Quote :

"And ^, what? It's not "intel only", its that you can't cross architectures during and upgrade (IE upgrade from an Intel to an AMD box, or vice versa). "

i think he means the Tiger/Leopard > Snow Leopard upgrade chart, which was obviously a joke, failed to mention that Snow Leopard will be the first Intel-only version of OS X.

8/10/2009 7:34:22 PM

I know it was a joke, but you clearly oversimplified and made Windows seem overly complex. And yes, my comment was about Snow Leopard.

Not sure why Microsoft still ships 32-bit.

Windows 7 decisions:
1) 32-bit or 64-bit
2) Home Premium, Professional, Ultimate

It's that easy.

Fact is I like that Windows gives options, and I like that Windows 7 can be installed on older systems (while maintaining the similar footprint as Snow Leopard which dropped PowerPC support... though I'm glad they did)

[Edited on August 10, 2009 at 8:03 PM. Reason : .]

8/10/2009 8:00:53 PM

Upgrade choices for Windows 7:
32-bit Home, 32-bit Premium, 32-bit Professional, 32-bit Ultimate, 64-bit Home, 64-bit Premium, 64-bit Professional, 64-bit Ultimate

Upgrade choices for Snow Leopard:
Snow Leopard

I know which one is overly complex. I've got PC box and a Macbook Pro laptop. Windows 7 and Snow Leopard are both on the way, and I know which one will get the upgrade at $30 compared to over 3 times that amount. To tell the truth, I'd upgrade to W7 if it were $30 for me too without any qualms. Microsoft's pricing scheme is garbage, and so is selling neutered OS's for the price of building your own PC.

8/10/2009 8:13:41 PM

There's not a 64-bit home basic.

Also:

Quote :

"Windows 7 Home Basic Windows 7 Home Basic will be available in emerging markets such as Brazil, People's Republic of China, India, Indonesia, Mexico, Pakistan, the Philippines, and Thailand.[12] It will not be available in countries such as Australia, Canada, France, Germany, The Netherlands, United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, New Zealand, the United States, and the United Kingdom.[12] Some Aero options are excluded along with several new features.[12] "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7_editions

[Edited on August 10, 2009 at 8:28 PM. Reason : .]

8/10/2009 8:27:25 PM

Quote :

"Microsoft's pricing scheme is garbage, and so is selling neutered OS's for the price of building your own PC"

market segmentations exist for a reason. and it's not just to charge more to people who will pay it. my grandma doesn't need BitLocker support or domain management, so why should she pay for it. let the enterprise customers who ARE going to use it pay for that development cost

[Edited on August 10, 2009 at 8:31 PM. Reason : but hey i'm sure you took BUS 101 too]

8/10/2009 8:30:49 PM

Quote :

"It's that easy. Fact is I like that Windows gives options,"

the illusion of choice, you mean.....
I mean, really - you need choices? How about Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit for everyone, for the price of Home (or hell, for the Student price). Now, give me a legitimate reason why you would need something else (and I don't care about netbooks or Atom processors or whatever)

8/10/2009 8:37:26 PM

Quote :

"my grandma doesn't need BitLocker support or domain management, so why should she pay for it"

hahahahahahaha
you act like those things aren't already built or included in the OS codebase. Here's a hint - they don't start with Windows Home, then add on a bunch of shit at additional cost. They include all the features in the overall cost of development of the new OS, then just strip out or block features that are already created for the crippled versions

8/10/2009 8:39:59 PM

hahahaha, oh yea, illusion, hahaha... did you not read the the post before yours?

Quote :

"my grandma doesn't need BitLocker support or domain management, so why should she pay for it"

you again didn't READ THE POST... who cares if they take the feature out, if you pay less, it's a WIN-WIN

like i said, 2 choices to make, it's that simple.

Snow Leopard is not a business OS, so it's quite obvious why they don't have multiple versions... On the other hand Windows covers more bases (POS, Netbooks, Old PCs, New PCs, Home PCs, Business PCs, Servers...) with 2 choices.

