^^ Well we have guards who were for the most part unable to dribble into the zone and create (when we went on the run it was with dribble penetration on fastbreaks but then cuse started getting back better)
as^ mentioned we had foul trouble on our big men. and we were missing our only real legit low post scoring option.
Not too many options to go to.

12/6/2010 12:20:00 PM

^^ That's one of the things that I wtf about the most here.

How are we committing SO many more fouls than the other team? there was a point when the foul total was us with 10 fouls and syracuse with 5... That's quite a discrepancy. I don't even know what to make of it

12/6/2010 12:25:06 PM

our big men are very foul prone. vandy and painter because they get lost and howell because he reaches a lot

12/6/2010 12:27:49 PM

Also we played two upper echelon NCAA teams on their home courts. You tend to get fucked by officials when that happens. Wisconsin's arena is notorious for this effect. I have seen some teams get fucked by the officials in that arena.

12/6/2010 12:57:09 PM

I really don't think having Vandy, Howell, and Painter in foul trouble is that big of a deal. None of them do anything spectacular as to set them apart from each other, so we use them pretty much interchangeably. And normally just having a lot of fouls to put the other team in the bonus would hurt, but Syracuse was not shooting particularly well from the charity strip on Saturday.

I don't think anyone should be upset from the game on Saturday, but I don't see how you could be happy. This team really really needed that win. I think we have enough talent to do really well in the ACC and have our conference record negate our poor OOC record...but I fear our youth and mediocre coaching will leave us at 8-8/9-7 and out of the tourney because of a weak ACC.

12/6/2010 12:57:10 PM

So at the center position Painter=Vandy? NOOOO WAAAY! While Painter is limited he is a better rebounder, less turnover prone, and better defensively then Vandenburg the only thing that Vandenburg has on Painter is he is taller. Howell really plays more of a PF.

12/6/2010 1:09:27 PM

I'm not saying that all three are the identical player, I'm just saying that none of them stand out in any aspect as to make it that big of a difference as to who's on the floor. As limited as Vandy is offensively, he makes up for it in the shot-blocking/alteration category. Syracuse really did nothing down-low when he was in there. And he's not the most aggressive rebounder, but he makes up for it in size. But Howell and Painter add a little bit more offensively.

Either way, can't wait to get Tracy back so we can actually have some inside game, save a few instances where Howell finds his...only to lose it immediately.

12/6/2010 1:15:17 PM

The way they're playing now, I'd much rather have Painter in over Vandenburg. Hopefully getting these guys all this PT will pay dividends when Tracy comes back and needs a breather.

12/6/2010 1:31:56 PM

Painter can actually make a few post moves. vandy is just a slow big guy who still gets dunked and scored on.

And we keep throwing alley oop attempts to him despite the fact that it is a sure turnover.

--

Correction - we played 1 upper-echelon NCAA team in georgetown. Wisconsin and Syracuse are low top 25. Syracuse did not impress me in the slightest.

Their superior coach made a good call on that press, but they were worse than us offensively and defensively. They took advantage of our inexperience at key moments in the game, though, and won.

12/6/2010 1:58:24 PM

Quote :

"And we keep throwing alley oop attempts to him despite the fact that it is a sure turnover. "

That's actually not a "fact". He's had at least two alley-oop dunks this season that i recall. But yeah, at this point, he's more likely to turn it over.



[Edited on December 6, 2010 at 2:08 PM. Reason : ]

12/6/2010 2:08:30 PM

Quote :

"Correction - we played 1 upper-echelon NCAA team in georgetown. Wisconsin and Syracuse are low top 25. Syracuse did not impress me in the slightest."

Considering that there are roughly 350 Div 1 NCAA basketball programs I think borderline top 25 is considered the upper echelon of NCAA basketball.

12/6/2010 2:19:17 PM

if vandenberg actually had hands instead of blunt instruments I could maybe buy that his net value is somewhere near painter's right now, but unfortunately him playing volleyball with rebounds does not help us

12/6/2010 4:23:57 PM

^^ or get his dunk blocked.

