you guys don't know how good of a coach Lowe will look like with Harrow and Brown running his offense...

2/3/2010 9:34:14 PM

Yeah and Wall and Favors too! Those two better be Kobe and Lebron for this coach to succeed.

Quote :

"His recruiting class next year is the ONLY reason to even consider retaining him another year, and Im not even sure thats a good enough reason. I really wanted to see Sid succeed, but its become painfully obvious thats not going to happen."

Finally someone gets it.

2/3/2010 9:47:36 PM

Thing is if you can Lowe now then the job is still unattractive because we don't have any guards worth a damn and the cycle is repeated and we have to put up with another x amount of years of zero dribble penetration and long scoring droughts until the new coach recruits some guards.
Give Lowe next year and worst case scenario we get a new coach with some really good talent to work with.

2/3/2010 9:56:30 PM

Quote :

"Fuck next year. Fuck guards. Fuck talent. Fuck his recruits. He better turn things around or their may not be a next year."

////Hell yeah mf'er!!!!! That's what I'm talking bout. You make the fans and the team proud! Tell it like it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/11

2/3/2010 10:31:42 PM

Quote :

" you guys don't know how good of a coach Lowe will look like with Harrow and Brown running his offense..."

i respect your opinion and knowledge, so I'd appreciate it if you'd describe Sid's offense to us

2/3/2010 10:36:12 PM

Quote :

"Yeah and Wall and Favors too! Those two better be Kobe and Lebron for this coach to succeed."

You're a fucking idiot.

Because Brown and Harrow, two guards who have signed their LOI to play for Coach Lowe are the same as Wall and Favors.

And because Coach Lowe can't succeed without future NBA HoFers, yet he beat Duke this year with a bunch of inconsistent at best ACC 6th men at the guard positions.

2/3/2010 10:38:02 PM

tonight, USF beat Georgetown, who beat Duke

earlier this year, Central Michigan beat USF

this, Central Michigan is better than Duke and is on par with NC State

2/3/2010 10:41:30 PM

^^I am well aware they have signed their LOIs smartass. NCSU shit can still happen. Lo Brown might not qualify and Harrow might change his mind and demand a release.

I'm just ready for you and Bullet and whoever else to give me a good reason other than the recruits coming in to keep Lowe.

You are all brainwashed this is not an attractive job but it actually is as long as LF isn't hiring.

Quote :

"////Hell yeah mf'er!!!!! That's what I'm talking bout. You make the fans and the team proud! Tell it like it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/11"

Nice comeback. Keep supporting a losing cause and provide no reasons for us to keep this joke going.

The few fans that actually are supporting the team by going to games are becoming fewer and fewer and people are really talking in the stands about Lowe being gone. Don't for a second think I am the only one. Look at our crowds. I honestly think you guys are in the minority wanting Lowe around.

[Edited on February 3, 2010 at 10:49 PM. Reason : for Bullet]

2/3/2010 10:47:25 PM

lol wut

Because Lowe's offense would be a thing of beauty with Harrow and Brown. Yeah, the reason is partly recruits, but yeah, when you don't have quality guards right now...

2/3/2010 10:47:42 PM

From a coach's perspective, working under Fowler would be great

It's not there's any pressure to win, it's not like you're going to get fired in your first decade on the job

2/3/2010 10:51:18 PM

Quote :

"people are really talking in the stands about Lowe being gone"

PEOPLE IN THE STANDS ARE TALKING

OH GOD

IT'S NOT JUST THE CHAT ROOMS ANYMORE

THE BALL IS ROLLING

2/3/2010 10:52:07 PM

Lowe's "offense" may be functional with Harrow and Brown. It would be a thing of beauty with a coach who could manage to not finish in the bottom quadrant of the ACC four years running

2/3/2010 10:52:23 PM

Quote :

"i respect your opinion and knowledge, so I'd appreciate it if you'd describe Sid's offense to us "

I think I can handle this for you.

Man offense: Point guard passes into paint, while other 4 players remain stationary. If post can't get shot off, he kicks it back out and the cycle is repeated. That's how you get 15pts per half.

Zone offense: Pass around perimeter until shot clock is under 10 seconds. Followed by either a desperate 3 or a turnover.

[Edited on February 3, 2010 at 10:59 PM. Reason : fa]

2/3/2010 10:58:31 PM

again, you need guards to win.