GTFO if you are going to bring this crap into this thread, it's anti-Microsoft propaganda is what it is.

In some cases giving people features they DO NOT NEED can be even more confusing for the customer than to tailor the OS to the individual or business.

Snow Leopard is only simple and easy because it's only target market is home users with a super niche market in the design industry.

What's even more disturbing is that you try to compare an OS designed for proprietary hardware to an OS that is implemented in tons of different architectures.

[Edited on August 10, 2009 at 8:48 PM. Reason : .]

8/10/2009 8:40:50 PM

That's going to depend on your business. My point, at any rate, is that you're getting way overcharged with Windows 7, especially if you want all the features of the same OS. Even at full retail price, you could buy Leopard + Snow Leopard for the price of one Ultimate version of Windows.

As for the number of choices, and I'm looking at that wiki:
Starter - 32
Home Basic - 32
Home Premium - 32, 64
Professional - 32, 64
Enterprise - 32, 64
Ultimate - 32, 64

There may be 2 decisions, but there are 10 choices.

Now for Snow Leopard.
Do I want Snow Leopard?
One decision. One choice.

Quote :

"Snow Leopard is only simple and easy because it's only target market is home users with a super niche market in the design industry."

That's just an ignorant statement. Both OS's serve their purpose and can be extremely useful. The OS bashing is for an entirely different discussion.

[Edited on August 10, 2009 at 8:56 PM. Reason : ]

8/10/2009 8:53:35 PM

this is the stupidest fucking argument i've ever seen.

8/10/2009 9:01:24 PM

just wait till solinari, fail boat and shaggy show up

you ain't seen shit

8/10/2009 9:02:40 PM

meh..

i want to look up what's new with media center, always thought it had potential to be pretty awesome

[Edited on August 10, 2009 at 9:06 PM. Reason : ]

8/10/2009 9:04:19 PM

win7 MC is EXCELLENT

8/10/2009 9:07:43 PM

agreed

8/10/2009 9:10:37 PM

Quote :

"you act like those things aren't already built or included in the OS codebase. Here's a hint - they don't start with Windows Home, then add on a bunch of shit at additional cost. They include all the features in the overall cost of development of the new OS, then just strip out or block features that are already created for the crippled versions"

There are several flaws in your thinking.

1) The home versions of Windows (XP, Vista and 7) don't have domain support. This is a HUGE difference in testing, security, complexity, configuration and updating. Removing that from a consumer OS is not "crippling" in any way shape or form. That is, far and away, the largest difference in the SKUs.

2) Bitlocker, remote desktop and several other of the features only found in the higher SKUs are reliant on specific hardware to work properly. The TPM hardware required for full bitlocker is only found on workstations, which makes it absolutely useless in a consumer OS. Remote desktop is a HUGE security vulnerability for the average consumer, and requires knowledge of port forwarding to work, a HUGE support burden on OEMs, and a feature that the majority of consumer have no use for anyway.

OSX is a single platform, hardware bound, consumer OS. 1 version works.

Windows is a multi-platform, hardware independent, consumer/business/enterprise OS. 1 version doesn't make any sense.

8/10/2009 9:36:09 PM

And all you tards seem to miss the point.

80%+ of the sales of Windows come from OEM PC's. (I'm sure this is similar for Apple)

As a retail consumer, you will never have to worry about 32/64 bit version, at most you will be deciding between Home Premium, Professional or Ultimate.

Three choices. That's it. Not 10.

For those of us who build our own computers, it's not even a half second of thought as to which retail version to buy. Jesus you guys get caught up in the blog-o-hype so easily, it's like I'm watching a game of lemmings transpire right in front of me.

8/10/2009 9:42:10 PM

Quote :

"As for the number of choices, and I'm looking at that wiki:"

Yeah but you won't be able to go in to best buy and purchase starter, home basic, or enterprise, afaik.

