you have some ridiculous expectations of 3 stars

I said it earlier in the thread and I'll say it again - save a couple squads (Virginia and BC) we are way outclassed in HS rankings by every team in our conference.

Smith is the only four star on our team that isn't a freshman. The only major conference you can get by with that is the SEC and even then, I wouldnt expect much. Dennis Horner is example A for why it's impossible to do anything with lesser talent unless you have a brilliant coach like a Gary Williams - he's been good against the crap teams and mid majors we've played, but he's getting blocked by Ish fucking Smith and pump faking 9000x against the real teams

Fowler fucked us over with the senior class and Lowe couldn't afford to have a weak class like the Mays/Williams one as a result. The end product is what you see this year

12/26/2009 10:26:34 PM

Quote :

"a brilliant coach like a Gary Williams"

[turntable stop sound effect]

12/26/2009 10:33:05 PM

Well, Gary Williams is a great coach, IMO. But he can't recruit.

^^My gripe with Sid is he doesn't develop players. Every year its the same argument..."the players suck". He recruited the players. Why haven't they developed? Every team has players that exceed their expectations. Where are ours?

Do you guys remember when we finished 4th in the ACC? It was the year before Sid got here. Since then we've finished 10th, 12th, and 10th. I'm just saying.

[Edited on December 26, 2009 at 10:42 PM. Reason : he sweats alot]

[Edited on December 26, 2009 at 10:44 PM. Reason : blah]

12/26/2009 10:38:19 PM

i dont think g williams is a mastermind but what example would your prefer? he's better than most of the dreck in the acc and the only coach id rate as highly has been reeling in multiple 5*s, overrated and of the wrong race they may be

javi has improved a lot since he got here. the problem is that he wasnt very good to start with.

smith was raw as a freshman. He's improved too, though maybe not by an amount more or less than you'd expect at any other school.

12/26/2009 11:02:33 PM

I agree Javi has improved. He's my favorite player on this team.

Bottom line in my mind: Sid get's paid to coach. The player's don't. So don't keep shitting on the players.

12/26/2009 11:38:17 PM

Javi's improved 90fold

12/27/2009 12:38:47 AM

gary williams has had a handful of good seasons in a long career of coaching. just saying.

12/27/2009 12:31:08 PM

What the fuck are you talking about with "these are his players"?

Who the fuck are his players?

Which one of these guys did he target in 8th grade and recruit him for the next five years?

What the fuck did you expect him to do his first season just walk up to guys and say hi I'm Sid I'll be coaching at NC State next season would you like to revoke your two year verbal committment to UNC?


He landed Hickson and Smith out of nowhere and those are big time players.

He's got a huge class coming in next year.

Do you really think Sid expected to win the ACC by getting Wood and Mays? These are fillers, what was he supposed to do compete with one star walk ons? He had to get someone. To say these are his players is just disingenuous. These guys are leftovers.


I DONT KNOW WHY WE ARENT WINNING SIDNEY IS THE ONE WHO RECRUITED BARTOSZ LEWANDOWSKI. THESE ARE HIS PLAYERS!!!! FUCK!

12/27/2009 1:11:14 PM

If you had bothered to read, my point was this:

Quote :

"My gripe with Sid is he doesn't develop players."

It has nothing to do with the fact he hasn't been able to bring in top-10 recruiting classes. It is that the players he does bring in don't live up to even their meager expectations. Talent-wise, each of his teams should be able to compete night in and night out with every team in the ACC except Duke and UNC (and maybe Wake or Clempson on the road).

A team full of 3*s with an occasional 4 or 5 * should be a middle of the road ACC team. We haven't finished ahead of 10th since he's been here.

What makes you think we'll be better than middle of the ACC with next years class? What evidence do you have that Sidney will develop them into a top ACC team? Sure we'll get more wins on their talent alone, but if he can't make mediocre players good, why would you expect him to make good player great?

12/27/2009 3:10:52 PM

Quote :

"Talent-wise, each of his teams should be able to compete night in and night out with every team in the ACC except Duke and UNC (and maybe Wake or Clempson on the road)."

12/27/2009 3:29:10 PM

Sweet another excuse! Now we have to let a coach start recruiting kids when they are in eighth grade and then play for them. So what does that mean now we have to give each coach six years?

I would like to see a list of the rankings for each ACC school. I guarantee we are not bottom three for the last four seasons.

[Edited on December 27, 2009 at 3:30 PM. Reason : ^Uhhh he's right. ]

12/27/2009 3:29:48 PM

what is the point of this thread?

12/27/2009 3:36:53 PM

It's to debate the coach's credibility. Not to shit on all the players he recruited.

