people were disagreeing with me a couple weeks ago when i dared to claim that obama went to a racist church with an anti-american pastor

where ya at JoeSchmoe? still defending his pastor?

3/14/2008 1:12:25 PM

McCain has embraced some real radical ministers lately. First he says he is "very proud" to be endorsed by John Hagee, who called the Catholic church "the Great Whore"

Next he calls Rod Parsley his "spiritual guide"

Parsley says there is no difference between violent Islamist extremists and moderate muslims. He wants to go to war with all of them. Thats right!! 1.3 billion people. 99.999999% of whom are completely innocent. McCain's spirtual guide wants to kill them all.


Obama knows this, and his camp has to be careful with this information. i'm sure Obama will do the right thing, he has a pretty special ability to deal with these situations. Look at how far he's come, and he's a black man name barack obama. I don't think Obama wants it to be about pointless issues (race and religion) that really will have no bearing on the direction they'll take the country.

http://www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1393

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3548250.ece

and yes, Treetwista, you called it on here pretty early. Not like you were the only one, but I really didn't think it would go this far

[Edited on March 14, 2008 at 1:20 PM. Reason : ]

3/14/2008 1:17:54 PM

hahaha


Hagee and Parsley are far from radical.

3/14/2008 1:19:23 PM

^ oh, okay, wanting to murder all muslims isn't radical?

hahahaha

Quote :

"John McCain, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, has been called upon to renounce a church leader [Parsley] he considers his spiritual guide for urging a Christian war to destroy the “false religion” of Islam. "

hahaha


hahahaha

hahahaha

hahaha


[Edited on March 14, 2008 at 1:25 PM. Reason : ]

3/14/2008 1:20:49 PM

Hagee actually is pretty far from the evangelical mainstream.

3/14/2008 1:23:34 PM

Chuck hagee is a Dominionist lunatic. far more scary than anything old Jeremiah Wright has to say.

3/14/2008 1:35:02 PM

Wright is nutty like most religious freaks, but at least he isn't calling for genocide. The US already murdered close to 100K muslims in the past 8 years!

Wright is ALL OVER the TV yet Hagee and Parsley are just doing their thing like normal - away from the spotlight.

I don't see how people can continue to say Obama isn't vetted, and his cooky minister Wright is going to influence him and ruin the country while Hagee and Parsley are in play. BS!

3/14/2008 1:45:09 PM

Quote :

"Basically hooksaw is arguing that all religious advocates are batshit."

SandSanta

Bullshit. I've been very clear about my position:

Quote :

"While I do think that guilt by association is a logical fallacy, no one ever said politics is logical. This story is getting some traction, and I think Obama may have some explaining to do concerning it. In any event, had this been the questionable comments of a conservative presidential candidate's pastor, you'd better believe that candidate would have to continually explain the association."

hooksaw

http://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=512067&page=14

^^ The "Reverend" Wright said:

Quote :

"The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied."

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/14/obamas-spiritual-adviser-questioned-us-role-in-spread-of-hiv-sept-11-attacks/

Are you really supporting this kind of bug-eyed bullshit?!

^ Obama's been sitting in this guy's church for twenty years! That's not an issue?!

[Edited on March 14, 2008 at 1:50 PM. Reason : .]

3/14/2008 1:49:09 PM

NO, I'm not.

I'm advocating leaving their religious leaders out of this, because they are all crazy.

Are YOU advocating the GENOCIDE???

because that's what McCain's spiritual leader advocates on a daily fucking basis.

3/14/2008 1:50:46 PM

lol a republican is so going to win in november

3/14/2008 1:50:59 PM

If that's the case, brace yourself for a REAL modern holy war

3/14/2008 1:52:03 PM

terpball if a dem wins, brace yourself for troops staying in Iraq (like McCain is saying), Iran still developing nuclear weapons and the US being called upon to do something about it, as well as your tax rate going up about 15%.

holy wars are caused by one religious group forcing their views on others. the US is not doing that, the Jihadists are, by name.

