Goddamn it, man. You made me spend a good 5 minutes reading up on Bootygang's history and I was really going to avoid that

4/4/2019 12:55:38 PM

Also, what has Buttigeig done to make it ok to go after all the butt nicknames? I would have thought that using those against a gay candidate these days would require exile or at least a hashtag flogging.

4/4/2019 12:59:18 PM

I didn't even know that he was gay. He just has a stupid name

4/4/2019 1:00:48 PM

Quote :

"As in, what is Bernie Sanders proposing that isn't free college?"

i said not free college for all, sanders' plan was only free 4-year university for people with household incomes under $125K

that's not my "version" of what he's calling for, that's what was in his bill

[Edited on April 4, 2019 at 1:13 PM. Reason : .]

4/4/2019 1:07:48 PM

Quote :

"Guys, I'm sorry, apparently I'm having a lot of trouble communicating this morning."

Naw that's not what's happening here.

4/4/2019 1:25:17 PM

Yet another random white guy running for the Dem nomination.

Who is Tim Ryan?

4/4/2019 4:54:39 PM

I believe that, at one point, he wanted to be Speaker of the House or, at the very least, wanted to remove Nancy Pelosi from her position as Speaker.

4/4/2019 5:31:37 PM

Ugh, just when I was starting to forget why everybody thinks Bernie fans are so annoying...

But, OK, so the plan is free 4-year college for people with household incomes under $125k. I'm not opposed in principle to free or subsidized college, but that approach seems like it would incentivize a whole range of bad behaviors while ignoring wide discrepancies in cost-of-living. In other words, like most Sanders proposals, it seems like superficial millennial bait that promises happy time without any thought to the side effects. Admittedly the current system is a crusty outdated mess whose terrible side effects are already known, but still, Bernie is old enough to have put in a little more effort here.

4/5/2019 7:44:51 AM

unlike the current system which perfectly accounts for cost of living

4/5/2019 9:45:15 AM

Which is why I said, "The current system is a crusty outdated mess whose terrible side effects are already known."

The dig at Bernie's age aside, I stand by the broader point: we're not faced with a choice between "status quo" and "Bernie's half-baked plan." We can do better than either.

4/5/2019 5:39:44 PM

Hey, guys, remember George W. Bush and the 911s?!?!?!??!? Well, I put "GOP" in my fucking username, and now that I'm bored for some reason (baby?), I expect you all to act like I'm totally normal and shit....and my opinion matters.



F

4/5/2019 6:46:50 PM

Like many adults, I regret some of the things I did as a teenager - for example, choosing the TWW nickname "GrumpyGOP." It is an albatross around my neck these 16 years later. God, since I made that particular fuckup, I could have fathered and raised a teenager to do stupid things of their own.

I'm not sure what it is I did to irritate you so much, but I regret the outcome. We used to get along OK.

4/5/2019 10:09:39 PM

The thing you should know is literally no one gives a fuck about your thoughts or feelings when it comes to democratic primaries, the party has no interest in your kind

Republicans were always what they are today, they were always reprehensible, Democrats were able to see it and see the deplorable path Republicans had chosen decades ago but you were simple enough to be fooled so why should the democratic party spend even the tiniest effort considering your opinions or trying to appeal to you?

[Edited on April 5, 2019 at 11:28 PM. Reason : .]

4/5/2019 11:25:09 PM

If someone plans to vote in the democratic primary and support the democratic presidential candidate no matter who they are, I want them. Grumpy is a democrat, for now anyway. We'll see if see still is the day after election day next year, but for now....

I can see knocking Duke bc he'd rather let it all burn, but people that are actually coming over is a different story.

4/5/2019 11:38:03 PM

Quote :

"literally no one gives a fuck about your thoughts or feelings when it comes to democratic primaries"

I give plenty of fucks about his thoughts and feelings, despite his past support of W's Iraq stupidity and his username. He mostly votes Democratic these days iirc so I mostly consider him GOOBLE GOBBLE ONE OF US.

