You also have to consider that Sid had/has a lot to learn about being a head coach in college basketball. He's never had this role before and it's not like he's coming from being a successful coach at another program and knows how he wants to compete and build his team.

There are some major differences in now and the past few years on how he's tried to structure our offense and defense. This year he has really focused his attention on defense and ball movement.

However successful he may become you have to take this into consideration when evaluating where he is now.

12/9/2009 1:04:25 PM

I agree he most certainly is "learning on the job" and that isn't ideal. But how much time do you give him to learn on the job before it becomes clear that he is or isn't a good coach? I would say this year he should have it figured out as the head coach of NC State, but he will get until the end of next year.

As silly as it may sound since we haven't sniffed it in so long I believe NC State should be competing for championships in basketball. We should expect to win each year, not celebrate a flukey win over a Big East school. I personally don't like having a coach who has to learn how to elevate NC State from the cellar of the ACC, but he will get certainly get his chance with the administration we have running the show.

12/9/2009 1:20:28 PM

Quote :

"I'm in the same boat as a lot people after the sick recruiting class he managed for next year, so if I were AD I'd give him this year and next. If he can't make the NCAAs by next year though he's gone."

I'm sure just about everyone agrees that if we don't make the tourney next season then he's done. No one is arguing we should keep Lowe if we are perpetually finishing in the cellar of the conference. So how about you just shut the fuck up about how he's a shitty coach since we're actually playing pretty decently at this point in the season. If we start losing a bunch of games then fine, bitch all you want, but being a negative nancy at this point in the season, even when we are playing well is fucking stupid and annoying.

12/9/2009 1:23:26 PM

OhBoyeeeee likes to make up arguments so he can argue.

12/9/2009 1:25:08 PM

I think he's credible.

To say that he's not qualified (based on the body of work) is forgetting that we haven't had a player that would probably start on another ACC Team in the last 3 years except for Atsur, Hickson (and these two didn't play with each other) and maybe Gavin Grant. I don't think Costner or Fells would have started on many other teams, definitely less than half.

So to me its not about how great Sidney is as a coach, but how he still really hasn't had a chance yet, which is why discussions of credibility in general, with the current NCSU Admin. in place, is asanine

12/9/2009 1:25:30 PM

Quote :

"To say that he's not qualified (based on the body of work) is forgetting that we haven't had a player that would probably start on another ACC Team in the last 3 years except for Atsur, Hickson (and these two didn't play with each other) and maybe Gavin Grant. I don't think Costner or Fells would have started on many other teams, definitely less than half."

I don't think it is fair to state this as fact. It's most certainly debatable whether the players just didn't have the God given talent to play or whether this was a product of poor coaching.

At some point when or if the losing continues the excuses for losing need to stop. Lowe is paid to win games and he hasn't been doing that.

Quote :

"So how about you just shut the fuck up about how he's a shitty coach since we're actually playing pretty decently at this point in the season."

This is the thread to discuss Lowe's credibility. Please quit trolling me.

[Edited on December 9, 2009 at 1:42 PM. Reason : .]

12/9/2009 1:40:48 PM

yeah, we haven't won any games this season.

FIRE HIM

12/9/2009 1:41:58 PM

^ just in case you forgot we were 7-1 last year too

12/9/2009 1:44:19 PM

Yeah, we really don't know anything at this point. We show "potential", but last year we did as well, and we lost a lot of games in the last 2-3 mins.

We won't know anything until we've played 3-4 conference games and had some tough road games.

12/9/2009 1:48:48 PM

I think best case scenerio

this year we finish in the upper half of the ACC this year. I really think we should be able to compete with:

UVA
Miami
GTech
BC
Maryland
maybe Wake

Then next year we have to finish in the upper 3rd and make a bid to the tourney.

I think that's the only way Sid stays.

12/9/2009 2:08:58 PM

Quote :

"At some point when or if the losing continues the excuses for losing need to stop. Lowe is paid to win games and he hasn't been doing that."

Look retard, we all realize that we sucked the past 3 seasons, no one is debating it so just stop with the incessant negativity. You aren't even arguing that we should fire Lowe now, or even at the end of the season, so what is the point of constantly saying "Lowe sucks" over and over again? Why not just wait a little longer, until after we've played some more decent teams to make a final judgment about whether or not we suck THIS YEAR?

