^eh. almost definitely not the best series finale i've seen... the forty minutes on Earth were just painful, and dragged down the earlier awesomeness. going through the motions to wrap everyone up... wrap everyone up neatly, for the most part exactly how expected I might add.

Everything leading up to Earth and the moon/earth shot was all great.

Hell, previous BSG season finales were better than this. Especially 3, which I still contend is probably the best season finale I've seen.

I plan on rewatching at some point, maybe my opinion will change.

[Edited on March 21, 2009 at 2:28 AM. Reason : ,]

3/21/2009 2:26:49 AM

The best series finale Ive ever seen. Probably the most intense 2 hours of television Ive ever seen. And definitely the greatest series in the history of television.

There weren't any unanswered questions. The Daniel thing was pretty much self-contained and wrapped up when Ellen explained it; "We made an 8th Cylon. Cavil killed him, and there's no way we can get him back". Kara was an angel, like head-Six or head-Baltar, except she was in everyone's head... when people were saying she was in Apollo's head after the end of season 3, the series primere of season 4 made us think otherwise, then they turned it right back around on us.

Anyone else catch the cameo of Ronald Moore in the epilogue? He was the guy reading the magazine.

And since we're not really cloaking spoilers really anymore...

3/21/2009 2:38:47 AM

^Daniels was a simple plot device used to create drama between ellen and cavil in one episode, why are people talking about that

3/21/2009 2:53:35 AM

^my guess is because they had so much fun guessing who the final 5 were, and they want to think that there would be yet another cylon?

3/21/2009 2:56:36 AM

Quote :

"Anyone else catch the cameo of Ronald Moore in the epilogue? He was the guy reading the magazine."

how could anyone not catch that. it's like he was yelling "Hi, I'm ron moore and I'm here to smash the fuck out of the fourth wall!"

3/21/2009 4:23:22 AM

My expectation is that they would resolve it something like this: Human & Cylons interbred on Kobol before leaving to form colonies (or at some other point in the past) so that the humans already have some Cylon DNA mixed in. So by the time we got to present day some humans like the President & Baltar had higher concentrations of cylon DNA and could mentally sync up the current cyclons (explaining away the shared dreams – also the nuke on Caprica could have fused some of Caprica 6 & Baltars “programming” – they already established cyclons had some short range wireless connections since they could share in the same projection while being close to each other & not always touching). With this solution they could still have had all the same battles, and the same final destination & fate for everyone without saying “we’ve created too much mystery to reasonably resolve, so we’ll say God(s) did it and instead left the finale being more ambiguous as to whether god(s) had was/were at work.

3/21/2009 6:40:03 AM

I liked it, everything about it.

3/21/2009 9:23:15 AM

I liked it as well. You can't really ask for anything more.. except maybe Roslin getting a miraculous cure for cancer AGAIN. Adama's emotional parts are always really sad.

as for best series finale ever? I dunno. I liked Seinfeld's more.

3/21/2009 11:38:21 AM

From what I'm reading a ton of people are upset with the deus ex machina cop out. To some extent I agree, there were a few things I was hoping for a better answer on. At the same time since the start the show has been about prophecies and the Gods. Personally I would've preferred a little more set up for this ending, maybe a bigger build up with the prophecies, that could have easily been done in the previous few episodes, or even in this episode if they cut out the flashbacks, the majority of which were fairly meh.

I loved it though, each character deserved their own ending. Right after Starbuck jumped the ship I was incredibly satisfied with it, then they capped on the last 40 minutes just to close out each character.

And for anyone who watches Lost as well - this is exactly what I expect the Lost finale to be like. Lots of questions will go unanswered but if you look at the whole picture its resolved.

[Edited on March 21, 2009 at 12:27 PM. Reason : a]

3/21/2009 12:26:16 PM

yep. Flashbacks were really lame.

Oh hai anders, have a monologue on caprica so we can voiceover it when you're about to die.

EFF DAT.


I mean, it's the easy ending that anyone could call from season 1, and BSG has never been a show to take the easy way out in previous finales. Disappointing.

[Edited on March 21, 2009 at 12:46 PM. Reason : .]

3/21/2009 12:45:30 PM

pretty good. DS9 is still the best though.

3/21/2009 1:02:38 PM

Quote :

"yep. Flashbacks were really lame."

seriously? I really enjoyed them.

I enjoyed the entire episode... I wish kara had more resolution, but it was an awesome ending.