[Edited on April 5, 2019 at 11:42 PM. Reason : This ain't a zero sum game ]

[Edited on April 5, 2019 at 11:42 PM. Reason : ^ yup]

4/5/2019 11:42:09 PM

Quote :

"Republicans were always what they are today, they were always reprehensible"

Yeah that Abe Lincoln was a real son of a bitch.

You're a fine mirror image of aaronburro lately: a lot of "always," "literally no one," and other absolutist terms that make your statements even less credible than usual.

But moving on. Yes, many conservatives have long been reprehensible. But not all; many were reasonable, decent human beings, who have fled en mass in recent years as the worst began to really flex their muscles. They're not in lock-step with you on every single issue, so you still hate them, because you're exactly the kind of ideological purist who ruins every country and organization over which your kind can gain control; but they are not, to the vast majority of Democrats, "reprehensible."

Quote :

"you were simple enough to be fooled"

Let's say this is true. I was also like 18 years old. Do you only trust people who were left-wing Democrats from birth, or do they just have to make the switch by middle school?

Follow up question: at some point would you actually like to talk about the candidates or primaries, or would you like this thread to continue being solely about how little you care about what I think? Because ironically by this point you've filled a couple of pages on the subject.

Quote :

"Grumpy is a democrat, for now anyway. We'll see if see still is the day after election day next year, but for now..."

What? Come on, man, give me a little credit. I'm not your Johnny-come-lately Never Trumper who just hopped over to topple the usurper just so he could hop right back later. I left the Republican party rolls officially back in 2012, almost exactly seven years ago to the day. Amendment 1 was the acute cause, but there were a long list of other issues. I'd never been able to muster any enthusiasm for the pro-life movement, and was dead-set against Republican immigration policies (Democratic immigration policies, too, I hasten to add; both are far too restrictive and cruel). And many other things.

No, this isn't recent or fleeting. I'm done.

[Edited on April 6, 2019 at 9:03 AM. Reason : ]

4/6/2019 9:01:17 AM

Quote :

""Let's all push in the same direction. That's what China does. Every aspect of their government is moving in one direction," Ryan said. "They've got a long-term plan. We are not moving in the same direction, and we live in a 24-hour news cycle.""

I'm no expert but I'm not sure if we should be emulating chinas government.

4/6/2019 10:33:08 AM

Quote :

" Yeah that Abe Lincoln was a real son of a bitch."

you perfectly made my point for me when you had to reach back to lincoln

4/6/2019 10:44:16 AM

Quote :

"What? Come on, man, give me a little credit. "

Jesus man I was defending you. I don't know you so I can only speak to what I've seen you say in this thread. You just made a whole post about how people change, the ending of my post was just an acknowledgement of that fact.

4/6/2019 12:47:31 PM

^My bad, that was intended to come across as more tongue-in-cheek but it didn't work.

^^

I suppose our best recent example of a non-despicable Republican is John McCain. Certainly he's the last prominent one I can think of. But since he was to the right of Chairman Mao I'm sure you think he was the devil incarnate. For me, anyway, he was the last Republican I could muster any respect for at all.

^^^What was the context of that quote?

[Edited on April 6, 2019 at 2:42 PM. Reason : ]

4/6/2019 2:41:29 PM

John McCain was reprehensible

4/6/2019 4:31:03 PM

Feel like some people here called him a white supremacist after his death.

[Edited on April 6, 2019 at 5:28 PM. Reason : ]

4/6/2019 5:27:59 PM

John McCain did pick Sarah Palin. Even without looking at the rest of his career, that's a big market against him

4/6/2019 5:43:05 PM

people just don't like his Beach Boys remix

4/6/2019 6:23:26 PM

^^You'd think Trump would have liked him for something like that.

