i think it should be duly noted that, while the founders expressed belief that some of them were deists (this does not necessarily mean christian, but that's moot), they DID explicitly set the government up to have a clear and distinct separation of church and state, freedom OF religion, and freedom FROM religion

11/13/2007 1:04:36 PM

Quote :

""Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the `criminal justice system,' I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal," Paul said."

Paul is referring to the broad net cast by the justice system, and that it's inefficiences are the real reason blacks comprise such an abnormally high proportion of criminals in the DC area. I think this poition is both accurate and non-racist.

Quote :

"This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people’s allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before their faith in the state. "

This is a poor choice of words. I disagree with the position, but agree with the sentiment. My disagreement comes from his use of the word "hate." The Left does not "hate" anything. Then again, the Right does not "hate" anything either. They do however have interests that conflict with other groups.

It drives me a wall to hear that the left hates religion. It's blatant ignorance in my opinion. I'll elaborate on why later when I have time... I'm interested to hear whether you all agree...

11/13/2007 3:11:18 PM

So I did a *little* followup on this 1996 Journal article. Other than the journal being in Ron Paul's name, there's no evidence he actually WROTE it, and he denied it being his own writing back in 2001.

In other words, some shitheads digging up any dirt they can on one of the few candidates without any real dirt to dig up.

Worst part is, at its worst the article is poorly worded. It's statistically accurate, and points even more toward the problems with social welfare systems and the inequalities in our judicial system nationwide.

11/13/2007 8:24:02 PM

I pray every night Ron Paul can make a historic rally and sweep the presidency. All the other douchenozzles running for presidency right now make me want to jump off a cliff. I could possibly see myself voting for Guliani if he was not such hawkish which is my main concern about him.

11/13/2007 8:30:02 PM

Quote :

"So I did a *little* followup on this 1996 Journal article. Other than the journal being in Ron Paul's name, there's no evidence he actually WROTE it, and he denied it being his own writing back in 2001. In other words, some shitheads digging up any dirt they can on one of the few candidates without any real dirt to dig up."

It's still something with his name attached to it. It's perfectly legitimate to question him about it.

11/13/2007 10:27:19 PM

Quote :

"And since when was being small government make one a RINO? If anyone's a RINO, it's President Bush for spending with wreckless abandon and being a don't-tax-and-still-spend fiscal liberal that believes government will solve all problems."

Flyin Ryan et al

You shouldn't have gotten yourself all bent out of shape over my "RINO" post. I simply meant that Paul is more of a libertarian than anything.

In a number of his positions, Paul's where Republicans should be--BUT HE JUST CAN'T WIN!!!1 (And he's too whiny and wimpy acting--but that's a whole other conversation.) In addition, I do think it's fair and even necessary to criticize Bush on his "wreckless" (sic) spending--he has been a big spender and on that we can agree.

11/13/2007 10:47:16 PM

11/13/2007 10:53:23 PM

Quote :

"It's still something with his name attached to it. It's perfectly legitimate to question him about it."

I completely agree, but an internet source that can't even produce the original article and doesn't even attempt to verify its authenticity or author generally makes it less than legitimate.

11/14/2007 3:23:04 AM

From everything I'm seeing online about that letter, not only did he not write it, but the guy who did was fired.

That should pretty much settle the issue. I guess you could question not having the proper screening/restraints such that it even happened at all...but to me it's pretty much a non-issue.

11/14/2007 9:22:47 AM

Quote :

"BUT HE JUST CAN'T WIN!!!"

Ron Paul has already won.

He's reintroducing Americans with their love for liberty, free markets and smaller gov't. At this moment, he is inspiring a whole new generation of future classic liberals. God Bless Him.

11/14/2007 10:26:04 AM

^

11/14/2007 12:47:00 PM

^^I'm a bit more greedy than that.

11/14/2007 12:50:12 PM

^^^ Um. . .yeah, but Paul is allegedly not running for some abstract concept of "won." He is running for president--and that office he cannot and will not win. Sorry--and I'm not trying to be shitty about it.

11/15/2007 1:08:05 AM

Quote :

"He's reintroducing Americans with their love for liberty, free markets and smaller gov't."

If you did more research you would see how these ideas are fundamentally opposed to each other.

11/15/2007 1:12:17 AM

Quote :

"At this moment, he is inspiring a whole new generation of future classic liberals."

Strictly following the constitution = classically liberal?

I must not have gotten the memo.

11/15/2007 1:32:04 AM

I've stopped supporting Ron Paul because all of his supporters are fucking idiots.

11/15/2007 8:23:24 AM

^And which candidates' supporters, pray tell, are not, in your sophisticated opinion?

11/15/2007 9:11:43 AM

I never claimed that any of them are competent.

Paul's supporters are just a special breed of 'stick up their ass'

11/15/2007 9:18:27 AM

I signed up to help Rudy Giuliani campaign, begrudgingly, because I knew he would be the best of the worst.

