I think you're confusing my assessment of facts with support for war. And I'm certain you'll see, over time, that the facts bear out as described above. You'll also see if you can figure out how to execute both a Google search and critical reading, that the assessments regarding his involvement with attacks is accurate. Here's a reeaaaally simple example for you on just a base level that stems mainly from common sense: Considering he's a head of military units and also liases with numerous other entities such as Hezbollah, imagine an analogous situation:

A US Army captain asks to hit a Target and his CO approves. The CO is complicit. A CO directed a company to hit a Target. The CO is complicit. A CO asks a local allied tribe to hit a target. The CO is complicit.

[Edited on January 7, 2020 at 2:19 PM. Reason : A]

1/7/2020 2:18:40 PM

See, that's your whole issue there, most people on TWW aren't Target people

I'd like to think we are more Wal-Mart/Sam's Club/Costco

and probably a few Publix

so....


oh shit I'm in soap box again

1/7/2020 3:12:42 PM

^^
How many Americans would he have ordered killed if we weren't illegally and violently occupying most of the middle east?

1/7/2020 3:23:04 PM

There is an entirely valid debate/discussion to be had on that, no question about it.

1/7/2020 3:37:37 PM

The answer is 0. If we use your logic, then every single US general and president is an evil terrorist who has killed many people including Americans and therefore should be assassinated. Obama supplied weapons to Saudi Arabia who used them to bomb a school bus so now Obama is a terrorist who kills schoolchildren. You voted for and funded leadership that killed thousands so now even individuals are complicit and should be assassinated extra-judiciously. Anyone who is ever with you at any time is also complicit. Where do you draw the line? Your ridiculous assertions are very similar to the thought processes of groups like ISIS could go on and on until everyone either has an instant death sentence or is completely innocent. Do you consider yourself a terrorist?

1/7/2020 3:49:31 PM

Too many people treat Iran as some uniquely horrible terrorist state and not a country reacting to outside imperialist forces. Hence why the language such as “he’s bad” or “he killed Americans!” is essentially irrelevant to denouncing his assassination and only serves to bolster the arguments of exceptionalists and hawks.

Corbyn killed it here:

https://twitter.com/samcoatessky/status/1214619621443211265?s=21

[Edited on January 7, 2020 at 3:54 PM. Reason : .]

1/7/2020 3:51:48 PM

Sanders fucked up

Sanders on CNN yesterday: Soleimani "was a bad news guy, but he was a ranking official of the Iranian government.”

1/7/2020 4:39:48 PM

A new Gulf War after 30 years is starting?

1/7/2020 4:45:52 PM

^^
It's a bad qualifier and something he's done before. One of my top disagreements with him (see also: Maduro). Still didn't parrot right-wing propaganda by using language like murderer or terrorist or referencing the number of deaths he's responsible for.

1/7/2020 5:10:33 PM

"The answer is 0."

Yep, still a complete and utter lack of understanding of how the world works.

1/7/2020 5:13:38 PM

Quote :

"Too many people treat Iran as some uniquely horrible terrorist state and not a country reacting to outside imperialist forces. Hence why the language such as “he’s bad” or “he killed Americans!” is essentially irrelevant to denouncing his assassination and only serves to bolster the arguments of exceptionalists and hawks."

The language is not irrelevant, nor are the facts. But your point is valid, regarding Iran reacting to outside forces, just like every other country on earth reacts to outside forces, including America.

Finally caught up to the current affairs article posted earlier - great article.

[Edited on January 7, 2020 at 6:16 PM. Reason : a]

1/7/2020 6:15:07 PM

Quote :

"Too many people treat Iran as some uniquely horrible terrorist state and not a country reacting to outside imperialist forces."

My position is that there is at least a solid case to be made for offing Soleimani. That said, President Duke probably wouldn't have found himself in this position, because he wouldn't have pulled out of the nuclear agreement, cranking Iranian belligerence up to 11.

...and yes, Iran is reacting to outside forces, but those forces are also acting upon them because they are absolutely a uniquely horrible terrorist state.