4/6/2019 7:15:37 PM

The man got on the map by bombing Vietnamese farmers, voted against recognizing MLK day as a federal holiday, said he "hated the gooks" as recently as 2000, was a member of the Keating 5 during the Savings and Loan Scandal, sang songs about bombing Iranian's, and introduced the world to Sarah Palin and this ultra strand of nationalistic Republicanism that is currently in charge of the GOP, and he wanted to "complete the dang fence" with regards to building a border wall.

He may not have had a hood and burned crosses, but the motherfucker stood for every political position that re-enforced white-American supremacy, both domestically and abroad.

[Edited on April 6, 2019 at 9:04 PM. Reason : ]

4/6/2019 9:03:22 PM

Quote :

"The man got on the map by bombing Vietnamese farmers"

Pretty sure it was the 5+ years as a POW that got him on the map.

But given your assessment of his service, I assume you would protested him and other service members on their return home from Vietnam?

Quote :

"introduced the world to Sarah Palin and this ultra strand of nationalistic Republicanism that is currently in charge of the GOP"

Ahh so he's singularly responsible for Trump/the current state of the GOP?

[Edited on April 7, 2019 at 1:37 AM. Reason : Might as well blame him for nationalism movements in Europe while you're at it ]

4/7/2019 1:34:39 AM

He's not anywhere close to "singularly responsible" but he certainly helped propel the country down a path

4/7/2019 7:48:56 AM

This seems like a useful exercise, debating the merits of a dead guy.

A dead guy who wasn't perfect, but who was, by the standard of modern politics, pretty good.

We can go through and highlight all the worst things about him. We could play the same game with any politician you like, too; it wouldn't be hard, since everyone involved in politics, and particularly those with a rigid ideological dogma, has believed or done something shitty at some point. Even Lincoln was a white supremacist who played fast and loose with the Constitution.

So is that how you'd like to proceed? Trying to name the last person from either party who qualifies for sainthood? Seems useless even by the standards of wolfweb debates, but hey, I'm down. Who do you want to respond with?

[Edited on April 7, 2019 at 10:19 AM. Reason : Or would that get in the way of your purity tests?]

4/7/2019 10:16:49 AM

Wait you brought up John McCain

4/7/2019 10:57:12 AM

And don't I regret it? This outcome was predictable, but I took the "You can't name any good Republicans since Lincoln" bait.

I think John McCain is an example of a Republican who, for his various faults and mistakes, was not such a monster that former association with him should exclude one from all civic discourse or membership in the Democratic party. In 99% of contexts, that wouldn't be a controversial statement. In dealing with fanatics like dtownral and JesusHChrist, though, I really should have known better.

4/7/2019 11:22:11 AM

Quote :

"I can't help it, every time I see Pete Buttigieg I think, "This bright young man will make some mistakes along the way, but I believe he'll do an excellent job as the new principal of our middle school.""

4/7/2019 1:45:23 PM

4/7/2019 2:12:14 PM

Heard him for the first time on NPR. Def got a good impression

4/7/2019 3:14:53 PM

Is Eisenhower not considered a good President anymore or something?

4/7/2019 4:50:30 PM

All I did was bring up his congressional record. I'm sorry you're such a child that you believe dead assholes should be immune to criticism for their obvious faults. His record speaks for itself and highlights the worldview he fought to uphold.

I didn't even mention his most atrocious contribution to the political sphere, which was giving life to his insufferable daughter, Meghan.

4/7/2019 8:11:42 PM

Quote :

"All I did was bring up his congressional record"

lol that's not even close to true

4/7/2019 10:14:11 PM

keating five, reagan cheerleader, supported contras in central america, one of the loudest supporters of the iraq war, voted to sustain veto of the 1990 civil rights act, courted the religious right, embraced dog whistling in his campaign against obama, helped kill the medicaid expansion, pledged to block any clinton/obama supreme court pick, tried to undermine the iran nuclear deal, strong supporter of trump's agenda in congress, etc...

but he was funny on the daily show and he made that one surprise vote that saved the thing he had helped put in jeopardy

someone who thinks that mccain is an example of a good and notable politician is not someone the democratic party should give a shit about, capitulating to this kind of failed mentality will only lead to failure and a continued movement to the right, and the fact that they can only reply with a pedantic, "see but not all..." reply is them acknowledging they know this



[Edited on April 8, 2019 at 9:14 AM. Reason : .]

