^^ Nothing you said there refutes my point that this is the strongest the ACC has been in years from top to bottom

2/4/2010 6:08:53 PM

I wouldn't say strongest. Is there the most parity in recent memory? Yes. But saying its strong from top to bottom implies that the top is strong, which is not. We don't have a single team capable of making the Final Four and I doubt anyone makes the elite 8. Don't confuse the conference being mediocre from top to bottom with being STRONG from top to bottom.

2/4/2010 6:10:11 PM

The conference is strong top to bottom, I'm not confused. It is.

#2, #12, #17, #20, #24, #33, #39, #46, #58, #60, #76, #78

Those are the overall rankings. Enough of the bullshit being spewn around here, that is a strong conference anyway you slice it.

2/4/2010 6:18:42 PM

There is no freakin way we are ranked 78th. Got to be somewhere around 100th at least.

2/4/2010 6:31:35 PM

Quote :

"Just a little perspective here: we lost to the 2nd team in the ACC on their home floor. Did you guys seriously expect to win this game? Virginia has lost one conference game at home this year and probably plays the best defense of anyone in the conference."

I was waiting for this post. You can sub in a different phrase for EVERY team in the ACC at the "we lost to the 2nd team in the ACC" part

Duke: first place in the ACC, HOF coach
Maryland: good coach, great senior PG
Virginia Tech: good guard play
Boston College: Skinner has more experience than Lowe, the flex is a hard system to figure out
North Carolina: Better athletes, their talent is still way higher than ours (paraphrasing this topic after the UNC loss)
Georgia Tech: they have lawal & favors
Wake: Ish Smith is too fast for our guards
Clemson: too fast/athletes
FSU: too tall for us
Miami: more talented/athletes
failing any of the above: bawwww karl hess

At some point, you have to beat somebody. I'm not saying Lowe needs to win 12 games and sweep Duke and UNC here. We're 2-6.

^^ why are we #78? Is it asking so much to be 58 or 60?

[Edited on February 4, 2010 at 7:02 PM. Reason : \/ im more concerned what happens if we make it. then lose smith/javi & if harrow/brown leave yr2]

2/4/2010 6:48:40 PM

Look, we're probably going 5-11 this year in the ACC and that is that. Maybe we lose an extra game or win an extra game but based on our talent level vs the rest of the conference 5-11 is meeting expectations.

Everyone calm the fuck down. We weren't supposed to do anything this season and we've knocked off three top 25 teams Duke, Marq, and FSU.

If we hadn't lost on a miracle three vs Florida and Tracy wasnt suspended against Arizona we'd be far exceeding expectations this year.

Next year we stock our bench with talented freshmen and upgrade our starting lineup. If we aren't in the tournament next year then by all means bitch

2/4/2010 7:00:43 PM

^^Your post does nothing to refute THE FACT that we lost to a team that is tied for 1st in the ACC on their home floor...

[Edited on February 4, 2010 at 7:02 PM. Reason : adfsdf]

2/4/2010 7:01:40 PM

you realize half the reason virginia is in first place is because of us right?

They're 3-2 if you remove our games. Oh, and Duke would be 5-1

[Edited on February 4, 2010 at 7:12 PM. Reason : \/ no denial there. but itd be nice if we didnt have to pencil in a L every game vs uva like md ]

2/4/2010 7:04:36 PM

maybe Tony Bennett is a decent coach

2/4/2010 7:06:35 PM

people keep saying 'ifs' about the arizona game and florida game, but "IF" we hadn't shot lights out against duke and "IF" wood hadn't been unconscious against FSU we would be 0- the season in ACC play

2/4/2010 7:08:42 PM

rally is the voice of reason

2/4/2010 7:15:21 PM

You do realize we were picked to finish LAST in the league... This loss was not surprising.

2/4/2010 7:38:08 PM

Quote :

"Just a little perspective here: we lost to the 2nd team in the ACC on their home floor. Did you guys seriously expect to win this game?"

^Just a little perspective, actually most people picked us and UVA to be tied or together at the bottom.

But look at them and look at us. You guys all talk about expectations and they were predicted there with us.

Quote :

"Everyone calm the fuck down. We weren't supposed to do anything this season and we've knocked off three top 25 teams Duke, Marq, and FSU."