Until now.

I am officially on the Ron Paul bandwagon and his no nonsense voting record is a fresh change. He has never voted for a tax increase nor has he ever voted for an unbalanced budget in his time in office. This is what America needs.

RON PAUL HAS ANOTHER SUPPORTER

11/15/2007 10:30:59 AM

^^
I checked... no sticks.

But I'll grant that many Paul supporters are pretty rabid.

Quote :

"you would see how these ideas are fundamentally opposed to each other"

That's a pretty bizarre statement. Perhaps you could eleborate?

Quote :

"but Paul is allegedly not running for some abstract concept of "won." "

It may not be as clear now. But take a look at the Goldwater campaign. He lost.. big time. But his campaign exposed many people to good conservative ideas.

One of Paul's beneficial effects is that he is, to a degree, shaming the republicans...exposing their hypocrisies.

[Edited on November 15, 2007 at 10:39 AM. Reason : .]

11/15/2007 10:39:26 AM

^ Absolutely, except I hope he isn't the next Goldwater (who, without Goldwater, Reagan probably would've never made it big... it was the speech at the GOP convention that sold Reagan on the country).

11/15/2007 10:41:09 AM

Quote :

"Paul's supporters are just a special breed of 'stick up their ass'"

maybe because they actually care, are competent, and passionate about Ron Paul and fixing our country.

[Edited on November 15, 2007 at 10:44 AM. Reason : ]

11/15/2007 10:43:50 AM

Seriously, guys.

The gold standard.

The gold standard.

11/16/2007 11:02:44 AM

Quote :

"maybe because they actually care, are competent, and passionate about Ron Paul and fixing our country. "

Or maybe it's the 'injecting Ron Paul in every conversation whether or not it's relevant at all' and the 'parroting stupid bullshit that they're not informed about thinking it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.'


i mean some of the ideas are great and all but i think many of his supporters are tools just like every one else's except they think they're different, just like everyone else.

11/16/2007 11:09:19 AM

Yeah, I gotta agree with that skankin monkey. There are a whole lot of tools in this thread, and around the internet who have latched onto Ron Paul as some kind of savior with all the answers.

I still hope he makes some noise in primary season. But lets get real; the inevitable backlash will sink this ship with a quickness. It's like when a bunch of internet dorks hyped up "Snakes on a Plane!" to the point where it couldn't possibly deliver. Of course it bombed, because there wasn't much to back up the hype and although internet dorks can be a loud and mobilizing group, they rarely actually venture out of their houses to go to the movies, or vote for that matter.

If the presidential race were an internet poll, Ron Paul would have a chance...

[Edited on November 16, 2007 at 11:22 AM. Reason : 2]

11/16/2007 11:20:44 AM

Quote :

"Or maybe it's the 'injecting Ron Paul in every conversation whether or not it's relevant at all' and the 'parroting stupid bullshit that they're not informed about thinking it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.' i mean some of the ideas are great and all but i think many of his supporters are tools just like every one else's except they think they're different, just like everyone else."

id take those kind of people over people parroting the other candidates anyday

For me personally..its just nice to see someone like him even getting this much attention.

11/16/2007 11:27:49 AM

Well, thank god for SkankinMonky and Prawn Star. Now we all know how ignorant we are for supporting Ron Paul.

Brb, slapping a Hillary Clinton 08 bumper sticker on my car.

11/16/2007 12:41:01 PM

~Ron Paul => Hillary

The sort of inference a Ron Paul supporter can really get behind.

(gold standard, janjaweed, kill your father)

11/16/2007 12:45:34 PM

signed the petition in the brickyard today, the new preacher guy was screaming about something behind them, i thought it was hilarious

got me a bumper sticker too :-D

11/16/2007 1:25:23 PM

Quote :

"Well, thank god for SkankinMonky and Prawn Star. Now we all know how ignorant we are for supporting Ron Paul."

Congratulations on proving my point.

Quote :

"i mean some of the ideas are great ... but ... many of his supporters are tools"

11/16/2007 3:28:44 PM

Quote :

"i mean some of the ideas are great and all but i think many of his supporters are tools just like every one else's except they think they're different, just like everyone else."

This could be said for every candidate for every office, ever. I fail to see the point.

11/16/2007 3:37:29 PM

Quote :

"Congratulations on proving my point."

You didn't prove anything. Just stop posting, you're bad at it.

11/17/2007 1:08:44 AM

check out this full page add that will be in USA Today. so awesome.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=37965

11/17/2007 10:24:25 AM

It didn't help that the volunteers at the gun show today were sketch.

