apples to oranges, my friend

we won 20 games and went to many consecutive NCAAs because UNC went 8-20

1/10/2010 7:40:20 PM

Quote :

"Comments like that are why everyone sees you as a troll. FYI"

Then just ignore me if you think I'm such a troll.

1/10/2010 7:41:02 PM

i like you, BB

good people

1/10/2010 7:44:11 PM

Quote :

"My favorite Sendek play was when Jordan Collins would get it at the top of the key, 25' from the basket, and just hold the ball and rotate on his pivot foot for 5-6 seconds."

hahah yes this was key

1/10/2010 7:48:15 PM

Collins was great though...6'10" 240...could hit open 3 pointers...and 80% + FT shooter...always nice to have

1/10/2010 7:53:27 PM

wasn't he the only 4 year starter ever at Dematha?

1/10/2010 8:06:02 PM

not sure, but just look at his face...this is the look of a composed leader...focus...not too high or too low...the perfect warrior

1/10/2010 8:07:55 PM

what the fuck is herbie doing in that pic?

1/10/2010 8:10:38 PM

getting in the way of Collins' focus

1/10/2010 8:11:07 PM

hahaha

1/10/2010 8:11:13 PM

1/10/2010 8:11:35 PM

is that windows 98?

1/10/2010 8:12:47 PM

Naw, its windows 3,287.

1/10/2010 8:20:42 PM

i think its NT 4.0

then run the math on his 3,287 rebounds if you assume 40 games a year over 4 years



[Edited on January 10, 2010 at 8:24 PM. Reason : .]

1/10/2010 8:23:41 PM

looks like Paul Hewitt finally remembered how to coach again. his team is ranked and beat #5 Duke after finishing 12th place in the ACC last season

-the same way Roy was a great coach in Lawson/Felton's final seasons
-the same way Leonard Hamilton was ACC coach of the year when he had Toney Douglas
-the same way Matt Doherty was National coach of the year with Joe Forte and then fired 2 seasons later
-the same way Dave Leitao was ACC coach of the year at UVA when he had Sean Singletary and then fired a year later
-the same way Skip Prosser was ACC coach of the year when he had Josh Howard
-the same way UNC blewout everyone last year except the game Lawson was injured. i guess Roy forgot how to coach that game only
-the same way UNC was a good team this year until Ginyard/Graves were both injured
-the same way Davidson was good the last 2 seasons with Steph curry and sucks balls now
-the same way Lowe was a decent coach when Atsur was healthy
-the same way Lowe was a decent coach before Degand blew out his knee
-the same way Tom O'Brien was a great coach when Russell Wilson and Nate Irving were both healthy

Lowe cannot win games with bad players. he might be able to win games with good players. we will find out soon

1/10/2010 9:06:43 PM

^ not sure any of those coaches ever finished bottom 3 of the ACC 4 years in a row?

1/10/2010 9:15:12 PM

^^The media started talking about Lowe being one of the best coaches around when we were having that magical march with a healthy, solid PG in Atsur. If we had him today we'd have 4+ more wins so far

1/10/2010 9:19:45 PM

^^^ "-the same way Lowe was a decent coach when Atsur was healthy"

Is it possible that Atsur was not a naturally athletic, physically dominant, McDonalds All-Turkey athelete?

Is it possible that some portion of his success as a senior was due to his previous coach having the intelligence to teach him basketball?

[Edited on January 10, 2010 at 9:30 PM. Reason : my point is Lowe gets no credit for recruiting or training Atsur.]

[Edited on January 10, 2010 at 9:34 PM. Reason : .]

1/10/2010 9:27:43 PM

^ http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=15353

[Edited on January 10, 2010 at 9:37 PM. Reason : My point is he was no superstar, but he came in playing a lot better than any of our current PGs]

1/10/2010 9:31:25 PM

emory you're making my point for me. Lowe didn't make Atsur good. Atsur was good, that's why we won when he was healthy and lost a bunch of games that season when he wasn't healthy.


yes, Leonard Hamilton started out his first 3 seasons in the ACC at the bottom 3, then magically was a good coach once he got a good guard in Toney Douglas

[Edited on January 10, 2010 at 9:41 PM. Reason : a]

1/10/2010 9:36:39 PM

^I don't get it.

All I'm saying is that Lowe has never been a decent coach, even with Hickson who was a great player.

1/10/2010 9:38:07 PM

^ You do realize pretty much every player he listed was a guard, right? He's not talking about just great players, he is talking about great guards.

1/10/2010 9:39:35 PM

Well, I think it's obvious that Lowe cannot find a way to compete with mediocre talent the way Herb did.

So I guess we are just gonna have to wait until he recruits his way to success?

Really? Does anyone think that is actually going to happen?

1/10/2010 9:40:25 PM

^ read the thread dude, we've already discussed this crap

1/10/2010 9:41:47 PM

I agree with Tal. I was an Atsur fan. I was a Herb fan. The games were boring to watch, but at least they were close.

I don't see myself being satisfied to wait for a 5 star point guard to finally come to our school. I see more John Wall disappointments.

If by some miracle we do get one to come here, it will only be because UNC and Duke are already stacked 3 deep at SG and PG, and we will get a one-and-done Hickson type.

Coaching is more than recruiting. Talented coaches can win with less than talented athletes. Talented athletes follow talented coaches. I don't see Lowe getting the ball rolling.

1/10/2010 9:46:00 PM

I agree 100% emory in that Lowe was riding Sendek's coattails with Atsur's cerebral play. Degand/Mays/Javi have not come close to playing as smart as Atsur.

It's year #4 folks.