Haha at Marquette being a top 25 team. They are in the bottom 4 of the Big East.

[Edited on February 4, 2010 at 9:15 PM. Reason : lolers]

2/4/2010 9:13:23 PM

^ Quit douching up the thread. Marquette is 19th in pomeroy and 31st in sagarin. That was a big win for us.

2/4/2010 10:31:45 PM

Quit getting people's hopes up saying we are almost there. Nothing has improved this year.

[Edited on February 4, 2010 at 11:31 PM. Reason : ^You've been riding Sid hard now you're on his side?]

2/4/2010 11:14:07 PM

Yes, because two years ago he blew it hard and people were saying give him time. This year we look much improved when everyone thought we would suck donkey. Next year we will have a good team and everyone is blowing their top. Its baffling to me how everyone has the whole thing backwards.

2/5/2010 7:52:05 AM

Quote :

"I was waiting for this post. You can sub in a different phrase for EVERY team in the ACC at the "we lost to the 2nd team in the ACC" part Duke: first place in the ACC, HOF coach Maryland: good coach, great senior PG Virginia Tech: good guard play Boston College: Skinner has more experience than Lowe, the flex is a hard system to figure out North Carolina: Better athletes, their talent is still way higher than ours (paraphrasing this topic after the UNC loss) Georgia Tech: they have lawal & favors Wake: Ish Smith is too fast for our guards Clemson: too fast/athletes FSU: too tall for us Miami: more talented/athletes failing any of the above: bawwww karl hess At some point, you have to beat somebody."

I would have removed Duke and FSU if you wanted to make a point. We only play them once each this year and we won.

2/5/2010 10:12:24 AM

my point was that theres an excuse to lose to every team in the acc, yet somehow all of them except us and miami have a better record than 2-6

2/5/2010 10:21:28 AM

My point is based on our talent we are where we were expected to be so I don't see why everyone is jumping off the deep end. I don't really see this team underachieving based on their talent level considering we are trying to run a standard post oriented offense. At this point a loss to Virginia was expected by most rational fans. I think the reason people are upset is because this team has outperformed the original expectations and therefore caused certain fans to have unrealistic expectations for the season.

2/5/2010 10:30:24 AM

Just because every year you are predicted to suck doesn't make it ok to suck. How about overachieving once in a while. What ever happened to proving the critics wrong?

And the one year we weren't predicted to suck (Hickson) we really sucked.

[Edited on February 5, 2010 at 10:53 AM. Reason : ^]

Quote :

"I think the reason people are upset is because this team has outperformed the original expectations and therefore caused certain fans to have unrealistic expectations for the season. "

People are upset b/c there has been no improvement after 4 years.

[Edited on February 5, 2010 at 10:55 AM. Reason : ^]

2/5/2010 10:52:15 AM

WHAT CRITICS?

FANNIES

ICE

[Edited on February 5, 2010 at 10:55 AM. Reason : !]

2/5/2010 10:54:19 AM

I expected us to suck this yeat, so I'm not surprised. I am still disappointed though because I didn't think we'd suck this bad and look so awful in so many games. I can deal with losing, but I have a hard time accepting it when the team looks like it only plays 15-30 minutes of a 40 minute ball game. If you watched the Virginia game you could see us give up, same thing against UNC, and against Maryland.

At this point in the season we are 14-9 (2-6) with no light at the end of the tunnel. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a winning record, and frankly that is probably a stretch at this point.

2/5/2010 10:57:36 AM

you people

2/5/2010 11:01:54 AM

i think we will be 17-14 at the end of the year.

i think we beat BC at home, VT at home, and Wake at home.

2/5/2010 11:03:33 AM

I expected us to suck this yeat too

2/5/2010 11:07:49 AM

How do you expect us to suck this yeat yet not look bad? We were picked last for a reason and I will be really surprised if we finish last. If Virginia wasn't surprising everyone right now with their ability (Herb Sendek style of play which we have proven WILL NOT WORK WITH WHINY ASS STATE FANS btw) none of you would have shit to say.

2/5/2010 3:13:55 PM

Quote :

"SUCK THIS YEAT"

2/5/2010 3:32:30 PM

yeat

A colloquial word used in Newburyport, Massachusetts at least before the Second World War (1939-1945), allegedly shouted from one naval ship to another to identify a resident of Newburyport.

