is it peyton manning, barry sanders, or the minotaur that takes himself out of a game in the last 2 minutes?

with a groin injury apparently so bad he had to walk around on the field after the game hugging dudes and doing interviews

12/17/2006 1:30:59 PM

His TD passes were of 1, 9, 8, and 5 yards. So yeah, half 2004 Peyton Manning - where instead of calling runs near the end zone, he would throw goal-to-go TDs to pad the numbers, half typical Vick - being a selfish quitter.

12/17/2006 1:35:15 PM

Quote :

"Another terrific peformace."

That makes 3 in 14 games so far.....

12/17/2006 1:48:13 PM

why do you guys hate vick so much?

12/17/2006 1:57:03 PM

Im not sure what you are implying.

I said he broke the record. And that he's going to become the first QB to eclipse 1,000 yards. You are the one who seems to be having difficulty.


His QB rating is on par with Brett Favre, Matt Hasslebeck, and Chad Pennington. Tack on 1,000 rushing yards on top of that and you've got a hell of a season.

He has a TD/INT ratio of 19:11 after that game.

Coming into today Tom Brady was 20:12

I think he's generally regarded as a pretty good QB.

Really the only argument you could make against him is his low completion percentage but if you adjust his rushing attempts and consider them completions that argument disappears too.

Pretty fucking fine season especially considering the circumstances with the way his receivers struggled all year.

[Edited on December 17, 2006 at 2:25 PM. Reason : a]

12/17/2006 2:24:55 PM

Quote :

"blah blah blah golden god"

...later...

Quote :

"He was like half Peyton Manning, half Barry Sanders, half minotaur last night."

...still later...

Quote :

"I said he broke the record. And that he's going to become the first QB to eclipse 1,000 yards. You are the one who seems to be having difficulty."

yeah seriously guys it's not like rally called him a god or likened him to two of the best players to ever play the game

12/17/2006 2:36:59 PM

Quote :

"Really the only argument you could make against him is his low completion percentage"

and wins.

12/17/2006 2:42:52 PM

^^ eh, since you're apparentally an idiot i guess ill spell it out for you.


1)Golden God. Exaggeration. You guys are fucking stupid. Of course he's one of the better QB's in football. That part is obvious. You guys like to exaggerate and say he sucks. So I'm going to exaggerate and say he's a golden god just to balance things out.

2) the half minotaur thing is a reference to Tedy Bruschi. I'm sorry you half such a short memory and are totally oblivious to such an obvious reference. I bet you don't do well in English courses. I'll try to be more literal next time. maybe even include a works cited page at the end.


I cant wait for that inevitable Pro Bowl selection.

12/17/2006 2:44:00 PM

and lack of leadership for the position he plays

12/17/2006 2:44:08 PM

Here you go fellas.

On the season he is 187/354 for 52.8% completion rate


He has 116 rushes for 990 yards.

Since a rushing attempt is essentially the same thing as a short completion Ill factor in these rushes as completed passes just to give you some idea of his adjusted completion rate. This isnt an exact science as rushing yards are worth a bit more than passing yards (due to their enhanced "first down" value as opposed to "field position value") but it will least give us some perspective.

187+116 = 303 "completions"

354 + 116 = 470 "attempts"


303/470 = 64.4%

That completion percentage puts him among the league leaders. Phil Rivers is at 64.5% this season if you need a reference point.


When a guy averages 8.5 yards per rushing attempt it would behoove you to take notice.


Does anyone think Vince Young sucks? He looks pretty fucking good to me. But I guess you guys think he sucks too.

12/17/2006 2:56:07 PM

except his completion record is 52% not 64% so hes not among the league leaders

12/17/2006 2:57:56 PM

Saying he sucks isn't exaggerating, saying he's the worst QB to ever play the game is exaggerating. You're working in the exact opposite direction of the latter -- only problem is nobody is saying that.




If Vick couldn't run he'd be most closely comparable to Kyle Boller. If Kyle Boller could run he'd be most closely comparable to Michael Vick. One of them isn't a starting quarterback anymore and neither of them should be.

12/17/2006 2:58:10 PM

First of all Kyle Boller is one of the fastest QB's in the league so obviously he can run.


He was drafted based on his speed, remember?


^^ Alright so you're saying that if a basketball player only shoots three pointers and hits 40% of them and has an overall FG% of 40% then he isnt a good shooter.

