3/16/2009 11:47:38 AM

Quote :

"Palin was rightly skewered as a political lightweight who wasn't ready for national office, but Biden puts his foot in his mouth just as regularly and gets none of the same criticism."

Biden puts his foot in his mouth, but he's not stupid. He just speaks when he shouldn't or when he doesn't know enough about the topic. Palin did that too, but of course, she knew almost nothing about any topic that was important. Therein lies the difference. You can't blame "the media" for Palin, I'm sorry. If you saw the debate, that was her best performance of the entire campaign, and all she did was parrot talking points and refuse to answer some of the questions (because she couldn't).

Quote :

"I'm not defending Palin or denigrating her, but how can anyone who actually voted for a ticket with Joe Biden, or Obama for that matter, call another candidate stupid? Biden is a laughingstock and Obama is fast becoming one."

He has a Juris Doctor, something I'd love to see Palin accomplish, and he actually knows about politics and can at least cite legal precedents that he disagrees with, at least one, I bet.

And if anyone literally thinks that Obama is stupid or that Palin's intelligence could be compared to his, well, I don't really know what to say to you. And he's only becoming a "laughingstock" in the dreams of you and your ilk, man. I'm sorry. His approval ratings are through the roof, and he's certainly handling this better than McCain could have. That guy doesn't know anything about the economy or how it works, so at least though Obama's obviously made some mistakes, he has some idea of what he's doing.

[Edited on March 16, 2009 at 1:36 PM. Reason : .]

3/16/2009 1:34:50 PM

1111

3/16/2009 4:03:53 PM

Quote :

"He has a Juris Doctor, something I'd love to see Palin accomplish, and he actually knows about politics and can at least cite legal precedents that he disagrees with, at least one, I bet."

George W. Bush has an advanced degree from the Ivy League...didnt stop libs from bashing him as stupid everytime he stuck his foot in his mouth.

Quote :

"he's certainly handling this better than McCain could have."

this, combined with your assertion that Palin couldnt get a J.D. deserves one big fat smelly

3/16/2009 5:17:38 PM

still no real accomplishments from Biden as a Senator. he's well educated, but what has he done that has benefited the country?

3/16/2009 6:20:41 PM

go look up his voting record if you're so concerned

3/16/2009 6:34:30 PM

You are making one weak-ass argument, Fail Boat. So, Obama rails against something and then will fucking sign into law that very thing, and that's not being contradictory? Give me a break! I am against taxing benefits, and that is one of the reasons I could not vote for McCain, so I think I have a pretty damned good leg to be standing on here. When a candidate gets up and makes part of his pitch the notion that X is extremely bad, I fucking expect that candidate NOT to sign legislation that does X. It's pretty simple.

And don't give me the bullshit about "He won't oppose a partisan agreement from Congress." That can't deflect criticism. It didn't work for the H.W Bush with "No New Taxes," and I sure as fuck will NOT give Obama a pass on effectively the same thing.

3/16/2009 7:43:15 PM

update: he's still very credible with 9th graders

my girlfriend teaches 9th grade and a girl did some kind of report on Obama and she said this:

-Obama is going to lower gas prices
-Obama is going to lower taxes
-Obama is going to send kids to college
-Obama is making the economy better

In the class Q&A after the report, she provided this gem:

Question: What is his full race?

Answer: He is black, and that is the only thing that matters.

3/17/2009 11:25:11 AM

Quote :

"His approval ratings are through the roof, and he's certainly handling this better than McCain could have. That guy doesn't know anything about the economy or how it works, so at least though Obama's obviously made some mistakes, he has some idea of what he's doing."

You make my brain hurt so much.

3/17/2009 11:30:53 AM

'tis the point... but I'm sorry if reality hurts. You can stay in fantasyland forever, I won't bother you with it anymore.

3/17/2009 11:42:34 AM

I am disappointed that Obama has made it known early that he might relent on the benefits tax issue. I would have appreciated his situation more if he had opposed taxing benefits until it was clear that this concession was neccesary to keep legislation moving.

I don't really think of it as a major campaign issue or a significant part of his platform, and it's not a complete reversal. That said, I haven't found a adequate explanation for this reversal and its disappointing.

3/17/2009 11:51:35 AM

Quote :

"You can stay in fantasyland forever"

did you even go back and read your own post?

3/17/2009 1:53:19 PM

Unfortunately, I was too annoyed by yours to bother

3/17/2009 2:05:16 PM

^^ he talked a lot of shit when McCain supported this. he's also now saying that the fundamentals of the economy are strong, another thing he ridiculed McCain for.

