Quote :

"nc statute > wikipedia..."

you only wish.

3/12/2008 6:16:32 PM

hahaha i wish they had wikipedia when i was in HS. back then all you could do was copy encarta and act smart

3/12/2008 6:18:12 PM

blah blah who gives a fuck

Quote :

"Try these lowlifes take them in the next room and end them."

[Edited on March 12, 2008 at 6:20 PM. Reason : were there computers when you were in high school?]

3/12/2008 6:19:58 PM

Parole doesnt exist in the federal system anymore fyi. I know that doesnt apply here but most ppl dont know that

3/12/2008 6:20:10 PM

yes but you can't point to an absolute that says a murder in the first degree is automatic class A felony. That is what the judge decides. I would assume that a class A felony would consist of murder/rape/torture type deal.

Don't get me wrong, I hope these guys are convicted to the maximum extent of the law, but this is something that probably will not happen. Have you checked the wrap sheet on these guys? They should have already been in prison (hopefully their past record will put this crime into class A status) but they were set free by a liberal judicial system in which the criminal has more rights than the victim.

3/12/2008 6:20:18 PM

Quote :

"I would assume that a class A felony would consist of murder/rape/torture type deal."

and, as usual, there's the problem

dude, i posted a link. you don't have to assume

the ONLY class A felony is first degree murder. the ONLY thing that gives an automatic minimum life sentence is first degree murder.

Quote :

"hopefully their past record will put this crime into class A status"

also, class A felonies are the ONLY class that don't consider prior record. did you even click the link?

3/12/2008 6:22:53 PM

Quote :

"hahaha i wish they had wikipedia when i was in HS. back then all you could do was copy encarta and act smart"

that reminds me, why don't kids start plagiarizing the shit out of wikipedia articles when they write papers? just go in the article and delete then immediately add back the parts they copied, so that if the teacher finds out they can say "here, see that change a few days ago? that's my ip address. (then offer proof) i felt so proud of the research i did for your paper on _____ that i couldn't help but add it to the wikipedia knowledge base!"

3/12/2008 6:24:23 PM

point me to the page in the PDF that first degree murder = class A felony and I'll shut up. You stated that if you commit a first degree murder you are never getting out of prison and that is incorrect.

It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, considering what happened. Basically what it comes down to is I wish that we as a country would institute the "eye for an eye, hand for a hand, life for a life" mentality, that would deter a lot of crime, I WOULD ASSUME.

3/12/2008 6:26:14 PM

as I've said before, point me to where first degree murder = life in prison. That is something that is subjective to a judge, and obviously the judicial system has failed due to previous crimes committed by these young men, yet they are allowed to freely walk the streets and do whatever they want. It's great that you want as much rights as possible for Americans, but for those who commit these types of crimes I think their rights need to be curbed a bit, and if that was the case then this tragedy would have never occurred.

3/12/2008 6:28:54 PM

you just double posted.... jackleg will not rest until you are suspended

3/12/2008 6:30:07 PM

rules are rules.

3/12/2008 6:30:59 PM

here, i found an updated list for you

http://www.nccourts.org/Courts/CRS/Councils/spac/Documents/2003felonyoffenseclassificationlist.pdf

they actually added use of a nuclear/biological (terrorism post 9/11) weapon to injure another as a class A, and i didnt think about that. there are actually 2 class A felonies now, but the second is so rare that murder 1 might as well be the only one. but i will stand corrected. murder1 isnt the ONLY one, its one of 2. the other being using a bomb to hurt people. which is about the same haha

Quote :

"as I've said before, point me to where first degree murder = life in prison. That is something that is subjective to a judge"

read the chart in the first link. that pdf is what TRAINS JUDGES on what they HAVE TO IMPOSE. class A = life in prison. class A = murder 1. do the math

the point i've been trying to make is that class A is the only one where a judge has NO say in the amount of time. even with rape (B1), they can choose within a range based on priors.

and actually, i was right with my first date. it is post 1992

3/12/2008 6:31:10 PM

jackleg would own this thread if he were on dope.

3/12/2008 6:36:41 PM

good find jackleg, and I hope you are right, and I did learn something. The definition I found of 1st degree murder from none other than wikipedia:

First degree murder is a murder which is (1) planned and deliberate, (2) contracted, (3) committed against an identified peace officer, (4) while committing or attempting to commit one of the following offences (hijacking an aircraft, sexual assault, sexual assault with a weapon, aggravated sexual assault, kidnapping and forcible confinement or hostage taking), (5) while committing criminal harassment, (6) committed during terrorist activity, (7) while using explosives in association with a criminal organization, or (8) while committing intimidation.

So hopefully it will be proven that this crime falls under one of these 8 caveats, but I doubt it.

If not then it will not be a 1st degree murder, therefore Class A felony does not apply, therefore they will be eligible for parole at some point during their sentence.

[Edited on March 12, 2008 at 6:41 PM. Reason : .]

3/12/2008 6:38:20 PM

haha

structured sentencing and the felony punishment grid have been explained to me in depth by numerous attorneys... because, unfortunately, i've faced some E's F's and H's in the past few years.