To beat a zone you either need to be able to force the zone to move and attempt to catch it off guard and shoot over it, or be able to penetrate. Who do we have that's good at penetration?

2/3/2010 10:58:47 PM

come on, BigEgo, please answer my question

or at least give me a few bulleted points

2/3/2010 11:00:57 PM

^^
no one will dispute that

[Edited on February 3, 2010 at 11:01 PM. Reason : fa]

2/3/2010 11:01:08 PM

Quote :

" Who do we have that's good at penetration?"

Who's fault is it that we don't have that?

2/3/2010 11:02:48 PM

^Yeah, Lowe's got his players in now. No more blaming the talent.

2/3/2010 11:03:27 PM

Attempt to run when you can, but if the defense is set up and you can't take it to the hoop, pull out and attempt any of various sets since we don't have a guard who can create on his own. A lot of pick and rolls and screens in attempt to get an open man or a mismatch. Generally, when we run those sets we end up getting that mismatch or that open man, however, lately we haven't been knocking down those shots. There are a lot fewer sets needed when you have a guard like Harrow would can create on the fly, or when Wood is more experienced and better at moving without the ball so we don't have to screen for him all the time to get him a decent shot.

Quote :

"Yeah, Lowe's got his players in now. No more blaming the talent."

Sort of. I think that Lowe will have the basics of his ideal team next year. This year he's missing that guard. With Brown on the team we probably would have the kind of guard he wants, but Javi and Mays haven't been consistent at this level.

2/3/2010 11:06:19 PM

Quote :

"Who do we have that's good at penetration?"

That depends on your definition of good. Regardless, Sidney Lowe played a point guard that offers negative penetration for 18 minutes today so I can't say for certain how much he values it. If anything, he seems to favor players who don't turn the ball over (because they never attempt to do anything difficult) and cannot rebound

2/3/2010 11:08:26 PM

Quote :

"No more blaming the talent."

Finally I am not the only one in here now.

2/3/2010 11:08:30 PM

safely assuming that LC and CJL aren't coming here, what's the starting 5 for next year?

Harrow, Brown, Wood, Howell and Smith....right?

[Edited on February 3, 2010 at 11:09 PM. Reason : 4]

2/3/2010 11:08:47 PM

Assuming no Leslie or Cothron I'd say:

Harrow
Brown
Wood
Howell
Smith

with 2 of Javi/Mays/Williams seeing 10+ minutes at one of the guard positions, Josh Davis/CJ splitting <10 minutes a game at the 3 (CJ if he gets aggressive for once), Painter backing up Howell at the 4 and Vandenberg backing up Smith

2/3/2010 11:11:59 PM

i'm just gonna put this out there --- I hate Scott Wood


having that said, are Davis or CJW a viable replacement if/when one of Wood's chicken twig legs snap?

2/3/2010 11:14:48 PM

I'm not giving up on him. Wood would benefit greatly from better pt guard play. Teams can just stay in his face the entire game without worrying about playing help defense. I'm also impressed with his defense. Another way to look at is that he's the least of our problems.

[Edited on February 3, 2010 at 11:20 PM. Reason : f]

2/3/2010 11:20:16 PM

Quote :

"The few fans that actually are supporting the team by going to games are becoming fewer and fewer and people are really talking in the stands about Lowe being gone."

oh shit. like whoah. i had no idea. i'm sorry boozie.

[Edited on February 3, 2010 at 11:33 PM. Reason : ncstatetke, you are truly the ultimatewhipping boy. being a victim sucks.]

2/3/2010 11:30:16 PM

Quote :

"having that said, are Davis or CJW a viable replacement if/when one of Wood's chicken twig legs snap?"

Next year if Wood goes down I think we start 3 guards. Harrow, Brown, and either Mays or Javi. We have Brown play the 3 on defense, and hope to out quick the opponent. Wood better not go down though.

2/3/2010 11:51:43 PM

Quote :

"His recruiting class next year is the ONLY reason to even consider retaining him another year, and Im not even sure thats a good enough reason. I really wanted to see Sid succeed, but its become painfully obvious thats not going to happen."

but true.

2/4/2010 12:11:23 AM

Quote :

"oh shit. like whoah. i had no idea. i'm sorry boozie."

Can't tell if you're being serious or not here?

2/4/2010 12:19:06 AM

Quote :

"i respect your opinion and knowledge, so I'd appreciate it if you'd describe Sid's offense to us"

I can't explain Sidney's offense to you, but I CAN explain Julius May "THE JEW" 's offense for you.