3/21/2009 1:22:04 PM

good interview with Ronald D. Moore about the finale:

http://tinyurl.com/crdpk5

3/21/2009 4:05:11 PM

I've had Bear's version of All Along the Watchtower stuck in my head since season 3. I love this song. And all the music from the show really.

3/21/2009 5:01:02 PM

Watchtower was an aspect of the show that never really clicked for me until Starbuck played it on the piano (which might be one my favorite scenes of the entire series).

3/21/2009 5:05:25 PM

"there has to be some kind of way out of here" made me giggle a little, I need to go back and rewatch to see if starbuck did anything that an angel or vision couldn't have done, like shoot a cylon etc. Loved loved loved the finale and the show, wish I had been there from the beginning but the last 5 months of watching where great.

oh and cavill sticking the gun in his mouth was awesome

3/21/2009 7:04:36 PM

Quote :

"seriously? I really enjoyed them. "

yes seriously, they were cheap last minute setups for sentimental garbage.

3/21/2009 7:24:09 PM

I loved it. Absolutely loved it. But the one thing everyone should've taken away from this:

"You know He doesn't like that name."

Hendrix is God.



All humor aside, I've never seen a more poignant, beautiful, emotionally wrenching, and above all HUMAN show on television. I'm truly sad to see it go.

3/21/2009 9:21:54 PM

I have not seen the season premier. I will most likely not see it until next weekend. If you want to spoil the ending for me thats kewl. I will not read this thread. But I assume some of you dislike me enough to send me nasty messages, emails, porno, pictures or packages.


go

3/22/2009 12:46:25 AM

^Just watched it on DVR and I really liked it. I couldn't have thought of a better way to end it where most of the fans would be any happier than that. It had lots of action, Cavell blew his fucking brains out, all of the storylines were tied up, and holy shit that part with Adama and Rosalyn was a tough one. Old people crying has to be one of the worst things to watch.

All in all I loved it. Helluva good series and I will REALLY miss this one.

3/22/2009 12:49:39 AM

Quote :

""there has to be some kind of way out of here" made me giggle a little, I need to go back and rewatch to see if starbuck did anything that an angel or vision couldn't have done, like shoot a cylon etc. Loved loved loved the finale and the show, wish I had been there from the beginning but the last 5 months of watching where great."

Like turn the jump key? Shoot people during the mutiny?

Starbuck suddenly disappearing and not explaining daniel was such a cop out.

3/22/2009 3:21:18 AM

Quote :

"Watchtower was an aspect of the show that never really clicked for me until Starbuck played it on the piano (which might be one my favorite scenes of the entire series)"

you are on crack.

season three finale was epic. I don't know how else to describe it, trying to abstain from internet sp34k. failing.

3/22/2009 3:55:12 AM

Seriously

Give us Adama going down with the ship, flying it into the sun with dead president.
Give us answers on starbuck and daniel and not just some bullshit disappearing into the wind.
Give us the final survivor count.
Give us something less hopeful.
Give us something that fit more into Season 1 BSG.

Fuck this finale, it sucked.

[Edited on March 22, 2009 at 5:14 AM. Reason : a]

3/22/2009 5:02:42 AM

Also, which of the humans decided to have sex with the ape creatures to keep the species going? And how did the dating there work?

3/22/2009 9:08:38 AM

^^ yes.

3/22/2009 9:11:33 AM

^^^ It couldn't have been less hopeful though. The whole point was that it was just set up for it happening all over again. I was very disappointed Adama didn't die. I loved his character but I thought the only fitting end for him was to go down with his ship. And yes, I agree there should have been more answers with Starbuck. I'm fine with her being an angel, I would've just liked a little more set up for it.

^^^^ Yeah, the use of Watchtower in that episode was amazing. I watched it multiple times, great freaking episode.

I would have to say the start of season 2 (Exodus, episodes 3-4 really) and the finale of season 3 were my favorite moments.

3/22/2009 9:50:29 AM

SO if you guys read that blog post someone linked on the last page, the producers cleared up the Daniel thing.


It was supposed to be a Cain & Abel kind of thing - dad loves you more than he loves me, so I killed him. He wasn't Kara's dad. They were surprised that people thought that, and thought it was interesting, but probably didnt have time to go back and expand that story in the direction that the fans thought it was going in because the episodes had already been filmed.

Kara was, like Baltar said, an angel. No other explanation needed. She served a higher purpose, just like Head Six and Head Baltar.