2/5/2010 4:27:44 PM

Quote :

"The conference is strong top to bottom, I'm not confused."

You know the conference is strong when you have a whole two teams in the Top 25

2/5/2010 4:52:05 PM

Keep the faith!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBhOU4r_Wxg

as the comment says, pause at 37 secs. His hand is almost level with the top of the square.

[Edited on February 5, 2010 at 5:00 PM. Reason : .]

2/5/2010 4:56:56 PM

^^ If that were the case I'd be concerned.

As it stands I posted above we have 4 teams in the top 25, 8 in the top 50, and 12 in the top 80.

Stop trolling

2/5/2010 5:10:08 PM

Oh sorry, I figured you were talking about the AP or Coaches polls, where the ACC has two teams in the top 25

But you're going off the Sagarin poll, which has the ACC and Big XII ahead of the Big East

According to your poll, the Big East is the 3rd best conference....in basketball this year...with teams like Villanova and Syracuse and Georgetown

If you think the Big East is only the 3rd best conference, you might as well just stop posting

2/5/2010 5:13:00 PM

damn I love that highlight reel

2/5/2010 5:15:52 PM

Quote :

"The conference is strong top to bottom, I'm not confused. It is. #2, #12, #17, #20, #24, #33, #39, #46, #58, #60, #76, #78"

lol you pick the one guy who makes the acc look "good" without even mentioning his name

we have 2 teams in the AP top 25. #10, and #21
2 teams in the coaches poll
3 in the top 25 of the RPI

any way you dice that it's a down year for the acc...especially considering our second team in the top 25 is #21.

when carolina isn't going to the tournament, and duke is barely in the top 10, and nobody is stepping up in their place, it's a down year.


8 in the top 80 of RPI..and we're #108.

RPI has the ACC at #3. They don't count?

2/5/2010 5:27:10 PM

its really a down year for college ball as a whole

2/5/2010 5:34:31 PM

no synapse, you are wrong, you should trust the Sagarin poll, which claims the Big East is the 3rd best conference in the country

2/5/2010 5:35:04 PM

RPI has well known flaws because it overweights your schedule based on outliers (beating the #200 team is significantly better than beating the #300 team) and underweights your results.

AP and Coaches Poll are a joke. They had Carolina ranked in the midst of a nine game losing streak. I wouldn't look to that metric to evaluate a team.

2/5/2010 7:08:08 PM

How can you not agree that the Big East is the best bball conference this year by simply using the eye test, and then due to that, immediately think the Sagarin is also flawed since it lists them as the 3rd best conference?

2/5/2010 7:10:32 PM

Nothing really to add except that Pomeroy says that Herb has the 27th best team in the country this year... maybe that isn't a top metric to use.

Quote :

"This year we look much improved when everyone thought we would suck donkey."

I don't want Lowe fired because I think it would be pointless at this point (recruiting class coming in and Jed as AD) but we're last place... again. How is that not sucking donkey?

[Edited on February 5, 2010 at 7:12 PM. Reason : x]

2/5/2010 7:11:13 PM

Quote :

"damn I love that highlight reel"

Aside from the awesome plays, they did a good job of picking the music and syncing the clips with the beat. Some of those shitty ncsu highlight videos on youtube can take a lesson from this

2/5/2010 7:12:20 PM

^^ Because we are competing and essentially overachieving based on our talent?

We are achieving at least the same (I would argue better) results we have the past three regular seasons with far inferior talent against a much improved conference.

This year we've laid a foundation and next year is when we get it done.

Look, there are only 200 minutes in a game. We basically get 40 minutes a game out of completely unproductive backup players Mays, CJ, and Josh Davis. That's 20% of the fucking game. Those minutes will be almost non existent next year as they are replaced by Harrow, Brown, and Cothron who will be productive players. That is a MAJOR improvement in and of itself. On top of that we will have an improved Vandenburg as our foul trouble relief big. Davis will be our "off the bench for random athleticism" option, not our "hey Wood has 2 fouls we need someone to play critical minutes in a big game" option. CJ Williams will be our "you only get minutes if you return to form" option and not our "hey you get minutes because we have zero depth at the wings this year since you decided to blow" option. Painter will still be Painter and Johnny Thomas will still be Johnny Thomas, which means circle the North Carolina Central game on your calendar if they are in your family.