I just wanted to make sure i addressed the fact that you don't know how to evaluate statistics before i wasted anymore time here

[Edited on December 17, 2006 at 3:01 PM. Reason : a]

12/17/2006 2:59:54 PM

wow so Vince Young should be considered the greatest QB of all time if we factor his runs like short completions then correct? he would be over what like 70-80 percent?

well then I guess Randall Cunningham was like a Platinum God.

12/17/2006 3:01:19 PM

I cant believe that in the same game he

1) throws FOUR TD passes. FOUR.

2) throws for TEN yards per pass attempt. TEN

3) Breaks an ALL TIME SINGLE SEASON RUSHING RECORD


and you still have the stubborness to argue this junk.

This guy could jump in and save a third grade schoolgirl from drowing in a lake on his offday this week and you'd still try to argue that he's not a hero because he rushed to save her instead of throwing her a life jacket.

He's pretty much done all he can this season. At this point you guys are clearly just in denial
.




[Edited on December 17, 2006 at 3:15 PM. Reason : a]

12/17/2006 3:12:41 PM

rally...vick had a great game...but why are you acting like he's been passing that well all season or all his career or ever with any consistency? ps they lost the game

12/17/2006 3:51:38 PM

rushing is sweet, but only when you don't sacrifice passing yards for it. summing it all up, vick is bad.

12/17/2006 4:04:33 PM

please comment on my comment about how run yardage means completions

Young would be 70-80 percent on the year then right?

so technically he would be the better QB this year if you are using that argument....

right? please clear that up because its one of the STUPIDEST STATS I HAVE EVER HEARD USED IN AN ARGUMENT IN FOOTBALL

12/17/2006 4:04:55 PM

i'd rather have young, he's a winner

12/17/2006 4:06:37 PM

which goes back to my other comment that he made no attempted rebuttal of.

way to overlook it.

12/17/2006 4:08:01 PM

um what?


A QB rush attempt is essentially a completion.

Its a means of advancing the football.

How is that difficult to understand?

Who cares if he throws underneath for 6 yards or if sees no one open and he takes off and runs for 6 yards?


So no, its not a stupid comparison at all. What is stupid is to evaluate a QB based solely on his QB rating when he's also got 1,000 yards rushing.

It would be like evaluating a point guard based on assists but not mentioning he averages 20 ppg. Or evaluating a defenseman in hockey and not mentioning he leads the league in assists.

12/17/2006 4:08:17 PM

Quote :

"wow so Vince Young should be considered the greatest QB of all time if we factor his runs like short completions then correct? he would be over what like 70-80 percent? well then I guess Randall Cunningham was like a Platinum God."

Randall Cunningham would be his own element, Randallium or some shit


I wouldn't evencall Vick a wooden god right now

12/17/2006 4:08:55 PM

So Rally using that stat of completions via runs


Vince Young is overwhelmingly the best QB in the league correct?
given wins, completions, TD/INTs and all...he is by far the best using YOUR VERY OWN STATS FOR HOW VICK IS SO GOOD!

12/17/2006 4:10:58 PM

^ what are you talking about? VY has worse passing stats in every category than Vick..

and Vick gets more per carry and has double the yardage (with obviously many more attempts)

[Edited on December 17, 2006 at 4:14 PM. Reason : x]

12/17/2006 4:12:46 PM

actually no dude.

Vince Young is the lowest rated passer in the league.

He has less than a 1:1 TD/INT ratio.


Vick is almost 2:1 TD/INT ratio


and Vince Young has nowhere near as many rushing yards.


Vince is having a pretty good rookie year though, im impressed with him. But his numbers are not even comparable to Vick's right now.

I'm not sure i see where you're going with this...

12/17/2006 4:12:54 PM

A defensive tackle for loss is essentially a completion.

Its a means of advancing the football.

How is that difficult to understand?

12/17/2006 4:14:15 PM

Vince Young is and will be a better QB than Vick.


Put Young on the Falcons and they are superbowl bound.

he gets the wins, Vick gets the herp

12/17/2006 4:16:00 PM

^^ lol

12/17/2006 4:16:36 PM

Quote :

"he gets the wins, Vick gets the herp"

lol, winner.

