Quote :

"so what are hte chances of a 10 yr old ben getting to the island while the O6 and sawyercrew are still Dharma?"

Well since it already happened, 100%, right? Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

3/4/2009 11:34:48 PM

^so you think that the they all stay in that timeframe forever?

b/c i doubt it

it seems like the clear direction that they will come back to the "present" eventually, somehow.

my question is, will they do it before young ben gets there?

i mean, i would guess they dont end up being casualties of his gas attack

3/4/2009 11:42:16 PM

Quote :

"well...according to faraday...if it happened then it always happened.. so juliet and sawyer and all those folks should recognize each other in the future after the plane crash, etc...but it didn't seem like it also, i wonder if locke and those folks from the new plane crash are in the same time frame as sawyer and them or if they are in a different time frame.. looks like next time they will have to choose between being loyal to sayid or blowing their cover"

man

3/4/2009 11:50:35 PM

Quote :

"BDub, you never fail to deliver!"

3/4/2009 11:51:28 PM

No, I don't think they'll be there forever because they weren't there the "first" time around.

But Charlotte remembering Daniel from when she was young kinda proves that they were all there the first time (pre-ben).

Again, assuming that that whole "can't change anything" is really true which I kinda think it is.

Unless Desmond shows up again and then all bets are off.

3/4/2009 11:51:53 PM

just b/c charlotte is there, doesnt mean ben is there, yet

what is their age diff?

charlotte looked about 3, do we know how old she was in the "present?" ben came to the island when he was 10 right?

ok so ben could be there right now, but not old enough to be recognize? they were there 3 years, surely they know everyone else in dharma and they know ben's name.

gad, now i'm worried the writers didnt think this through b/c ben has to be way older than charlotte right? the actor is 25 yrs older than the actress.

ugh now i'm confused

3/4/2009 11:56:29 PM

Yeah, they'll find a way to jump back to 2008 eventually

I'd have to think that's what Faraday was doing in the Orchid

3/4/2009 11:56:41 PM

Quote :

"just b/c charlotte is there, doesnt mean ben is there, yet"

Oh, yeah, I didn't mean to imply that he was there. In fact in never entered my mind. But now that you mention it, I suppose he probably is there, right? He's gotta have a few years on Charlotte. hmmm.

3/4/2009 11:58:17 PM

Maybe it wasn't really Charlotte?

shrug

3/4/2009 11:59:04 PM

i dont mind suspending disbelief but i dont like when they make mistakes, so hopefully i'm either missing something or they will explain something soon.

3/5/2009 12:00:29 AM

perhaps ben has already left dharma.

how long was he gone before the purge?


I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

3/5/2009 12:01:15 AM

Quote :

"Ben Linus was born on December 19 in the early 1960s, early in his mother Emily's third trimester. Roger and Emily Linus were hiking in a forest 32 miles outside Portland, Oregon (Official Lost Podcast/September 21, 2007) when she went into early labor. The birth went badly for Emily, and Roger carried her out to a roadway, flagging down Horace and Olivia, a couple passing by, for help. Ben lived, but Emily died. Emily's last words were a request that Roger name the child Benjamin"

So according to this, he's gotta be there somewhere, right?

Quote :

"perhaps ben has already left dharma. how long was he gone before the purge?"

Then why are they still alive?

3/5/2009 12:03:28 AM

^^he didnt leave before the purge, his mother/smoke monster and richard told him to be patient

[Edited on March 5, 2009 at 12:05 AM. Reason : ^charlotte born in 1979. damnit.]

3/5/2009 12:04:27 AM

Quote :

"perhaps ben has already left dharma. how long was he gone before the purge?"

His leaving was the purge

He met Richard in the jungle as a boy, Richard said he needed to patient, he gassed his dad as young man, the hostiles took over the joint

3/5/2009 12:05:24 AM

Quote :

"^charlotte born in 1979. damnit."

That was from Ben, though, right?

He also said she was born in England, she said she was born on the island.

3/5/2009 12:06:53 AM

so if that is really charlotte and she is at least 3, then it has to be at least 1982 which woul make ben 22 and old enough to be clearly recognizable

that said, the only kink in the armor so far is that charlotte's bday was provided by ben, so it could be wrong. but she would have to do some more time travel type stuff to be born earlier and still be relatively young in the "present"

[Edited on March 5, 2009 at 12:09 AM. Reason : ^right, so ben could have been lying about the year, but that just brings more quesitons,]

3/5/2009 12:08:28 AM

Quote :

"so if that is really charlotte and she is at least 3, then it has to be at least 1982"

It was 1974

3/5/2009 12:09:19 AM

They said it was '74 when they first jumped so that would make it '77 3 years later.