As far as the other stuff - Adama dying? Come on, that's cliche and lame. Plus he was the type of person who would never give up on anything - I thought that was established throughout the series. Those types of people don't commit suicide, no matter what happens to them.

[Edited on March 22, 2009 at 11:23 AM. Reason : .]

3/22/2009 11:22:14 AM

flying into the sun with galactica would've been acceptable for Adama in my opinion.

3/22/2009 11:26:48 AM

^^ I do agree it would have been cliche, and I wouldn't have wanted Adama to just suicide. From the start I had always though Adama would sacrifice himself and the Galactica to save everyone else, but I think it was an important part of his growth that he was willing to let go of the ship for Roslin.

3/22/2009 11:37:16 AM

Give it up on the Daniel thing.

3/22/2009 11:47:49 AM

Watched it with my dad. I have NOT ever watched this show (despite hearing good things about it), so I'm probably not qualified to comment on it. However, I thought it was completely lack luster.

The whole "mysterious forces (aka God) at work, it's all a pre-ordained cycle" was stupid. Completely unnecessary, especially since this is suppose to be a sci-fi series. There's nothing wrong with establishing a religion or religious culture into your story if it helps to set the atmosphere, but the introduction of prophecy and other unexplained forces almost always turns into a giant deus ex machina moment where the main characters get backed into a corner and require divine intervention to get out of jail free. This series could have held onto its survival-by-the-skin-of-our-teeth angle without having to resort to that kind of crap. Instead, we predictably got a cop-out where certain items are deliberately left unexplained because it somehow makes the show "deeper" if the audience is left to make their own interpretations. Color me unimpressed.

The other thing that really bugged me was how willingly everybody just gave up their ships and technology at the end. Seriously? You're willingly going to forgo medical supplies, power sources, equipment for agricultural development, weapons, etc, and go back to sticks and stones? I remember at least one guy paying lip service to this issue, but that's about it. It just struck me as completely unbelievable and unrealistic that they'd throw away all of that equipment and infrastructure like that. At a bare minimum, what if the cylons somehow managed to track them down again? I just couldn't believe for the life of me that there was near-unanimous consensus on this issue. But to be completely fair, all of this seems to have happened because of the retarded religious angle.

The rest of the series may have been unbearably awesome, but this finale fell really short.

3/22/2009 1:56:02 PM

3/22/2009 2:04:20 PM

Quote :

"At a bare minimum, what if the cylons somehow managed to track them down again?"

I assumed the cylons were dead for the most part. They gave up their technology because that is what caused their downfall, building technology up to such an advanced level... but you're right, I do find it hard to believe they wouldn't at least keep shovels or some essential tools.

3/22/2009 2:31:21 PM

^The interview said the cylon colony got sucked into the black hole.


Anyway, the more I ruminate on it, the lamer the Kara deus ex machina was. Other than that glaring problem, it was a good ending

3/22/2009 2:37:50 PM

Glad to see I'm not the only one not gushing over this finale.

3/22/2009 4:07:31 PM

Quote :

"Fuck this finale, it sucked. "

You are a tool - it was a great two hours.

3/22/2009 4:12:15 PM

^ Because I don't like the final answer to every question that the show raised to be answered

"Oh, It was God."

3/22/2009 4:16:27 PM

Quote :

"I have NOT ever watched this show (despite hearing good things about it), so I'm probably not qualified to comment on it."

you're right, you're not

3/22/2009 5:26:46 PM

Quote :

"this is suppose to be a sci-fi series."

It was never meant to be a sci-fi series. It was meant to be an allegory for today's world. The story was about the characters and the things they endured, not the shit that they had.

3/22/2009 6:03:18 PM

^Granted. But I still think that the show could have accomplished all of that without resorting to mysticism.

^^Are you saying that my comments about the finale (not the whole series, mind you) have no merit because I haven't watched the whole show, or because you disagree with my assessment?

3/22/2009 7:02:37 PM

^Both.

3/22/2009 7:44:13 PM

They obviously backed themselves into a corner with the whole Kara thing. I don't blame them for going that direction with her.

I just wished they found a more elegant solution for the ships. It makes no sense they would turn their backs on antibiotics and modern medicine. They should have parked the ships on Europa or Io or something.

3/22/2009 10:10:47 PM

The fact that more of you aren't appalled and disappointed in this cop-out, insanely easy ending is upsetting.

"WATCH OUT FOR ROBOTS GUYS. THIS HAS ALL HAPPENED BEFORE, AND IT MIGHT HAPPEN AGAIN!"