[Edited on March 14, 2008 at 3:02 PM. Reason : ..]

3/14/2008 3:01:27 PM

I think Erik Prince would beg to differ

3/14/2008 3:04:49 PM

is he converting Muslims?

3/14/2008 3:12:00 PM

No, just murdering innocent ones

They'll call it (attempted) genocide in years to come

[Edited on March 14, 2008 at 3:23 PM. Reason : ]

3/14/2008 3:22:57 PM

why would the army need to contract blackwater in order to murder innocent people

when blackwater was in somalia, they had ZERO INJURIES...they just happen to be more experienced than skilled than your average 18 year old private

3/14/2008 3:30:26 PM

Blackwater has a few purposes, yes, they are more skilled - but they are also not a part of the gov't.

They are a private company.

This works well for shady murders.

3/14/2008 3:40:32 PM

^ As evidenced by.....some nutty-ass conspiracy theory book terp read.

Why do you even pretend like you're informed, man?

3/14/2008 3:48:03 PM

Quote :

"No"

then it is not a "holy" war like you have suggested. bumper sticker politics.

3/14/2008 3:54:12 PM

Yeah, you're right

http://www.blackwaterbook.com/

this NY times best seller is a conspiracy theory book - they made up all those quotes, and none of the interviews ever happened.

3/14/2008 3:54:57 PM

^^ I said to BRACE yourself for a holy war - McCain's "spiritual advisor" wants to get rid of the whole muslim religion, so if he becomes president, then it's holy war time right?

if not, then shut the fuck up about Obama's dumb-ass pastor

3/14/2008 3:56:18 PM

Quote :

"This works well for shady murders."

yeah cause they cant just get their own military to commit shady murders

Quote :

"BRACE yourself for a holy war"

we've been in a holy war for years

3/14/2008 3:59:00 PM

terpball, In a previous thread you were quoting the book as estimating that blackwater had more security guards in Iraq than the U.S. military had troops. That is simply not a number that can be replicated in any credible media source (I believe I mentioned estimates from NYT and USA Today).

Either you read the number wrong (confirming my hypothesis you're less informed than you think) or your book is totally crackers (confirming my hypothesis you're less informed than you think).

Plenty of nutty books have hit the Bestsellers list. Just because people buy it, doesn't make it true.

3/14/2008 4:06:59 PM

The book is legit, and I NEVER said they had more security guards deployed there. I said they had more agents - or maybe I used another word. I know I didn't say security guards, because what their security guards do is BALLS compared to what the Blackwater organization is doing over there as a whole.

I'm done

later

3/14/2008 4:09:31 PM

Quote :

"If we have the best military in the world, why do we have more privately contracted "mercenaries" in Iraq than US troops? "

-terpball

Quote :

"According to Major General Darryl Scott, commander of the Joint Contracting Command-Iraq/Afghanistan, there are only 6,000 contracted security guards working in Iraq. That's a very small portion of the 160,000 contractors working there. http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2007-09-17-iraq-monday_N.htm?csp=34 It's an equally small portion of the number American troops currently in Iraq--158,000. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinational_force_in_Iraq Some news sources have quoted higher numbers, but as Paul McLeary of the Columbia Journalism Review points out, they never actually state their sources. http://www.cjr.org/the_kicker/post_56.php The biggest estimate comes from the International Contractors Association, which estimates there to be 50,000 security guards in Iraq last year. That is still only 1/3 as big as the total number of American troops currently serving there. I didn't know these numbers off hand. I googled for about 5 minutes. I recomend you do the same before you make an ass of yourself. "

-Socks``

http://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=516265&page=2

As these links explain, Blackwater is a security contractor. Therefore, their agents are called "security guards". Does that suprise you, or did you think there would be a line-item for "contract killers"? Dumbass.

[Edited on March 14, 2008 at 4:25 PM. Reason : ``]

3/14/2008 4:12:28 PM

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120545277093135111.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries

Quote :

"Mr. Wright said: "We started the AIDS virus . . . We are only able to maintain our level of living by making sure that Third World people live in grinding poverty. . . ." "

This fucker is bananas.