1/7/2020 6:28:29 PM

It begins:

https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status/1214688696647204864?s=20

1/7/2020 6:28:34 PM

Quote :

" Sanders on CNN yesterday: Soleimani "was a bad news guy, but he was a ranking official of the Iranian government.”"

There is literally nothing at all wrong with this and if people are mad about a qualifier such as that they are being pedantic.

1/7/2020 6:35:48 PM

^^

1/7/2020 6:56:50 PM

fuck

1/7/2020 7:09:57 PM

Not sure if this includes the Bragg and now (https://www.witn.com/content/news/Report-NC-Marines-redirected-amid-tensions-with-Iran-566764071.html) Lejeune guys yet.

1/7/2020 7:14:57 PM

Quote :

"fuck"

1/7/2020 7:39:24 PM

so they at least killed a high ranking iraqi official. dumb move all around for Iran. Should've just let it go and been the victim instead of stooping to Trump's level. Things must really be bad domestically for them to want to actually be attacked.

[Edited on January 7, 2020 at 8:00 PM. Reason : where is pelosi? get your head out your ass and take back the powers]

1/7/2020 7:57:57 PM

No, their nation is simply responding to a likely impetus given to them by their citizens, same as America after Pearl Harbor. That's how it's being portrayed, interpreted and calculated (both militarily and politically) within their country. This is how humans react. This is how nations react. Your statement in this context is a perfect display of how little you know about much of anything on this subject.

Pelosi can't do shit because of all of you who voted people like Trump and McConnell into power.

Quote :

"dumb move all around for Iran"

There's a chance this is accurate, though I put it around 60% at best, at the moment. Depends on the substance of any discussions their military and diplomatic corps are having with Russian and Chinese officials.

Side note unrelated to this post specifically: Saw this headline on FoxNews and just stared blankly:

Quote :

"Graham says he told Trump on Iran: 'Cultural sites, religious sites are not lawful targets'"

You'd think Graham would be concerned at the mere fact he had to tell a United States President this. He's saying this like he's bragging, like "no worries people, I told trump it's against the law to bomb hospitals, you can all go back to what you were doing."

[Edited on January 7, 2020 at 8:18 PM. Reason : a]

1/7/2020 8:13:30 PM

Quote :

"where is pelosi? get your head out your ass and take back the powers"

Why you hollering for Pelosi, bro? I thought you said Trump was all like

1/7/2020 8:23:28 PM

Well if Trump comes to the table now, you'll be right (and Trump becomes a hero for ending it) but if Trump hits back even harder then what? They end up with many dead instead of 1 and the stakes are exponentially higher.

Pelosi hasn't tried to do anything though. She hasn't even submitted the articles that were so urgent a few weeks ago. The democrats are complicit in giving Trump a higher military budget. They had the house, senate, and president a decade ago and still didn't take the war powers back. Pelosi shares blame for everything.

Quote :

"Why you hollering for Pelosi, bro? I thought you said Trump was all like"

Look, Trump was always antiwar and had some antiwar people around him. The entire calculus changed when you guys made up a bunch of bs about a phone call and impeached him. Now, he's listening to the wrong people because he's under all this unnecessary pressure. Dems knew he didn't have a good temperament and decided to make up shit to impeach him for anyway. They were scared they couldn't beat him in an election and decided to push a madman over the edge.

I was wrong but I never imagined how low the democrats would stoop to push him to this.

[Edited on January 7, 2020 at 8:31 PM. Reason : this is on pelosi 100% how long has she sat on the articles? driving trump crazy]

1/7/2020 8:25:31 PM

^Oh yeah, anything, just so long as we don't blame Trump for any of this.

The usual Bullshit I've come to expect.

1/7/2020 8:37:07 PM

Quote :

"She hasn't even submitted the articles that were so urgent a few weeks ago."

Maybe that's because the foreman of the jury has been coordinating with the defendant. Oh and maybe because he thinks they shouldn't have anything close to an actual trial, you know, with things like witnesses and evidence.