People were saying, "oh, that could happen, but it would be way too easy and retarded, so it won't" back in season 1. Then in season 4 or whenever they found "earth," people were like "oh, wtf? earth is all fucked up? cool! what? It won't end like I thought it might back in season 1!!!"

we got punk'd people.



rather than be actually cool and actually meaningful, or throw a curveball at us like they have so many times, they gave us the same recycled bullshit that has been a theme in scifi and other shit for years and years. just really uncharacteristic of this show, which is why it's so disappointing.


GARBAGE.

[Edited on March 22, 2009 at 11:08 PM. Reason : .]

3/22/2009 11:02:39 PM

Hopy fucknuts - we do have to watch out for robots.

3/23/2009 12:34:07 PM

"Our science charges ahead while our souls lag behind"

"We leave it all behind and start over"

The first quote negates the second. The first quote is true whether science is producing battlestars or sharper sticks. There is nothing noble or more human about primitivism, and while it is clearly necessary for the ending the writers want, it is philosophically bankrupt in my opinion.

That said, it could be necessary for god's plan, since keeping technology would make Earth2 a beacon for what remains of the evil cylons in space to track them down, while a 149,900 year delay would give the cylons plenty of time to wear out and die off, lacking the ability to resurrect.

3/23/2009 1:20:43 PM

Quote :

"Are you saying that my comments about the finale (not the whole series, mind you) have no merit because I haven't watched the whole show, or because you disagree with my assessment?"

Both

it's basically ridiculous to assume you know something about the show by watching one episode

but let me break it down for you

Quote :

"The whole "mysterious forces (aka God) at work, it's all a pre-ordained cycle" was stupid. Completely unnecessary, especially since this is suppose to be a sci-fi series."

The entire series has had the undertone of one Cylon God vs. the human polytheistic system: it's therefore more than within the realm of possibility to have (OMG!) religion as a theme in the final episode. And I personally liked Baltar's acknowledgment that it doesn't even matter what it is. I don't really care about "religion" as an issue in sci-fi (if anything, it makes characters more like... well, people): BSG is more like a soap opera in space than it is a science fiction show anyway.

Quote :

"This series could have held onto its survival-by-the-skin-of-our-teeth angle without having to resort to that kind of crap."

Yeah, because blind jumps while still attached to a Cylon colony = totally safe. It's not like they were ever in danger, right? Hell, nobody must ever feel that they're in danger on this show because they believe in a religion! Man, I sure am glad we never actually got scared about what was going to happen to these people. Just like regular people, everyone was scared shitless that all of that religious stuff wasn't true (in fact, it didn't work out for them when they found Earth #1). Even Roslin, who was the most steeped in the prophecy stuff, had a complete breakdown and lost all faith. They've been barely surviving for so long that they're either 1) going to catch a break or 2) perish. Finding Earth #1 basically decimated all morale... so they went more optimistic for the ending (I guess it depends on how you look at it: if you rant and rave about the last two minutes, or if you're just happy that the human race found somewhere to live). There really aren't too many other options for finales: you either go light or dark.

Quote :

"I just couldn't believe for the life of me that there was near-unanimous consensus on this issue."

I don't think there was. But wasting the finale's time with squabbling about a minor issue would not have been productive at all. And after being trapped on ships for so long without anywhere to live, I don't imagine it'd be as much of an issue as you think.

Quote :

"At a bare minimum, what if the cylons somehow managed to track them down again? "

I guess you missed the part about the cylon colony being sucked into a black hole. Racetrack's nukes hit the colony, and away it went.

3/23/2009 1:31:05 PM

The finale never really implies that "God" even serves in a Creator role within the mythology of the show. For all we know this entity is just an interested and sometimes interfering observer in the vein of Q from Star Trek: The Next Generation. The wormhole aliens from Deep Space Nine served in the same capacity. This whole "omnipotent being who observes humanity and is sort of like God but not quite" thing is a trope that is seen pretty frequently in science fiction. Klaatu, anyone? Or whatever the hell was responsible for the monoliths from 2001?

3/23/2009 2:02:35 PM

^^ i doubt all cylons where in the colony

3/23/2009 2:41:02 PM

well of course not, seeing as how Caprica Six was on Earth at the end

but if there are any floating out in space, they officially have no home to go to

it's not like there were base stars chilling out around the colony or anything, though

3/23/2009 3:02:49 PM

no i meant bad cylons, i figure there are base stars elsewhere, like in the mining operations and such

3/23/2009 3:36:16 PM