12/9/2009 2:32:44 PM

^^ lol no

12/9/2009 2:35:53 PM

^^ whats with the name calling and condescending post? Does it make you feel more like a man? Look guy, I'm simply discussing Lowe's credibility in the "Sidney Lowe credibility" thread. That shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody. It's basketball season now.

If you want to defend his credibility then fine, but trying to silence all opposition to your opinion only makes your position look weaker.

[Edited on December 9, 2009 at 2:41 PM. Reason : .]

12/9/2009 2:39:11 PM

Hey guys, thanks for the support.

12/9/2009 2:53:29 PM

Quote :

"I'm simply discussing Lowe's credibility in the "Sidney Lowe credibility" thread"

not really, you're just making the same point over and over, and over and over again.

Quote :

"That shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody. It's basketball season now."

right, so talk about the team we have THIS SEASON, not how we sucked last year, and the year before, and the year before.

Quote :

"but trying to silence all opposition to your opinion only makes your position look weaker."

I'm not trying to silence opposition, I'm trying to not hear the same tired talking points that we've all heard for the past 3 years. Unless you're arguing that we should fire Sid now, or at the end of the season then you don't have anything new to say.

12/9/2009 3:06:16 PM

.

[Edited on December 9, 2009 at 3:17 PM. Reason : .]

12/9/2009 3:14:17 PM

Two of your quotes from the same page of the same thread.

Quote :

"I'm not trying to silence opposition"

Quote :

"So how about you just shut the fuck up about how he's a shitty coach"

Don't respond to the thread if you don't want to discuss his credibility and quit trolling me.

also:

Quote :

"not really, you're just making the same point over and over, and over and over again. ""

Oh really? What is this one point that I'm making over and over again?

[Edited on December 9, 2009 at 3:17 PM. Reason : .]

12/9/2009 3:16:02 PM

double post. suspend

12/9/2009 3:22:07 PM

Quote :

"Don't respond to the thread if you don't want to discuss his credibility and quit trolling me."

you're obviously the one who is trolling here, but notice how you conveniently left off the second half of the sentence where I told you why you should shut the fuck up about Lowe being a shitty coach this early in the season.

Quote :

"Oh really? What is this one point that I'm making over and over again?"

that we sucked the past 3 years, and there is no possible way we won't suck this year.

I'm done arguing with you since you obviously aren't interested in actually discussing anything other than bullshit and semantics. I'm sure your incessant negativity makes you a pleasure to be around in real life.

12/9/2009 3:35:32 PM

You guys have your heads in the sand. I lay out an argument of why Lowe's credibility should be questioned and you guys responses are "retard", "troll", "double post suspend". You don't want to face the reality of the situation.

You're doing nothing more than derailing the thread.

Quote :

"but notice how you conveniently left off the second half of the sentence where I told you why you should shut the fuck up about Lowe being a shitty coach this early in the season."

I'm sorry but this thread hasn't been locked or anything. The purpose of this thread is to discuss his credibility. I was asking one poster why he thinks Lowe is credible after a flukey win against Marquette. Just because we've beaten some cupcakes and a big east team doesn't make the poor performance of the last three years go away. If you think that's how life works you are in for a rude awakening.

[Edited on December 9, 2009 at 3:40 PM. Reason : .]

12/9/2009 3:37:19 PM

Quote :

" I was asking one poster why he thinks Lowe is credible after a flukey win against Marquette."

There you go making-up arguments. I don't think anybody argued that the win against Marquette solidifies his credibility. (except for the generic comment "still credible")

12/9/2009 3:43:02 PM

Quote :

"I was asking one poster why he thinks Lowe is credible after a flukey win against Marquette"

How do you know it's flukey this early in the season? It would be a fluke if we lose all our other good non conference games, but we haven't played them yet so it's impossible to know.

Quote :

"Just because we've beaten some cupcakes and a big east team doesn't make the poor performance of the last three years go away"

Nobody is saying that at all, but nice try. All I'm saying is wait until we've actually played some more decent teams before you assume we're terrible again this year. But you're obviously too stuck in the past to realize that teams CAN and sometimes do get better.

