Quote :

"The way I see it is...Kobe is as good as if not better than either Lebron or Wade. That cancels one of them out. Gasol is better than Bosh IMO. Comes down to the last superstar for Miami along with Mike Miller and Haslem compared to Bynum, Artest, Odom, Fisher, Brown and Blake. Throw in Phil Jackson and not sure why some fools are making it a clear path ring for the 3 queens."

Riley is pretty much on par with Phil and they now have a pretty nice team with Z so it will make for a great series pretty evenly matched.

7/13/2010 11:47:32 PM

haha, Z

7/14/2010 12:36:00 AM

Shits about to get epic if RAJA comes to LA. You're talking about the ability to play kobe bell artest gasol and bynum and shut everything the fuck down. Kobe and Raja never got along because they were both fierce competitors. Not many of those in the NBA.

The heat will get destroyed inside in the finals.

[Edited on July 14, 2010 at 1:00 AM. Reason : you know lebron will play point with wade miller haslem and bosh in crunch time]

7/14/2010 12:59:50 AM

Derek Fisher officially back to the Lakers

7/14/2010 4:06:03 PM

^
I can't be any more neutral about that.

7/14/2010 4:20:28 PM

Quote :

"We know Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Udonis Haslem will join Chris Bosh on the frontline in Miami next season. Juwan Howard is likely on his way as well. But where else might they turn to pick up another player or two up front? Shaquille O'Neal is an option, but he could also head to Atlanta -- something we touched on earlier Wednesday -- and the Mavericks and Celtics could also potentially land Shaq. And as ESPN's Chad Ford writes, Brad Miller and Kwame Brown could also find their way down to South Beach:"

7/14/2010 4:23:35 PM

there they go with that south beach shit again

7/14/2010 7:27:20 PM

ehh the west is still deeper. despite what the streets are saying. both have 3 super teams.

heat
celtics
magic
bulls

lakers
jazz
mavs
nuggets
thunder

7/15/2010 1:45:56 AM

Bill Simmons article about this whole situation. I think this absolutely hits the nail on the head

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100709

the mailbag/letters from Cleveland fans at the end are good too

Quote :

