj doesn't mind. Can't do the trick tt told us about with web.archive

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-most-important-presidential-debate-ever-89ba15ae?mod=mhp

6/28/2024 1:18:38 AM

Newsome is the only one that could beat Trump at this point IMO, but the Dem leadership is too stupid to go that route. Gonna be 4 years of Trump and Little Marco

6/28/2024 7:11:18 AM

A stark juxtaposition with last night's debate is Pete Buttigieg's appearance before the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee yesterday. The differences were night and day.

6/28/2024 8:09:59 AM

Rubio is maybe the least unpalatable Republican VP candidate for me. I voted for him in the 2016 Republican Primary.

I am not sure it's that the Democrats are too stupid. Biden is prideful and I had a post in the semi-recent past about how amazing it is that the failure to come to grips with one's mortality and inevitable decline of just one person, essentially due to pride can really F over the country. RBG and Biden are two recent examples on the Democratic side. Step off stage and let someone with more vigor take over. I don't get it.

I also am not sure that someone like Gavin Newsome would want to go up against Trump in the current climate unless he was pretty certain he would win, because a high-profile loss at the national level would likely taint his future ambitions. Then we have the whole Kimberly Guilfoyle baggage.

I wonder what would be the reaction of the electorate to a late entry from the Democratic side. While Democrats would be relieved, would people on the fence just assume the party is in chaos and automatically go with the name they know -- the "successful American businessman".

6/28/2024 8:22:39 AM

^^^
Not at all, lol. Newsom would get wrecked by Trump in swing states and the Rust Belt... he's a 'Cali boy' and he knows it... let him stick around those parts.

^^I've come to detest hypotheticals cause they disregard what we have... reality. Sure, as much noise is there is about "why are our only choices two old men, so stupid... let me go post this on tiktok like every other person"... they are the candidates for a reason. The candidates represent the country at the moment, it may not be what the country "wants" but it is *what they are*. "Wants" don't mean anything, they never have, because they're not real. Things don't happen in a vacuum. As much as people say they may want something, reality says otherwise, you can't approach it from the perspective of an individual. The system and every person as a part of it brings upon what there is.

You put any other Democrat against Trump, barring some God sent miracle of a man, I guarantee their loss. Hell, besides what I said before, the simple dynamic of an aging Democrat sitting in the Oval Office while some 'upstart' wants to take the reins will set people to the other party... where a common name lies (as The Coz also suggested).

This is a battle of Presidents... no one else is winning.

6/28/2024 8:47:27 AM

My last statement of my own prompting on the matter... I think I'm come to the conclusion that regardless of how this debate really went, a lot of people on the left, and on the liberal media like to be losers. They like to be on the losing side, they want to be the saviors, the intelligentsia, the ones speaking the truth. It is maybe not their fault, a manifestation of their job and the culture that permeates through it, but yeah.

Annoying as fuck

6/28/2024 9:45:47 AM

Surprised Trump hasn't released his VP candidate, really late in the year to start on signs for 24'

6/28/2024 9:47:43 AM

^

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-06-23/trump-says-he-s-chosen-a-vice-president-but-hasn-t-told-them

Quote :

"Former President Donald Trump said he’s made up his mind on who he’ll select as his vice presidential nominee - but hasn’t told the Republicans vying for the position his decision yet."

Quote :

"The presumptive Republican presidential nominee has previously said he would announce his choice at or shortly before the Republican National Convention, which begins July 15 in Milwaukee. But Trump may decide to make the announcement earlier, in part to distract from coverage of his July 11 sentencing on 34 felony counts in a New York hush money case."

6/28/2024 9:52:04 AM

Quote :

"Surprised Trump hasn't released his VP candidate, really late in the year to start on signs for '24"

He doesn't care about another name being on the signs. It is all about him anyway. He might prefer to fly solo as long as possible.

6/28/2024 10:23:25 AM

I don’t really see why people are saying switching candidates is going to beat trump. The optics of switching to a guy swing voters never heard of doesn’t make sense. Remember swing voters tend to be the least politically aware, they don’t follow political issues, they just go based on fairly superficial things— think about how you vote in local elections where you never researched a candidate.

