Quote :

"3. That chart is fucking ridiculous. I don't even know where to start with it, but fuck it, it doesn't warrant that serious of a response, anyway."

The other chart is based on ideas and not current practice. this chart is based on modern political figures. By this standard, sanders is quite center. Most comparable to Hollande out of everyone on the list. Also notice how Obama is not actually left. The problem with Americans is that they have called people like obama socialists so there is no sense of what it means to be far left when everything thats not ultra conservative is being considered far left.

Quote :

"isn't really constrained by reality, or for that matter, facts."

What reality or facts is he not constrained by? Status quo american politics? Its naive to say things are too broken to ever be fixed.

People like you saying things like "You can't break up the banks, they are just too powerful" is why they are powerful. Until some "idealist" comes in and say, we can, and we will break up the banks, they will continue to be "too powerful"

[Edited on January 16, 2016 at 11:49 AM. Reason : j]

[Edited on January 16, 2016 at 11:52 AM. Reason : kk]

1/16/2016 11:48:47 AM

Quote :

"No, he is not a "pure" socialist, but I feel pretty comfortable calling him a socialist."

well that's because you either have no idea what socialist means or you have been misled about his position

sanders is a social democrat

1/16/2016 12:24:33 PM

Sanders may be more communist that socialist.

1/17/2016 7:16:19 PM

^^^

Quote :

"By this standard, sanders is quite center."

hahaha, well sure, it depends on where you define the center. If you define the center in the right spot, the Sanders will be located at it.

Suffice to say, though, that Sanders:

1. Has very substantial socialist tendancies, and
2. In the context of American politics--which is really all that matters for the purpose of this discussion--he is very much left of center.

That he would not be considered left wing in western European welfare states, or that he's not as far to the left as Jill Stein, who will probably manage to make the (L) candidate look popular and successful, really is irrelevant.

[Edited on January 17, 2016 at 8:00 PM. Reason : and politicalcompass is an interesting website, but their write-ups are hardly unbiased]

1/17/2016 7:59:32 PM

Quote :

"2. In the context of American politics--which is really all that matters for the purpose of this discussion--he is very much left of center."

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746
The US is an oligarchy so when politics is controlled by big money of course American politics, and their debates will tend to be far right.

So for the purpose of this discussion, no, that is not what matters. What the American people want is what matters.

1/17/2016 8:44:34 PM

Quote :

"she's a retarded war hawk, you two would love each other"

Just to quantify how completely out in the retardisphere this statement is, here are some results from my "isidewith.com" test:

Out of current candidates, Rand Paul is closest to me (81%)...probably not really a surprise, although I'm actually a little surprised the alignment is that high.

Sanders was 2% more aligned with me than Hillary Clinton. I would say that is neither expected nor surprising. Both were predictably low (60% or something).

I side slightly towards “Privacy” vs "security". (Surprised it wasn't at least "moderately.")

Moderately towards "Globalism" vs "Protectionism."

Moderately towards Laissez-faire" vs "Keynesian."

Moderately towards "Capitalism" vs "Socialism."

Slightly towards "Elitism" vs "Populism".

Moderately towards "Tough" vs "Tender."

Moderately towards small vs big gov't, individualism vs collectivism, and deregulation vs regulation.

Moderately towards isolationism vs imperialism.

Slightly towards multiculturalism vs assimilation, and towards progressive vs traditional.

Moderately towards environmentalism vs anthropocentrism.

A centrist on pacifism vs militarism issues. (almost a perfectly even split.

On the left/right graph, I am very, very slightly left (like maybe 5%), and moderately libertarian vs authoritarian (40%, maybe 45%?)

As in many previous cases, dtownral, the characterization you have in your mind of my politics is dramatically off.



http://www.cato.org/blog/2016-presidential-candidate-intervention-meter
http://swampland.time.com/2014/01/14/hillary-clintons-unapologetically-hawkish-record-faces-2016-test/
http://fee.org/anythingpeaceful/is-donald-the-most-hawkish-candidate-sadly-no/
_______________

For all the big names running in 2016, I can't imagine how many people could actually be excited about their choices, other than the silly types who genuinely support Bernie Sanders, not just because he's the "Democrat who isn't Clinton", and the Trump crowd, who...well I don't fucking know what it is that they like, other than bombast and appeal to the simple-minded.