"Five thoughts and then we'll turn it over to my readers, because honestly, they did a better job of summing up last night's LeBacle than I ever could: 1. One of my first ESPN.com columns was titled, "Is Clemens the Antichrist?" It covered how my relationship changed with Roger Clemens as a Red Sox fan -- in five years, he went from my favorite baseball player to my least favorite athlete in any sport -- and how the turning point happened in 1996, when Clemens signed with Toronto and showed no remorse at the ensuing news conference. I still remember seeing that Blue Jays cap squeezed on his fat stupid face for 45 solid minutes, waiting for him to throw Red Sox fans a bone, waiting for him to say anything that would make me think, "Regardless of how this turned out, the past 12 years meant something to me," or "Just know that this happened because of Boston's front office, not their great fans." He only threw us a couple of canned comments, the same way someone would throw table scraps to a dog. I remember how angry it made me. I remember wanting to whip my remote control through the television, then realizing that I couldn't afford a new one. I remember taking down my autographed photo of Clemens' 20th strikeout against Seattle and sticking it in a closet. I remember thinking that I would never like sports quite as much ever again. So when Clemens went to Toronto, got in shape, won two straight Cy Youngs and forced a trade to the Yankees, really, a column called "Is Clemens the Antichrist?" became inevitable as soon as I found a bigger forum to write it. I hated that guy as much as you could hate a professional athlete without things getting creepy. And you know what? What LeBron did to Cleveland last night was worse. Much worse. It's one thing to leave. I get it. You're 25. You don't know any better. You're tired of carrying mediocre teams. You want help. You want the luxury of not having to play a remarkable game every single night for eight straight months. You want to live in South Beach. You want to play with your buddies. I get it. I get it. But turning that decision into a one-hour special, pretending that it hadn't been decided weeks ago, using a charity as your cover-up and ramming a pitchfork in Cleveland's back like you were at the end of a Friday the 13th movie and Cleveland was Jason ... there just had to be a better way. I blame the people around him. I blame the lack of a father figure in his life. I blame us for feeding his narcissism to the point that he referred to himself in the third person five times in 45 minutes. I blame local and national writers (including myself) for apparently not doing a good enough job explaining to athletes like LeBron what sports mean to us, and how it IS a marriage, for better and worse, and that we're much more attached to these players and teams than they realize. I blame David Stern for not throwing his body in front of that show. I blame everyone. We are already fools for caring about athletes considerably more than they care about us. We know this and we do it anyway. We just like sports. We keep watching for moments like Donovan's goal against Algeria, and we keep caring through thick and thin for moments like Dave Roberts' steal and Tracy Porter's interception. We put up with all the sobering stuff because that's the price you pay -- for every Gordon Hayward half-court shot, or USA-Canada gold-medal game, there are 20 Michael Vicks and Ben Roethlisbergers. Last night didn't make me like sports any less -- my guard has been up since 1996 -- it just reinforced all the things I already didn't like. For LeBron not to understand what he was doing -- or even worse, not to care -- made me quickly turn off the television, find my kids, give them their nightly bath and try to forget the sports atrocity that I had just witnessed. He just couldn't have handled it worse. Never in my life can I remember someone swinging from likable to unlikable that quickly. I will forgive him some day because I like watching him play basketball, and whether you're rooting for or against him, his alliance with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh in Miami created one the greatest "Holy s---, how is this going to play out?????" scenarios in recent sports history. Sports are supposed to be fun, and eventually, this will become fun -- for everyone but people in Cleveland -- because we finally have a Yankees of basketball. But I will never, ever, not in a million years, understand why it had to play out that way. If LeBron James is the future of sports, then I shudder for the future. 2. One silver lining for LeBron: No other professional athlete in any team sport could have generated the interest that he generated last night. No baseball player, no football player, no basketball player, no hockey player. He truly is the King ... of something. 3. I posted this clip on Twitter last night, but it's worth posting again: the 1996 Bash on the Beach. I won't even tell you the context (a reader will explain in a few paragraphs). Just watch what happened, listen to the announcers and choke on the irony. 4. Michael Jordan would have wanted to kick Dwyane Wade's butt every spring, not play with him. This should be mentioned every day for the rest of LeBron's career. It's also the kryptonite for any "Some day we'll remember LeBron James as the best basketball player ever" argument. We will not. Jordan and Russell were the greatest players of all time. Neither of them would have made the choice that LeBron did. That should tell you something. 5. Sports shouldn't mean this much. I promise more thoughts later in the month. See, there's an incredible basketball story here that really has no precedent: Only when Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant played together in 2001 and 2002, after Kobe had ascended to top-three status and Shaq hadn't drifted out of that group yet, have two of the best three NBA players played on the same team. I have no idea how Miami will fill out the team, or whether you can win a championship by being so good offensively that defense, rebounding and role players don't matter. We're about to find out. I am not ready to think about it yet."

[Edited on July 15, 2010 at 3:42 PM. Reason : sadf]

7/15/2010 3:39:39 PM

First, [old]. Welcome to last week's article. Second, what exactly is your point? I don't think you would find many people disagreeing with Simmons' article.

I really don't think people have been comparing Lebron to MJ since he started flaming out in the postseason the last couple years. When he pretty much beat Detroit by himself, the excitement started to swirl. But since then, I think his lack of "killer instinct" and just sheer desire to win has been pretty evident and will always separate him from Jordan.

Even from style of play point of view, Lebron will always be compared to Magic and not Jordan. Kobe is the closest player ever to resembling Jordan in almost every aspect.

Lebron will still probably go down as one of the greatest basketball players ever because of the numbers he's going to put up over his career and just the amazing things that he will be able to do with his god-given physical ability. But he won't crack that very very small upper-tier that Russel, Jordan, Kobe (recently), etc. have reached. I also think he's fine with that. He's still going to make a billion dollars, he'll more than likely win a couple championships, a couple more MVPs, and go down as one of the greatest of all time.

And Cleveland will still be without a championship.

7/15/2010 3:52:53 PM

motherfuckers around here are so damn touchy when you post something. Its a good article that shows a prominent sports writers' perspective, which hasnt been posted in the thread it applies to the most yet.