12/9/2009 3:50:12 PM

Quote :

"How do you know it's flukey this early in the season? It would be a fluke if we lose all our other good non conference games, but we haven't played them yet so it's impossible to know."

There's some genuine discussion. t was a good win certainly, but the reason I think it was flukey is because we put up 52 points in a single half to win by 4. I'd be quite surprised to see our team put up another 52 point half the rest of the season.

12/9/2009 4:22:32 PM

It was certainly a good win for our program on the road, which we haven't been very good at getting the past decade.

BUT, Marquette was picked 11th and 12th in the Big East for a reason. They lost their best three players and will have some WTF games. I tend to think they'll finish around 9th or so in the Big East and not in double digits but it's not like we went up to Syracuse and beat the Orange (only Hodge can do that!) or in to Philly and beat Villanova...

[Edited on December 9, 2009 at 4:27 PM. Reason : x]

12/9/2009 4:27:04 PM

Don Beebe I fully respect your views and opinion homedog, even though they are quite the contrary, but at this particular stage of the season you have to let 'nature take it's course'. A recognition of one trend isn't merely enough to jump to conclusions. Does it even qualify as a trend?

I'm going to give it a couple of more games before I reach summation. I will say this, our views are parallel. I give the benefit of the doubt.

[Edited on December 9, 2009 at 4:33 PM. Reason : /]

12/9/2009 4:31:41 PM

Quote :

"I'm going to give it a couple of more games before I reach summation. I will say this, our views are parallel. I give the benefit of the doubt."

Who fucking speaks like this?

[Edited on December 9, 2009 at 4:35 PM. Reason : haha, oh wait.. didn't even notice the return of THE E MAN]

12/9/2009 4:35:34 PM

Quote :

"BUT, Marquette was picked 11th and 12th in the Big East for a reason. They lost their best three players"

They were picked pretty low in the Big East, but at the same time they've played pretty well so far this season (RPI of 37 according to kenpom), they beat Xavier and Michigan, and their only other loss was to FSU by 1 point. Also, you could make the argument that Hayward was one of their 3 best players last year.

12/9/2009 4:36:02 PM

its just another stupid troll shitting all over sports talk

12/9/2009 4:36:26 PM

^ jesus man take it to the feedback forum. Every post you make is about trolling this or that. You're not contributing at this point.

12/9/2009 5:11:36 PM

and you certainly are.

12/9/2009 5:14:28 PM

Quote :

"I agree he most certainly is "learning on the job" and that isn't ideal. But how much time do you give him to learn on the job before it becomes clear that he is or isn't a good coach? I would say this year he should have it figured out as the head coach of NC State, but he will get until the end of next year."

I think your premise is off here. 1st, Lowe isn't "learning on the job anymore." This is his 4th year. We should expect to see Lowe's brand of basketball this year. The team however will likely still struggle though due to a lack of talent. So we suck, but for different reasons.

The important thing is that the team seems to be coming together nicely. It gives you hope that, when better talent arrives, Lowe will make good us of it.

12/9/2009 6:16:37 PM

Quote :

"(RPI of 37 according to kenpom),"

Everytime I see kenpom I think it says kenporn

12/9/2009 7:31:47 PM

Quote :

"we gave herb like 9 years."

God don't start that again. The situations were NOTHING at all alike. I really wish people would stop talking about Herb. We didn't compare Herb to Les Robinson and Les Robinson to Jimmy V and so on...

12/9/2009 8:12:36 PM

Quote :

"(RPI of 37 according to kenpom)"

Pomeroy doesn't track RPI

12/9/2009 8:25:24 PM

^ you are correct. that would be a pomeroy rating.

[Edited on December 9, 2009 at 8:35 PM. Reason : k]

12/9/2009 8:34:49 PM

http://www.collegerpi.com/

We are #10 right now with them.