Republicans on balance are sickened by what's in front of them, which is widely known...but I'm surprised that there aren't more Democrats complaining more loudly about having [effectively] two deeply flawed choices.

[Edited on January 17, 2016 at 8:50 PM. Reason : ]

1/17/2016 8:50:27 PM

you've made loads of authoritarian military posts, you are an idiotic fascist like Clinton and the GOP

1/17/2016 9:18:08 PM

Quote :

"well I don't fucking know what it is that they like"

i don't know, maybe fair markets and a strong middle class like most of the country you retard

1/17/2016 9:19:21 PM

^^ You are a fucking moron.

Do you think I rail against and vote against those entities, or else abstain if there's no other option, because I agree with them?

I think Iraq was a catastrophic mistake. Afghanistan should have been called "complete" after a year or two (and monitored, with "whack-a-terrorist" if needed, like we do in other places.) I'm basically for the Iran deal, and has thought for many years that we should have expanded diplomatic relations with them, I'm basically for continuing our policy in Syria in terms of maintaining airstrikes, but brokering a deal with the Russians and Assad for him to maintain some power for a while, with a long-term plan for him to step down. I think Libya was a mistake. I think we should normalize relations with Cuba (and have thought that for a long, long time. Prob 15+ years.)

I don't think we need more military spending. What we have is sufficient; we DO badly need to overhaul the budgeting and acquisitions processes.

Without being a Putin apologist or stiff-arming countries who desire freedom and inclusion with the West, I don't think we should actively court nations with Russia's sphere; I think that Russia has a history of being invaded and doesn't enjoy the geographic isolation we have. Insensitivity to that ultimately provokes Russian expansionism, and from there, conflict with the West. It's a fine line, and we shouldn't just defer to Putin, but we shouldn't actively endeavor to encroach on Russia's "buffer zone." We won the Cold War, it's over, and there's no need to continue to rub their nose in it.

China is a threat, and I think that we should honor it and prepare militarily, always keeping the decidedly upper hand, but ultimately we should continue to develop our relationship with them as a trading partner. I think that is, in the long run, better than the arms race approach. Maybe someday conditions will even permit an amicable reintegration of Taiwan?

Where I do lean hawkish is that I'm pretty much OK with drone strikes as needed, as long as we're judicious with our application, and I think we should hammer the shit out of ISIS with airstrikes, although I don't know whether we can do a whole lot more without generating too much collateral damage and civilian casualties. I don't really want to cut defense spending, at least as of now. I would support strikes on Iran if they break the deal and that's the least-bad remaining option (and it would be a really bad one); allowing them nuclear weapons is a non-starter.

^ I'll leave the Trump apologies to you.

[Edited on January 17, 2016 at 10:36 PM. Reason : ]

1/17/2016 10:12:46 PM

Trump is talking about imposing a 35% tax on American companies goods' that are manufactured overseas and brought back here...I guess that is pretty much a domestic tariff?

He also says he would force these companies to bring their manufacturing back to the US, specifically Ford and Apple. Not sure how he plans to do that, other than the tax I mentioned.

I wonder how the economics of such a policy would play out? Sure it would potentially bring thousands of jobs back to the US, but would it be worth it for the general public to be unable to afford a Ford, one of the cheaper car manufacturers out there? And while he's mentioned Ford and Apple, he pretty much has applied this statement to all American based companies manufacturing overseas.

1/19/2016 10:41:06 AM

Quote :

" AFFORD A FORD"

1/19/2016 10:57:00 AM

Quote :

" Just to quantify how completely out in the retardisphere this statement is, here are some results from my "isidewith.com" test: Out of current candidates, Rand Paul is closest to me (81%)...probably not really a surprise, although I'm actually a little surprised the alignment is that high."

Surprisingly it said i matched 89% with Bernie Sanders. From the site it appears we agree on most things except for economic policies that are focused on more handouts for poor people, blanket increase in taxes (I don't cry about rich people paying more taxes but feel corporate taxes should be reduced and increased taxes should come from closing loopholes or unfair policies such as carried interest), his support for Affirmitive action, amnesty and gov't services for illegals, and his aversion to get involved against ISIS even as part of a coalition.

1/19/2016 3:51:53 PM

TRUMP/PALIN 16

1/19/2016 4:22:58 PM

Ted Cruz got nuked today.


[Edited on January 19, 2016 at 5:11 PM. Reason : d]

1/19/2016 5:08:14 PM

Where yall at?