Quote :

"yes, Leonard Hamilton started out his first 3 seasons in the ACC at the bottom 3, then magically was a good coach once he got a good guard in Toney Douglas"

Hamilton is one of the worst coaches in the ACC. He's squandered so much talent it's criminal.

[Edited on January 10, 2010 at 9:48 PM. Reason : .]

1/10/2010 9:46:14 PM

most acc coaches are horrible and we still suck. it's pathetic

I saw the end of the MD/FSU game today. FSU was down 7 with a minute+ to play. They waited 40 seconds to foul. Hamilton is garbage but he looks good compared to some of the other crap out there

1/10/2010 9:51:56 PM

^^ exactly. he's a terrible coach. yet even he was named Coach of the Year when he had Toney Douglas

[Edited on January 10, 2010 at 9:52 PM. Reason : a]

1/10/2010 9:52:10 PM

then your argument is coaches are negligible? This isn't baseball holmes.

1/10/2010 9:54:01 PM

shoot, even Herb Sendek won an ACC coach of the year thanks to point-forward Julius Hodge

1/10/2010 9:56:13 PM

emory. how long are you planning on it taking for Lowe to get a 5 star point guard?

1/10/2010 9:56:20 PM

Quote :

" I don't see myself being satisfied to wait for a 5 star point guard to finally come to our school. I see more John Wall disappointments."

Well next year we have a five star who has signed his letter of intent named ryan harrow. Oh and another five star guard signed named Lorenzo Brown... So you really can't wait until next year for some real talent at guard and would rather start all over again?

1/10/2010 9:58:00 PM

lol at him not wanting to wait ~5 months for 2 5-star guards, both of whom can play the point, to enroll

1/10/2010 9:59:00 PM

Look, I was sad when Herb left because I liked him, but I felt he had hit a ceiling and like everyone else, I wanted something better for our program.

I was happy when Lowe came on as head coach. I was excited. He was an alum, a fan, and a member of our championship squad. I wanted it to work. I bleed State Red and I supported him 110%.

I have waited patiently and given the man time to do his job. He does it poorly. My mind is not 100% made up, but if there were a jury in my head, 11 people would give Lowe the electric chair and the other one is Pauley Shore.

1/10/2010 10:01:11 PM

i'm not saying coaching is negligible. and the florida marlins beat the yankees and I couldn't name 1 player on the marlins that year

pick any coach ever and give him five 1star players. give me five 5 star players. his team can practice for a month and mine will just play pickup for a month. my team will win 9/10 games against his.

coaching matters, but players matter more

1/10/2010 10:04:03 PM

^^ Fine, I will wait till next year. We will have two awesome guards and maybe we will go .500, but most likely we will suck and some ppl on here will say it is because they are just freshmen and they need time.

Then the next year it will be because one of them got hurt.

Then the next year it will be because one of them left to the NBA.

1/10/2010 10:04:33 PM

I really think with dominant guards just about any coach can get it done. We are where we were expected to be this year by just about everyone why is everyone jumping off the deep end?

[Edited on January 10, 2010 at 10:07 PM. Reason : nm beat me to it.]

1/10/2010 10:05:19 PM

Quote :

"^ read the thread dude, we've already discussed this crap"

1/10/2010 10:08:35 PM

This thread is now for discussing how awesome Jordan Collins was dude, get with the picture.

1/10/2010 10:10:53 PM

Herb was 3 times the coach that Sydney is. Thats all there is to it. Herb would have taken the team we had last year and made it to the 2nd round of the NCAA's. In order for Lowe to be successfull we have to get recruits who can create their own shots and we don't have that right now. Our best players are Smith and Javi. Smith is a slightly above average post player and Javi goes brain dead on occasion.

1/10/2010 10:12:02 PM

^herb had the #3 draft pick last year and only made it to the 2nd weekend of the ncaa

[Edited on January 10, 2010 at 10:15 PM. Reason : a]

1/10/2010 10:14:22 PM

it's not really fair to compare the two because Herb had a head start

he had 20x more head coaching experience than Sid did when he got here

1/10/2010 10:15:22 PM

Whatever, I am going to the bar.

Lowe sucks and I think our team is going to suck until we find somebody else. I seriously hope I am wrong about this, but I doubt it.

Anybody who has more patience with Lowe than I do is obviously a better fan and maybe even a better person. I am the immature, impatient, 'rabid' type of NC State fan who wants to beat UNC on the 26th of THIS MONTH and I think we should have the kind of coach who makes me want to watch the game sober and not have backup plans for the second half.

That is all.

1/10/2010 10:15:26 PM

If Herb is 3x the Coach that Lowe is, I guess Lowe's team would've only put 12.3 points up on Arizona?

1/10/2010 10:15:48 PM

Herb might be 3 times the coach Sydney is, but Sidney Lowe is at least as good as Herb provided both have their ideal teams on roster

This thread needs to be about how Cam Bennerman is the best guard to play at NC State since Fire and Ice

1/10/2010 10:17:03 PM

I really doubt Sendek would take these players anywhere. The only one who is a Sendekian recruit is Horner. Sendek would be trying to teach Smith how to shoot three pointer... That being said I was a big fan of Sendek. He realized he couldn't compete with Duke an UNC for recruits so he went with a system to use recruits with a different skill set.

1/10/2010 10:17:24 PM

I would LOL at Tracy in the weave and heave.


Would also LOL when all CJ Williams did was weave

1/10/2010 10:19:23 PM

Herb was such a great coach, that we'd routinely get 15-20 point leads and have the other team make adjustments and come back and beat us

1/10/2010 10:19:32 PM

^And have the most talented team we've had since Fire and Ice lose to Seton Hall by 20+

1/10/2010 10:20:47 PM

set em up

1/10/2010 10:21:09 PM