12/17/2006 4:24:02 PM

Quote :

"You guys like to exaggerate and say he sucks."

you people

who said he sucks again because it sure wasn't me

12/17/2006 5:03:56 PM

let's see...the accomplishments this year:

3 good games
.500 record
most QB rushing yards in a season
only 3 starters with worse completion percentages
bottom 1/3rd in QB rating
flips off fans
sits out final series when his team is losing

yeah, he's good

[Edited on December 17, 2006 at 5:14 PM. Reason : ,]

12/17/2006 5:14:07 PM

rally is just a troll

12/17/2006 5:35:50 PM

Yeah ok 4 TDs and 1 pick against Dallas, the #6 defense in the NFL is just horrible.

I would love to have Vick on Carolina. You guys are just haters.

12/17/2006 6:22:20 PM

^ dude, those TD passes could have just as easily been runs. none of them were even 10 yards long. It's just like how Peyton Manning was all throughout 2004 when he broke the TD record - like half of them were goal-to-go TD passes. It's not that impressive - I'm not saying they all need to be 50 yarders in the air, but celebrating touchdown dumpoffs because you need some consolation on such a dead point is sad.

[Edited on December 17, 2006 at 6:35 PM. Reason : rally himself has bumped this thread for 2 weeks in a row now, not to mention other times]

12/17/2006 6:33:44 PM

Okay so now the TD passes arent impressive.

What about the rushing yard record? Is that not impressive?

What about the 10 yards per pass last night... is that good for anything?

What about his relatively low turnover rate this season...any good?

What about his .500 record on one of the worst teams in the league... that do anything for ya?

What about his inevitable Pro Bowl selection? Does that count?


He had a down season by his standards last year but he rebounded and had a great year. He was pretty damn awesome in '04 ( pro bowler) and he was a pro bowler (that won a road playoff game) in '02 his first fucking year as a starter. Not to mention that in '03 he played great despite missing most of the season with injury.

You guys are way off here.



[Edited on December 17, 2006 at 6:42 PM. Reason : a]

12/17/2006 6:38:51 PM

I said they don't mean as much when they could have easily been running TDs. This may be just me, but I'm not big on goal-to-go passing TDs no matter who the quarterback is. This is now my third time saying this here.

Rushing yard record isn't impressive when his running is merely compensation for his subpar passing skills.

271 465 58.3 3466 7.5 30 13 | 118 942 5

guess who. He was an awesome passer and runner; this was actualized later in his career when running wasn't an option for him.

10 yards a pass wasn't good enough for a win last night and he doesn't do it enough for you to think you actually have a leg to stand on here.

Turnover rate I'll give him props for -- until you look at how many of his errant passes killed drives on third down, and how he had key fumbles in key situations against two very beatable teams (Detroit and Cleveland).

"His" .500 record? Wow, didn't know this turned into baseball all of a sudden. I'm sick of saying it: QUARTERBACKS DO NOT OWN TEAM WIN-LOSS NUMBERS! So to answer your question, the only thing that does is piss me off.

Brees, Bulger, and Romo are the top 3 QBs in the NFC right now. However he just might make it in due to fan voting... I wouldn't call it inevitable, I'd call it unfortunate.

[Edited on December 17, 2006 at 6:49 PM. Reason : ]

12/17/2006 6:48:31 PM

you bring up an interesting point.

Its possible that Marc "inaccurate" Bulger and Tono "turnover" Romo could be invited over Vick.

It seems ridiculous if you think about it but since the Falcons played so poorly all season and Vick had the middle finger incident they could give it to the "good guy" Bulger or the "media darling" Romo.

I just think the players vote will be enough to swing it to Vick even if the fans/media rally behind Romo.

Quote :

" Lord knows it's not a good habit to intentionally try to refute everything that Joe Theismann says, but when he claimed on Monday night that Marc Bulger might be the "most accurate passer in the game today," I had to look this up for myself because Bulger has always had the aim of a drunken Canadian Mountie every time I've watched him. Anyway, STATS Inc. keeps track of "poor throws" (passes that are completely uncatchable). Favre is No. 1 on the list with 88. No. 3 on the list? Marc Bulger with 79."

Vick 14 turnovers in 13 games. Romo 11 turnovers in 8.5 games.

When you remove the 5 TD, 300 yard performance against the Bucs D that made even Rex Grossman look good today. Romo hasn't really been anything special this season. You'll see what Im talking about in the playoffs.