11/18/2007 1:10:31 AM

I dont think Ive ever met a gun dealer I would invite over to dinner (or even into my house for that matter)

11/18/2007 1:40:43 AM

i'm just glad everyone is ready for a fresh new face in the white house

fresh new face of course meaning another old, white, rich, married protestant man

11/18/2007 1:46:58 AM

what cellar have you been living in the last year??? The top democrat candidates is a woman and a black guy.

The Republicans even have a Morman.

As far as rich goes you are right. Unfortunately with the modern world candidates need to have a nice sized cash base to support themselves with as much time needed to run for office and perform their duties.

[Edited on November 18, 2007 at 2:42 PM. Reason : l]

11/18/2007 2:41:06 PM

Mike Gravel's poor as shit. And McCain's going $3 mil in debt to keep his campaign going! Now THAT is a true American.

11/18/2007 2:54:58 PM

Quote :

"Seriously, guys. The gold standard. The gold standard."

Seriously, guys.

Legalized torture and invading Iran.

Legalized torture and invading Iran.


Given the choice I have, I'd MUCH rather vote for a presidential candidate who WONT get us in to deeper shit and will BEGIN to reverse the ridiculous shit we began back in the clinton era.

Any other Republican is going to continue down the road of the patriot act and is going to eventually invade/attack Iran.

I make no bones about it, Ron Paul isnt perfect. He has many ideals that cant be put in practice. But he is the BEST candidate out there for what he CAN do in office, as well as what his nomination would do to the party systems in America

11/18/2007 4:07:46 PM

^^^ this just in, this thread is about ron paul, not barack or hillary or mitt

^^ this thread is also not about gravel or mccain

11/18/2007 4:26:20 PM

The market is obviously dictating that some discussion of presidential candidates be allowed in a thread about a presidential candidate.

11/18/2007 4:38:43 PM

Quote :

"I dont think Ive ever met a gun dealer I would invite over to dinner (or even into my house for that matter)"

how many gun dealers do you know?

plenty of them are good dudes.

11/18/2007 4:54:15 PM

Quote :

"Seriously, guys. Legalized torture and invading Iran. Legalized torture and invading Iran. Given the choice I have, I'd MUCH rather vote for a presidential candidate who WONT get us in to deeper shit and will BEGIN to reverse the ridiculous shit we began back in the clinton era. Any other Republican is going to continue down the road of the patriot act and is going to eventually invade/attack Iran. I make no bones about it, Ron Paul isnt perfect. He has many ideals that cant be put in practice. But he is the BEST candidate out there for what he CAN do in office, as well as what his nomination would do to the party systems in America"

You're talking about putting a guy in office who would, if he got his way, slaughter our economy.

11/18/2007 5:06:28 PM

how would he slaughter our economy?

11/18/2007 5:31:47 PM

^^As opposed to candidates who, if put in office, WILL CONTINUE to slaughter our economy?

Sorry McDanger, but the alternative is worse. And the REALITY is, Ron Paul's ideals will never be put into action, because he can never garner the congressional support required.

What he WOULD do is put a stranglehold on NEW spending legislation, as well as bringing home our troops and opening trade with the world. These two things, that are really what he would do, will have a profoundly positive effect on the economy.

[Edited on November 18, 2007 at 5:36 PM. Reason : .]

11/18/2007 5:35:49 PM

Forget it. If Ron Paul does ever start to look like he's going to win the election, some government agent will just quietly take him out.

If you go against the machine then someone will stop you. That's the way politics have worked since civilization started.

11/18/2007 5:40:53 PM

Quote :

"You're talking about putting a guy in office who would, if he got his way, slaughter our economy."

Kinda like how if Kerry would be in office we would all be speaking arabic now b.c Kerry would bend over and let AJ from Iran stick it in his ass. Not that I like Kerry but I get tired of the scaremongering of pro-Bush cronies who always claim gloom and doom if the other candidate wins.

11/18/2007 5:43:40 PM

Quote :

"Given the choice I have, I'd MUCH rather vote for a presidential candidate who WONT get us in to deeper shit and will BEGIN to reverse the ridiculous shit we began back in the clinton era."

What, specifically, are you referring to that began in the Clinton era?

11/18/2007 5:58:13 PM

I'm not really of the opinion that we should stick a guy in office and hope that the 2-3 things we actually agree with are the only things to pass.

11/18/2007 5:59:38 PM

^now you are just trolling.

Because you are presenting this with the assumption that any alternative is better. When, in fact, any alternative candidate is significantly worse. And the reality is, IF there were some way to transition to an asset standard, we would be much better off for it, for MANY reasons. If you want to debate the differences in federal banking systems though, lets move it to a new thread.

as for ^^ I was referring to open conflict in the middle east. It's one thing to keep arming the whole region through covert alliances and politically funded conflicts. It's another to open the doors to open US military deployment. I don't really fault Clinton for doing it, it was for the right reasons and was executed properly. Unfortunately this administration used that as part of the web of lies to get our military back in the region fighting.

11/18/2007 7:17:06 PM