Quote :

"good find jackleg, and I hope you are right, and I did learn something. The definition I found of 1st degree murder from none other than wikipedia:"

hahaha ok no offense dude, but i suggest looking up the definition in the NC statutes.... because the jury isnt gonna be looking at wikipedia when they return a verdict

3/12/2008 6:40:16 PM

I thought there was a ruling in 2004ish that made mandatory guidelines unconstitutional. Maybe thats just federal and doesnt apply here but I know thats true

3/12/2008 6:41:10 PM

i'm not sure how it would apply here. i do know that they've made changes to allow parole for DUI and a couple other minor things, and i'm not sure why.

3/12/2008 6:42:40 PM

^^^ see my edit Jack, I'm not sure this crime falls under first degree murder after further reading.

[Edited on March 12, 2008 at 6:44 PM. Reason : ^^^]

3/12/2008 6:42:48 PM

dude, they were charged with FIRST DEGREE MURDER. so like i've been saying, IF THEY ARE CONVICTED OF THE CRIMES THEY WERE CHARGED WITH, they will not get out of prison ever.

whats so hard to understand about that? you've gotta be trolling me (very well, i might add)

3/12/2008 6:45:02 PM

touche, I wish I was trolling

will probably fall under the #1 caveat: planned or deliberate

Like I say I hope that you are right and these guys at the very least get their freedoms taken away from them. People like this do not deserve it. If convicted, ofcourse.

[Edited on March 12, 2008 at 6:48 PM. Reason : .]

3/12/2008 6:47:07 PM

also, NC has the felony murder rule. which means that you can be convicted of first degree even if you accidentally shoot someone, IF you did it during while committing another felony (such as robbery) using a gun. basically its implying that if you are deliberately robbing someone with a gun to their head, then you know damn well that you are putting their life in danger

so, if they did it, thats first degree easily.

^if nothing else, i wish you'd take your legal definitions from our statutes here instead of wikipedia. they vary from state to state and country to country

and i totally agree, i'd hate for anyone to get the wrong idea. if they get convicted, i think they deserve life in prison with no parole ever. i just think that they deserve the rights they are entitled to in the meantime. cause i know how it feels to be charged with serious crimes that im innocent of, and it really sucks to have your picture on tv and everyone thinking you did something cause of that

3/12/2008 6:47:43 PM

Quote :

"first degree easily"

oh you people, thinking the law is so cut and dry. its like a magic 8 ball. and it usually says "please try again later"

3/12/2008 6:50:43 PM

yeah, basically I was trying to say a life sentence is equal to 20 years in NC (at least a few years ago), but thanks for pointing out everything that you have.

I'll admit you've got a bit of knowledge.

3/12/2008 6:51:34 PM

Quote :

"5) while committing criminal harassment"

lardass, i think this fits and plus they already charged him with it....

3/12/2008 6:52:23 PM

Quote :

"oh you people, thinking the law is so cut and dry"

hahaha IT IS!!!!! wow

3/12/2008 6:53:15 PM

Jackleg has been pwning you NERDS left and right in the thread

3/12/2008 6:53:18 PM

the first one covers it too I believe, I've been drinking, getting ready for the ACC tourny tomorrow so excuse my ASSUMPTIONS.

also roddy, don't call me names

[Edited on March 12, 2008 at 6:54 PM. Reason : .]

3/12/2008 6:53:35 PM

Quote :

"Jackleg has been pwning you NERDS left and right in the thread"

haha, im not trying to PWN!!1, im trying to educate. it really disturbs me to see people calling for executions and all this shit without even knowing the rules of law that apply to the situation. thats scary to me

3/12/2008 6:55:04 PM

not cut and dry. but i agree with ^ statement.

3/12/2008 6:56:56 PM

If convicted I'm still 100% behind the death penalty although that more than likely will not be an option in this case.

As you pointed out, class A felony = life in prison or death.

I have my own reasons for supporting capital punishment but that's an entirely different conversation. And I do respect other people's opinion regarding the matter and won't belittle a differing opinion.

3/12/2008 6:59:13 PM

some statutes are vague and leave room for bad cops to twist words around in order to make arrests... but the murder stuff is as cut and dry as statues can get

^nah, death will definitely be an option. they're charged with murder 1, therefore the prosecutor can (and likely will) seek the death penalty. sometimes they even do this as a tactic. they seek the death penalty.... but then offer plea bargains to save money. "plead guilty and save the state a trial, and we will give you life... but if you take it to trial and lose, you die". thats usually either to save money, or because the DA is scared they dont have a solid case

but in cases like this, those in the public eye, they usually go for death and a trial.

3/12/2008 6:59:20 PM

uh huh

3/12/2008 7:00:10 PM

JESUS CHRIST

3/12/2008 7:04:48 PM

I'm pretty sure they have suspended the death penalty in North Carolina (I won't point to wikipedia this time, this is based on some articles I read on WRAL a while back). Again I'm assuming and falling back on what I remember (again I've been drinking).

