ok thats fucking horseshit. how is it there can be ties in other sports but not gymnastics, and then they use a computer to ambiguously determine who was better? whats the point of the fucking judges then?

8/18/2008 11:12:53 PM

Nastia rushed that routine, anyway. Shouldn't have gotten near that 16.9 she got earlier, and thats what happened.


It's kind of gay that they can't even explain what the tie breaking formula is.

8/18/2008 11:15:31 PM

So WTF is up with this tiebreaker?

8/18/2008 11:19:37 PM

does the 16 yr old rule not apply here? They announced the last Chinese gymnast(Yang) as 15

8/18/2008 11:20:48 PM

They have to turn 16 by the end of the year

8/18/2008 11:21:38 PM

Quote :

"BEIJING -- Nastia Liukin tied for firfst but got second in an incredibly convoluted scoring mess in the women's uneven bars competition Monday at the 2008 Beijing Olympics. It seemed she was robbed, China's He Kexin getting the gold, Liukin left with silver. China's Yang Yilin got the bronze, the bars results adding to the host nation's sensational gymnastics performance at these Games -- the great haul of China. Was Liukin robbed? No, at least not mathematically. But that didn't do anything to lessen the sting of getting the exact same score, 16.725, but getting silver instead of gold. "It's nothing I can control," Liukin said. "It's all up to the judges. "I'm definitely a little upset. You know, I was hoping I could get another gold," to go with the individual all-around gold she won last Friday. She also won bronze in the floor exercise and a team silver. She and Shawn Johnson, who has three silvers, compete Tuesday night on the beam -- their final event. "... You know," Liukin said, "a fourth Olympic medal -- I have to be happy." Steve Penny, the president of USA Gymnastics, said the Americans would not file a protest. "We agree with it," he said. "It's done. We're moving on." Martha Karolyi, the U.S. women's head coach at these Games, would say only, "I'm not saying anything." Her husband of 43 years, Bela Karolyi, the legendary gymnastics coach who at these Games is also serving as an adviser to NBC, was hardly so reticent. "That makes no sense," he said, adding, "They're saying they improved the scoring system. Look at this." Gymnastics' new code of points went into effect after judging controversies rocked the Athens 2004 Games. The new code was ratified in late 2005 and was first implemented in 2006. A complete score is now made up of two parts, A and B. The first, the A score, or the start value, is an assigned degree of difficulty.I n this instance, both He and Liukin had the same start value, 7.7. The second part of a score, the B score, is an execution score. Six judges vote. The high and the low are tossed per the rules. Photos * EF: Uneven Bars EF: Uneven Bars Gallery from the dramatic uneven bars final. * Liukin: Beijing * Nastia Liukin: through the years Related Stories * Working the numbers That leaves four scores. Those four are averaged. That average becomes the B score. Add the A and B together and you get a complete score. In this instance, both He and Liukin got 16.725. Thus: onto tiebreakers. The first tiebreak is the B score. Here both got the same B score, 9.025. The next tiebreak: the judges drop the next highest deduction. That obviously leaves three judges' scores instead of four -- or to be precise, the marks those three judges gave for deductions. Here, the average of those three judges' deductions for He: .933. For Liukin: .966. Liukin had a greater deduction. Thus she was second. Another way of getting to that math: Take the B scores of the three judges from that second tie-break, add them together and divide by three. The math for He: 9.1, 9.1, 9.0. That equals 27.2. Divide that by three, and that equals 9.066, the sixes stretching out to infinity. For Liukin: 9.1, 9.0, 9.0. That equals 27.1. Divide that by three and it's 9.0333, the threes going out forever. Thus she was second. Which, all the same, didn't make it any easier. Because even if the math is right, it's logically still just naturally tough to get. "Seeing the exact same score and 'second' next to my name," Liukin said, "made it a little bit harder.""

http://www.nbcolympics.com/gymnastics/news/newsid=230935.html#tough+math

[Edited on August 18, 2008 at 11:24 PM. Reason : ]

8/18/2008 11:23:30 PM

ha, australian judge fucked nastia over

8/18/2008 11:24:52 PM

GAY

8/18/2008 11:25:20 PM

that is a fucking busted up tiebreaker system

8/18/2008 11:26:01 PM

^^^^^they can be 15 if their bday is in the same year of the olympics




I want to punch that damn chinese girl

her face just begs to be punched


and

bela comes with teh real

[Edited on August 18, 2008 at 11:28 PM. Reason : slow]

8/18/2008 11:27:16 PM

the triathlon is coming down to the last 20 mins! it's gonna be clooooose! go simon, go simon!