12/27/2009 4:38:20 PM

championships are won on paper you guys

12/27/2009 5:55:27 PM

How come some of you applaud the fact that we ran the best coach since Jimmy V out of town for what the rest of us have had to endure for the past 4 seasons? We look slighty better than Winthrop and Elon. As bad of a coach as Lowe is he is really going to have to clean up on the recruiting trail each and every year to match Sendek's results.

12/29/2009 8:56:39 PM

we won. shut the fuck up.

12/29/2009 8:59:38 PM

oh is this not the thread to discuss the credibility of Sidney Lowe?

12/29/2009 9:01:03 PM

I think everyone knows your stance.

So, feel free to shut the fuck up now.

12/29/2009 9:11:49 PM

you got it, boss. Only because your a moderator.

12/29/2009 9:14:26 PM

BD bringing the STFU ITT

12/29/2009 10:11:47 PM

If that's the case then a TON of posters need to stop posting because they defend Sid if we lose to ECU or he kills someone.

12/30/2009 12:57:29 PM

Quote :

"you got it, boss. Only because your a moderator."

12/30/2009 1:02:33 PM

^ Wow, great catch. Make sure to run this post through grammar check too so you can re-post any errors I've made and send your TWW e-reputation soaring high.

Back to topic at hand, I think a lot of people have lost sight of what our ultimate goal should be, which is competing for National Championships (and anybody who flies off the handle at this assumption doesn't understand our school's history). In 4 years I haven't seen anything from this coaching regime that suggests we can get there.

[Edited on December 30, 2009 at 1:17 PM. Reason : V yeah he sure is an outstanding coach]

12/30/2009 1:16:26 PM

still credible.

12/30/2009 1:17:20 PM

^^ The entire point you are missing is that he is building something.

It's not like we've leveled off and are going nowhere.

We aren't going to win games this year because we have severely limited talent and the talent we do have is fairly inexperienced.

It's evident Lowe is capable of landing big talent. Why the fuck would we run him off when he's doing that?

I think Lowe so far has been a pretty horrible coach but he's getting talent. How the hell do you expect to do better right now? Run him off and go back to square one with no talent? No thanks, I don't want to put up with 4-12 for the next three years. We haven't even given him a chance yet, at least let him bring in the talent first and we can get a coach later.

12/31/2009 4:43:53 PM

how many losing seasons did coach K have before he started the dynasty that he has had for almost 30 years?

im not saying sid is any coach k. not at all. but i think that in college sports these days there is a trend to fire people way too quickly. DONT CONTINUE THE TREND

12/31/2009 5:05:14 PM

^,^^well said

also, lowe had no college experience at all coming in. He's made mistakes and it looks like he has learned from it. He shoulda benched the fuck outta lollerskates and baby Ben, but I guarantee you that people would have went apeshit that lowe wasn't playing his best players. Lose/lose situation

might as well see what he can do with talent. If he fas then fire him and bring in barnes with a loaded cupboard

[Edited on December 31, 2009 at 5:06 PM. Reason : ^]

12/31/2009 5:05:16 PM

Quote :

" I would like to see a list of the rankings for each ACC school. I guarantee we are not bottom three for the last four seasons."

uh, no shit? The squandering of Hickson, Grant, Costner, McCauley and Fells was an awful talent:results ratio only challenged by the likes of Paul Hewitt. Would you have preferred Lowe done what O'Brien did and just kick everyone off the team/IRing them and using that as an excuse instead of suffering through the inconsistent play/egos or having a guy play hurt (Fells last year, Degand his whole career, Javi on and off, Costner's thing where he got hurt in the Pan-Am and subsquently was overweight, etc)? The end results have been the same. We've sucked and finished in the bottom tier with both of them.

The argument is that THIS SEASON we have terrible talent. No one is happy with the last three years, and long term no one would be happy with this year either. But really, I'm not sure how you can be upset with how this season has gone given the team we have. There are no completely embarrassing results (yea the Elon game was bad but that shit happens to everyone...VT has 1 loss but went to OT with Delaware...just get through those bad games with the W and it doesnt matter) and we even have a win no one wouldve expected @Marquette.

He's done what he's needed this year to prevent his seat from getting too hot before he gets his chance to prove he's worth it with Harrow/Brown. All he has to do now is not get raped in conference play (still entirely possible) or drop any of the gimme's left on the schedule (also possible)

12/31/2009 5:12:11 PM

Don't bring your stupid hate for TOB in here....

1/2/2010 3:41:50 AM

Quote :

"not at all. but i think that in college sports these days there is a trend to fire people way too quickly. DONT CONTINUE THE TREND"

Not that I think Lowe should be fired, but the trend at NC State is to keep people around wayy longer than they should be.

