people would complain if we went 12-0, probably because we didn't find a way to win another game in our bye week

12/11/2015 9:48:38 AM

How is our recruiting now compared to the TOB years? Has there been an appreciable difference overall?

12/11/2015 10:18:57 AM

Quote :

"Even splitting Overton and Lawrence with Clemson would be great for us, but pulling both would be a major win for Doeren and Staff."

lolololol that will never happen

12/11/2015 10:27:18 AM

Quote :

"How is our recruiting now compared to the TOB years? Has there been an appreciable difference overall?"

We're doing a much better job in-state and Doeren seems to have a better relationship with HS coaches than TOB ever did

12/11/2015 11:39:10 AM

Quote :

"How is our recruiting now compared to the TOB years? Has there been an appreciable difference overall? "

well in terms of purely raw national rankings, using Rivals...

Doeren's first 4 years

2016: 51
2015: 35
2014: 30
2013: 47 (although, this was the transition year so some of those guys may have originally committed to TOB or the new staff got a late jump...either way, I'd put an asterisk next to this class)

TOB's last 4 years
2012: 53
2011: 87
2010: 34
2009: 52

And for argument's sake, we'll do TOB's first 4 years:
2007: 49
2008: 31
2009: 52
2010: 34

So, based solely on overall rankings, you could argue that there's not a huge difference in recruiting (2011 being the obvious outlier in the TOB years). Although I think some would argue that this staff has made better strides in-state and recruiting better at the skill positions (Frasier, Gallaspy, Hines for example). To be honest, I don't follow recruiting closely enough to know the biggest differences between this staff and TOB's. Does seem like this staff is is much more aggressive overall in recruiting.

12/11/2015 12:28:25 PM

Can we just agree not to use ***'s or rankings for FB recruits? Havent we fully established that FB recruits arent properly evaluated or ranked by these services?

12/11/2015 12:45:21 PM

^yeah i tend to try to judge more based off an offer list than a ranking...a 3* with offers from a buncha MAC schools probably ain't the same as a 3* with a good mix of offers from P5 schools.

in terms of the TOB vs DD debate...it seems like TOB got a lot of guys with less than stellar offer lists and DD's recruiting, based off offer lists, seems to be stronger. but that is hard to quantify and also may just be selective memory on my part.

[Edited on December 11, 2015 at 12:48 PM. Reason : f]

12/11/2015 12:46:53 PM

Quote :

"So, based solely on overall rankings, you could argue that there's not a huge difference in recruiting (2011 being the obvious outlier in the TOB years). Although I think some would argue that this staff has made better strides in-state and recruiting better at the skill positions (Frasier, Gallaspy, Hines for example). To be honest, I don't follow recruiting closely enough to know the biggest differences between this staff and TOB's. Does seem like this staff is is much more aggressive overall in recruiting."

I think comparing each coach's first four years is a better comparison than TOB's last 4. If Doeren experiences a drop-off in recruiting similar to TOB, then some serious red-flags will appear, agreed? Obviously, if his conference record doesn't improve in the upcoming years and his recruiting dips, then he'll be on very thin ice, and I doubt anyone would argue otherwise.

This is why its hard for me to get excited about him. Seeing a rebound in recruiting success with a new coaching staff happens all the time, because it's easy to promise playing time, an upward program trajectory, new culture (this place is unreal, bro!), etc. But once that initial excitement wears off (and it always does), actual on-the-field results begin to matter and carry more weight. And so far, they're not that impressive. It's not going to be easy sustaining any recruiting momentum when we're repeatedly being thumped by FSU, Clemson, and Louisville. Losing to UNC can't be helping within the state, either.

12/11/2015 1:03:05 PM

^yeah hard to argue with anything there. Gotta do better than 3-5 in the acc. That's pretty simple.

12/11/2015 1:08:34 PM

nice article on Bryce Banks

http://www.columbiamissourian.com/sports/prep_sports/rock-bridge-s-banks-draws-from-rough-past-to-build/article_4c7b7b64-8820-11e5-b2db-ebf692e46ce1.html

12/12/2015 11:36:18 PM

So, Lawrence breaks our hearts tomorrow???