Quote :

"Mr. Wright's church gave an award to Louis Farrakhan for lifetime achievement. In the church magazine, Trumpet, Mr. Wright spoke glowingly of the Nation of Islam leader. "His depth on analysis [sic] when it comes to the racial ills of this nation is astounding and eye-opening," Mr. Wright said of Mr. Farrakhan. "He brings a perspective that is helpful and honest." "

Man, I thought ya'll were so sure that Mr. Wright never said anything about farrakhan, and that the award was given for his work with prisoner's.

Quote :

"Mr. Obama went on to explain Mr. Wright's anti-Zionist statements as being rooted in his anger over the Jewish state's support for South Africa under its previous policy of apartheid. As with his previous claim that his church gave the award to Mr. Farrakhan because of his work with ex-offenders, Mr. Obama appears to have made that up. "

The more I learn about Obama, the more I believe that he is the embodiment of everything that Dem's claim to hate about Bush.

[Edited on March 14, 2008 at 4:58 PM. Reason : asdf]

3/14/2008 4:57:25 PM

Question to Obama supporters:

If Hillary Clinton ends up winning the Democratic nomination for President, do you:

A. Vote for Hillary since her policies are a lot more similar to Obama's than McCain's are to Obama's
B. Vote for McCain
C. Don't vote
D. Make a tough decision and weigh a bunch of views, options, stances on issues, etc

3/14/2008 5:01:50 PM

^^^ And U.S. troops really can't perform every security detail necessary. Do some of you really want to send out a squad to protect every mid-level diplomat in the country? It's simply not possible.

[Edited on March 14, 2008 at 5:02 PM. Reason : .]

3/14/2008 5:01:58 PM

Quote :

"As these links explain, Blackwater is a security contractor. Therefore, their agents are called "security guards". "

And there lies a prime example of your stupidity.

this idiot really thinks Blackwater only provides "security guards

^ Dude, I never said there was no need for Blackwater, but their leaders and administration is made up of mostly fundamentalist Christians who LOVE killing Arabs. I think there's something seriously wrong with that. Especially since well over 600 fucking thousand innocent Iraqis have been murdered. I am pretty sure most of them were Muslims.

[Edited on March 14, 2008 at 6:26 PM. Reason : ]

3/14/2008 6:19:06 PM

Quote :

"fundamentalist Christians who LOVE killing Arabs"

wow you LOVE believing anything

3/14/2008 6:29:31 PM

It's obvious that isn't what's going on here... but whatever. Believe what you want.

3/14/2008 6:34:27 PM

if they were really driven by something as powerful as religion to "love killing arabs" why do they do business with other arabs? why are some arab countries our allies? why havent they just nuked the whole middle east for jesus?

3/14/2008 6:40:20 PM

If we nuked the middle east, we'd have a nuke go off in NYC probably that very same week. Or do you think WE have all the nukes!?

This is just getting stupid, once again, I'm out.

3/14/2008 6:43:50 PM

^x5

Quote :

"Dude, I never said there was no need for Blackwater, but their leaders and administration is made up of mostly fundamentalist Christians who LOVE killing Arabs. I think there's something seriously wrong with that. Especially since well over 600 fucking thousand innocent Iraqis have been murdered. I am pretty sure most of them were Muslims."

Can you prove any of that? Or is it just the same old MoveOn-Daily Kos talking points? Or is it your own special brand of sickness? The "600 fucking thousand innocent Iraqis" sure sounds like talking points, though.

[Edited on March 14, 2008 at 6:48 PM. Reason : .]

3/14/2008 6:46:51 PM

^^i'd just like to know where you got the idea that the "administration is made up of mostly fundamentalist Christians who LOVE killing Arabs"

[Edited on March 14, 2008 at 6:47 PM. Reason : ^^]

3/14/2008 6:47:25 PM

I was talking about Blackwater's administration, especially Erik Prince - it's pretty well-known. Just look it up.

