Quote :

"Marcus Hill would be a fine guard coming off the bench to provide some offense. Instead he’s being asked to be the primary scorer and he can’t shoot for shit. That’s a bad recipe."

Haha, I can 100% agree with this. He'd be an amazing change of pace guy. Just when the defense thinks they can relax for a minute, he blows by them for a layup.

Quote :

"I don’t buy this. We are not loaded with talent right now. Clemson has better players than we do. I don’t think this is like some of the final Gott or Lowe seasons where you looked around saw legit talent like Zo Brown, CJ Leslie or Yurtseven and Dennis Smith and the team just straight up not competing."

Hey, three out of four of those guys played meaningful minutes for years in the NBA. I don't see anyone on Clemson's current roster that even comes close to those guys. Their best guy is an undersized PF who does appear to be an elite rebounder, but isn't terribly athletic and is either completely MIA or just an honorable mention on people's draft projections.

Do we have a top tier talent like Smith on the team? Certainly not. I think BHH, and Styles are within spitting distance of Zo Brown/Leslie's level though. Taylor just a little bit behind them. Diouf, Parker and McNeil might be up there as well (hard to tell given their limited playing time). I think Diouf might lack the athleticism. I think Parker Jr has the size/athleticism, but I'll leave him out b/c his offensive efficiency has been really bad, even for us.

I wouldn't be surprised if BHH and Styles both get some smoke about potential 2nd round picks, and land two-way contracts after they measure at the combine. BHH was a top 5 rebounder in the ACC last year, and Styles was Georgetown's 2nd leading scorer and rebounder. They are athletic and skilled dudes.

Quote :

"Regardless, it it is talent, Keatts isn't off the hook. He recruited these players, either by choice or bc he couldnt convince others."

100%

2/14/2025 1:45:35 PM

Quote :

"I think BHH, and Styles are within spitting distance of Zo Brown/Leslie's level though. Taylor just a little bit behind them."

Brown/Leslie (and his baggage)>>>>>>>>BHH/Styles/Taylor and it’s not even close. I don’t care what 247 ranked them in high school, they aren’t the same caliber of players. Neither of those current guys will ever sniff the NBA.

2/14/2025 2:20:40 PM

^I Hate this MFer but completely agree here with Walter.

2/14/2025 2:36:20 PM

Quote :

"Hey, three out of four of those guys played meaningful minutes for years in the NBA. I don't see anyone on Clemson's current roster that even comes close to those guys"

I think you missed the point, DMS was noting that those guys ARE talented but their coaches did nothing with them.

Quote :

"Certainly not. I think BHH, and Styles are within spitting distance of Zo Brown/Leslie's level though"

If you're not as good as Ben Middlebrooks.... As for Styles, he seems like a plus 1on1 defender and decent shooter, but not near their level.

Quote :

"wouldn't be surprised if BHH and Styles both get some smoke about potential 2nd round picks, and land two-way contracts after they measure at the combine."

This is wild to me. But time will tell I guess.

Quote :

"BHH was a top 5 rebounder in the ACC last year, and Styles was Georgetown's 2nd leading scorer and rebounder. They are athletic and skilled dudes. "

Being a decent rebounder on a terrible team doesn't make you NBA talent. Being the 2nd leading scorer on a terrible team does not make you NBA talent.

2/14/2025 2:53:21 PM

You’ve got to go back to the Les Robinson era to find a starting 5 with less overall talent than this year’s team. Even KK’s bad 2021-22 team would smoke these guys…Hayes>MOC, Terq>Hill, Seabron>Taylor, Hellems>Styles, Ebe (lol)<BHH

2/14/2025 2:55:16 PM

Quote :

"Hey, three out of four of those guys played meaningful minutes for years in the NBA"

Yeah my point was that those teams, as bad as their results were, did have talent. I was just pointing out the difference between this year’s suck fest of a team vs the more talented but equally as bad suck fests under Gott and Lowe. Those guys had quit on their coach and their coach had probably quit on the team. I don’t really see that as the case with this team.