8/18/2008 11:28:11 PM

fuck china

8/18/2008 11:30:11 PM

The tiebreaking procedure is arbitrary.

For judging, they should try a system where the judges should come to one score by consensus rather than average. That way, they can talk it out and make sure everyone is on same page.

8/18/2008 11:32:12 PM

Bela is my new hero

8/18/2008 11:32:54 PM

throw your medal at the chinese official nastia

8/18/2008 11:34:15 PM

one of the announcers explained the tie-breaker procedure. it's not exactly as opaque as they keep making it out to be..... it may not be right or fair, but it's not difficult to understand. they take the 4 remaining scores (after throwing out the highest and lowest at the beginning), then delete the lowest score for each competitor then average them. Not that fucking difficult, and doesn't require some "strange computer algorithm" to calculate

8/18/2008 11:35:47 PM

So why did they have to wait until everyone was finished before they could tell for sure who won?

If it's that simple, shouldn't they have known immediately?

8/18/2008 11:38:24 PM

It's stupid that they ended having co-medal winners. I don't know when they stopped it, but I do know that it was around at least during the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta. Fuck China and their little cross eyed 14 year old.

8/18/2008 11:40:49 PM

What an asshole coach(the US pole-vaulting coach)

[Edited on August 18, 2008 at 11:45 PM. Reason : s]

8/18/2008 11:45:02 PM

Haha that coach to the female pole vaulter was a little bit of a dick, which is ok when you are dealing with guys, but females are a little different emotionally.

8/18/2008 11:45:54 PM

^^^^You are getting the language confused. It's simple, but obscure and arbitrary. A tiebreaking procedure should be simple, but it should also make sense.

[Edited on August 18, 2008 at 11:47 PM. Reason : .]

8/18/2008 11:46:56 PM

holy hell -- the triathlon went down to wire! incredible!!!1one

8/18/2008 11:52:42 PM

That coach was like:



^^ So, you're saying that they delete the lowest score for EVERY competitor?

So when they do the tiebreaker a competitor who wasn't even tied for the top score could win?

8/18/2008 11:53:59 PM

Quote :

"So why did they have to wait until everyone was finished before they could tell for sure who won?"

i don't think we had to. They immediately put Nastia up in 2nd, demonstrated whey she said to her dad "why am i listed second?" as soon as the scores went up. I think it was mostly the announcers who where taking so long to figure out why she was 2nd.


and am i missing something? what channel is the tri on?

8/18/2008 11:58:10 PM

what the fuck is that american beast that is in the medal ceremony right now on NBC? What did she win?

She got a gold, btw

8/18/2008 11:59:58 PM

i've been watching triathlon on the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Company)

8/19/2008 12:00:42 AM

Quote :

"^^ So, you're saying that they delete the lowest score for EVERY competitor?"

yes, that's pretty standard for any subjective sport - gymnastics, diving, etc. They drop the highest and lowest scores for each competitor, just to get rid of any outliers i think, or any obviously incompetent scores.

Quote :

"So when they do the tiebreaker a competitor who wasn't even tied for the top score could win?"

..... no
if two competitors are tied, and they drop the lowest score for each competitor, then the scores can only go up.

Furthermore, i think the dropping-the-lowest-score is only to break the tie, not to determine the final score. That way, you will differentiate the two tied competitors, but it won't effect any other rankings

8/19/2008 12:01:26 AM

Quote :

"what the fuck is that american beast that is in the medal ceremony right now on NBC? What did she win?"

discus

8/19/2008 12:01:57 AM

ah, that explains it

8/19/2008 12:05:42 AM

I think the biggest scandal is you have countries that wouldn't know a gymnastics routine from a hole in the ground doing the judging.

8/19/2008 12:11:38 AM

This nigerian playing the chinese-american in ping pong won the Cary Cup.