12/13/2015 9:17:19 PM

Lawrence announcement this afternoon, seeing either 3 or 3:30.

Both Pack Pride and Tiger Net staff will be in attendance.

Think everyone assumes Clemson with an outside chance that NC State closed ground with the OV this past weekend. This one reminds me a lot of the Bam recruitment.

12/14/2015 10:08:07 AM

I think Dexter wants to go to Clemson and his mom wants him to go to State. So who knows who wins that battle. With that said I think he picks Clemson. After following recruiting for about 15 years I can't think of a time where our insiders had absolutely no idea where the recruit was going and it worked out well for us. Hope I'm wrong though...

12/14/2015 10:24:39 AM

seems like from what i've read, DL really hasn't tipped his hand one way or the other on his decision. so if analysts are predicting clemson it's likely because they are clemson and common sense says a top recruit will choose clemson over state. but based on what i've read on PP and Rivals, it seems pretty much 50/50 with him and his family being pretty tight-lipped.

Quote :

" This one reminds me a lot of the Bam recruitment."

what makes you say that? with bam, everybody assumed we had him in the bag...i don't think we've ever really been considered the favorite to land DL.

[Edited on December 14, 2015 at 10:58 AM. Reason : f]

12/14/2015 10:57:45 AM

Pack pride had a tweet about 30 minutes ago that read "State feels good". It was deleted about 4 minutes after it was posted. Wondering if anybody else saw that or am I just losing my mind? I just happened to be on twitter when I saw it.

They probably don't want to let the cat out of the bag or set state fans up for a disappointing Monday if he picks Clemson (too late). I think several people use Pack Pride's twitter handle.

12/14/2015 11:29:32 AM

Quote :

"what makes you say that? with bam, everybody assumed we had him in the bag...i don't think we've ever really been considered the favorite to land DL."

Early on, we actually were considered the favorite to land DL. When he was visiting over the summer and was attending games before setting up any OVs. I compared it to Bam because we were considered the favorite early because of how hard we were on him and the location factor. Bam made trips to NC State all the time(not quite the same as DL), and most speculated that a major factor would be the player and their family wanting them to stay close to home. Then a premier program comes knocking, and the kid no longer minds being a little further from home.

Obviously more people were saying Bam to NC State than DL, but DL attended almost all home games this year and skipped the Shrine Bowl to visit NC State. Ton of exposure, mother pushing NC State, etc. I guess I could compare this one to Amile Jefferson? Would that be a more accurate comparison?

12/14/2015 11:37:50 AM

yes considering we are in America. If you don't like amile jefferson, you can get the hell out.

12/14/2015 11:42:56 AM

^Agreed. We were considered a heavy favorite for Amile and he almost signed with us in the fall. Ironically I think Kentucky talked him out of signing early. He was really tight lipped and no one had any indication of where he would go. I know the state staff said something like "make sure you are watching the announcement tomorrow" with around 24 hours until the decision. So nobody had a really good idea of where he was leaning until a couple hours before the decision where everyone was hearing a lot of buzz about Duke.

12/14/2015 11:43:29 AM

Quote :

"Early on, we actually were considered the favorite to land DL."

i did not realize that...i haven't followed it that closely until recently. i gotcha now.

12/14/2015 11:53:31 AM

DL to Clemson. Not really surprising.

12/14/2015 3:41:11 PM

12/14/2015 3:41:43 PM

clemson also needs ballerz

12/14/2015 3:41:58 PM

well, fuck that guy

12/14/2015 3:42:40 PM

yeah not too surprising that he'd choose to play for a premier program...oh well

12/14/2015 3:42:53 PM

Quote :

"Early on, we actually were considered the favorite to land DL."

I don't think we were ever the "favorite". We've always had a good chance, but there's never really been a favorite.

If Clemson hadn't balled out (like lost the FSU and Notre Dame games when they were outplayed) and maybe we had played better against Louisville/Vtech, then I think we could have pulled this out.

But we didn't show any improvement and Clemson is undefeated and #1 in the country. And this kid is so good, that playing time doesn't even matter.