3/17/2009 3:56:12 PM

Actually, one of his advisers said that, not Obama himself. Also, the adviser said the "fundamentals are sound," while McCain said the "fundamentals are strong." Play word games all you like, but those are very different. The fundamentals have been *sound* this entire time, but certainly not *strong*. Feel free to compare the two in a dictionary.

Just to be clear. Also, they obviously do think the fundamentals are sounder now than they were then, now that they've implemented some of their own policies to try and fix things. You may disagree, but they are justified in thinking, at least in their minds, that they've made some fixes.

You know who else didn't say it? Biden - but Fox would have you believe he did:

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/03/16/fox-news-fundamentals/

Quote :

"But the clip of Biden seemingly making a recent remark about the strength of the economy is grossly inaccurate. The Biden statement was actually from last September — during the presidential campaign — when he was quoting Sen. John McCain (R-AZ). Here’s what Biden really said: Ladies and gentlemen, I believe that’s why John McCain could say with a straight face as recently as this morning and this is a quote, “the fundamentals of the economy are strong.” That’s what John said. He says that “We’ve made great progress economically in the Bush years.”"

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 4:35 PM. Reason : .]

3/17/2009 4:32:09 PM

Quote :

"Also, they obviously do think the fundamentals are sounder now than they were then, now that they've implemented some of their own policies to try and fix things. You may disagree, but they are justified in thinking, at least in their minds, that they've made some fixes."

So which fixes were these? I know it's hard to pick one of the many policies that have been implemented since Obama's inauguaration that has turned out to be tremendous because the economy has really shaped up since but I'm curious which one in particular made it more strong... ERRRR I MEAN SOUND, HUGE DIFFERENCE

3/17/2009 4:39:39 PM

It IS a huge difference. I'm sorry you don't realize that. Maybe I need to show you the definitions myself:

Sound: solid , firm ; also : stable

Strong: 1: having or marked by great physical power
2: having moral or intellectual power
3: having great resources (as of wealth or talent)
5 a: striking or superior of its kind <a strong resemblance

So when McCain said the fundamentals of the economy were *strong*, he was obviously incorrect. They were sound, however, when McCain made his comment, and they still are. They were not strong. They still are not. However, Obama's team has not once said that they were. If they had, I'd be right with you.

Now that we've gotten through basic 3rd grade vocabulary, let's move on to reading comprehension:

Quote :

"So which fixes were these? I know it's hard to pick one of the many policies that have been implemented since Obama's inauguaration that has turned out to be tremendous because the economy has really shaped up since but I'm curious which one in particular made it more strong"

What I said:

Quote :

"Also, they obviously do think the fundamentals are sounder now than they were then, now that they've implemented some of their own policies to try and fix things. You may disagree, but they are justified in thinking, at least in their minds, that they've made some fixes."

To make that less complicated for you, what I said was that they obviously are going to think that what they've done has helped. Maybe it has - we won't know until it's had time to percolate - but clearly they're not going to pursue policies that will intentionally make the economy LESS sound, right? We can surely agree on that.

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 4:48 PM. Reason : ,]

3/17/2009 4:46:44 PM

itt we play semantecs to prove why our crappy leader x is better than crappy leader y.

3/17/2009 4:51:02 PM

I'm doing nothing of the kind. I'm displaying the very important distinction between two very different words, which these guys either don't see or are purposely ignoring for reasons of propaganda. It's their ignoring of important semantic points that irks me more than any kind of attack on the president. He can defend himself if he feels he needs to do so.

For the record, though, Obama's obviously WAY better than Bush. I do think that

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 4:53 PM. Reason : .]

3/17/2009 4:52:57 PM

He is better than bush in theory, but so far in practice theres not much of a difference.

3/17/2009 5:17:55 PM

rasmussen has obama at 53% approval rating .. and 1/3rd are about to or close to turning ..
this is according to cnn and cnn.com last friday

3/17/2009 5:22:17 PM

^^ well, considering all Bush had done by this point in his first term was create the office of Faith-Based Initiatives (he was still 3 months away from passing his tax-cut plan) I would say Obama has so far had a much bigger impact, given the Executive Orders and the legislation he's worked with in Congress, than Bush by March, 2001.

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 5:23 PM. Reason : .]

3/17/2009 5:23:43 PM

Quote :

"It IS a huge difference. I'm sorry you don't realize that. Maybe I need to show you the definitions myself: Sound: solid , firm ; also : stable Strong: 1: having or marked by great physical power 2: having moral or intellectual power 3: having great resources (as of wealth or talent) 5 a: striking or superior of its kind <a strong resemblance So when McCain said the fundamentals of the economy were *strong*, he was obviously incorrect. They were sound, however, when McCain made his comment, and they still are. They were not strong. They still are not. However, Obama's team has not once said that they were. If they had, I'd be right with you."