Palin just WENT IN ON THE GOP

1/19/2016 7:21:52 PM

John McCain is crying.

1/19/2016 8:45:19 PM

Please fucking sweet Jesus let there be a Trump/Palin ticket! Hahahaha


I want either Trump or Cruz to run with Palin, and get their asses kicked by Bernie Sanders and either Kucinich or Nader. Like, absolutely Mondaled. I want the GOP to extend their Congressional leads even further, and then the whole town of DC do not one goddamned thing for 4 years, after which a reborn GOP can rise from the ashes, like a moderate, reasonable, not fucking idiotic phoenix.

[Edited on January 19, 2016 at 9:24 PM. Reason : ]

[Edited on January 19, 2016 at 9:26 PM. Reason : ]

1/19/2016 9:17:22 PM

given her history, it's beyond absurd that this is getting major attention from news outlets

par for the course, obviously

1/19/2016 9:22:17 PM

What history? history of insane cult like popularity amongst tea party voters? populairty amongst the same type of voters that support cruz?

1/19/2016 9:32:22 PM

^^^ I'm curious how you foresee that happening. Republicans made an attempt at being moderate and reasonable after Romney's loss, and here we are...

^^ How about the history of her endorsing Ted Cruz and Rand Paul?

1/19/2016 11:17:26 PM

Of all the candidates we are the most fucked if Ted Cruz wins. Unless you are an oil baron or oligarch then Bernie Sanders is your worst case scenario.

1/20/2016 12:19:42 AM

Trump is no difference than Mitt Romney in 2012, and even older. He also has some issues with his family. Three marriages is too much to be the commander-in-chief. If he is elected, I bet there will be more divorces happening in US among rich people.

Cruz's problem is mainly that he's too young for a republican president candidate. Usually they are older than 60. Also the party probably worry about if he can really beat Hillary or Bernie even if he wins the nominee inside the party.

I like Cruz mainly because of his toughness against aggressive Communist China. But it's possible he may wait for another 4 yrs. He's only 45. And there's already a young leader of Republican, Paul Ryan.

Same as Marco Rubio. They two are Republican and Hispanic Obama. However, I don't see ANY signs that they want to speak for Hispanic people and other minorities.

Now it's the game between two generations basically. Trump/Bush VS Cruz/Rubio. It's very likely the seniors are gonna win.

1/20/2016 10:45:54 AM

1/20/2016 11:50:58 AM

ha

1/20/2016 1:09:50 PM

Quote :

"Cruz's problem is mainly that he's too young for a republican president candidate. Usually they are older than 60. Also the party probably worry about if he can really beat Hillary or Bernie even if he wins the nominee inside the party."

The guy is in the deep pockets of Big Oil and his means of getting elected is catering too the hardcore
evangelical christian right. You do not want this guy president.

Quote :

" Cruz mainly because of his toughness against aggressive Communist China. "

LOL can you really call China communist anymore.

1/20/2016 1:36:47 PM

Yes, they are still communists. But they hide themselves very very well. There are a bunch of millionaires and even billionaires but they still label them poor communists, which is a pretty tricky situation. The ordinary Chinese people are still poor, trust me. No middle-class in China. You are either fucking damn rich, or you live on pennies per day.

And communism is just totally evil, not only a concept of poorness. They are enemies of free world.

I would say Cruz & Rubio still have a good chance to be nominated. It's just January now. Still early. They just need to adjust the strategy a little bit. They represent global diversity. What they need is a little bit patience and let the old guys see their potentials.

You are right, Cruz has money. He has a rich dad, who owns oil fields in TX. And behind him is actually the Bush family. So this is like Bush+Cruz VS Trump.

Also about religious issue for Cruz, lack of belief is not just a national issue, it's also global. Those 3rd-world country people DON'T have belief. They just want MONEY, MONEY, MONEY. They need care from God. They need to know God.

[Edited on January 20, 2016 at 2:47 PM. Reason : one more]

1/20/2016 2:33:55 PM

Just wiki Trump's personal life. Three wives, all super models, even flirted with Princess Diana.... That's why British people don't like him. Trump VS Hilary to me is just like Romney VS Obama 4 yrs ago. Trump VS Bernie is probably like Bush VS Kerry in 2004, but I don't think Bernie can beat Hilary first, unless there's a HUGE change.