Northwestern #32, Marquette #84, Auburn #95, Austin Peay #92, New Orleans #148, Akron #152, Georgia State #188

12/9/2009 8:36:25 PM

Quote :

"I don't think Costner or Fells would have started on many other teams, definitely less than half."

costner proved himself to be a pos who quit on his team, but your statement is idotic. fells was really inconsistent, but to say he didnt have talent is on a similar level.

costner average 17-7 his frosh year, shot 47% from the field, 38% from 3 and 16-8, 43, 29% in acc play.

when we beat unc that year, fells scored 20 and costner went for 15-11

costner average over 20 pts a game in the acc tourney

in our season ending loss to wvu, he was basically the only one who did anything, going for 22-13

last year he was the best player on our team but b/c of his pouting from the year before, sid didnt even attempt to run the offense through him. rather this was the right decision is debateable as you dont want to reward bad attitudes, however, costner was also the #1 recipient of sid's weird subs, he would start out scoring 10 pts in the first 8 minutes, then sid would take him out and not put him back in until there was 3 min left in the half.

it is one thing to bust on costner for heart, but it is impossible to argue that he also had potential to be great, which is what makes his quitting so much harder to take.

12/9/2009 9:32:38 PM

No one said they didn't have potential

By your own admission they sucked

On any decent team they would have been riding the pine

12/9/2009 9:36:09 PM

i just dont understand why we're ranked 10 on that site, haha

12/9/2009 9:42:23 PM

http://www.collegerpi.com/rpifaq.html

12/9/2009 9:43:16 PM

in the acc costner would have started for everyone but UNC and Duke most years. his frosh year he might have started for them too.

Fells could have started for over half of ACC teams. especially if said teams had PG and instead of having fells and GG share the duty. being force into being a ballhandler hurt his game.

and i never said they sucked, at least not costner, even when he "sucked" he was one of the best players on our team. other two years he WAS the best player on our team. granted we sucked, so maybe i'm arguing myself in circles.

ill admit, i like to argue against jj b/c i feel like he was overrated by most state fans and for costner b/c i feel like he was severely underrated by most state fans. w/out costner, sid would not have that win over unc and that acc tourney run that got him so much props from state fans. hickson was never lead scorer in his 3 games against unc and duke. he also lost his only tourney game, althugh he went for 27-14 so it is kinda hard to fault him for that.

12/9/2009 9:43:52 PM

this thread is making my nut sack itch

12/9/2009 10:52:28 PM

SID IS THE MAN

12/9/2009 11:00:06 PM

Quote :

"he was one of the best players on our team. other two years he WAS the best player on our team. granted we sucked"

a pile of shit with a bow on it... is still a pile of shit.

12/9/2009 11:01:45 PM

and the bow is still a bow

whats your point?

12/9/2009 11:28:16 PM

hickson played the acc tourney game 1v5

12/9/2009 11:36:43 PM

don bee bee or whatever is making this thread unbearable. you've made your point. please shut up. not everyone has to agree with you

12/9/2009 11:54:50 PM

rwoody i'm not gonna hold it against you that you called me idiotic and then contradicted yourself later by stating that you are just out to defend Costner.

Everyone on here knows Costner had a great Freshman season and if he kept playing like that, he would have been all ACC no doubt. He was hurt at one (or many) times, he gained weight, and he couldn't play defense. This is why his ass got taken out of the games. I am also not talking about their potential, i'm talking about what these dudes displayed, the heart they showed wearing the same jersey that Chris Corchiani, and Derek Whittenburg and Sidney Lowe wore and they weren't worthy of it. Josh Davis has more heart in his pubic hair than Costner displayed the last two years.

Fells? He might have started for Boston College or Vtech, but he doesn't start on any team south of north carolina nor any team in north carolina and that only leaves MD and Grevis Vasquez would play circles around that guy

12/10/2009 1:24:02 AM

Fells would have been a hell of a 6th man for some team.

12/10/2009 3:36:04 AM

^^So Fells couldn't start for last place Georgia Tech or Miami? Come on dude Fells would have started for any team except maybe Duke and UNC. It's funny you say VTech when that is the third team I would say he wouldn't have started for with Delaney and Vassallo. Vasquez is only one starter, the other starters were not better than Fells. Are you seriously going to say Fells sits behind the likes of Eric Hayes, Maurice Miller, and the great James Dews?

Dude could have been the best player in the ACC but either didn't have it mentally or wasn't in the right system or something. It was mind-boggling to watch him disappear in games.

[Edited on December 10, 2009 at 3:59 AM. Reason : Vtech backcourt]

12/10/2009 3:57:19 AM