I dont care if its old, and I dont know what you are trying to imply by asking what my point is. I just wanted to share the article with people who havent read it yet

7/15/2010 4:00:30 PM

We care that its old.

We're tired of you bringing down this thread with your negatively, extreme bias and 8th grade level prose.

You said you were going to stop following the NBA if he left Cleveland. He left Cleveland. Peace.

7/15/2010 4:14:29 PM

Quote :

"not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7,"

lol

7/15/2010 6:55:02 PM

^^suck my fucking dick, I'm tired of you following me around hounding every damn thing I say.

And 8th grade prose? jesus christ you are pathetic with your trolling. I didnt realize you were Bob Ryan up in here. Its fucking sports talk on the wolfweb, not some intellectual forum frequented by sports writers and real analysts.

I used to think it was a little joke where you would try to post after me and try to push my buttons. Maybe youre just jealous that you cant be me or in my group of friends, maybe I should be flattered that you feel the urge to write your quirky comments after everything I say, I dont know and I dont really care, just get off of my nuts already.

and for the record, I'm not being negative, or biased, even though I have every right to be.

[Edited on July 15, 2010 at 8:04 PM. Reason : change your tampon]

7/15/2010 8:03:27 PM

Wade is taking up for LeBron: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5384202

and referring to himself in 3rd person:

Quote :

""LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Kobe Bryant, guys like that understand what Boston's defense was about," Wade said. "Their defense was built on not letting one player beat them. You either settle for the outside shot or you pass to your teammates. LeBron had one bad game in the playoffs. Other than that, he did what he could do with the defense all watching him." "

7/15/2010 10:20:02 PM

You're right

I am jealous that I can't be you or in your group of friends

Partly for the fellowship you guys have, partly for the camaraderie

but mainly because I'd rather be buttfucking your wife

7/16/2010 9:40:45 AM

7/16/2010 9:51:52 AM

slave famous fancies being the king of sports talk on an nc state message board. tell us slave, what other message boards do you post on or is this the only one?

7/16/2010 10:35:45 AM

The 506
gamefaqs
Adult DVD Talk
Freeones
Operation Sports
IGN
hiphopdx





just to name a few

7/16/2010 10:39:50 AM

oh I'm going to look for you on hiphopdx. I wonder how you feel about the level of prose over there

7/16/2010 10:56:36 AM

Penny Hardaway wants to play for Heat as well

7/16/2010 1:44:17 PM

jj reddick's getting a fat raise to stay in orlando

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5385470

7/16/2010 1:44:25 PM

^^lol. that would be the shit if it's 1996 Penny.

7/16/2010 2:18:57 PM

kind of long, but very, very interesting read

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AgDe46QD8gUcf1y8WsZuZSY5nYcB?slug=aw-heatfreeagency071610

7/17/2010 2:56:47 PM

so, long story short, LeBron James is a spoiled, jerkass douche with a short attention span?

7/17/2010 3:33:12 PM

and Riley masterminded the whole thing for the last 2 years

7/17/2010 3:35:46 PM

So apparently Dwyane Wade is an idiot... can't wait to watch them lose.

7/18/2010 7:47:52 PM

that was a good article.

What I got out of it is that Riley is the shrewedest GM of the bunch and that ultimately James cares a lot about his legacy, winning, and being the alpha dog.

This whole thing increased my respect for Wade a lot, he must REALLY care about winning to be willing to give up his alpha dog status like this.

Bosh is obviously a follower who wants to be famous and I can't blame him after wasting the first half of his career in Toronto.

I've never looked forward to an NBA season this much...

It'll be interesting to see how Kobe responds to being an afterthought all offseason coming off a title, I'm willing to bet he puts a ton of offseason work in to try to make himself relevant this season before the playoffs.

Miami still needs a big body to match up with Orl/LA, Varnado is still too green.

7/18/2010 8:19:05 PM

^^care to elaborate

7/18/2010 11:12:03 PM

Quote :

"So apparently Dwyane Wade is an idiot"

How so??