Makes sense.

12/14/2015 3:53:40 PM

We were never the favorite. The early team for Lawrence was Florida, then Clemson came in strong. For a short time we looked pretty good but then it became obvious that we sucked and Clemson was #1 in the country and well...

12/14/2015 5:04:01 PM

^UF was his favorite team growing up, but he was never going to Florida, too far from home. None of the hats he had on that stage outside of NC State or Clemson had a chance.

His mom has been pushing NC State since Day 1. He attended a ton of NC state games, loves our coaches, but we aren't "big time football". Last year we landed the top in-state guys(Roseboro, Hines, Frasier) only AFTER we made a big turn-around and nice finish to the season. This year the wins just weren't there to reel in a big fish like Lawrence.

I mean yeah Lawrence is a huge talent, major target for us to land, but realistically, who's place does he take in the starting rotation next year? BJ Hill? Very unlikely given the season he just had. Street? Maybe, but also unlikely given his experience and potential.

Our only recruiting pitches were that we were close to home, his mother liked us, he liked our coaches, and he had a lot of friends from his HS attending NC State. If he was from any other state, we wouldn't have been in his top 10.

12/14/2015 7:26:43 PM

^Ummm he would start from day 1 if he came to state.

12/14/2015 8:45:21 PM

he's really really good. i guess the point is, the silver lining of losing out on Lawrence is that DLine isn't a position of need for us. we're pretty deep there. but yeah, still sucks not to get him.

12/14/2015 8:51:26 PM

Quote :

"I mean yeah Lawrence is a huge talent, major target for us to land, but realistically, who's place does he take in the starting rotation next year? BJ Hill? Very unlikely given the season he just had. Street? Maybe, but also unlikely given his experience and potential."

Quote :

"Our only recruiting pitches were that we were close to home, his mother liked us, he liked our coaches, and he had a lot of friends from his HS attending NC State. If he was from any other state, we wouldn't have been in his top 10."

so? we barely missed on a top 5 recruit, who would have EASILY been the best football recruit we've ever gotten and you're picking apart the reasons why?

12/14/2015 9:22:53 PM

^ I mean, this is a message board thread dedicated to picking apart football recruiting dawg.

12/15/2015 3:15:02 PM

I think Lawrence is a huge talent, definitely going to be a play-maker before he leaves Clemson, but do you really think we could guarantee him immediate PT? DL is easily our deepest spot on our team with actual talent.

BJ Hill just earned multiple 1st Team All-ACC awards on various sites. As a freshman he was voted our defensive rookie of the year, and he just came off a season with 47 Tackles, 11 TFL, and 3.5 sacks. No way you can tell DL he's going to start over him.

Could he have won the other DT spot? Possibly, but it's not like we don't have 4* and 5* players playing DT some this year. Justin Jones was a 4* DT/DE out of high school, and Street was a 5* DE that played some DT and DE this year.

Just because a player is a 5* doesn't mean they're an automatic starter. We just signed a 5* RB last year and redshirted him given the talent we had ahead of him on the depth chart.

We never would have redshirted Lawrence, I think he would have been an early contributor, but I think we would have worked him into the DT rotation as he got up to speed with the college game.

Clemson on the other hand, has a senior DT that is graduating with an immediate spot available, but they had a 5* FR come in last year's class with a year in the program. Lawrence might not even win the starting spot there.

The #1 DE(5*) and #1 DT(5) in last year's class weren't starters this year. It's rare that true freshmen OL/DL come in and start from day 1.

12/16/2015 8:31:40 AM

yes i think we could guarantee him immediate playing time.

12/16/2015 8:53:34 AM

Hell ya he would get "playing time"

Maybe not a starter, but the big fellas get tired and thus DTs are a prime spot to rotate several players

12/16/2015 9:50:56 AM

^^^neither street nor Frasier were 5*, and they certainly weren't top 5 in the nation. There are no sure things but to act like we didn't need him is crazy, especially when Clemson pulled out all the stops to get him

Plus losing him to Clemson is doubly bad bc now we have to block him every year

[Edited on December 16, 2015 at 10:57 AM. Reason : A]

12/16/2015 10:56:12 AM

The ole standby "we didnt want him anyways"

12/16/2015 10:57:28 AM

I'm not saying we didn't want DL or that he won't be a monster player, we obviously did, our coaches recruited him since their first season here when he was an underclassmen.