1) Catch inbounds pass.
2) Get confused look on face (to lure the defense in)
3) Dribble
3.1) Pick up dribble immediately
4) Wrinkle eyebrows even more (now he's got them right where he wants them)
5) Make hand motion to team mates as if to say "Come here" or "MAY DAY" <--...get it?
6) TURNOVER or TIMEOUT or...pass to team mate.
7) If the ball gets out of JewJew's hands (praise the lord) he immediately shows both hands PALMS OUT! letting his team know that he is ready to receive the ball again.
8) Catch Pass, and repeat steps 2-8

2/4/2010 12:44:48 AM

repost, since many of you don't read the rally thread.

I guess it would be easy to be negative after tonight. I mean hell it's another loss, right?

I truly don't understand where all this negativity is coming from now that things are finally looking up for the program.

Tracy/Howell looked terrific tonight. It's a shame they only get 1.5 seasons together. Howell is learning to get in position on offense and Smith is doing an excellent job working down low without a ton of space. His passing was on point tonight. He's become a presence down low whether you doubleteam him or not. He's still not a great defender by any means but he's no longer a huge liability like he used to be. His recent blocks are proof that his strength and athleticism have improved tremendously this year. If you take away two highly questionable turnovers assessed to Howell (offensive foul because his man fell down and travelling on a wrap move?!) he had a really nice offensive performance. He still gets lost a little on defense but it's tough to argue with 14 pts, 8 reb, 2 blk from a freshman on the road. UVA's defense had no answer for Howell he must have drawn 6-7 fouls tonight alone.

Javi- We dodged a bullet on what potentially looked like a horrible ankle sprain. Hopefully it doesn't swell too badly, it was encouraging that he was able to play in the 2nd half. I don't know if going with him was a great decision since he looked off when he came back in initially, but eh... All of his threes were in & out, so 1-5 is pretty misleading he could have easily been on fire like the UNC game with a few lucky rolls... I was impressed with how hard he went up to block that dunk even though it didn't work out for him. You have to love the way he's played this year.

Degand- He looks great when he penetrates it's a mistake that we dont utilize this more to break down the defense. He also had two incredible blocks on Landesburg who he gives up several inches to.

Wood- Poor kid seems like he hasn't hit a field goal since FSU. He still helps us by making great entry passes to Tracy every game but when our #2 scoring threat can't score it obviously makes us a much less potent offense. I'm not sure what you guys want Lowe to do, bench him? I don't see how that makes us better, sorry. He did a terrific job on Landesburg tonight, which would have been laughable if anyone had suggested he could guard him prior to the game.

Horner- I don't want to beat a dead horse but this guy needs to change his ipod or something. He's a notorious slow starter and finisher but we just can't afford for him to give up so many easy baskets in the early going. We had four guys come out looking good tonight and then Horner limping around looking 6 steps slow and lost on defense. I just don't get it. I've never seen a guy let his man beat him by 3 steps before on defense on the 3rd play of the game. The guy just doesn't have it, zero rebounds tonight? *cringe*. This is plain old addition by subtraction next year.

Josh Davis.... he just doesn't fit with what we do offensively this year. Lowe stuck him in early in the 2nd half when we were going through a drought and that was clearly a mistake. I can understand the frustration there if Lowe detractors are complaining about that decision.

Mays... ugh, he might never develop into an ACC caliber player but at least he didn't look like a deer in headlights out there tonight. I keep hoping he'll gain some confidence because shooting is really his only positive attribute.

CJ Williams... 8 painful minutes. Those have to stop. Enough is enough, he got destroyed on defense and he didn't pick up a single stat except for a foul. He looks stoned. Maybe that is the problem. He has regressed beyond belief after a strong freshman year. I can't believe how bad he was defensively. If you only play 8 minutes and I still can't get the taste out of my mouth hours later then you were really bad.

Overall, I can understand the frustration with losing... but this is a team that just destroyed UNC on the road and we came in and outplayed them in the first half. Landesburg is about as legit of a player as you will see at the college level and while he still had a good game we really disrupted his flow and kept him from destroying us like he did @UNC. 2-10 FG is outstanding preparation and implementation from Lowe. Make sure to at least acknowledge that when you are bashing him, it will make your argument look less biased.