8/10/2009 10:13:37 PM

Quote :

"this is the stupidest fucking argument i've ever seen."

agreed.

Quote :

"OSX is a single platform, hardware bound, consumer OS. 1 version works."

OS X isn't a consumer OS. it's BSD, for god's sake. have you seen the AD integration in snow leopard? or, alternatively, get OS X server and run a netinfo server.

yes, it doesn't have a huge presence in the enterprise, but it's definitely not geared only towards consumers.

Quote :

"For those of us who build our own computers, it's not even a half second of thought as to which retail version to buy."

that's what MSDN and technet subscriptions are good for.

Quote :

"Yeah but you won't be able to go in to best buy and purchase starter, home basic, or enterprise, afaik."

enterprise is only available to people with VLKs and/or SA agreements. ultimate does everything enterprise does.

8/10/2009 11:32:31 PM

wait wait wait

there's an OSX server?

how the fuck is my grandmother supposed to choose between regular and server?

8/10/2009 11:43:18 PM

i think everyone of us is well aware of what Apple has to offer.

can we just get off Snow Leopard, it's completely irrelevant to Windows 7 discussion.

[Edited on August 11, 2009 at 12:40 AM. Reason : ,]

8/11/2009 12:38:52 AM

^i was trying to figure out why it was brought up in the first place but i can't stand idly by while my favorite OS gets attacked, haha

8/11/2009 12:43:01 AM

i'm a big fan of horse fucker but thats just mee...


honestly thought i'm getting a new pc shortly (i7 920 and 9 gigs of ddr3) is windows 7 good bad or meh??

8/11/2009 1:08:42 AM

I hit my first hiccups with 7mc today. I'm using a Sony bdrom drive, and it seems to be a total piece of shit. Been using dl dvdrw's to move my content because it's faster than the wireless, but the drive is super picky about media and slooooowww as fuck reading burned discs. So 7mc has a nice auto import feature, but it looks like it's running on the main thread, so the whole ui slows to a crawl while it's importing the content from disc (lasted about 15min for a 8gb disc).

Also merging all the digital and analog channels for comcast manually was a bitch, took a solid two hours and the interface is not at all condusive to bulk editing.

On the good side, everything works, and after the first run of any new section it is zippy as hell. Really suprising sometimes how responsive the UI is after years of Tivo and Comcast/TWC DVD boxes. Can't wait to put in the cable card tuner.

One other nit, we currently have a Sharp 46" LCD tv, which supports pixel matched output, but the image leaves about a 2 inch border all the way around, like the opposite of overscan. Any ideas what the hell is going on here?

8/11/2009 4:36:32 AM

Quote :

"just wait till solinari, fail boat and shaggy show up "

Not sure why I'm on the list, I hardly ever have an opinion of OSes.

8/11/2009 7:21:12 AM

Looks like my MSDN subscription is still good. Getting ultimate now.

8/11/2009 10:15:19 AM

I couldn't imagine why you'd ever be on a list of possible trolls lol

8/11/2009 10:18:16 AM

i just got a new laptop and i will receive a free upgrade to windows 7 in october.

guy told me that windows vista needs at least 1gb ram to run correctly..

but windows 7 will only need 512mb ram. is that true?

8/11/2009 11:06:17 AM

you're retarded for running the minimum on either. vista you really need at least 2gigs for it to be worth a damn

but yes, the requirements for win 7 are lower than vista.

8/11/2009 11:08:27 AM

oh yeah i'm not going to run the minimum (my laptop has 3 gig ram)...but i was just confirming that windows 7 should run faster than vista since it doesn't require as much

8/11/2009 11:12:32 AM

Quote :

"but i was just confirming that windows 7 should run faster than vista since it doesn't require as much"

true

8/11/2009 11:21:04 AM

Quote :

"I hit my first hiccups with 7mc today."