But if that is the case I don't think they can have a re-trial to increase the punishment. There is something in the constitution prevents that I'm thinking. This is going back to 9th grade law and politics classes.

NOTICE how I'm carefully constructing my sentences

[Edited on March 12, 2008 at 7:07 PM. Reason : NOTICE]

3/12/2008 7:06:42 PM

just fyi, a moratorium doesn't prevent people from being executed. they can still get sentenced to death, just not executed during the moratorium period. besides it takes YEARS for death penalty cases to pan out so its not like a moratorium is really halting that much anyway.

3/12/2008 7:10:32 PM

Quote :

"a moratorium doesn't prevent people from being executed. they can still get sentenced to death, just not executed during the moratorium period"

hahaha.

so in other words, that's EXACTLY what it does.. prevents executions from being carried out. durrrr

3/12/2008 7:14:11 PM

well what i meant was sentenced to death HAHAHAHA or preventing them from being executed permanently HAHAHA

so HAHAHAHAH referring to the post above mine, its not like if a person is up for the death penalty during a moratorium, that they'll NEVER receive the death penalty. people don't get that. that is why moratorium bills get so much shit in state legs.

edit some people don't get that durrrr. actually i think its safe to say a fair amount of people don't understand how it works. they think moratoriums automatically relieve everyone on death row from execution. or prevent other people on trial from being sentenced to death. that isn't how it works. and with the entire appeals process it doesn't really matter that much anyway considering death penalty cases can take decades before execution actually occurs. so a 2 year hiatus doesn't really do that much to the people waiting around on death row. they'd most likely be waiting there anyway regardless of a moratorium

[Edited on March 12, 2008 at 7:21 PM. Reason : .]

3/12/2008 7:19:16 PM

he said they've suspended it. its not like he said they banned it. seems like he understands what he's talking about there.

is there a definite time period on it? last i heard they overturned all death sentences for people who were under 18 when it happened... and that all executions were on hold due to a technicality with doctors and ethics or something. i didnt realize it was a specific 2 year ban

3/12/2008 7:22:07 PM

so the other suspect is on the run. tell me that doesnt sound like he had stuff to do with this murder

3/12/2008 7:23:04 PM

never said he didn't. i was just commenting on moratoriums.

and this point...just saying they can still get sentenced to death whether a moratorium is in place or not.

Quote :

"But if that is the case I don't think they can have a re-trial to increase the punishment"

[Edited on March 12, 2008 at 7:24 PM. Reason : .]

3/12/2008 7:23:29 PM

3/12/2008 7:23:39 PM

if the cops were looking to charge me with killing her, i'd be running too. and i havent left greensboro in a few weeks.

you've gotta remember that once caught, he's gonna spend the next few years in jail without bond whether guilty or not while they prepare for trial and all that.

thats enough to make me run. even if i didnt do it

3/12/2008 7:24:08 PM

why run.
if you know you didnt do it.

its not like you'll get away

3/12/2008 7:24:56 PM

why run? cause i dont wanna spend 3 years in jail while proving my innocence. that's why i'd run if they said i did it.


sounds pretty reasonable to me.

3/12/2008 7:26:42 PM

I always heard that structured sentencing = no parole for anyone.

Your sentence is what you serve period.

3/12/2008 7:27:32 PM

i was questioning whether he could constitutionally be punished with death during a halt on the death penalty? Can they sentence someone to death when the death penalty has been "suspended"? I wouldn't think so, but I'm not certain. If not then they can't be re-tried to increase the punishment. Lucky break if you ask me.

3/12/2008 7:29:37 PM

well i mean you are already charged with credit card fraud, so you'll be in trouble for that. now youre running from the police for the credit card fraud. considered deadly.

i know you've had your run in with the law, but surely they arent gonna arrest you for 3 years.

[Edited on March 12, 2008 at 7:30 PM. Reason : i think they've already been charged for credit card fraud. or whatever you wanna call it]

3/12/2008 7:29:43 PM

you're right bacardi, except there are a few "minor" offenses that do allow for parole. they're listed somewhere in that first PDF. its all the rules (minus the appendices, the second link is one of those)

3/12/2008 7:29:59 PM

also isn't everyone entitled to a speedy trial or something of that nature? So they can't be held in jail for a long period of time before a verdict (sans James Johnson, that is kind of fucked up).

[Edited on March 12, 2008 at 7:33 PM. Reason : .]

3/12/2008 7:33:13 PM

Quote :

"i know you've had your run in with the law, but surely they arent gonna arrest you for 3 years."

i was arrested for hacking on 6/23/2004. i posted bond and got out. i was cleared of any wrongdoing on 5/31/2007.

thats 3 years later. if i didnt post bond, i would have sat in jail that whole time.

its unfortunate, but thats how it works. especially when they are trying to fuck with you, they'll stall as long as they can. its very very very possible for an innocent person to spend years in jail waiting for a trial, not to mention how long a trial can last.

ps - pretty sure financial card fraud carries something like 8-10 months in prison for average people. ive seen 2 people sentenced for it, and they both got 8 month prison sentences SUSPENDED for 3 years probation. so no jail.

3/12/2008 7:33:36 PM