How about we have a discussion without you being a condescending prick?

All you Obama supporters jumped on McCain's comments but he clarified what he meant by adding this later -- "but those fundamentals -- the American worker and their innovation, their entrepreneurship, the small business, those are the fundamentals of America, and I think they're strong." How is he "obviously incorrect" in that opinion?

Even if you don't buy that explanation from McCain, how is saying the current economy is sound right now any better than saying it was strong even if it was not? What is stable, firm, or solid about the fundamentals of the current economy? If anything, it's the complete opposite.

3/17/2009 6:12:40 PM

Quote :

"I would say Obama has so far had a much bigger impact, given the Executive Orders and the legislation he's worked with in Congress, than Bush by March, 2001. "

hard to disagree with this.

DirtyGreek I know you are have strong opinions but you usually dont make such ridiculous statements (then accuse others of being in fantasyland).

3/17/2009 7:04:52 PM

Anyone that thinks this economy is sound...so long as the powers that be keep fucking with it...is a first class idiot.

3/17/2009 8:23:53 PM

Have you all discussed this shit yet?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/4953523/Barack-Obama-too-tired-to-give-proper-welcome-to-Gordon-Brown.html


"But they concede that the mood music of the event was at times strained. Mr Brown handed over carefully selected gifts, including a pen holder made from the wood of a warship that helped stamp out the slave trade - a sister ship of the vessel from which timbers were taken to build Mr Obama's Oval Office desk. Mr Obama's gift in return, a collection of Hollywood film DVDs that could have been bought from any high street store, looked like the kind of thing the White House might hand out to the visiting head of a minor African state."

From the NY Daily News:

After Brown presented Obama with a pen holder crafted from the timbers of the 19th century British warship HMS President (whose sister ship, HMS Resolute, provided the wood for the Oval Office's desk), Obama offered up ... 25 DVDs of American movie classics.
"Oh, give me strength," wrote one appalled Daily Telegraph staffer. "We do have television and DVD stores on this side of the Atlantic."

Never mind that Brown is blind in one eye and may have a hard time seeing the stars in "2001: A Space Odyssey," or that American DVDs are usually incompatible with British players.

Equally insulting, decided the Times of London, was Michelle Obama's "solipsistic" and "inherently dismissive" gifts to the Browns' two little boys, Fraser and John.

The offending souvenirs? Toy models of Marine One, the President's helicopter — gifts no doubt plucked from the White House gift shop at the last minute, The Times decided. Brown's wife, Sarah, by contrast arrived with dresses for Sasha and Malia from the UK's trendy Top Shop (with matching necklaces) and a selection of books by British authors.

3/17/2009 9:05:41 PM

Yes

"Oh, give me strength," wrote one appalled Wolf Web poster. "We do have book stores on this side of the Atlantic."

3/17/2009 9:07:24 PM

^lol, nice. Forgive me, I was a community orgainzer before I posted and am really in over my head.

Can I blame Rush or bush for this?

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 9:09 PM. Reason : .]

3/17/2009 9:08:22 PM

Quote :

"How about we have a discussion without you being a condescending prick?"

If I am that today, I apologize. My cousin is back in the hospital with leukemia for the 5th time and will probably die soon. I have been overly mean to people today. That's not to say I don't mean what I've said today - I pretty much do - but my tone has been... unfortunate.

Still, I have to say, having to explain the difference between "sound" and "strong" is something that shouldn't be necessary.

3/18/2009 12:31:20 AM

Sorry to hear that about your cousin...


If it's wrong to say they are strong, it's equally wrong to say they are sound.

3/18/2009 7:52:01 AM

^ I would agree. The words may be lexically different, but they have the same ultimate meaning in the contexts given

3/18/2009 8:04:03 AM

http://www.thestreet.com/story/10473731/1/citis-top-economist-to-join-treasury.html?cm_ven=GOOGLEFI

A former Citi exec going to the Treasury. Brilliant!

3/18/2009 8:42:05 AM

Quote :

" I would say Obama has so far had a much bigger impact"

Oh I agree hes passed a load of worthless legislation thats going to do more harm than good. At least when bush passed his worthless legislation it didn't do anything.