As far as the starters:

Javi will start at PG as an improved version of himself. He is a pretty good PG this year and next year I think he makes another leap as he has each offseason.

I'd imagine Mays will start at SG and see LoBrown creep some of his minutes as the season goes on. His likely improvement plus the "starter" minutes we get from Brown will not be a huge drop-off from what Degand is giving us this year. I like Degand but he is certainly not irreplaceable. Mays has actually looked decent at the off guard position compared to his disastrous results as a PG.

At SF we will have Scott Wood. Surely, he will have more confidence next year and with a year under his belt to adjust to the college game he will be a more reliable shooter/scorer. He's already leaps and bounds better than anyone thought he would be as an overall player. Most expected him to be a one dimensional shooter that was a liability elsewhere which turns out not to be the case.

At PF we will have an improved Richard Howell. He makes us much better defensively, gives us more scoring, rebounding, and another post presence. We lose a tiny bit of perimeter shooting from Horner which Mays/Brown/Wood can easily make up for.

At C Tracy Smith will be coming into his own and will be surrounded by more experience, another post presence, and good shooters. He probably won't get the attention he deserves but he will likely be a legit first team ALL-ACC player.


Notice that the scenario outlined does not even mention the off chance that Harrow and Brown are immediate impact players, the chance of CJ Williams returning to last year's form, or the POSSIBLE signing of CJ Leslie. In other words, I'm not relying on anything particularly unlikely to achieve said results. If any of those four happen, it's just icing on the cake.


This is the makings of an NCAA tournament team, why is this so hard to grasp?

[Edited on February 5, 2010 at 8:06 PM. Reason : making it rain]

2/5/2010 7:58:30 PM

We are 10 pt underdogs and are given about a 15-20% chance to win the game outright. Let's save the meltdown if we lose.

2/6/2010 12:59:43 PM

Quote :

"This is the makings of an NCAA tournament team, why is this so hard to grasp?"

You can throw out all the anecdotal evidence you want but the bottom line is there hasn't been any improvement in wins over the last 4 years. This is not the makings of an NCAA tournament team unless they start to win games. You don't make the tournament with recruiting rankings and next year predictions.

2/6/2010 1:11:13 PM

When Sendek left and we decided that Sendek's style was unacceptable we were guaranteed of having to rebuild from the bottom up. The rebuilding process takes time. We are where we were expected to be this year.
^Actually you do just look at UNC still being talked about as a bubble team and until recently still in the top 25...

[Edited on February 6, 2010 at 1:34 PM. Reason : ^Actually]

2/6/2010 1:21:37 PM

we should have hired tony bennett...

2/6/2010 1:37:41 PM

Quote :

"When Sendek left and we decided that Sendek's style was unacceptable we were guaranteed of having to rebuild from the bottom up. The rebuilding process takes time. We are where we were expected to be this year."

Except not. Especially considering we were picked third in the ACC in his second year and finished dead fucking last. That would underachievement to a normal person.

Being in last place in his fourth season after the expectations of his second season is not where I expected to be personally...

But to each his own.

2/6/2010 1:41:33 PM

^ You forget that we were actually doing decent that year until Degand destroyed his ACL. I think we were still vastly overrated coming into the season though. The media got ahead of itself b/c we had such a nice run in the ACC tournie the previous year and had a 1 and done caliber player in JJ Hickson coming to town.

2/6/2010 1:48:39 PM

I'm trying to figure out when "the makings of an NCAA Tournament team" became an acceptable peak for a coaches career at NC State

2/6/2010 2:03:13 PM

Right about the time we fired a legend because some of his players sold a pair of shoes?

2/6/2010 2:04:37 PM

DING DING DING

any kind of history that you still attach to this university is pretty much null and void

you think anyone gives a shit about NC State tradition that is under the age of 40?

we've got a long way to go to reclaim our "rightful" spot in the ACC. this is something that Sid, or whoever coaches us next, is going to have to fight tooth and nail to achieve.

2/6/2010 2:26:07 PM