8/19/2008 12:49:09 AM

the usa women in beach volleyball have some sexy unis. love the bottoms with the see through portions

8/19/2008 1:02:32 AM

too bad the hot pair of americans are out and only may and walsh are left

[Edited on August 19, 2008 at 1:14 AM. Reason : also, all hot countries eliminated]

8/19/2008 1:13:50 AM

Quote :

"For judging, they should try a system where the judges should come to one score by consensus rather than average. That way, they can talk it out and make sure everyone is on same page."

that would take forever

8/19/2008 5:42:10 AM

^I had that quote Ctrl+c'ed the entire time I was catching up on the thread just to say that. Maybe they could have two separate panels of judges and take the average? The only down side being that China would have to pay off twice as many judges

8/19/2008 7:52:37 AM

the tiebreaker system is just stupid. no it is not confusing or hard to understand mathematically. the problem is that it doesnt make sense. The entire reason you have a panel of judges is so that one judge doesnt have as much of am impact! And yet the tiebreaker is to narrow the scores down to the point where a single judge has MORE of an impact? that makes no sense.

8/19/2008 7:56:25 AM

^^^ You clearly haven't seen that 19 yo Chinese player from the team that beat the other US team the other night. She was stunning.

8/19/2008 9:14:53 AM

Quote :

"the tiebreaker system is just stupid. no it is not confusing or hard to understand mathematically."

Your math is too bad. did you get an F or something?

8/19/2008 9:32:46 AM

what? math is my thing haha. maybe you got an F in reading comprehension?

Quote :

"the tiebreaker system is just stupid. no it is not confusing or hard to understand mathematically"

my point is that it has nothing to do with being a confusing procedure (as ive heard some people say when talking about last night), its just that the procedure itself does not have sound logic behind it.

[Edited on August 19, 2008 at 9:41 AM. Reason : ]

8/19/2008 9:34:28 AM

lol

You did not get the meaning of the score system. It is to get rid of the most underestimated score instead of killing other "reasonable" scores from the judges. That is why I quote ur words.

Don't say math is only ++ and --.

[Edited on August 19, 2008 at 9:42 AM. Reason : :]]

8/19/2008 9:41:11 AM

hahah wtf dude. not to be mean but, do you speak english as a second language?

I UNDERSTAND THE "MEANING OF THE SCORE SYSTEM"

IT IS EASY

A 10 YEAR OLD COULD UNDERSTAND THE MATH BEHIND IT.

MY POINT IS THAT IT IS A *STUPID* SYSTEM, IT IS NOT CONFUSING.

gd how do you communicate on a daily basis?

I normally never yell at people on here but wtf dude, you're either trolling or have serious reading comprehension problems. "I FEEL LIKE IM TAKING CRAZY PILLS!"

[Edited on August 19, 2008 at 9:48 AM. Reason : ]

8/19/2008 9:45:08 AM

man, you just say it is a *STUPID* system. I agree there are some stupid points of it. But your reason is funny, when you keep on deleting the scores 1 by 1, of course the weight for each existing one goes up. This is not vote, give us more reasons.

1st, the new system "leads" the athletes to try harder routine with high A score which may bring injury.
2nd, the B score is not subjective. It counts down from 10 highly depends on the judges. Shawn did a more difficult part without mistake but got a much lower score than Liukin, that revealed the BAD!

8/19/2008 10:02:49 AM

Quote :

"the B score is not subjective. It counts down from 10 highly depends on the judges."

?

maybe i'm misunderstanding you, but do you know what subjective means?

8/19/2008 10:22:37 AM

typo... objective.

8/19/2008 10:47:20 AM

lmao at chinese baseball team.......what a buncha bitches

8/19/2008 10:54:28 AM

I'd still like to know why tennis was so under-aired

they air fucking trampoline, badminton, and that interminably horrible women's beach volleyball all the time

but they barely covered any of the tennis matches

8/19/2008 2:01:23 PM

It was on USA faggot.

8/19/2008 2:07:01 PM

yeah, faggot

8/19/2008 2:10:35 PM

well maybe I would have known that if my olympics tennis thread hadn't gotten locked

we could have actually discussed the topic

8/19/2008 2:14:13 PM

You also would have known had you done an elementary google search

8/19/2008 2:25:09 PM