Despite losing 90% of our scoring and rebounding from last year we are still a competitive team in a tough top to bottom ACC this year. Replace Horner's minutes with an improved Howell. Let Wood gain the confidence to to make a shot or two. Replace Mays, CJ's, and Davis minutes with impact players like Harrow and Brown. That's the recipe for success and it's all taking place next year. It's not going to be next week.

If this was a playstation game we'd just simulate the season and start next year already. Have a beer, look for the positives, and hope for an NIT run. Maybe we'll meet UNC in the finals.

2/4/2010 12:55:40 AM

so in other words..


wait till next year.







fuck.

2/4/2010 1:17:42 AM

^^yo holmes to bel air

2/4/2010 1:43:26 AM

Let's be serious. If Scott Wood cannot play for whatever reason next season CJ Williams will be playing 30 minutes a night for at least half the year. It took Sidney until the last 7 games of the season last year to finally play Smith, Costner and McCauley together. He is absurdly rigid in position roles.

I also highly doubt Harrow and Brown will both start. He'll pick one guy to put his complete faith in and have him play 40mpg Duke style while randomly subbing the other guy with Javi throughout the season (wildcard: Lowe seems sick of Javi too, so the substitutions may be completely out of control).

Quote :

"He did a terrific job on Landesburg tonight, which would have been laughable if anyone had suggested he could guard him prior to the game."

I actually suggested that we put him on Vasquez, who while not an identical player, is somewhat similar. Instead we had him on Mosley, who destroyed him.

2/4/2010 1:49:32 AM

Well considering Degand shut down Vazquez I think I'm okay with Lowe's decision there.

2/4/2010 2:14:00 AM

our weakest links that usually see the floor are cj, horner, and davis. davis hustles and doesn't make the mistakes you see cj make, but he has no shot and will often miss layups as well. cj is so bad though that once he goes in the game you're almost guaranteed to see him make a bad play within a minute. He'll either completely blow a defensive assignment, turn it over, etc. It's very painful to watch. Horner can be one of our best scorers on a lot of nights, which is good. The problem is he has no post presence and can't rebound for shit.

I think we should:

-Start Howell over Horner and also work Painter in more to suck up more of Horner's minutes. This is to get Painter ready to go for next season more than anything. Howell is our clear starter at PF for next season, and Painter will probably be the main guy backing him up. Cothron is an unknown but he'll probably be in the mix as well.

-Just stop playing CJ at significant points in the game. Only bring him in if guys really need a rest or get in foul trouble. I would actually prefer moving Wood to the 2 and inserting Horner at the 3 over using CJ at the 2 at this point.


With Sid's lack of confidence in Javi apparent, and with the departure of Degand, I think we'll have Harrow and Brown starting pretty early on. A line up of Harrow, Brown, Wood, Howell, Smith is pretty exciting to think about for next year.

2/4/2010 2:28:43 AM

Quote :

"Well considering Degand shut down Vazquez I think I'm okay with Lowe's decision there."

Uh, Degand shut him down for 1 half. I know it's standard operating procedure for NC State basketball to only play one half this season so I can see where you may have gotten confused but there are indeed two halves to every basketball game

edit: degand is one of our better defenders on a team full of weak ones. wood is pesky and can be a plus depending on match ups. i think if farnold was on mosley he might not have had 13 free throw attempts

[Edited on February 4, 2010 at 2:39 AM. Reason : ]

2/4/2010 2:34:20 AM

Quote :

"I also highly doubt Harrow and Brown will both start."

If they don't start then I've lost all hope of Sidney ever being having any decent team.

So Javi still starts over one of them next year? The way he's going right now is about as bad as his freshman year.

2/4/2010 3:10:36 AM

Quote :

"safely assuming that LC and CJL aren't coming here, what's the starting 5 for next year? Harrow, Brown, Wood, Howell and Smith....right?"

Silly. Javi has to start. Harrow does NOT have a mature enough body to be able to take a 35 game and 16 ACC game beating. Why press a kid in to service when you have a legitimate ACC-caliber option behind him.

^ you gotta think longterm though. Javi is a serviceable ACC point guard. Just not in large doses. You start him, while allowing Harrow to get acclimated to the speed and physicality of the next level.