Quote :

"Pelosi shares blame for everything"

I could emphatically agree with this if you replaced "Pelosi" with every member of the House and Senate since the end of World War 2.

[Edited on January 7, 2020 at 8:48 PM. Reason : a]

1/7/2020 8:39:31 PM

Iran launched 313 missiles at an Iraqi airbase. Us scrambled jets from UAE. Reports say Iran has also scrambled jets.

Iran is saying 30 American soldiers dead.

1/7/2020 8:52:05 PM

tRuMp Is aNtIwAr

1/7/2020 8:52:23 PM

Al Asad is in the middle of nowhere, and there is plenty of that base that is just open dirt. My guess is that Iran targeted some dirt coordinates, unlikely to hit anything of consequence, saves face, we let it go more or less and offer them an offramp, which everyone to include them wants them to take.

There will be more little harassing actions and bad-actor moves by Iran (seizing more tankers, rockets here and there, sponsoring more terrorism, etc), but generally, a de-escalation back to where things were before we smoked Soleimani (which is, of course, still a relative escalation from where things were).

[Edited on January 7, 2020 at 8:56 PM. Reason : On the 10% odds of 30 US dead, the B-2s and TLAMs are probably getting ready now ]

1/7/2020 8:55:43 PM

Oh you meant name of missile.

[Edited on January 7, 2020 at 9:11 PM. Reason : 313 missiles]

1/7/2020 9:09:47 PM

^^Yea, but that's the type of response under a Bush or Obama, not a deranged moron like Trump who is no longer surrounded by people like Mattis.

Quote :

"Iran launched 313 missiles at an Iraqi airbase. Us scrambled jets from UAE. Reports say Iran has also scrambled jets. Iran is saying 30 American soldiers dead."

313 launched with 12 hitting sounds like the accuracy of a third world nation so maybe that's correct, haha. Then again you'd expect to hear about them hitting elsewhere.

[Edited on January 7, 2020 at 9:11 PM. Reason : a]

1/7/2020 9:10:13 PM

I misread the report. 313 is a type of missile Fateh-313. It was dozens of missiles launched.

Seeing now it was 15 missiles launched but 4 failed. 10 hit the base maybe.

Pentagon is saying Iraqi personnel were killed but not American personnel.

[Edited on January 7, 2020 at 9:16 PM. Reason : ]

1/7/2020 9:12:20 PM

I'd shy away honestly from any numbers right now. The press isn't going to get an accurate assessment on anything likely for a couple days at least. They're all just rushing to out-report each other.

1/7/2020 9:15:38 PM

Quote :

" All is well! Missiles launched from Iran at two military bases located in Iraq. Assessment of casualties & damages taking place now. So far, so good! We have the most powerful and well equipped military anywhere in the world, by far! I will be making a statement tomorrow morning."

The latest tweet seems to be signaling there won’t be a counter strike but who knows...

1/7/2020 9:55:06 PM

^WTF?

I had to look that up thought it was fake. Guess should know better by now..

1/7/2020 10:20:30 PM

Now a report a Ukrainian passenger plane has crashed in Tehran??

https://twitter.com/CalNBC/status/1214753142560247808

[Edited on January 7, 2020 at 10:41 PM. Reason : .]

1/7/2020 10:40:47 PM

So it looks like theduke was correct and they just hit dirt. Trump seems to be downplaying it. How could this "maintain legitimacy with their people at home" when its essentially just a show of force. We will find out in the morning if Trump is pro-war or anti-war.

[Edited on January 7, 2020 at 11:59 PM. Reason : the media hype had me fooled too. cnn was all defcon5]

[Edited on January 8, 2020 at 12:00 AM. Reason : reminds me of the time Trump "started ww3" with tomahawks in Syria]

1/7/2020 11:54:02 PM

This has been nothing but hyperbole from the get go. We actually went to war in 2003, this feels nothing like that

1/8/2020 12:05:52 AM

If iran didn’t kill anyone and accidentally shot down a departing passenger jet, this was a huge failure on their part. Reminds me when they released badly photoshopped missile launches a few years ago, or that supposed drone they captured that looked like a badly built model.