SHIT

OK

BYE FOR REAL

3/14/2008 6:48:56 PM

come on, terp.

don't try and confuse Twista with well-known and widely-reported facts.

you should know better than that.

3/14/2008 9:20:58 PM

GOD DAMN AMERICA!

3/14/2008 10:02:54 PM

Obama believes in change, change that looks towards the future, a future of hope and change, change and hope which we can believe in, Obama believes in change, change that looks towards the future, a future of hope and change, change and hope which we can believe in, Obama believes in change, change that looks towards the future, a future of hope and change, change and hope which we can believe in, Obama believes in change, change that looks towards the future, a future of hope and change, change and hope which we can believe in, Obama believes in change, change that looks towards the future, a future of hope and change, change and hope which we can believe in, Obama believes in change, change that looks towards the future, a future of hope and change, change and hope which we can believe in, Obama believes in change................

Yes we can!!!! Yes we can believe in hope, hope that is based on change, change that looks towards the future, a future that is filled with hope, hope that is based on change, change that looks towards the future, a future that is filled with hope, hope that is based on change, change that looks towards the future, a future that is filled with hope......

Yes We Can

3/14/2008 10:36:33 PM

I think that in the moments I've said or believed I was going to vote for Obama in the past, it came down to this:

Question 2008: Trillion-Dollar Social Experiments
Pre-Emptive Global Wars on "Terror" (_____) Universal Healthcare

a) >
b) <
c) =
d) None of the above

Now my answer looks more like this:

Question 2008: Trillion-Dollar Social Experiments
Pre-Emptive Global Wars on "Terror" (_____) Universal Healthcare

a) >
b) <
c) =
d) None of the above

3/14/2008 11:27:12 PM

as of right now i'd say dems got a 35 percent chance of winning in november and the repubs have like 65 percent chance to win

3/14/2008 11:31:18 PM

Do y'all think this pastor stuff will really affect Obama's chances?

3/14/2008 11:37:00 PM

personally, i do think it will

i bet its gonna be like 1984 all over again and the dems will win like 5 states

[Edited on March 14, 2008 at 11:38 PM. Reason : .]

3/14/2008 11:37:40 PM

Well, Obama came out with his "economic plan" today.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120663053070268727.html?mod=hps_us_whats_news

He wants to increase the capital gains tax to lower the deficit? As if there are not better ways to raise revenue? "Say, let's tax people for making investments that payoff!"

3/27/2008 8:57:03 PM

if those investments pay off isnt the person still making money?

3/27/2008 8:59:57 PM

I don't really care about a capital gains tax increase. We need to both raise revenue and cut spending down, because we shouldn't continue to deficit spend while expanding gov expenditures. None of the candidates are really proposing what I think are good plans. McCain hasn't really elaborated on what he thinks should happen, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's not a good thing. I don't really like Obama's or Hillary's brash supporting of bail outs and McCain's implicit supporting of bail outs though.

I do think however that Obama's push to review the executive powers would make him more amenable to at least considering reducing gov. powers elsewhere. And I think his other social ideas, particularly regarding welfare reform are worth supporting, and hoping congress can bash around some of his other spending plans.

3/27/2008 9:08:08 PM

^ But they are making less at the margin, which means they have less incentive to make investments in the future.

Taxing labor would be preferable to taxing capital, namely because labor has proven to be far less responsive to tax changes in the past. IOW: The supply of labor is relatively price inelastic.

That also means you will get more tax revenue from an increase in the income tax rate than a comparable increase in the capital gains tax.

3/27/2008 9:09:19 PM

yo man honestly i read the wiki of the fair tax and i super really like it

3/27/2008 9:10:28 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqA_v1fHsyk&feature=related

[Edited on March 27, 2008 at 9:57 PM. Reason : ]

3/27/2008 9:57:20 PM

Hillary Clinton just said "My mom would be a better president than my dad was"

3/28/2008 4:18:06 PM