[Edited on February 4, 2010 at 7:57 AM. Reason : x]

2/4/2010 7:56:27 AM

Witty response but degand wasn't on vazquez for most of his points. His two threes were in transition and cjw I believe was on him for two of his drives. Degand held vazquez to two points in the first half and 2? Assists. That's pretty impressive for a potential ACC POY

2/4/2010 8:02:00 AM

Quote :

"Why press a kid in to service when you have a legitimate ACC-caliber option behind him."

wait, when did we start talking about Hickson/Mccauley?

2/4/2010 9:00:43 AM

I had no problems with how Lowe handled Hickson. He was a physically ready player... It wasn't his fault McCauley sulked. Harrow is a different animal. He is a multiyear player with questions about his size.

2/4/2010 9:02:56 AM

Quote :

"things are finally looking up for the program"

i stopped reading at that line.

2/4/2010 9:03:47 AM

^^i know harrow is small, but i think he's going to fuck some people up next year. he seems aggressive, confident, quick, has a nasty handle and he's just a good point guard...plus he plays with swag(i like players with swag).

think about harrow and javi going at it during the first couple weeks of practice next year...i hope wolfpackhoops can get in there because it's about 1000 youtube videos in waiting. i would love to see that. you never know though until they get here, but harrow has just been fucking up really good competition. the guys at one Hoopsmixtape claim he's a top 2 point in this class.

http://packinsider.com/2010/01/video-harrow-highlights-vs-wheeler/

[Edited on February 4, 2010 at 10:29 AM. Reason : x]

2/4/2010 10:28:01 AM

Quote :

" ^ you gotta think longterm though. Javi is a serviceable ACC point guard. Just not in large doses. You start him, while allowing Harrow to get acclimated to the speed and physicality of the next level."

haha, see? This is what theyll be saying all next season. "You gotta give Sid another year, all his talent is young" Harrow will probably be a little turnover prone his first year because he's fancy so he'll only get like 20 minutes a game until the last 5 games of the year where he plays full time and dominates people

What should happen is that maybe you start Javi for the first few games. If he plays well you can continue "starting" him, but he should never play more than 10-15 minutes at the point. Let him get time there and 10-15 at SG too and he should be fine

2/4/2010 11:48:37 AM

Yeah, Harrow's style actually seems to go against everything Lowe was as a PG and everything he seems to want in a PG.

Lowe was always a heady player who didn't take many chances, and therefore, didn't make hardly any mistakes (much like Mays). On the contrary, Harrow is a show-stopper with plenty of razzle-dazzle, but I can see turnovers being a problem early on.

It'll be interesting to see how much of a leash Lowe gives Harrow. He seems to get pretty ticked when Javi starts getting too flashy and makes mistakes. I hope for our team's sake, Harrow is given a lot of room-for-error.

2/4/2010 3:42:00 PM

He gets ticked off at Javi when get tries to get flashy because he isn't capable of doing such without making mistakes. Harrow can. You can be smart and flashy

2/4/2010 4:13:32 PM

Do you watch Walton play? He gets called for carries a lot and will often dribble himself into a corner when he starts to show off. His shot selection also challenges Richard Howell (largely because him taking an awful shot is about equal to Gmitri Rice or whatever other scrubs they have taking a wide open one). I'm not saying he won't tone that down a little playing against (and with) guys with better talent but it's probably going to be up and down his freshman year

Lowe has a right to be pissed about Javi. His turnover rate is unacceptable in the ACC. Unfortunately, we cannot afford to bench him when he gets stupid because his back up is not a point guard. I swear if I see Mays play 1 minute of PG next season I am going to throw my TV out the window

2/4/2010 4:27:41 PM

Quote :

"Despite losing 90% of our scoring and rebounding from last year we are still a competitive team in a tough top to bottom ACC this year."

Huh?

The ACC is as weak as it's ever been this year and we have been distinctly uncompetitive in several of our games. One good half does not a game make. Duke, GT, and Maryland are probably the class of the league this year and none of them are better than borderline top 15 nationally. The fact that we're going to once again finish in the bottom 3 of the league is pretty depressing. Sid's got until next season to put us in the tourney or he's gone. Anything else is unacceptable.

2/4/2010 5:26:53 PM

Just a little perspective here: we lost to the 2nd team in the ACC on their home floor. Did you guys seriously expect to win this game? Virginia has lost one conference game at home this year and probably plays the best defense of anyone in the conference.
Then you add Javi being bipolar and not starting and injuring his ankle and we had absolutely no chance...

2/4/2010 5:56:42 PM