@skokiann, very good analysis. we actually outplayed Syracuse and the full court press was a good move, however, i only recall them doing that for about 3 consecutive possessions, just enough to get them the 60-59 lead, but we had lots of opportunities to take the lead.

i thought we actually played really good defense against a team with a really good guard and a good wing player, Melo is also > Vandy, maybe a wash, slightly better than Painter

12/6/2010 4:30:57 PM

You guys are underating our schedule.

Statistically we've played the 17th toughest schedule in the nation so far and without our best player.

Wisc is #10, gtown #12, syracuse #21, and george mason is #56.
Ecu is 133, t.tech #222, fairleigh #310

The fairleigh and wisconsin games are really hurting our resume right now, outside of thosae games we've done pretty well all things considered and were ranked #68 right now.


If we get to 9-7 with our tough acc sched you can bet we'll move high enough to get in the tourney. We face duke, unc, fsu, clem, and wake twice we only get uva and gt once so that helps our SOS a ton.

9-7 is nearly impossible if tracy doesn't come back healthy (we're projected 6-10 right now) but if he's back 100% we're instantly light years better with painter and vandy playing less minutes. Don't forget how he opens up our perimeter, scores efficiently, and how well howell plays off of him.

12/6/2010 4:48:01 PM

Where do you see that at?

http://www.collegerpi.com/ has us at 18th with the #1 SOS but it's kinda moot at this point.

Why does it seem like we always play a hard ACC schedule in every sport? No Duke, UVA in football and now this basketball schedule. It hurts our chances to win but helps the RPI/SOS.

12/6/2010 10:32:27 PM

At this juncture in Sid's career, what are the minimum expectations for this season in order for the new AD to keep him around?

>.500 record is the ACC?
ncaa tourney berth?
vast improvement in team coordination?
consistently just below top 25 status?

12/9/2010 12:47:35 AM

We've gotta make the NCAA tournament, and I don't see how anyone could consider an NIT invite enough progress to warrant keeping Lowe.

12/9/2010 1:13:00 AM

agreed.

12/9/2010 7:51:19 AM

Final Four or bust.

12/9/2010 9:00:37 AM

I'm guessing Rally is using Kenpom... Which is stil heavily biased towards preseason ratings/projections

12/9/2010 9:46:46 AM

National Champions or the highway.

12/9/2010 11:33:38 AM

Retarded hyperbole aside, what do his most ardent supporters need to see? No NCAA and citing bad luck and next year is exactly the situation we simply have to avoid this go around IMO... Been there, done that.

12/9/2010 11:46:49 AM

I just don't see how anyone (even ardent supporters) could be content with not making the tourney this year.

12/9/2010 11:55:11 AM

I'm cool with hanging on to Sid in the case of devastatingly bad luck

Like if WolfpckGrl17 spreads some mutant venereal disease that no scientist has ever heard of to the whole team

But in the case of just regular bad luck and no tourney, it's probably time to move on

12/9/2010 12:15:56 PM

^^ same here.

I consider myself a pretty ardent lowe supporter, but if we don't make the tourney this year, it's time to move on, as badly as I want him to succeed here.

There is more than enough talent and depth on this team to be a tourney team. If that doesn't happen, there's nowhere to put the blame but on coaching.

12/9/2010 12:50:32 PM

Quote :

"Like if WolfpckGrl17 spreads some mutant venereal disease that no scientist has ever heard of to the whole team"

It would have to take some Butch Davis level ignorance to allow his team to associate with WolfpckGrl17. I think that may be a fireable offense as well

12/9/2010 12:50:40 PM

Sid has no knowledge of his players looking for white girls on BlackPlanet

12/9/2010 12:51:49 PM

I am fine with tourney or bust providing no incredible doses of bad luck (Tracy Smith out for 50% of the season).

12/9/2010 12:51:54 PM

^So as long as Tracy comes back at the beginning of ACC play, then no excuses, right?

12/9/2010 12:53:54 PM

Man you guys are antsy

Just let the damn season play out

12/9/2010 12:54:50 PM

for real. we're only 7 games into the season. The 2nd week of December just started.