People are saying Biden came alive in the interviews after the debate, we’ve seen Biden seeming sharp at the SOTU, democrats just need to keep running pro Biden ads, and try to make the next debate happen with the good Biden.

6/28/2024 10:24:33 AM

I don't think an open convention and a new candidate would be inevitably disastrous. It would have to be managed well, better than I trust the Democrats to do, but I believe polling has long suggested that a "Generic Democrat" candidate far out-performs Biden against Trump. You just need someone without crippling baggage, and ideally someone young-ish.

Unfortunately the apparent successor is Kamala Harris, who has a pretty hefty amount of baggage and has been panned for pretty much her whole Vice Presidency.

---

It's not looking great. I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet, but like I've been saying, Trump's best hope was for Biden to fuck up, and Biden fucked up. As did the people around Biden who let him agree to this debate, knowing the state he's in. Which, let me say, might be perfectly competent to handle his duties, but obviously not to do a debate.

Biden can give the greatest speeches imaginable on the campaign trail, and they won't help because they won't get widespread media coverage. He can crush the second debate, but first impressions are important and fewer people will watch that one, anyway.

6/28/2024 11:00:56 AM

And it's fairly unlikely that he would conceivably be in a state to crush the second debate, if there is one.

6/28/2024 11:42:34 AM

Here’s Biden talking to his supporters just after the debate

https://www.threads.net/@keithedwards/post/C8voBKwOqeK/?xmt=AQGzLgoctaPy4As-XN38wogVq5gY2Jf6XHts8k_OzZul1Q

Not slurring or mumbling.

6/28/2024 12:07:32 PM

Quote :

"threads.net"

6/28/2024 12:59:30 PM

douche.bag

6/28/2024 1:28:58 PM

A lot can happen between now and November. And people have short attention spans anyway. Trump just needs to let all the praise about last night go to his head and do something stupid.

6/28/2024 1:58:21 PM

^^^
More for you with Biden in Raleigh

https://www.threads.net/@acynig/post/C8xMG6LvJuY/?xmt=AQGzeJZH7DUgRsemWFBeRL0WO3oq8tvI5j4kw_4XNqkwSw

6/28/2024 2:06:20 PM

Hillary Clinton won her debates with Donald Trump and still lost the 2016 election to him, so anything's possible.

6/28/2024 2:30:09 PM

People need to look at this election as one of VP’s, not presidents. There is a fairly good chance the VP for either candidate will eventually be running the country.

Was not a fan of Trump’s performance last night. It was commanding in the face of Biden, but completely lacked any substance. The only policy that I pulled from his superlatives was “more tariffs,” and “shut the border down again.”

The question regarding the opioid crisis gave both candidates a great opportunity to expand on where they could improve a dire situation in this country - neither candidate was able to do so.

6/28/2024 2:32:19 PM

Quote :

" Hillary Clinton won her debates with Donald Trump and still lost the 2016 election to him, so anything's possible. "

Hillary was up in the polls And lot because of comey

6/28/2024 2:42:37 PM

It's wild, though, that Hillary's investigation cost her the election but Trump's multiple convictions and indictments are just whatever to the electorate.

6/28/2024 2:50:20 PM

Didn't you listen? It's because the electorate are smart enough to know that it's all a scam.

6/28/2024 5:45:33 PM

^^ Different electorate. Trump's voters engage in more magical thinking and willful disregard of plainly evident facts.

6/28/2024 6:02:59 PM

I just can't see how Trump doesn't defeat Biden or any democrat at this point. It's not like Trump could say something between now and the election that would alienate a majority of his supporters or Americans writ large. Don't think an open convention would work either, don't think enough Americans would buy into whichever candidate the Dems pick to overcome Trumps guaranteed support.

6/28/2024 7:43:51 PM

The crowd that came out for Biden today in that clip really helped. I went from "Biden needs to step down" to "Biden needs to step down but probably won't" after watching.