1/2/2010 4:30:15 PM

^ yeah, Charita Stubbs is a fine example of that

1/2/2010 5:42:52 PM

what the fucking fuck? take bad players out of the game. this isn't some peewee shit where all players have to get PT

1/3/2010 4:33:38 PM

Javi is our best PG and he can't play against this press. Next year we'll have Harrow and Brown, and both can

1/3/2010 4:34:32 PM

wood has [i]finally[i] found a bit of a stroke

1/3/2010 4:39:30 PM

4/6 from three so far. not bad

1/3/2010 4:42:01 PM

davis shouldve been in

1/3/2010 4:55:51 PM

shut up cunt

1/3/2010 5:01:20 PM

i dont know when gonzo turned into mr clutch, but damn

1/3/2010 5:05:45 PM

javi is like the opposite of horner when it's crunch time.

1/3/2010 5:06:11 PM

FIRE LOWE. WORK ON DEFENDING FULL COURT HEAVES IN PRACTICE

1/3/2010 5:24:32 PM

- playing mays too much
- playing horner too much
- free throws

1/3/2010 5:24:37 PM

FUCK YOU SID FOR LETTING THAT DUDE MAKE A MIRACLE BASKET

1/3/2010 5:25:03 PM

FIRE LOWE. WORK ON DEFENDING FULL COURT HEAVES IN PRACTICE

1/3/2010 5:25:04 PM

i have no complaints with Lowe on this one.

1/3/2010 5:25:18 PM

^ agree, but personally don't like the fouling when up 3. But, it's a personally preference. Good game all around.. as a team you build on it and motivate yourself to not let it be that close next time. Degand missed the front end of a 1 and 1 late and also missed 1/2 there at the end. It's just too bad a good game like that got wasted.

1/3/2010 5:30:50 PM

Inherently not credible by virtue of coaching at a school this unlucky

1/3/2010 5:33:48 PM

Sidney did make some pretty big gaffs in this game.

Not playing Javi in the 2nd half was inexplicable when Mays was wasting possesion after possession.

Putting Howell in there when he bricked a three and threw the ball out of bounds wasn't a good move.

Benching CJ Williams in the 2nd half when we needed athleticism was a strange decision.

Not running any offense for the final 5 minutes of regulation was terrible.

Great job with end game execution though, they pulled off the fouling to perfection. If Horner and Degand weren't so anti-clutch at the end we would have had it.

1/3/2010 5:34:14 PM

Quote :

"Sidney did have a couple of gaffs in this game. Not playing Javi in the 2nd half was inexplicable when Mays was wasting possesion after possession. - I agree on this one i was sitting there saying wtf Putting Howell in there when he bricked a three and threw the ball out of bounds wasn't a good move. -With the game Horner was having, was it really any worse?? Benching CJ Williams in the 2nd half when we needed athleticism was a strange decision. -Have you watched CJ play this year, he has shown zero athleticism, having farnold in there was the smart move without question. Not running any offense for the final 5 minutes of regulation was terrible. -Yes, that was awful. Great job with end game execution though, they pulled off the fouling to perfection. If Horner and Degand weren't so anti-clutch at the end we would have had it. -Agreed here. "

1/3/2010 5:36:32 PM

Quote :

"Not playing Javi in the 2nd half was inexplicable when Mays was wasting possesion after possession."

Javi, until the very end of the game, was playing poorly and couldn't break the press.

Quote :

"Putting Howell in there when he bricked a three and threw the ball out of bounds wasn't a good move."

Howell's big body was a positive since he was normally in position for the rebound. He made some mistakes, but our other option was who?

Quote :

"Benching CJ Williams in the 2nd half when we needed athleticism was a strange decision."

Williams isn't overly athletic and when he was on the bench it was usually due to fouls

Quote :

"Not running any offense for the final 5 minutes of regulation was terrible."

Offense was ran, it was just a little sloppy thanks to the press.

1/3/2010 5:40:36 PM

Quote :

"Javi, until the very end of the game, was playing poorly and couldn't break the press."

Javi was having a bad game but Mays is mired in a bad career thus far. He was awful out there today and he was the one having trouble breaking the press.

When I referred to benching CJ I didn't mean for Degand. Degand played great and he definitely needed to be in the game. I would have subbed CJ in for Horner. Horner did a good job rebounding but he was just too big of a liability out there today to leave him in. For the record I would have gone with Javi, Degand, Wood, Williams, Smith and played small ball.

Quote :

"Offense was ran, it was just a little sloppy thanks to the press."

No, it wasn't. I have the game DVR'd if you need to see it. We did not run any offense for the last five minutes. We held the ball until the end of the shot clock and then hoped to get bailed out on reach ins, hit running crap, or hoisting terrible threes. We only got back in the game due to a bad foul call when Werner blocked Horner and a miraculous put back by Javi. The press had nothing to do with it, they were in a packed in zone that we never attacked with dribble pentration or passing.

1/3/2010 5:59:31 PM