Quote :

" I think BHH, and Styles are within spitting distance of Zo Brown/Leslie's level though. Taylor just a little bit behind them. Diouf, Parker and McNeil might be up there as well (hard to tell given their limited playing time). I think Diouf might lack the athleticism"

This seems outrageous to me. The freshmen…I’m willing to say the jury is out on those guys. I’m not writing them off yet. They’ve all flashed a bit at times but are very raw still, which is pretty normal. But Styles seems like a catch and shoot guy and a decent defender. Kinda of an in between size when you’re projecting him to the NBA. He’s a guard’s size but plays a small ball 4. Not sure how that would translate to the NBA at all. Maybe he could project as a 3 and D guy but at his size I’m not really sure who he’d be guarding. BHH is definitely talented but it seems like he’s pretty much checked out most of the time. Taylor doesn’t seem to be a good enough shooter to be a true 3 and D guy, but that would have to be his role in the league. He sure can’t handle the ball, he’s just spastic.

Quote :

" Their best guy is an undersized PF who does appear to be an elite rebounder, but isn't terribly athletic and is either completely MIA or just an honorable mention on people's draft projections. "

Chase Hunter is definitely their best player. I think you’re describing Ian Schiefflin?

2/14/2025 3:14:56 PM

I have come to the conclusion that talage doesn't know anything about basketball

2/14/2025 3:31:15 PM

Quote :

"This seems outrageous to me."

Could you be remembering Brown and Leslie a bit more fondly than they actually stacked up though? Their play under Gottfried was a breathe of fresh air after the Lowe years for sure. But Leslie went undrafted and Brown was a mid second-rounder. Check out some of their college stats and individual performances. Styles is a far better 3 point shooter than Brown was. Styles is a better rebounded than Brown. Styles is in Leslie's vicinity for blocked shots. And he's done it at two power 5 schools. And let's not pretend like we weren't having to cross our fingers every time Leslie drove to the basket. Dude was a walking turnover. Keatts probably wouldn't even let him play .

BHH is harder to defend on stats (except the top 5 ACC rebounder previously mentioned), but last year he was being mentioned as a fringe 2nd rounder if he had chosen the draft over transferring. And I see flashes of what he could have been in the portions of games where we actually move the ball and are able to get the ball in to him.

I'm just saying, look at these guys we have that played big minutes in other systems and what people were saying about them coming into the year. Y'all are watching what they're doing in Keatts offense now and saying they have no talent. And my point is that they are above average college players and Keatts offense is not doing them any favors. if the dude needs a lottery pick, three level scoring guy to even be middle of the road in the ACC, then we are SOL.

Quote :

"Chase Hunter is definitely their best player. I think you’re describing Ian Schiefflin?"

I ain't gonna argue for/against who's better. I just picked on Schiefflin because I could actually find him mentioned in some draft prospect rankings but I didn't see Hunter even ranked.

Quote :

"Being a decent rebounder on a terrible team doesn't make you NBA talent. Being the 2nd leading scorer on a terrible team does not make you NBA talent."

I mean, I agree with that in principle. But they were doing it against good teams, even if their team did suck. Its not like we picked these guys up from the MAC. Also, I said they are within spitting distance of Leslie/Brown, not that they were sure-fire NBA talent. I don't think Leslie ever actually played in a regular season NBA game. I doubt BHH or Styles ever play meaningful minutes in the NBA. But I believe they have enough "talent" that they will get some looks. BHH has been in that conversation pretty much his entire career. Unfortunately, his choice of transfer schools landed him at losing teams twice -- he probably would have been better off staying at Tennessee.



[Edited on February 14, 2025 at 5:10 PM. Reason : .]

2/14/2025 4:50:09 PM

I think maybe you are misunderstanding the qualities in a player that make an nba take a shot at 2nd rounder or some summer league minutes, brown and Leslie had athleticism and 1v1 skills that BHH and Styles do not. BHHs skillset especially is out of favor and a dime a dozen these days. He's not athletic enough to be a rim runner, doesn't have an outside shot and isn't a top level defender or post player. BHH needs to be a few inches taller and or 5-10% better from 3 and or MUCH better driving the ball.

2/14/2025 6:55:18 PM

Comparing Brown or Leslie to Styles is odd to me. Brown was a PG. Leslie was a versatile wing/4 with way more length and size than Styles. Leslie and Styles might play similar positions but are just very different players in terms of style. Torin Dorn might be a better comparisons to Styles.