7/19/2010 9:54:11 AM

Jordan wouldn't have done it
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5391478

7/19/2010 10:10:14 AM

Again, jordan's thoughts on the matter are pretty void because he was surrounded by stars like pippen, grant, and rodman.

With all that talent in place they were able to lure great supporting pieces like harper, longley, kukoc, etc.

The bulls were still one of the best teams in the league in 94 without jordan in his prime!

Let's see how good cleveland is next year sans lebron...

7/19/2010 10:27:57 AM

And Jordan's thoughts on the matter are also void because he still wants to be known as the greatest ever. He's only sweating now because Kobe is about to get that 6th ring and tie him up.

7/19/2010 10:42:18 AM

in that 94 season, Pippen and the Bulls won 2 less regular season games than they did the year before.

I think lebron really wants to distance himself from the Jordan compairsons. He switched away from 23 to a single digit, whereas Kobe switched to 24 and invited it.

If anything, this is Lebron showing he wants to play and distribute more like Magic and have his own showtime. the Jordan/ Franchise Savior legacy didn't fit his personality and sure as shit don't fit Cleveland pro sports

7/19/2010 11:12:36 AM

Quote :

"How so??"

Oh, maybe it was just big news in New York City. But he made some VERY insensitive comments comparing the Heat losing a few games this season to the World Trade Center coming down... I know people on TWW are douches and probably think that's funny more than anything else, but that is a pretty sacred "no joke" thing if you're from the NYC area...

V you're overzealous to troll, man. Pretty obvious that I was saying it was big news there because people don't joke about it, not that Wade would know or care about that. Still a few weeks away though until you're back to full strength

[Edited on July 19, 2010 at 11:17 AM. Reason : x]

7/19/2010 11:12:51 AM

Good thing he's from Chicago then

7/19/2010 11:15:42 AM

Probably similar to Roy Williams making the Haiti Disaster comments. Stupid fucking comments, but doesn't necessarily reflect their overall intelligence.

But I'm also biased, because I love Wade.

7/19/2010 11:16:45 AM

slave famous is like the half-rebuilt death star at the moment

7/19/2010 11:20:51 AM

Sometimes I regret setting bar so high for myself

I fear I may have peaked too soon

7/19/2010 11:24:01 AM

7/19/2010 11:27:28 AM

Really, it's been all downhill since the Saddamizer days.

7/19/2010 11:37:43 AM

get back to posting basketball arena bios

7/19/2010 9:31:51 PM

So apparently Lebron's new $50 million house has mortgage payments of $500k/month

7/20/2010 2:07:10 PM

Another irrelevant comment this time from magic. If anyone can't comment its certainly magic he got drafted #1 to a team that already had the nba's all time leading scorer.

On his championship teams there wasn't a single player in cleveland last year that could have cracked the rotation.

I completely respect that magic is one of the greatest basketball players ever but he's definitely not one of the smarter ones.

7/21/2010 12:56:33 PM

TMAC to the bulls heat or lakers could be a potential game changer in terms of depth.

7/21/2010 10:04:55 PM

Only problem with T-mac on any of these teams is that unlike all of these other signings that have taken place with older players lately, T-Mac actually believes he IS a go to scorer and a night in, night out leader, hence his frequent 5-22 shooting nights in new york, minus his 1st game there....the only successful game he had (exaggerating, but you get the point)

7/21/2010 11:21:29 PM

los angeles could use a guy on the bench to take shots. the bulls could use a guy to go get his own points not named rose.

7/21/2010 11:27:01 PM

Haha, yeh the only thing holding LAC back from a playoff spot is T-Mac

7/22/2010 12:03:45 AM

Quote :

"Again, jordan's thoughts on the matter are pretty void because he was surrounded by stars like pippen, grant, and rodman."

I'm a Jordan hater but come on. I'll give you Pippen was a stud but Horace Grant and Dennis Rodman are no better than a Mo Williams or an Antawn Jamison talent-wise.

7/22/2010 2:29:13 AM

^heard colin cowherd say the other day that Dennis rodman averaged 15 rebounds a game while he was on the bulls, not to even mention his defense. That's quite a bit better contribution than anyone else on the cavs was making.

7/22/2010 5:45:01 AM