[Edited on March 5, 2009 at 12:10 AM. Reason : oh, but the girl wasn't 3 years later was it? I forgot what timeline they were on.]

3/5/2009 12:09:46 AM

Quote :

"but she would have to do some more time travel type stuff to be born earlier and still be relatively young in the "present""

Assuming that was Charlotte in 1974, that's the only theory that makes any sense at this point

[Edited on March 5, 2009 at 12:11 AM. Reason : ^ No, '74. Faraday saw her while sitting outside at the table, right before Richard walked up]

3/5/2009 12:10:39 AM

Also I wanna know what happened to Olivia who was shown to be Horrace's wife teaching ben as a child. Presumably before 77?

3/5/2009 12:11:51 AM

ok, well we'll go with that and wait for an answer than

more crazy questions with crazy answers i can handle


also, i prob missed it, but when did they say 74? was it explicitly said by a screen flash or a character or was it shown from other things?

[Edited on March 5, 2009 at 12:13 AM. Reason : good talks, i'm done for the night, thanks for making me late for work in the morning! ]

V gotcha, i remember now. thanks

[Edited on March 5, 2009 at 12:14 AM. Reason : thx]

3/5/2009 12:12:20 AM

Sawyer told Juliet it was 1974 when she was sitting by the sub

3/5/2009 12:13:36 AM

on the sub sawyer was all

"its 1974 whatever you want to go back to doesn't exist yet"

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

[Edited on March 5, 2009 at 12:14 AM. Reason : beat me to it]

3/5/2009 12:14:04 AM

Quote :

"listen mr 337 fucking posts you can't just walk into a 17 page thread and say "This show is too much, I cant take it seriously anymore. " without saying why you either give validation to your complaint or you get the fuck out and if i had my druthers you'd pick the latter"

Thats Mr. 338 posts to you, Mr. I am hot shit because I have wasted more time on TWW than you.

Validation for Complaint:

After 5 seasons, its getting old. Every event or dialogue in the series is filmed to be as dramatic as possible, regardless of the signifigance or importance of the event/dialogue. I know its supposed to be dramatic and suspenseful as a TV show, but its getting to be ridiculous. Not only is the constant use of overly-dramatic one liners accompanied by overly-dramatic orchestra music before every single transition scene or commercial break getting repetitive and predictable, it has become almost comical since the dramatic line often brings up a completely random topic, that will be used presently for a dramatic effect, but it will not be explained during the episode, or season for most cases. (added to the list of unexplained things that have been around since season 1... Magic numbers, smoke monster, ect)

Examples:

Witmore: They (oceanic Six) will be needed.
John Lock: For what?
Witmore: THE WAR
*Dramatic Orchestra Music*

(what war? wtf how will 6 random people help in a war?)

Ben: Jack, everyone on the island will die unless you can convince the others.
Jack: Convince them to do what?
Ben: GO BACK TO THE ISLAND
*Dramatic Orchestra Music*

(Still not explained, how the presence of the oceanic 6 affects the well being of the rest of the survivors, yet its the basis for the plot of several episodes)

Add all of the above with constant changes in time, flashbacks, flashforwards, and the classic "3 years later" 100 times in every episode, and I can see why my friends who are not Lost-addicts laugh at us whenever they walk in and watch 10 minutes of an episode. I mean it is ridiculous... A guy falls in a well, has the ghost give him instructions, he spins a wheel, theres a bunch of light, and he teleports to the desert, then a character from the past helps him, and says to prepare for the war, dramatic orchestra music plays. Everyone is like "Plz to explain wtf is happening" and Im all like "IDK" and their all like "Why do you watch it? This is stupid" and Im like "IDK".

3/5/2009 12:35:58 AM

lol

you let your friends pick on you for your tastes in television

3/5/2009 12:46:45 AM

i agree with JJC.

i'm going to stop watching unless they explain all the loose ends next episode

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

3/5/2009 12:48:30 AM

sure you will

3/5/2009 12:50:25 AM

"my friends who are not Lost-addicts laugh at us whenever they walk in and watch 10 minutes of an episode"

me?!?!

