I'm solidly in the Buttigeig camp.

3/27/2019 6:34:10 PM

Right now me too

3/27/2019 8:37:19 PM

I'm more in the "elect an adult, but not a geriatric" camp atm.

3/27/2019 10:14:19 PM

^^^ don’t know enough about him yet.

As of now, I’m hoping for Biden to run and stand up firmly for the middle. Otherwise, fuck it.

3/28/2019 1:48:21 AM

Yes fuck it then

3/28/2019 7:28:51 AM

Quote :

"I'm more in the "elect an adult, but not a geriatric" camp atm."

I guess that gives you a much shorter list, then. Bernie, Biden, Warren, Inslee, and Hickenlooper would all be among our five oldest presidents, if elected; I'd say that qualifies for geriatric status. In fact the first three would be the oldest elected.

Castro, Buttigeig, and Gabbard would be among the five youngest. Darn kids!

So that leaves you with O'Rourke (barely), Booker, Gillibrand, Harris, and Klobuchar, all solidly middle aged but not yet senile. Who's it going to be?

I agree with you that Buttigeig's youth is a liability, but I don't necessarily think it would make him a worse president. On inauguration day he'd be about four years younger than Teddy Roosevelt, who no one today would think of as a child, and whose presidency is generally lauded.

3/28/2019 10:54:47 AM

Quote :

" guess that gives you a much shorter list, then. Bernie, Biden, Warren, Inslee, and Hickenlooper would all be among our five oldest presidents"

Last 3 are late 60's...not optimal but also not geriatric.

Quote :

"In fact the first three would be the oldest elected."

First two would be, not Warren.

Quote :

"Otherwise, fuck it."

That's kind of your MO though...not really an "otherwise" situation for you

3/28/2019 11:08:30 AM

Warren will be 71 on election day, Trump was 70.

Also I didn't realize Warren was that old, she seems to be in super great shape for that age.

3/28/2019 12:05:29 PM

This is saying buttigieg is anti-free trade:


https://piie.com/blogs/trade-investment-policy-watch/where-do-democratic-presidential-candidates-stand-trade

3/28/2019 12:53:21 PM

Quote :

"First two would be, not Warren. "

Now, I majored in political science for a reason, and the reason is I'm bad at math. But I think even I can figure out this one. Warren's 69 years old and will tour 70 in June 2019. In June 2020, she'll turn 71. Donald Trump was 70 years old when he got elected. And 71>70.

I know some of you guys love Warren but you don't get to break math in her favor. She's old.

Quote :

"This is saying buttigieg is anti-free trade:"

Yeah, I've seen a couple of things that hint that, which isn't great. But I'm sure I'll hear a lot more details by the time the primaries get here.

3/29/2019 9:34:42 AM

him saying that NAFTA lost jobs will help among young people and the left but because he hasn't said more on the subject I'd imagine the right-wing "centrists" are still okay with him

he should be the candidate the establishment wants to get behind, even if it's just to start grooming him now for other higher offices

3/29/2019 9:56:30 AM

Quote :

" And 71>70"

Reagan was 73 when [re]elected to office.

3/29/2019 10:31:51 AM

And if Warren wins in 2020 and then again in 2024, she'll be the oldest person [re]elected, too.

3/29/2019 10:52:24 AM

Warren comes off as more vibrant at her age than Hillary, trump, or Bernie were.

3/29/2019 11:43:12 AM

Is Biden going to be sunk by hair sniffing?

3/29/2019 10:12:14 PM

and the kiss

3/29/2019 10:14:22 PM

I strongly dislike Biden running, and I think it's atrocious they're including him in polls at this stage. He's taking the spotlight away from some great candidates. His entry is going to mess up the race. He's going to shit on the progressives and give centrist voters more reason to turn away from democrats.

3/29/2019 10:15:50 PM

speaking of Pete Buttchug, his appearance last month on Colbert is being re-aired tonight, fyi

3/29/2019 10:30:24 PM

Quote :

"I think it's atrocious they're including him in polls at this stage"

That's pretty strong.

3/30/2019 12:07:56 AM

^^^^^^^I know that things have been trending differently in the past couple decades, but on average, women still live longer and are healthier than men.

Many of them also have to raise their children before they even get to consider participating in public life.

Anyway, they often have late starts and longer roads, so we shouldn't be surprised or concerned when they're older.