4/8/2019 9:03:20 AM

I would guess that a Hilary tally would find a lesser but similar tally of negatives. Almost any career politician is going to have skeletons.

Bernie has far fewer than most I think but not non existent

4/8/2019 10:54:48 AM

yeah, she was a bad candidate

and mccain has a very bad record and "there are other bad politicians so presumably the democratic party should be interested in people who like the worst of them?" isn't a great argument


[Edited on April 8, 2019 at 11:22 AM. Reason : .]

4/8/2019 11:19:14 AM

I don't even know what you're arguing "democratic party should be interested in...." what does that even mean? The vast majority of the democratic party liked Hilary, should they be disinterested in themselves? I also think Democrats have/had generally high opinion of McCain.

Also, finally, Grumpy IS a democrat, like it or not. He can and probably will influence the selection of the Dem candidate, like it or not. Advocate for the candidate you support all you like but I'm not sure what good it does you to shit on grumpy.

This goes for all centrist Dems (which is what he is, I think, not just a never Trump Rep like Duke) really.

4/8/2019 12:32:20 PM

then why are you posting?

4/8/2019 12:55:29 PM

Buttigieg might have potential.

4/8/2019 1:08:52 PM

yeah fuck Buttigieg

4/8/2019 4:08:43 PM

^^^you lost me. I'm not shitting on grumpy, if that's what you mean.




On another note:
Bernie is hurting himself with the tax return and filibuster issue. Both make him seem stubborn and the latter makes him seen naive.

[Edited on April 8, 2019 at 4:49 PM. Reason : E]

4/8/2019 4:47:21 PM

Quote :

"someone who thinks that mccain is an example of a good and notable politician is not someone the democratic party should give a shit about"

In which dtownral admits he doesn't even think the Democratic party should give a shit about most Democrats

They don't embrace his radical vision, so fuck 'em.

Notice he hasn't put forward his own candidate for political sainthood for us to savage. I don't know if that's fear we'd do exactly that, or he's just worked himself into a state where all he can do is keep repeating things that have already been said.

4/8/2019 9:01:26 PM

If MOST Democrats are simply old school Republicans, then the party is not worth saving.

It's not asking too much of the party to represent the ideological vision of its base. If the party makes the determination that it's core constituency is mostly made up of former Republicans, then the party is damaged beyond repair.

4/8/2019 10:58:21 PM

Quote :

"If MOST Democrats are simply old school Republicans..."

Don't think anyone has asserted that.

4/8/2019 11:06:33 PM

The Republican I was responding to did, and he has consistently claimed in this thread and others that he believes that HE is the political center of the current Democratic Party (which may be true, much to my chagrin).

But it should come as no surprise that long time left-leaning Democrats see this influx of moderates coming in to colonize their political space and are rightfully hostile to the idea.

I mean, it is really quite amazing that so many people who are new to the Democratic Party feel the obligation to dictate the terms on how the party should operate. Former fucking neo-cons are all up in this bitch and straight jackin' the party apparatus. And they're demanding life-long Democrats who have opposed our countries right-ward drift to fall in line. It's incredible. They've been squeezed out of their political homes and are now demanding quarter in left spaces. Fuck me.

4/8/2019 11:18:10 PM

Grump didn't say most democrats would VOTE for McCain just that he was, basically, fine. Most democrats liked Hilary and she was morally compromised to the say the least. Most democrats liked Obama and he is to the right of everyone currently running other than maybe Booker.

Democratic party had a chance 3 years ago to show they were the party of Sanders and didn't. Maybe that wing will show out next year but who knows.

And believe me i hope they do. I want Sanders or Warren but ill vote for any Democrat in the race without holding my nose.

4/8/2019 11:44:15 PM