Yesterday when I got home windows explorer crashed for some reason, and I'm kinda disappointed in xp mode.

8/11/2009 11:42:50 AM

The only issues I've had thus far with 7MC is the time it takes to download the TV schedule seems to take longer than that of Vista.

Other than that, 7MC picked up the fact I had a WHS on the network and installed the MC connector for WHS automatically. Streams just great. Handles PowerDVD great and opens it automatically when I insert HD-DVD and Blu-ray discs.

So glad they separated videos and movies, it's now a LOT easier to use and I have cover art for all my music and DVD's working flawlessly.

I have the LG GGC-H20L and it works great.

8/11/2009 1:29:53 PM

lmfao I just noticed he was talking about MC specifically.

8/11/2009 1:47:03 PM

^why are you using xp mode? I've yet to have a single app that hasnt working natively or using the compatibility setting.

8/11/2009 4:58:22 PM

^the VMware vSphere client doesn't work due to a change in the .net libraries (unless you do a roundabout hack)

8/11/2009 5:01:52 PM

Because I need to use visual studio 2005 for work. It kinda does OK natively in 7 (as of the RC) but I can't build my entire project from the command line (we use batch files to build which call visual studio project by project, thanks to fucked up dependencies -- don't get me started) without something fucking up, so last night I was trying to get it to work in XP mode. Had similar problems. I'm starting to think some of it is because of esata drivers or firmware or something, and not because of Windows 7. Of course, since 2005 isn't supported on 7, and you have to run it as an administrator, it might just be less of a headache to get it working in xp mode.

8/11/2009 5:10:36 PM

Anyone using 7 in boot camp on a mac? I just repartitioned my boot camp drive and installed 7 and the only issue I am running into is I can not get my mac partition to show up, to access music and pictures in windows. When I had xp as my boot camp partition it worked like a charm with no setup on my part. I know it is the RC but has anyone got that to work? Thanks

8/11/2009 5:48:30 PM

^it doesn't work because the HFS driver included with boot camp doesn't like windows 7, from what i've seen.

apple will fix this for sure later, but in the meantime, see if you can get by with a free trial of macdrive.

8/11/2009 6:43:17 PM

^^^ Or you could, you know, upgrade to VS2008

8/11/2009 7:07:01 PM

Yeah I've never even thought about accessing the mac partition.. that's about the only thing that didn't work though in win 7 on my mbp

8/11/2009 7:10:38 PM

^^ lol, yeah that'd be nice, but we haven't even moved our development machines to XP sp3 yet

8/11/2009 7:56:50 PM

need to move them to 7

8/12/2009 11:44:18 AM

yeah one of the IT guys said "we'll probably just go straight to 7" but it will probably take a long time because our customers will probably take a long time.

8/12/2009 11:46:59 AM

just got up and running with 7 Ultimate. everything that came with my Asus worked right out of the box practically, very impressed!

8/12/2009 10:59:12 PM

Dear HP network printer and scanner drivers,

Get fucked.

Regards,

dakota_man

8/13/2009 12:59:53 AM

I've never had a problem with them

8/13/2009 9:41:59 AM

The default Windows print driver prints just fine but I can't use the scanner (apparently) without installing the HP drivers. The printer is a photosmart C7180 that is connected to the wireless network.

Anywho, the drivers do OS version number checks on install at different points, so I can't install the Vista x64 versions.

[Edited on August 13, 2009 at 11:34 AM. Reason : .]

8/13/2009 11:34:07 AM

oh, i take that back

i did have some weird ass shit happen on on win 7 64 bit once

8/13/2009 11:53:47 AM

I'd be fine if it just warned me about not being supported and gave it a try

8/13/2009 12:16:54 PM

Can you extract the driver on a different machine, copy it over, and then manually force it to use the dll on the Win 7 machine?

[Edited on August 13, 2009 at 1:30 PM. Reason : -]

8/13/2009 1:30:19 PM