3/18/2009 9:20:02 AM

Quote :

"The words may be lexically different, but they have the same ultimate meaning in the contexts given"

I'm sorry, I just disagree. They're completely different words with completely different definitions. It's like saying "ok" and "awesome" are the same. They're not.

3/18/2009 9:25:29 AM

For your average Joe on the street, they might as well be the same.

3/18/2009 9:35:08 AM

Luckily, the dudes running our country aren't. If people can't determine the difference, there's nothing anyone can do about that. We can't expect our president to speak monosyllabically.

3/18/2009 9:38:38 AM

Quote :

"So when McCain said the fundamentals of the economy were *strong*, he was obviously incorrect. They were sound, however, when McCain made his comment, and they still are."

It does seem to matter though, because average Joes out on the street seem to think they are sound.

3/18/2009 9:44:10 AM

Ugh

3/18/2009 9:59:03 AM

Don't get frustrated with me because you are blindly towing the party line on the economy.

3/18/2009 10:11:38 AM

Haha, man, I said the fundamentals were sound when Bush was in office too. All I'm saying is they're still sound. We can't know if Obama's policies will work until we've given them time. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. I'd hardly call any of that towing any party line.

3/18/2009 10:12:56 AM

What are the fundamentals and how are they sound?

Most measures of credit were at apocalyptic levels when McCain was making those statements. They have come down a lot but have recently ticked back up in some aspects.

We have the American taxpayer making backdoor bailouts of private institutions (some foreign) who didn't properly vet their counterparties.

We have a Treasury Secretary, who after 2 months on the job has a plan for a plan. That's it.

Home prices still have a ways to tumble to come back to historic averages.

We have and FDIC with $19 billion in assets backstopping $5 trillion in liabilities.

We have recently racked up a HUGE deficit as we attempt to inflate a bubble that can't be inflated again.

The list goes on and on.

Nothing sound at all about that.

3/18/2009 10:20:24 AM

During a time of economic hard times and serious trouble, our savior decides to go on the Leno show. Never mind that the gov just basically printed 1 trillion bucks.

3/19/2009 5:18:58 PM

Yeah, he filled out a bracket too. It's even rumored he is sleeping at night and occasionally eats. What the fuck is that about?

3/19/2009 5:28:48 PM

You people are reaching so much and I love it

Either way I hope Obama takes a page from Reagan's playbook and spends even more than we're currently spending to stimulate the economy

Of course, only if he changed the page that stipulated it be spent on silly wartoy penis compensators

[Edited on March 19, 2009 at 5:30 PM. Reason : .]

3/19/2009 5:29:35 PM

I know, right? I mean, if he hadn't spent 20 minutes talking to Jay Leno, he probably would have fixed everything by now

Look - he's trying to talk to "the people," and he's trying to use different means than normal. He regularly posts videos on youtube, he (the administration) has several blogs, he has a massive email list, etc. Going on Leno is just another way to reach yet another larger audience and get his message out.


when a reporter catches him on the golf course trying to impress them with "his drive", let us know, k?

[Edited on March 19, 2009 at 5:33 PM. Reason : .]

3/19/2009 5:32:18 PM

Quote :

"Look - he's trying to talk to "the people," and he's trying to use different means than normal. "

All true I guess, but you can't deny that it's pretty obvious the guy loves the spotlight - Leno, multiple prime time press conferences, calling newspapers personally to respond to things. If you like him, I guess it's pretty smart, considering his celebrity-type status... it'll definitely reach more people than normal methods would.

3/19/2009 5:54:42 PM

you're faulting the President of the Unites States for "loving the spotlight" during the most devastating financial situation in 60 years?

Again, as I recall, the Previous Occupant had a record low number of press conferences, addresses to the Nation, etc. And even though many of us cringed whenever the buffoon was on TV, it's still important for the President to talk to the country and stay visible.

3/19/2009 6:06:18 PM

STOP TALKING AND GET TO WORK!

3/19/2009 6:30:26 PM

Quote :

"you're faulting the President of the Unites States for "loving the spotlight" during the most devastating financial situation in 60 years?"

What does going on Leno accomplish that his prime time press conference coming up couldn't already do?

I wasn't faulting him for anything actually.... I was just saying it's pretty obvious he likes the extra attention and being the president gives him the opportunity to maximize it. That's his style, whatever

3/19/2009 7:21:19 PM

Quote :

"What does going on Leno accomplish that his prime time press conference coming up couldn't already do"

umm.... maybe reach an audience who is watching TV at 11:30 and not 9:00.
Or reach an audience in a more informal setting instead of preempting regular programming for a tele-prompted and scripted speech.

3/19/2009 7:27:28 PM