Brown and Leslie were pretty good. Leslie had bonehead mistakes and never fulfilled his potential. But at his best he was a really good player. Brown was such a baller too.

I think we’ve gotten way off topic talking about nba potential. Tons of good college players never sniff the nba for a variety of reasons.

https://youtu.be/ZgzIDm3GRag?feature=shared

This is just a level of skill and talent we don’t have on this team. And this isn’t me pining for the good ol days of Gottfried, to be clear.

[Edited on February 14, 2025 at 7:41 PM. Reason : H]

2/14/2025 7:24:14 PM

https://youtu.be/hqwSbKW8UTU?si=di6uuV6kRjoJUlsV

I miss this level of athleticism.

2/14/2025 8:18:03 PM

^ that was amazing

2/14/2025 8:58:08 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvFZjo5PgG0

Don't forget this classic too...dude was automatic

2/14/2025 9:45:31 PM

Fells felt like he had so much potential but mostly made flash plays every now and then.

2/14/2025 9:54:15 PM

Quote :

"I think maybe you are misunderstanding the qualities in a player that make an nba take a shot at 2nd rounder or some summer league minutes, brown and Leslie had athleticism and 1v1 skills that BHH and Styles do not."

No i get that, I just disagree on the second point. I watch Styles and see at least the same level of overall athleticism as Brown. I think his vertical and lateral movement may exceed Brown's. Does he have the same ball handling and passing skills? Nope, but he is also not a PG. And he certainly showed the ability to take people off the dribble at Georgetown. He's shown a little bit of that here too despite WTF our offense has been doing.

I'm not as enamored with BHH. But I see the athleticism and some of the potential that sports writers talked about with him for years. And last year he seemed to blossom into that potential. Then he transfers here and he looks like a less capable player.

My whole argument isn't about making these guys out to be lottery picks. Its that they are talented, and easily ACC level players but something about the style/scheme they are playing makes them look more shite than they are.

Quote :

"I think we’ve gotten way off topic talking about nba potential. Tons of good college players never sniff the nba for a variety of reasons."

Yeah, I was never trying to even really get much into the NBA potential thing. Just trying to make people see that there are talented players on the team. IMO they look like garbage in whatever offensive scheme we are running because whatever offensive scheme we are running is making them look like garbage. Styles looked pretty fucking good at Georgetown. Huntley-Hatfield looked pretty fucking good at Lousville. IMO both possess at least above average athleticism for ACC players. Same with at least a couple of other guys on the roster.

End of the day, I just think a coach willing/able to adjust their preferred style to get the most capable set of players on the court and scheme to the player's strengths would be dancing with this roster. I've offered quite a few quantitative points to support the notion we have talent, do with it as ye will. But bet your ass I'm gonna bring this back up if any of our players so much as get mentioned in an article about the draft this year .

2/15/2025 1:47:07 AM

Quote :

"But bet your ass I'm gonna bring this back up if any of our players so much as get mentioned in an article about the draft this year"

As you should!

JT off to a really good start today. Also. Donald Hand Jr. We’re old

2/15/2025 2:08:26 PM

Big win! Big win!

2/15/2025 3:54:34 PM

Lol i turned on the game after the hockey game and what the hell is this lineup

2/15/2025 3:59:00 PM

In the first half we had MOC, Breon, T Parker, D Parker, BHH out there as a lineup. wtf lol

2/15/2025 6:46:23 PM

Win feels good

2/15/2025 11:07:56 PM

Quote :

"Leslie was a versatile wing/4 with way more length and size than Styles."

he was also a damned good biscuit

2/18/2025 8:36:26 PM

That was the cajun filet add egg and cheese, right?

2/18/2025 9:06:58 PM

Pretty sure it was a bo-berry biscuit rather than regular biscuit, other stuff sounds right

2/18/2025 9:47:42 PM

^^and bacon

personally i just like adding egg and cheese

2/18/2025 10:20:45 PM

Pretty sure it was putting a thigh on a biscuit with mustard and grape jelly

2/18/2025 10:46:06 PM

Quote :

"That was the cajun filet add egg and cheese, right?"

There was almost certainly ham as well.