3/30/2019 3:45:00 PM

Certainly we shouldn't be surprised, but increasingly I find myself coming over to the idea that candidate age is a perfectly valid concern, and not just for the usual, somewhat dubious reasons ("They might die! They might go senile!"). Bernie, Biden, and Warren will all be dead before they have to see many of the consequences of their policies. That's a mark against them, in my mind. Not an enormous, I'll-never-vote-for-a-geezer-again mark, but it's a mark. Is it fair that society has created circumstances under which Warren has this unfortunate characteristic of advanced age? No. Does that make the characteristic go away? Also no.

That said, if any of the geriatric bunch wins the nomination, I will youthfully skip my way down to the polls to vote for them.

3/31/2019 11:38:01 AM

How can it be so obvious to everyone in the whole world (and not you) that you're a fucking moron?

Why do words come out of your mouth and your dumb dumb fingers?

3/31/2019 7:57:27 PM

Yo, how has Biden not been #meToo'd yet? That's coming, right? Like, we all see the allegations coming from a mile away, yes? I mean, there's obviously going to be more incidents that are even more damaging, right?

[Edited on March 31, 2019 at 9:14 PM. Reason : ]

3/31/2019 9:09:33 PM

Time for Uncle Joe to take a nap from politics for a while.

4/1/2019 2:14:03 AM

^^^I'm actually really good at fooling people about the whole "fucking moron" thing, having repeatedly duped people into giving me jobs, college degrees, and Jeopardy appearances.

But I must be pretty dumb, because I can't figure out what you want us to say here. Elizabeth Warren had a longer and harder road than she would have if she'd been a man. Agreed. I'd still prefer a younger candidate. Sorry.

4/1/2019 7:22:40 AM

You’re still talking.

Like, no irony or nothing. Just flapping your fucking gums.

4/1/2019 5:34:11 PM

I've seen more than a few comments trying to blame Biden being called out on Sanders supporters

jfc

4/1/2019 6:53:20 PM

I’ve seen sanders supporters and Beto supporters get blamed.

I don’t personally think it’s a big deal in the sense that he clearly didn’t mean harm or intimidation, but it does demonstrate how Biden has failed to update his social heuristics for changing times and is ill- suited to be president.

One thing i commend Bernie and warren on is they seem to have done a better job keeping up with changing times.

4/1/2019 9:36:20 PM

I'd like Biden to stay out, but wish it weren't over this. I also wish energy weren't being wasted trying to ascribe blame. Like moron said, it doesn't look like uncle Joe was trying to harm or intimidate, not does there even seem to be a sexual element, but everyone knows he expresses attention in ways that are bound to make some people uncomfortable anyway. This was inevitably going to happen; better it happen now, early, rather than in the general.

4/2/2019 10:56:07 AM

Quote :

"Biden has failed to update his social heuristics for changing times and is ill- suited to be president."

That makes someone ill-suited to be President?

4/2/2019 11:26:09 AM

I mean....yes? A person that can't keep it together to fit in appropriately in society is going to be trusted to run an entire country?

4/2/2019 12:30:49 PM

Quote :

"BUTTIGIEG on free college: Americans who have a college degree earn more than Americans who don't. As a progressive, I have a hard time getting my head around the idea a majority who earn less because they didn't go to college subsidize a minority who earn more because they did"

Jesus....

4/3/2019 9:10:48 PM

this is why i said he's the candidate the establishment should get behind, he's not "radical"

and for context, even bernie sanders isn't calling for free university for all

4/4/2019 8:43:19 AM

I ask in total ignorance: what is he calling for? What other proposals are out there?

I admit I haven't paid much attention because I think this issue is unlikely to reach the stage of policy changes over the next term or two.

4/4/2019 9:24:54 AM

climate change is a major priority and national security threat, universal background checks for guns, pull out of afghanistan, nafta lost jobs and democrats need to do more for working class people, single payer but not completely replace private insurance, pro DACA and pathway to citizenship, wants to pass federal equality act, pro reproductive rights, black lives matter but also police are okay and said all lives matter around the same time clinton said it

... i think that's most of what we know about his policy positions

4/4/2019 10:08:59 AM

Sorry, I meant: what is he calling for regarding college and paying for it? I believe you that he's not proposing free college for everybody, but I don't know what he's proposing instead.