We could offer him PT, but it's not like Overton where we really don't have anyone at WR that he can't beat out for a starting spot next year. Lawrence would actually have some people to compete against, and like I said, he was 100% play next year, I meant start.

^^False. Street and Frasier were both 5*'s on at least one site during their senior season. Whether or not they ended there, or were a consensus 5*, is a different talking point.

I mean if you want compare one service versus another, DL is #1 DT and #2 overall player on rivals, but he's the #3 DT and not even a top 5 player on ESPN.

I hate losing him to an ACC opponent for sure, this is the guy you want going to the SEC and hear about him getting drafted in the first round in 3 years but never have to face him.

Based on what I've read, seems like DL didn't even want to take an OV to us but his mom convinced him to hoping we could sway him to stay home. So sounds like we weren't really even in this one for the last several weeks.

12/16/2015 12:23:02 PM

Unfortunately, K Street is just an avg football player even though he was ranked so high. Roseboro, on the other hand, is gonna be a problem.

12/16/2015 4:03:47 PM

I haven't given up on Street just yet. He's shown flashes and had games where he was a force, but I think the coaches aren't helping him out by switching his position so much.

You bring in a guy, play him a full Freshman year at DE, shows some upside but isn't consistent.
Then for his second year you move him to DT, once again, shows some upside but isn't consistent.
Now before his bowl game, after playing DT all year, he shows up on the depth chart as a back-up DE.

I love having guys that can play multiple positions, but he's shown flashes that he can be good at both DT and DE, but he needs to stay in one position and get consistently good at that position. He has the physical tools to be a monster, just need to work on his technique and teach him a few moves to go with his power game. Right now he's more of the "Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane" mold.

12/17/2015 8:20:38 AM

Will Grier?

12/19/2015 11:29:16 PM

He'll transfer here and amid all the shit talk from rival fans about his past, he'll still be a bust

[Edited on December 19, 2015 at 11:33 PM. Reason : Doeren would be a god if he landed him though]

12/19/2015 11:33:25 PM

Doeren would have to last another year and a half to use him

12/20/2015 8:09:45 AM

Overton to Clemson

1/3/2016 10:07:11 PM

THAT IS SHOCKING

was even more obv considering we fired our OC today. Id expect the same from a lot of guys yet to decide

1/3/2016 10:10:17 PM

our early enrollees look to be

Dylan Autenrieth (TE)
Bryce Banks (CB)
Bryce Dixon (TE)
Bryce Folsom (OL)
Connor Haskins (K)
Garrett Hooker (LB)
Dylan Parham (QB)
David Pierson (LB)
Matt Stevens (LB)
Justin Witt (OL)

http://www.backingthepack.com/nc-state-football/2016/1/8/10734714/nc-state-early-enrollees-college-football-recruiting

believe a couple of those are walkons

1/8/2016 8:14:04 AM

thad moss announces his final 4...not sure when he'll announce, probably closer to NSD

State
TAMU
UCLA
Southern Cal

1/8/2016 2:06:19 PM

Prolly chooses Southern Cal, especially given AM trainwreck.

1/8/2016 3:02:19 PM

Think it's us or USC. Think Grinnage leaving helps, also think changing OC's will help. Will be curious to see if we land an OC before he is ready to commit, because I'm sure Doeren is telling him we're going to find an OC to throw the ball more.

1/9/2016 9:53:55 AM

WR chavis dawkins announces today

he listed his final four as

State
Louisville
Wake
App State

but i read somewhere that SCar may have offered late and mucked things up for us a bit...who knows.

1/9/2016 9:55:56 AM

Muschamp can't really sell anything to a WR considering how horrible his offenses were at UF. Maybe he can play the SEC card.

1/9/2016 1:09:47 PM