12/9/2010 12:57:50 PM

It's a reasonable argument. We are talking about the end season result. What is wrong with that?

All of the last two years even the biggest supporters said this was the year.

12/9/2010 1:00:12 PM

I'll be honest, the thought of switching coaches scares me. I just don't see how it wouldn't be like starting all over again, back to where we were 5 years ago. And then it'd take another few years to get to the tournament. And everybody would be bitching about getting a new coach then, and the cycle woudl continue. i know that wouldn't necessarily happen, but that's what i think would happen.

12/9/2010 1:39:17 PM

I don't think it would be as bad as 5 years ago.

the 2011 team that coach X would be taking over > the 2006 team that Lowe took over

12/9/2010 1:52:29 PM

Quote :

"I'll be honest, the thought of switching coaches scares me. I just don't see how it wouldn't be like starting all over again, back to where we were 5 years ago. And then it'd take another few years to get to the tournament. And everybody would be bitching about getting a new coach then, and the cycle woudl continue. i know that wouldn't necessarily happen, but that's what i think would happen."

Switching coaches is never a good thing. But also staying with a coach who isn't producing is just as bad. Because at some point he's going to need to be replaced. Might as well get it over with rather than stick through a few more mediocre years and have to go through the rebuilding process a couple years later.

That being said, it will obviously be more beneficial to our program is Sidney can succeed here. I really hope it happens.

12/9/2010 1:54:41 PM

If we go 8-8 or 9-7 in conference play, just barely miss the tournament AND Sid picks up a couple more studs on the recruiting trail I could see keeping him around.

12/9/2010 1:55:51 PM

Quote :

"the 2011 team that coach X would be taking over > the 2006 team that Lowe took over "

that's true, if nobody jumps ship. i'd have to think some would though, i think Sid is the reason alot of recruits came to NC State. if he's not around, i'm not sure how many would stay.

eh, i just thinks its too early into the season to even discuss this. it could only hurt the team and recruiting (even if some of yall tink that a lot of recruits don't look at the inernet).

Wait until the season starts playing out to even begin having this discussion, i say.

12/9/2010 2:00:09 PM

^^ damn I hope we wouldn't miss the tourney with a 9-7 ACC record. After all, we're not playing Va. Tech's 2007/2008/2009 schedule.

12/9/2010 2:06:09 PM

^^

That's a point most seem to just ignore. Harrow would almost be guaranteed to leave (which I'm pretty sure he has already said since before he even got here), which would probably have an effect on the other guys. To what extent, though, who knows.

I get the frustration of "well how many more chances do we give him"...but much like Hewitt down at GT, you have to look at what the alternative cost is to replace him. With everything he has set up, and the risk we have to losing it...I just don't see letting him go as a viable option unless we finish near the bottom of the ACC this year with a healthy team all season.

[Edited on December 9, 2010 at 2:41 PM. Reason : -]

12/9/2010 2:40:56 PM

Transferring means waiting a full year in between playing. Harrow maybe, but no chance on the other two..

And lol at Hewitt. Dude should have been fired two years ago, Favors be damned.

[Edited on December 9, 2010 at 2:47 PM. Reason : X]

12/9/2010 2:46:29 PM

Quote :

"That's a point most seem to just ignore. Harrow would almost be guaranteed to leave (which I'm pretty sure he has already said since before he even got here), which would probably have an effect on the other guys. "

he said that if Lowe was here he would be coming here. Him leaving if Lowe did would be more dependent on who we brought in and how our AD handled the situation as would be the commitments from the incoming recruits. A lot of what happened with the Lowe situation was supposedly from Fowler's handling of the recruits after Sendek's departure. A lot of schools retain most of their top recruits when they go through a coaching change and don't lose any players.

12/9/2010 2:47:07 PM

Yeah and a lot of schools lose all their recruits, too.

But I don't think we should take that into account in firing Sid. This team is talented enough to be a good ACC team and make the tournament. I trust Yow enough to not fuck up any potential hires if we don't make the tournament.

I love Sid, but this is the year we were waiting for when saying we should give him more time. I think we will make the tourney, but if not then it's time to move on.