4/4/2019 10:20:35 AM

in the same event where he said that he called for more loan forgiveness programs, more pell grants, lowering tuition costs by states paying more of the share, more financial aid programs (i think that's what he meant, he said something like accessible programs or something), lowering interest rates for people to refinance

4/4/2019 10:27:37 AM

I don't necessarily hold free college as some key issue, just the way he dismissed seemed....dumb? Silly? Naive? I don't know, those are all fairly harsh but he seems to dismiss idea and misunderstand how it would work all at the same time.

4/4/2019 10:51:10 AM

Quote :

"Sorry, I meant: what is he calling for regarding college and paying for it? I believe you that he's not proposing free college for everybody, but I don't know what he's proposing instead."

I had to re-read his quote like 5 times, buuuut....I think he's calling for "nothing." He's calling to keep higher education exactly as it is (which is extremely un-affordable and a barrier to entry for poor people.)

i.e, he's concocting a reason to sound progressive by saying that using taxes to subsidize higher education is somehow regressive in that it would also tax the poor (even though they are the same people who would benefit the most from NOT having to pay for a college education). He's using an extreme form of "uhmmmm akkkshually you guiiiise" logic.

4/4/2019 11:20:39 AM

I think he's saying the opposite, actually.

As in, "Isn't it fucked up that poor people are helping to subsidize those who go on to earn more than they do with a college degree?"

And at face value, yeah. It is fucked up that people with less opportunity are footing the bill for those who'll get a leg up on them.

However, he's just making an observation and offering nothing to really fix it. It doesn't mean he's OK with it though; it just means he's pointing it out.

4/4/2019 11:26:53 AM

Quote :

"He's calling to keep higher education exactly as it is "

so the stuff he said he wants to change was what?

4/4/2019 11:36:51 AM

^^I don't.....think so? The way it's worded makes it sound like he only wants those who go to college to be the ones who pay for it, which is basically the system we currently have. The only way poor people would pay would be via taxes (and therefore receive the benefit of the college education that triggers the pay gap he mentioned), which would be a system that we don't currently have.


He's basically framing this as a middle class vs lower class issue, rather than pointing out how the upper class is not paying anything with regards to public education

[Edited on April 4, 2019 at 12:23 PM. Reason : ]

4/4/2019 12:13:22 PM

he's saying that he acknowledges that if it was free for everyone that would be regressive

4/4/2019 12:18:28 PM

^ which would only be true if it were funded through vice taxes like gambling or soda or whatever that disproportionately targets poorer communities. If it were a tax on the rich, it wouldn't be regressive

4/4/2019 12:26:46 PM

1. you could fund free college probably without touching the lowest tax bracket
2. college is ALREADY partially subsidized by taxpayers

4/4/2019 12:30:49 PM

^^you still need to cap it, i think sanders proposed cap was $125k

Quote :

"2. college is ALREADY partially subsidized by taxpayers"

and buttigieg is calling for more of that



[Edited on April 4, 2019 at 12:32 PM. Reason : .]

4/4/2019 12:30:56 PM

^ yes, but without addressing point #1

4/4/2019 12:34:40 PM

no money from the lowest tax brackets currently goes to university funding?

4/4/2019 12:36:51 PM

I'm reading his comment as an attempt to side-step the necessity of raising taxes on the highest bracket on order to subsidize college. He's cynically trying to kneecap the issue by narrowing the the issue as something that can only be funded by taxing the middle and lower class (which would, in fact, be regressive). Raising taxes on the rich to pay for college would be PROGRESSIVE (like, by definition), but he doesn't even seem to consider that a possibility.


I mean, whatever, he's not a real candidate, just like Yang isn't a real candidate, so it doesn't matter. But his role seems to be to narrow the scope of economic policy debate as an issue between middle and lower class voters

4/4/2019 12:46:49 PM

Guys, I'm sorry, apparently I'm having a lot of trouble communicating this morning.

In response to:

Quote :

"bernie sanders isn't calling for free university for all "

I asked

Quote :

"what is he calling for?"

As in, what is Bernie Sanders proposing that isn't free college?

I should have been more explicit. My apologies. But I have only ever heard the hyperbole/parody of Bernie's thoughts on paying for college and would like his supporters to give me their version.

4/4/2019 12:51:46 PM