TIME TRAVELLLLL

3/5/2009 12:55:26 AM

just finished the episode, thought it was awesome, and Sawyer is the fucking man.

i thought i could make dates and shit work out involving Ben, but i just can't. from what i can find, we don't know exact dates, but he was born in the early 60's, then "around 10 years later" came to the island. so even if he was born in 63, and came when he was 13, that would be in 1976 and therefore in the timespan that we know Sawyer and them are there, and being head of security, he would know Ben Linus.

also we know Horrace was married to Oliva when Ben was born (early 60's), and Olivia was Ben's teacher when he came to the island ~10 years later. But in 1977 Horrace just had a baby with this other chick, and has longer hair than he did in the Ep where Ben arrives on the island.

this shit does seem very whack, but i still have faith that they have some crazy explaination for this shit and it will work out (despite what some people say, it is evident to me that the creators have had a good idea what what they were doing and where it was going for quite some time).

Quote :

"(Still not explained, how the presence of the oceanic 6 affects the well being of the rest of the survivors, yet its the basis for the plot of several episodes)"

well we haven't seen that them coming back will affect their well being, but the fact that Locke went back to get them saved all their lives by putting the wheel back on its axis.

3/5/2009 12:55:32 AM

why are we playing this game

3/5/2009 12:57:17 AM

BEN WAS A TWEEN. I DOUBT HE WAS RUNNING SHIT AND MAKING A NAME FOR HIMSELF

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

3/5/2009 1:34:28 AM

Quote :

"That was from Ben, though, right?"

ben got his intel from michael, so charlotte probably lied to him

Quote :

"Also I wanna know what happened to Olivia who was shown to be Horrace's wife teaching ben as a child."

i'm assuming she's dead, which is why he was drinking. perhaps ben is elsewhere at a station or something. he's definitely at the age that he should be on the island.

you guys keep assuming they are plot holes until they explicitly explain them away. i'm pretty sure they just want you to be making connections and having these mental timelines. of course they wouldn't have a huge continuity error like that. i imagine (as in actually imagine) them having one of those heroes timelines so they know where all characters are at any point in time.

3/5/2009 3:37:28 AM

^he was drinking because his new bitch still had her ex's necklace.

here is my current theory:

Ben comes to the island sometime around 71-72, some point soon afterwards Olivia dies, or leaves Horrace (thats why he grew his hair out isn't clean shaven anymore when we see him in 74, as he was when Ben arrived, he is distrought from her death/leaving),

sometime soon after that Ben meets long haired Richard out in the woods, at which point Richard realizes he now has an ally in DHARMA, which makes him clean up his act (cut his hair, shave, put on nice clothes, perhaps start the truce)

Ben is on the island during those 3 years that Sawyer and all them are there.

Sometime soon after the birth of his son, Horrace realizes that Amy really does love him, and cleans his shit up (cuts his hair, clean shaven, which is how we see him dead when Ben kills all the DHARMA people)

just a theory to try and put everythng we saw in the episode and know from the past together.

3/5/2009 4:00:37 AM

horace was building the cabin, we assume, in that vision locke had. he gave birth to a baby boy.

baby boy is jacob.

3/5/2009 4:03:11 AM

horace gave birth? anyway, jacob already existed by at least 1954.

3/5/2009 6:23:07 AM

i think the following is obvious... the 4-toed statue was built in honor of richard albert, the pharaoh king from outer space. the island is a portal that can be used to travel through time & space which is how richard got there 1000's of years ago and had his people build the time-wheel so they could control time-space on earth. something happened, the wheel was buried. this will all be revealed when richard takes his shoes off next season.

3/5/2009 8:13:06 AM

ARG! My DVR cut out with 20 mins left in the show! Could someone post a short recap of what happened after Juliet and Sawyer were talking on the docks and Juliet said she wanted to leave on the sub?

3/5/2009 8:20:16 AM

Going off memory -

Flashes back to three years later. Woman is having the baby again at this point and the intern doctor doesn't know what to do. Sawyer goes and gets Juliet who is now a mechanic. Mechanic Juliet doesn't want to help because she's afraid the baby will die like they always did before but she goes anyway. Sawyer and telepathic guy are waiting to find out about the baby and Juliet comes out tearful, it's a boy and both mother and son are healthy.

Sawyer goes back to Horace, Horace wakes up and they chat. Sawyer - "I've got some good news and bad news, what do you want first?" Tells Horace that he's a daddy but he missed the birth. Horace explains the fight, he was looking for some socks and all his were dirty, he went to get a pair of his wife's socks and found the ankh necklace that her dead husband wore. He said it had only been three years, was that really enough time for her to get over her husband?