12/9/2010 2:52:22 PM

Quote :

" Why do you seem to forget that Sendek was at N.C. State for 10 years and made just one Sweet 16? He also did not win an ACC championship. Why shouldn't State fans expect more? In 1989, State's program had a history on par with UNC and better than Duke. State fans who still remember that history have a right to demand more. Sendek got 10 years, so why doesn't Lowe get at least six years? -- Blake Sims, Cleveland, Tenn. This was one of several e-mails I got in response to my comment about the poor way Sendek was treated by N.C. State fans. For starters, Blake is playing games with stats. He gives you a 10-year rundown of Sendek without mentioning that by the time he left Raleigh, Sendek had taken the Wolfpack to five consecutive NCAA tournaments, losing in the first round just once. His Sweet 16 appearance was in 2005, and he had just locked up a terrific recruiting class headed by point guard Chris Wright, who summarily backed out of his commitment and is now excelling at Georgetown. Sendek clearly had things on the upswing, but that wasn't good enough for the local fans, so he got out of dodge. Also, while it's true N.C. State was more competitive with Duke and North Carolina in 1989, Sendek did not take over as head coach until 1996. By that point the program was barely on a par with East Carolina. While I sympathize with N.C. State fans who want to see their team compete more evenly with those buggers down the road, the hard truth is that is nobody will be able to make that happen as long as Roy Williams and Mike Krzyzewski are running those programs -- and those guys aren't going anywhere for a while. Like I wrote this week, I hope Sidney Lowe gets it rolling and keeps his job for all eternity, but there is simply no way to argue that N.C. State is better off now than the day Sendek left for Tempe. So please don't even try. "

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/seth_davis/12/08/mailbag.pittsburgh/index.html

12/9/2010 4:37:49 PM

Quote :

"there is simply no way to argue that N.C. State is better off now than the day Sendek left for Tempe. So please don't even try."

i didn't see that argument. then again he is a columnist, i.e. a professional troll.

Quote :

"Retarded hyperbole aside, what do his most ardent supporters need to see? No NCAA and citing bad luck and next year is exactly the situation we simply have to avoid this go around IMO... Been there, done that."

i'll handle this, since i am certifiably the most ardent lowe supporter here. i want to see a team that looks like it's well coached and plays hard. honestly, i don't put too much stock into just making the tournament, so i don't think it's necessarily a tournament or bust. however, given how shitty the acc is, you really can't have a decent season w/o making the tournament, so i guess it's tournament or bust.

[Edited on December 9, 2010 at 5:10 PM. Reason : <3 u sidney lowe.]

12/9/2010 5:06:17 PM

So, how is arizona state doing these days?

12/9/2010 7:54:21 PM

I don't think I've ever really talked about ol' HS on here before, but why not?:

ASU is 3-4.

Two of the three wins were nail-biters against UAB and Weber State.

And they've only played one top25 team (68-54 loss to #10 Baylor).

That's pretty terrible.

12/9/2010 8:40:58 PM

So, there is a good chance we would be worse off if we had the buddha here?

The chris wright argument is fun. Sendek had a fucking lottery pick at arizona state and couldn't do shit with him (and he had another NBA player in Pendergraph, too.). This douchebag columnist thinks that he would have done something with chris wright other than waste his talents?

The book is closed on Herb. He's had time, he's had talent, he hasn't done shit. What he has done in his career is completely forgettable. All he has are footnotes here and there.

The book is closing on Lowe. He has had time, now he has talent. This year decides whether he stays or goes.

[Edited on December 9, 2010 at 8:48 PM. Reason : .]

12/9/2010 8:46:17 PM

^ i agree with you on everything except the last part.

i think we'll give Lowe more time than just this year to prove success. he's done a lot for this school already -- he gets more time.

12/9/2010 8:56:48 PM

Quote :

"Sendek had taken the Wolfpack to five consecutive NCAA tournaments, losing in the first round just once"

And losing in the 2nd round just thrice

12/9/2010 8:58:05 PM

and it took him until the 6th season to get there.

(i really find no pleasure in bringing up HS. let's drop it.)

12/9/2010 9:16:17 PM