6/28/2024 9:22:01 PM

it’s just a shame that the debate was the only chance the country will get to see Biden speak publicly between now and the election

the pundit class was extremely giddy to write their “Biden must drop out” pieces

Twitter has ruined us all

6/28/2024 10:53:50 PM

trumps best strategy is to drop out of the next debate, but Biden could possibly bait him

https://www.threads.net/@axios/post/C8xMnySvoPa?xmt=AQGzOZ3fmeHc1xho4--UjNOUW5kTPh2sS8DciccxjaF2HA

if this Biden shows up he would have crushed trump

6/29/2024 12:27:09 AM

^^

yeah, I really despise the NYT editorial board right now

6/29/2024 12:29:35 AM

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/27/politics/read-biden-trump-debate-rush-transcript/index.html

the transcript is a lot easier to understand... I get what Biden was saying now with the immigrant rape thing

6/29/2024 12:48:13 AM

I think all of Trump's shit rallies helped him be more comfortable talking in public recently than Biden who hadn't really been seen since the SotU. If Biden stays out on the campaign trail I think he could look much better in the September debate.

6/29/2024 1:20:19 AM

Quote :

"Biden who hadn't really been seen since the SotU"

It is clear why. And unless Trumps fortunes seriously turn for the worse between then, I wouldn't touch that debate with a 10 foot pole if I were him

[Edited on June 29, 2024 at 1:39 AM. Reason : They(Biden) literally asked for this]

6/29/2024 1:37:50 AM

He looked fine tonight in Raleigh

I mean he looked old, but he acted like he was 60!

[Edited on June 29, 2024 at 1:54 AM. Reason : .]

6/29/2024 1:50:21 AM

78 is the new 18! Woody Paige chalkboard today

6/29/2024 2:08:16 AM

If Biden steps down as the nominee, Harris needs to be the nominee. Anything else just fractures the party too much.

Harris/Cooper (or Beshear)

6/29/2024 9:28:20 AM

Was Biden using a teleprompter in Raleigh?

6/29/2024 10:05:04 AM

I heard an interview with RFK Jr on NPR yesterday.

That dude makes both Trump and Biden sound like great orators.

[Edited on June 29, 2024 at 8:18 PM. Reason : I]

6/29/2024 11:57:15 AM

Yes, he's horrible. Would have been nice for him to be included so that Biden wouldn't have looked so singularly bad.

6/29/2024 3:02:25 PM

So, fun times, if the Dems end up dropping Biden and picking a nominee at the DNC, their eventual candidate will likely be left of the ballot for multiple swing states, because the DNC is being held after the deadline for delaying a candidate in those states. It's a little bit bullshit, and states have typically looked the other way, (as they did for Trump in 2020), but now Rs in these states are looking for any advantage they can get, so...

Also, putting Harris in a Joe's replacement would be more of a guaranteed L than Biden at this point. Her own damn party didn't even want her 4 years ago.

6/29/2024 10:14:18 PM

Why is their convention so late?

6/29/2024 11:29:52 PM

There is only one state that Biden wouldn't be in the ballot and I think it is Ohio which is not a swing state. All other states the Dem ticket no mater who it ends up being will be on the ballot.

6/30/2024 3:07:35 AM

I am concerned that America might be fucked in the butt.

6/30/2024 12:51:28 PM

^^he will be on the ballot in ohio. Doing some online kickoff event a few weeks earlier as a loophole type measure

6/30/2024 12:57:00 PM

Yeah, but I think the discussion was about whether a replacement ticket could make it on the ballot in enough of the right states if the nominee wasn't known until after an open convention. But, unless Grandpa Joe decides on his own or is convinced by family and / or party officials to stop seeking the nomination on his own, it looks unlikely.

6/30/2024 1:01:15 PM

Ohio is a non-issue, they got an exception

6/30/2024 3:34:01 PM

Also, I'm not sure why people think Harris is a guaranteed loss. The nominee essentially has to be her and she polls slightly higher than 'Generic Democrat'.

If the nominee is anyone else, it's essentially a tacit admission that that Biden administration was terrible.

I would say that Harris/Cooper (or Beshear) would be a success

6/30/2024 3:47:44 PM

Don't forget the racist and misogynist vote, though.

6/30/2024 4:49:15 PM