I'm not saying Lowe has been a perfect coach and that all our losses are the players faults

What I am saying is that eventually, players have to make plays. When we lose games because we miss open shots, thats more on the players than the coach. If you can draw up a play that gets a good look, but you miss, its on the player. Some people ITT want to put 100% of the blame on Lowe. Its a team effort, win or lose.

2/16/2010 1:27:24 PM

Quote :

"damn you Sidney for not motivating our players enough on successfully defending 75' shots that Florida loss is all Lowe's fault"

It NEVER should have gotten to that point.

2/16/2010 1:27:46 PM

Quote :

"it is not ENTIRELY the players"

nor is it entirely the coach like someone like packboozie would have you believe

2/16/2010 1:28:39 PM

Quote :

"as a coach, i would expect my players to not turn the ball over like hotcakes. id still fix it tho"

that's something that would be worked on constantly in practice. unlike free throws.

2/16/2010 1:31:42 PM

Speak of TOs, Virginia improve their TO margin from -0.7 to 2.2 this season
We improve from -3.3 to 0.
We are not much worse...

[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 1:34 PM. Reason : ]

2/16/2010 1:34:17 PM

Quote :

"When we lose games because we miss open shots, thats more on the players than the coach."

This depends. As an extreme example, I could probably draw up plays to get Richard Howell opens 3s all day. That doesn't mean it's a good game plan. Now sure, when a team has one player worth a damn, and every 3 or 4 games one guard worth a damn, it's pretty hard to draw up a game plan to your strengths. Which is why no one expected us to win the ACC this year. But I sure as hell was hoping for more than 2-9

2/16/2010 2:07:54 PM

Agreed, but if Wood, Horner, Mays, Javi are open for shots and not hitting them, thats different. When the guys who are supposed to be your shooters are missing shots, thats just the way it goes sometimes.

2/16/2010 2:30:38 PM

*all the time

2/16/2010 2:33:36 PM

Always next year.

2/16/2010 3:32:33 PM

you have to adjust your gameplan depending on how guys are playing.

This does not happen. Its:

run around the arc while tracy does all the work trying to get open.
if they shut tracy down there has been no sign that we have a plan b

and none of this shit STARTS to happen until there are 15 seconds on the shot clock or fewer

These are all coaching issues

[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 3:38 PM. Reason : *]

2/16/2010 3:38:24 PM

^ agreed. We never set screens, there is no semblance of any type of offensive philosophy and I have yet to see us run a set play correctly.

2/16/2010 3:47:03 PM

isn't it amazing that we beat duke w/o running one single set-play correctly?

2/16/2010 4:22:36 PM

Quote :

"that Florida loss is all Lowe's fault"

I say it is....his fouling strategy when they had hit all of 1 3-pointer made me go WTF

Like jbrick said, we should have won easily.

Quote :

"nor is it entirely the coach like someone like packboozie would have you believe"

I'm sorry but in college it is, they are his players. He takes the blame when they suck.

2/16/2010 4:23:59 PM

Quote :

"I'm sorry but in college it is"

This is stupid.

2/16/2010 4:53:01 PM

so when we lose a game, its entirely coaching, and never anything to do with the players' skill or execution....

. . . . . .

2/16/2010 4:54:19 PM

the vast majority of our losses this season are a result of poor play

but you can definitely point to a handful of them that were a result of Coach

2/16/2010 5:07:17 PM

Honestly if it is entirely coaching every year, then why the fuck isn't Duke winning the NCAAs each season. Lame ass argument. Sid and the team are struggling this year and it is due to some of his decisions (Horner and CJ too much PT), but a lot of it is on the player's not executing.

Javi turning the ball over repeatedly on basic entry passes, Wood and the rest of the guards shooting like Stevie Wonder, Smith picking up stupid fouls, Degand getting all out of control on fast breaks, etc. All Lowe can do is put in the players he thinks will execute the game plan the best. He cannot make the passes and shoot the shots. Eventually the players have to accept some blame (like Wood did last week).




[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 5:09 PM. Reason : sdf]

2/16/2010 5:09:12 PM

That's not the point....the coach recruits the players so if his players suck its no one's fault but his own.