[Edited on December 17, 2006 at 7:12 PM. Reason : a]

12/17/2006 7:08:18 PM

pro bowl? don't make me fucking laugh...maybe he can get the coaches' vote...he's been the MVP for 7 other teams this year

difference between Romo and Vick? one will be in the playoffs...and it ain't vick

[Edited on December 17, 2006 at 7:18 PM. Reason : .]

12/17/2006 7:16:05 PM

some other differences include:

1) One has Terrell Owens & Terry Glenn. The other one has Roddy White and Mike Jenkins

2) One has a top rated defense. One has a bottom feeding defense.

3) One is a turnover princess. One is pretty good at protecting the football.

4) One has proved himself in the postseason. One has yet to.

5) One of them fucked Jessica Simpson. One of them set an NFL single season record.

[Edited on December 17, 2006 at 7:20 PM. Reason : a]

12/17/2006 7:20:16 PM

Quote :

"One of them fucked Jessica Simpson. One of them set an NFL single season record."

Exactly. Romo wins.

12/17/2006 7:21:27 PM

put LdT at quarterback and he could set all kinds of rushing records too.

12/17/2006 7:29:26 PM

OK, now you're just a fucking idiot. TO leads the NFL in dropped passes.

In fact, Dallas has less than a 1% advantage over Atlanta in dropped passes on the season.

By the way, go check how much playtime the record got last night...just about jack shit. Nobody gives a shit, especially when it's by a QB who can't win.

12/17/2006 7:32:20 PM

To be fair, the only reason it didn't get more time is because the Knicks are a joke and TO is an attentino whoring moron.

[Edited on December 17, 2006 at 7:34 PM. Reason : x]

12/17/2006 7:34:42 PM

even with that, I still don't see the big deal. it's not like it was some huge number. west coast offenses are the reason that record has stood so long. people who aren't busy juggling vick's nuts see it and say "gee that's great...too bad he can't pass for shit" and move on

12/17/2006 8:32:45 PM

Quote :

"people who aren't busy juggling vick's nuts see it and say "gee that's great...too bad he can't pass for shit" and move on"

quoted for truth

Quote :

"Favre is No. 1 on the list with 88. No. 3 on the list? Marc Bulger with 79.""

I wonder who #2 is....

[Edited on December 18, 2006 at 12:31 AM. Reason : ~` ]

12/18/2006 12:29:38 AM

Quote :

"2) One has a top rated defense. One has a bottom feeding defense."

What about meangelo?

12/18/2006 12:45:30 AM

so, would LT have a completion pvtg of 100%? It's called RUSHING for a reason: because it's not PASSING. get out of here with that BS, rally

12/18/2006 12:53:57 AM

Hahah I love how Rally pwnd the fuck out of the Vince Young argument. VY's stats are horrible. They are winning because they have been playing lower NFL teams and Travis Henry has went off.

I mean its not Vick's fault that Dallas scored 38 points. As a Dallas fan, I will actually admit that Vick is still better than Romo. You can barely name a better set of WR/TE in Owens/Glenn/Witten.....I mean Vick is throwing to Roddy White as his lead target.

12/18/2006 1:01:48 AM

Quote :

"but if you adjust his rushing attempts and consider them completions that argument disappears too. "

Holy fucking shit...please tell me you don't seriously believe this.

First...Vick had a really good game. That puts him at about 3 really good games this year, 3 "good" games, and the rest are below average to shitty games. He's having an average to below average season and will probably not make the Pro Bowl. He only has an outside chance because lack of good QBs in the NFC.

Other notes worth mentioning:

- When Vick has good stats and the Falcons lose, rallys goes: "OMFG, DID YOU SEE HIS STATS!??!? HE'S AWESOME!!"

- When Vick has pedestrian stats and the Falcons win, rally goes: "OMFG, THERE GOES VICK AGAIN, LEADING HIS TEAM TO VICTORY!!!"

- The Pro Bowl team hasn't been selected, so what the fuck are you doing here rally??

- Rally was pretty silent for those 2 or 3 really shitty games Vick had, yet comes back blaring when he finally does something. Pathetic.

That's all.

12/18/2006 10:49:42 AM

Quote :

"OK, now you're just a fucking idiot. TO leads the NFL in dropped passes."

he also has 11 td's ... stop sucking espn's dick and think foryourself

12/18/2006 11:03:04 AM