2/18/2025 11:00:38 PM

Quote :

"Just got back from Bojangles... 1. The cajun chicken/egg/cheese/country ham biscuit was all that I hoped it could be and more. 2. I decided rather than explaining this dream biscuit to the cashier, that I would just order the chicken filet biscuit combo (avec egg et cheese of course) and a separate country ham biscuit and combine manually. This may be the best route to go for two reasons: i. they could ring up the custom biscuit wrong, and/or ii. they may not place the country ham in your ideal layering order (e.g. mine is chicken/ham/egg/cheese). 3. The total came to $7.85, as I went with the regular sweet tea, rather than large. I was dining in as it were, and therefore would have access to refills as needed. If you order this meal to go, I strongly recommend the large sweet tea, as you will need all of it to wash down the week's worth of sodium you are about to ingest. 4. I decided to use a little mayo on the bottom biscuit half, and dip the whole thing in cajun hot sauce as I went. (side note: I also like to mix hot sauce in my ketchup to give it a kick with the seasoned fries. I'm not satisfied unless my food is also eating me.) 5. I don't feel so good, and I may need to leave work early. Here's what she looks like: "

[Edited on February 18, 2025 at 11:21 PM. Reason : W]

2/18/2025 11:18:52 PM

Quote :

" The total came to $7.85,"

2/18/2025 11:31:57 PM

2/19/2025 12:35:18 AM

^^with drink lol

2/19/2025 12:46:19 AM

lol jesus

2/19/2025 6:47:14 AM

Calvin Leslie was the best.

2/19/2025 9:23:56 AM

Wow, that's crazy... a cajun filet biscuit combo, with egg and cheese added, and a ham biscuit, and a regular drink. $7.85!!!

Get off my lawn.

2/19/2025 9:58:22 AM

I built the same order on the Bojangles website and the total came to $12.20.

2/19/2025 10:18:46 AM

i order the cajun filet with egg and cheese with regularity, and that, by itself is like $6-7

2/19/2025 12:06:17 PM

Will it be too unsafe for our team bus to make the trek over to Chapel Hill, thus giving all Cheat fans an excuse to say we are afraid to play?

2/19/2025 3:03:17 PM

I think they’re already there.

2/19/2025 4:58:05 PM

Trey Parker has some good offensive skill but he can’t handle pressure at all
Cool little 6-0 run with the Pack not even crossing hardcourt

2/19/2025 7:16:11 PM

Trey Parker gifting UNC 6 points in back to back to back possessions

2/19/2025 7:17:33 PM

Way too sloppy. One of the few things we’re good at is not turning it over. And we are turning it over a lot so far. That’s bad!

I realize MOC sucks and also can’t and shouldn’t play 40 mins/game. But idk why Trey Parker didn’t get benched during that brutal stretch. Just letting the frosh play through it I guess

[Edited on February 19, 2025 at 7:26 PM. Reason : H]

2/19/2025 7:23:21 PM

Can we just forfeit at halftime and make the entire team/staff walk back in the snow?

2/19/2025 7:31:59 PM

Alright. I’ll check back in later. This is bad.

Not getting back on defense. Can’t in bound the ball against the press. Getting totally out worked in every facet of the game by a very average team. Just doing dumb shit.

KK teams have at least always played hard and given max effort with very few exceptions. It’s been pretty easy for me to not jump on the fire KK bandwagon for that very reason. This is an exception tonight. We look like dog shit and look like we don’t want to be there.

2/19/2025 7:38:21 PM

^^we should be allowed to forfeit

2/19/2025 7:41:04 PM

If I'm KK at this point, I'm pulling a Coach Prime and running the offense through KJ the rest of the season to pad his stats and improve his NBA draft prospects

2/19/2025 7:43:42 PM

No spoilers please, i want to watch this game later

2/19/2025 8:17:21 PM

Hahaha

2/19/2025 8:24:16 PM

Spoilers: BHH probably won't be a lottery pick after this game

[Edited on February 19, 2025 at 8:34 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2025 8:34:10 PM

Recorded, started late, jumped ahead 15 min, then another 15 min, rinse repeat, delete

2/19/2025 9:08:13 PM

BHH and BM combine for 2 points and 2 rebounds against a team that is weak in the post. Cool

2/19/2025 9:35:18 PM

Would you say BM laid a BM?

(i don't have anything for BHH)

2/19/2025 9:45:13 PM