Sawyer reflected about Kate without saying her by name and said that he can barely remember what she looks like. Oh by the way, he and Juliet are in some sort of relationship at this point. Next morning Sawyer gets a call that wakes him up, presumably Jin, telling him that he found Hurley, Jack and Kate. Sawyer freaks out and goes to meet them without telling Juliet who was in bed with him. They end the show with Sawyer seeing Hurley, then Jack, and then Kate.

I think that's it, anyone fill in the gaps I've left off.

3/5/2009 8:58:42 AM

Great, thanks for the updated. I was so angry last night when it cut off because it was the first time we got any indication of the four toed statue and I thought we might have gotten more insight. Your summary should hold me over until I get home and can watch the rest of the episode through abc.com.

On a sidenote, I'm glad that Sawyer called out Richard for wearing so much eyeliner.

[Edited on March 5, 2009 at 9:16 AM. Reason : ]

3/5/2009 9:09:24 AM

I guess the eyeliner totally makes sense though, if he's a pharoah.

bottom center (this rendering has 5 toes though i think) I think it's a hieracosphinx, or hawk.


I think the lion that was previously posted makes more sense though, with the four toes and all.

[Edited on March 5, 2009 at 9:50 AM. Reason : +]

3/5/2009 9:35:00 AM

Can't see the picture you've put in the thread, can you check your link?

3/5/2009 10:07:48 AM

The lion-headed god is named Sekhmet and

Quote :

"She also was seen as a special goddess for women, ruling over menstruation."

Also, if you saw the front, it'd have breasts. This picture shows Sekhmet without the "sun disc" over her head.

So I'm thinking that's enough relevance for me at the moment. Makes sense, anyway, moreso than the jackal head "god of death".

I wonder if they used that H-bomb to destroy the statue.



[Edited on March 5, 2009 at 10:33 AM. Reason : +]

3/5/2009 10:26:43 AM

so what other 4-toed statues that look like the scorpion king army can you guys find and post

3/5/2009 10:34:37 AM

Furthermore, Sekhmet was considered the guardian of the west, and if you look on the lost map, the four toed statue is dead center on the west coast of the island.

3/5/2009 10:37:28 AM

I was first thinking Maahes but now reading about Sekhmet being the protector of women during pregnancy and depictions showing her holding the Ankh, and her being the godess of war. Maahes is her son and basically the male counterpart to being the war god. Also interesting tidbit from wiki about Sekhmet, which is lol after the flaming arrows.

Quote :

"Sekhmet was believed to protect the pharaoh in battle, stalking the land, and destroying the pharaoh's enemies with arrows of fire."

[Edited on March 5, 2009 at 12:44 PM. Reason : asdf]

3/5/2009 12:15:15 PM

we'll see young ben in the next episode, so yeah, ben is on the island. i'm also excited because dr. pierre chang is guest starring as well, and i want to know more about this dude.

also, i'm willing to bet that sawyer is the one who orders the construction of the orchid, perhaps toward the end of this season, to facilitate their getting back to the future.

[Edited on March 5, 2009 at 12:47 PM. Reason : .]

3/5/2009 12:36:10 PM

^^yeah its probably her. i forgot she had an ahnk as well.

Quote :

"Sekhmet also was seen as a bringer of disease as well as the provider of cures to such ills.... In order to placate Sekhmet's wrath, her priestesses performed a ritual before a different statue of the goddess on each day of the year."

^you think dharma has built all this other shit and is lallygagging with the orchid? The orchid is like the only dharma station that we know of that does anything.


I'm Big Business and i approved this message.



[Edited on March 5, 2009 at 1:13 PM. Reason : lulz]

3/5/2009 12:54:19 PM

The ankh doesn't mean much, like the "sundial" over their heads. From what I read this morning, just about any god can be portrayed holding an ankh in one or both hands. I'm all for it being Sekhmet, but the arms and short skirt just seem very male. I did read that she had a son, as stated above. Who knows though. I really don't see it being any sort of jackal or pointy eared beast, as you would most likely see the tall ears from the back, and you don't.

3/5/2009 1:07:06 PM

then what are those pointy things on the top left and right of its head right about where the ears should be?

go to the last page for a good picture

3/5/2009 1:09:31 PM

They are ears. But they are short and stubby. If you google some egyptian jackal statues, which some people online are saying it is, you'll see how high the ears point, maybe 3 times high as what the statue on Lost shows.

3/5/2009 1:13:11 PM