1/8/2020 8:44:31 AM

they probably didn't want to hit anyone, and the earliest reports on the plane crash are that it was probably some kind of mechanical issue

1/8/2020 9:08:16 AM

Either way this is about the best case outcome right now for our country assuming trump doesn’t retaliate. I would have to imagine Iran is going to ramp up their covert attacks and probably their nuclear program too.

1/8/2020 9:19:14 AM

they have overtly increased their uranium enrichment after trump pulled out of the nuclear deal

Iran's foreign minister said they performed and concluded their strikes:

Quote :

"Iran took & concluded proportionate measures in self-defense under Article 51 of UN Charter targeting base from which cowardly armed attack against our citizens & senior officials were launched. We do not seek escalation or war, but will defend ourselves against any aggression."

https://twitter.com/JZarif/status/1214736614217469953?s=20

1/8/2020 9:31:19 AM

To me it look’s so far like we’re conceding Iraq to Iran and Russian, for the cost of Iran’s top general being assassinated.

1/8/2020 9:51:43 AM

^^^^That jet was shot down or blown up. It was a 3 year old 737 NG (not Max) and Iran was blaming the engine while the plane was still a fireball on the ground. The plane was in a good steady climb 4000' AGL in a nice straight line when it just ends. Photos from the scene show fragmentation holes in the side of the plane. I'd put large amounts of money on Iranian air defenses being on a hair trigger looking for stealth aircraft in their vicinity after the ballistic missile strikes. They acidentally fired on the plane and the proximity warhead got close enough and blew it out of the sky. It was loaded with fuel and ignited the tanks. Its even more suspicious that Iran has recovered the black boxes and is not going to turn them over to any outside parties to review.

They shot that plane down and are now covering their asses.

[Edited on January 8, 2020 at 10:13 AM. Reason : ]

1/8/2020 10:13:30 AM

As far as I've read, Iran has only said they won't hand the black boxes over to the US or Boeing

1/8/2020 10:54:45 AM

Trudeau, who I assume has access to better intelligence than TWW/Twitter put out a very non accusatory statement this morning.

1/8/2020 11:06:13 AM

Appears to be a real de-escalation here thankfully.

Glad Pelosi didn’t start a real war here.

[Edited on January 8, 2020 at 11:40 AM. Reason : Also, he sounded physically unwell]

1/8/2020 11:36:11 AM

^^^^ it was the Ukranian embassy that made the initial statement that it was mechanical

1/8/2020 11:41:43 AM

I think I was too optimistic earlier. Trump seems to be asking for more troops to the Middle East. I can’t see this as deescalating. It seems like he wants more sanctions too. I feel like this is still more ratcheting up towards a conflict.

Also asking other countries to stop complying with the Iran deal seems like another step towards more conflict. My reading is he wants to build a NATO coalition for war with Iran?

[Edited on January 8, 2020 at 11:43 AM. Reason : ]

1/8/2020 11:41:47 AM

It’s a clear de-escalation from the aftermath of the assassination. There is no doubt about that. And we should all be glad about that while understanding the initial escalation is all because of him in the first place.

Trump still has no coherent plan or vision with the Middle East at large. He talks of bringing home troops as he sends 15,000 more in the last six months. He talks of negotiating with Iran as he shits on them non-stop.

As best I can tell his only foreign policy ideas are “undo Obama.”

[Edited on January 8, 2020 at 11:47 AM. Reason : Also, hire some fucking speech writers worth a damn and stop relying on Steven Goebbels]

1/8/2020 11:46:15 AM

Iran's targets were predictable and understandable.

Either they were going to shoot dirt or Iraqis. Either accomplishes their goals, with targeting Iraqis going even further.

1/8/2020 11:48:20 AM

Quote :

"Also, he sounded physically unwell"

I just heard the first minute or so of the speech on NPR... and it definitely sounds like something is wrong with him. Weak, weird pronunciations, slurring, random pauses...

1/8/2020 12:14:44 PM