2/16/2010 5:11:57 PM

you bought season tickets...you are supporting lowe, whether explicitly or tacitly...therefore this is no one's fault but yours...lowe is your coach...you paid to bring him here...blame yourself...these are your recruits packboozie...these losses are YOUR FAULT

2/16/2010 5:13:47 PM

^^ but when its the saaaame mistakes all season long and the same mistakes for the past four seasons, that is coaching

2/16/2010 5:14:20 PM

^^ lol

^ It is not the same mistakes the past four seasons. Lack of effort and teamwork were the primary reasons for failure in seasons 2 and 3. Season 1 was a combo of injuries, inexperience, and learning a new system.

This year it is poor execution more than anything else IMO.




[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 5:22 PM. Reason : dg]

2/16/2010 5:22:33 PM

could you imagine jimmy v was bball coach, and ronald reagan was president. i would have loved to see us ballin back then.

2/16/2010 5:24:58 PM

Quote :

"I'm sorry but in college it is"

Again, this is what i'm talking about. This is a weak argument.

Are you telling me that every team that has a winning record has a good coach, and every team that has a losing record has a bad coach?

I hope everybody know that myself, and I think a lot of others that are arguing against the Lowe-haters aren't saying he's a great coach, nor are we saying that he hasn't made mistakes and continues to make mistakes. We're just arguing that all the team's woes don't fall on him, and it's still a bit early to throw him under the bus and declare that he's a terrible college coach.

2/16/2010 5:29:34 PM

not only is he a terrible college coach but.....

2/16/2010 5:31:56 PM

but you're going to hold his performance as head coach of the fucking timberwolves and grizzlies against him too?

right, he really fucked up those TALENTED teams.

2/16/2010 5:58:43 PM

let's be honest though....he does go down as perhaps the worst head coach in NBA history

2/16/2010 6:00:11 PM

I hope packboozie has shamed himself out of posting again in this thread.

2/16/2010 6:03:43 PM

i think lowe is in the top half of grizzlies coaches in terms of wins

that team has been terrible FOREVER

i think he's got the 4th most wins in franchise history? not sure though

2/16/2010 6:04:33 PM

^^^what are your thoughts on Tim Floyd? 2nd worst record as an NBA coach, but not a bad college coach at USC with some decent guard talent

^seriously...he coached 2 expansion teams...every single expansion team in NBA history has gone like 30-40 games below .500 each of their first few seasons

[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 6:06 PM. Reason : .]

2/16/2010 6:05:19 PM

Quote :

"I hope packboozie has shamed himself out of posting again in this thread."

lol ok because I won't put the blame on our players.

Damn me for not blaming Horner/Javi/Mays etc for sucking ass.

Sorry but in the college game the coach takes the blame.

[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 6:56 PM. Reason : for some reason you nerds think I give a fuck what you think about me]

2/16/2010 6:55:34 PM

Quote :

"Sorry but in the college game the coach takes the blame"

basketball knowledge right here folks...the players are 100% immune to any and all blame, regardless of how bad they play

2/16/2010 6:57:54 PM

You just cannot put the blame on the players.

But of course I wasn't one of the dumbasses that booed Daniel Evans off the field.

The guys are giving all the got, well on most nights. You can't blame them.

2/16/2010 6:59:13 PM

You're right, missing every open shot and layups is on the coach

2/16/2010 7:01:17 PM

I'm not trying to put all of the blame on the players

But it seems like you're unwilling to put any blame on them, regardless of how they play

Speaking of the guys giving it all they've got, why am I surprised you won't attribute any of that to Sid getting them ready and getting them to give their all? Especially when you blame Sid for not having them ready.

Positive thing - players credit
Negative thing - coaches fault

2/16/2010 7:01:17 PM

But it seems like you pro-Lowe people are unwilling to put any blame on Lowe.

Lowe gets paid, these kids don't. He is ultimately in charge of the product on the court.

Whatever, I'm out going to play ball. Frankly I don't give a damn anymore....we're going to suck next year too.