1/20/2016 3:14:52 PM

On the contrary, Cruz VS Hilary/Bernie could be like Obama VS McCain in 2008. Cruz+Parlin or Cruz+ Carly Fiorina seems like a decent combo actually.

So still early.

1/20/2016 3:49:32 PM

Good one man, thought you were serious when I first stated reading your first post

1/20/2016 4:44:12 PM

I AM serious man. Why do you think I'm not?

US still needs a Reagan style republican president, I agree it with Cruz. Because McCain and Romney already failed twice.

Also Trump is a typical playboy to me. Of course he's rich and successful, but he's more like a big mouth, not suitable for a politician at such a high level.

[Edited on January 20, 2016 at 7:41 PM. Reason : ;]

1/20/2016 7:26:49 PM

Quote :

"Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump Wacko @glennbeck is a sad answer to the @SarahPalinUSA endorsement that Cruz so desperately wanted. Glenn is a failing, crying, lost soul! 12h ago "

1/21/2016 8:22:09 PM

This is the fascist asshole some of you like huh? He is nothing but a Mini Mussolini.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10153362247819205&id=210277954204

What's scarier is his support base. I really want to see him as president cuz I am curious as hell what it means for the country and the world, but it is not worth fucking up the entire world for 4 years just to satisfy my curiosity. If it were just 1 year max, I would take it.

1/22/2016 3:34:43 PM

uh, who the fuck here do you think likes trump?

1/22/2016 3:50:14 PM

He's not a conservative.---Jeb Bush

1/22/2016 4:47:21 PM

Why do republicans think saying trump isn't conservative will help them? There's been a few studies demonstrating that republican politicians are more conservative than republican voters... This can only help trump.

1/22/2016 10:26:20 PM

Because they want a conservative candidate to pull the country back from Obama and Hilary.

1/22/2016 10:52:52 PM

1/26/2016 10:14:32 AM

He was an ambitious young man at that time.

1/26/2016 10:34:09 AM

So Ricky Perry endorsed Cruz, praising him as a consistent conservative.

1/26/2016 3:42:29 PM

haha Rick Perry thinks he matters

1/26/2016 3:51:59 PM

Falwell Jr. endorses Trump.

1/26/2016 5:31:10 PM

Is that Ted Cruz video legit?

1/26/2016 6:11:54 PM

What makes you think it's not?

1/26/2016 6:14:26 PM

Trump boycotting the foxnews debate.

1/26/2016 8:05:59 PM

^ because of megyn Kelley ... Pretty hilarious.

1/26/2016 8:46:40 PM

His supporters will eat this up (of course they'd also enjoy being spoon fed ice cream out of his asshole) but I can't imagine any undecided would actually vote for this clown in the primary.

1/26/2016 8:55:27 PM

2016:

The GOP frontrunner, a recently former Democrat, meeting few conservative litmus tests, as a billionaire running an idiot populist campaign, shunned by the RNC, boycotts the last debate before the Iowa Caucus--hosted by FOX NEWS CHANNEL!

the runner-up candidate is a Senator who is universally hated, personally and professionally, by the entire Senate, to include his own party.

The son and brother of Presidents, and the most well-funded candidate, is basically a minor footnote.


On the Democratic side, we have a woman who has essentially been a crook for her entire professional life, being investigated by the FBI, who is pressuring the DOJ to indict her on very, very serious criminal charges, for which she will most likely go down hard if the politics of Washington don't save her from being indicted to start with.

A close second to her is a kooky, ancient, formerly Independent, self-described socialist, who just took a page from Walter Mondale's playbook and trumpeted his plan to raise taxes on everyone.

and then there's Martin O'Malley, who is presumably hanging in there polling at approximately zero, +/- the margin of error, just in case the criminal justice system rids his race of the criminal, and the DNC rids it of Bernie Sanders, and then it becomes a choice between him as the last man standing or "fuck you too, O'Malley--Biden, you're in."

1/26/2016 9:02:16 PM

great synopsis, when they find Ben Ghazi's emails I just know everyone will come to their senses and JEB! will be back on top

#praying

1/26/2016 9:30:57 PM

Trump wins.

1/26/2016 9:53:58 PM

Whoever wrote that...it feels like they could have lifted it from the comments section of any number of political commentary websites.


And now trump doesn't need to answer any real questions in the run up to Iowa, he can just keep bullshitting and he is STILL GOING TO GET A TON OF PRESS. touché trump touche

1/26/2016 10:05:09 PM