2/16/2010 7:03:06 PM

just like an 83 title doesnt entitle any of us fans to anything, neither do your season tix

i continue to assume the fact that you pay for season tickets is why you're so impatient with the program and the time it takes to implement a system

you shouldnt let your own investments get in the way of rational basketball analysis

2/16/2010 7:04:03 PM

Quote :

"^^^what are your thoughts on Tim Floyd? 2nd worst record as an NBA coach, but not a bad college coach at USC with some decent guard talent"

if lowe had paid john wall to come here and we played in the pac10 I expect this thread would not be as active this year

^^^ as dumb as packboozie is about not ever wanting to call out players who aren't getting paid you guys are just as bad at defending a coach who has very little evidence that he is capable of being anything more than a poor man's paul hewitt



[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 7:38 PM. Reason : \/what success? the OLD SPICE CLASSIC? its not just 12th this year, its bottom 4 every year]

2/16/2010 7:12:32 PM

If our recruiting class next year was full of 3-star guys, I wouldn't be defending Lowe...I just know we had decent success with one 5-star guy (Hickson) and I'm willing to give him a chance to actually bring in the 5-star recruits he has coming in next year. Especially since he has coached us to a few good wins this year (Duke, FSU, Marquette) and had us in the game in most of our losses (only blowouts I remember were UNCx2, Maryland, UVA)

I don't like being in 12th place. But based on our talent, where should we be, 10th?

2/16/2010 7:21:42 PM

This thread makes my face hurt

2/16/2010 7:39:39 PM

Quote :

"what success? the OLD SPICE CLASSIC?"

i guess I was thinking of the year before, but we beat UNC, Duke, almost won the ACC tourney, won a few NIT games

Maybe that wasn't with 1 5-star guy, but it was with a veteran team

2/16/2010 7:42:42 PM

Quote :

"But it seems like you pro-Lowe people are unwilling to put any blame on Lowe."

You must have missed my earlier post. I'll repeat it for you.

Quote :

"I hope everybody knows that myself, and I think a lot of others that are arguing against the Lowe-haters aren't saying he's a great coach, nor are we saying that he hasn't made mistakes and continues to make mistakes. We're just arguing that all the team's woes don't fall on him, and it's still a bit early to throw him under the bus and declare that he's a terrible college coach."

2/16/2010 7:59:11 PM

^^with a good PG, not veteran team.

And he did have good success with Hickson, BC and BM just were little bitches, CF was inconsistent, and we didn't have anything on roster that resembled an ACC level PG... or even a SoCon level PG...

2/16/2010 7:59:58 PM

*veteran PG

^pretty much

[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 8:08 PM. Reason : .]

2/16/2010 8:07:51 PM

Quote :

"But it seems like you pro-Lowe people are unwilling to put any blame on Lowe."

I'm not sure why it seems like that. No one has said they won't put any blame on Lowe. Maybe you could find a quote or something.

2/16/2010 8:11:13 PM

Quote :

"and we didn't have anything on roster that resembled an ACC level PG... or even a SoCon level PG..."

True, and that's no knock on javi or degand... or marques even. there's a perfectly legit reason why we had to "settle" for these guys, and you can't argue that. One could actually argue that sid did a good job getting those 3 pg's so late in the recruiting process. Imagine if we only had degand. or marques. Just imagine it....

Mays is on sid, but i'm still confident he's going to be a good back-up in the upcoming years. and javi has developed into a solid, albeit very inconsistent point guard. (even though he hasn't really played a decent game since the duke.) and degand was actually playing well at the 2 for a while there this season. he's gone back to his old self as-of-late though. But also remember that farnold had to sit out the first half of that season, and then had his serious injury.

Since harrow committed so early, i don't think sid (& co) went hard for any elite guards this year (except wall, who was a guaranteed one-and-done).



pg aside, i'm pretty happy with the rest of Sid's recruiting, for the most part. well, last year's class was less than impressive. but you have to give it to sid for getting hickson and smith after getting into the recruiting game so late, and you can't blame him for hickson leaving early. i'm very happy with this year's class... and next year we're finally getting a back-court.

[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 8:47 PM. Reason : Bullet===Erios?!?!]

2/16/2010 8:22:05 PM

Quote :

"And he did have good success with Hickson"

?

Is last place really successful?

I mean you can say Hickson played well, but as a team we finished last.

2/16/2010 8:22:36 PM

I never said in that sentence that we did well as a team. Don't pick shit out, read for understand mang

2/16/2010 8:29:32 PM

Oh lawd... please don't let me go through college with the papajohns.com bowl as the ONLY postseason event our football or basketball team has gone to.

2/16/2010 8:33:25 PM

was you not in schoo when we had dat NIT?



poor grammar and shit intentional.

2/16/2010 8:35:52 PM

^^ im graduating in may

the pinnacles of my college sports fandom have been a game in reynolds against MARIST and that shitty stadium in birmingham

[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 8:40 PM. Reason : ]

2/16/2010 8:39:45 PM