Quote :

"do you see them in practice every day? do you see how hard they work on their own time? do you see which players pick up concepts and plays quicker than others? do you see which players in practice have better chemistry with each other on different ends of the court in different situations? do you see which players are willing to put in the extra time and effort? do you see which players goof around together off the court and build that repoire? cause if all we're doing is watching the games and basing everything on that, whereas Sid (Herb, Les, V, etc) sees the guys every day...maybe he knows a little more about how to use them then we do"

Might as well get rid of Sports Talk then...

12/10/2010 3:02:16 PM

Along with every sports radio show in the country

Maybe you're onto something here TT

12/10/2010 3:11:10 PM

it would prevent me from having to hear or see a bunch of idiots' dumbass opinions

btw there are plenty of good times/places/ways to share good opinions

but a 193 page thread on a coach's credibility is not a good example of that

12/10/2010 3:33:19 PM

Substitution patterns are a pretty ridiculous thing to debate. For all the reasons that jbrick gave I was able to give clear counter arguments. The truth of the matter is there is tons of information that goes into the decision of who gets playing time and fans have access to almost none of it.

12/10/2010 4:03:56 PM

You're acting like the complaining is unwarranted. 90 percent of watching sports is complaining. About the players, about the plays, about the coaches, about how much money they make, about how much your seat costs, about the refs, about the timeouts, about the commercials, etc.

If it wasn't for complaining, none of us would really have that much to say.

12/10/2010 4:04:46 PM

But if we didn't suck, we'd have much less to complain about

A vicious cycle, I tell you

12/10/2010 4:05:39 PM

Quote :

"But if we didn't suck, we'd have much less to complain about"

Actually...I normally avoid the boards for a little while after bad losses. It's hard to do it in basketball because there are several games a week and when we're not doing well (pretty much my entire adult life), then I would have to avoid them all together.

But I completely quit Packpride when Sendek was resigning (although I've recently gotten roped back in with the UNC investigations). And I had been a frequent poster on there since high school when it was accboards.com, then branched off into statefans, then finally to Packpride (I feel like I might be missing a transition or two there).

Usually the idiots keep me away (I avoid these boards for a day or two after football losses). But I love coming here and scouring espn.com and cnnsi.com after wins. It makes me warm and happy inside.

12/10/2010 4:22:36 PM

The game threads here have to be taken with a huge grain of salt. Realize that the live posting that occurs in the 3.5 hour block that the game is taking place in is just a small sample of our fan base, the people who enjoy watching the games by themselves in front of a computer. Those people are naturally going to be more caustic than the average poster who doesn't live and die with each possession. Generalizing the TWW Sports Talk community as a collective hive mind of rage and contempt based on those few dozen individuals is a mistake on your part.

12/10/2010 4:26:44 PM

TWW game threads are great if you're looking for a place where 200 strangers are bitching about the refs costing us the game

12/10/2010 4:29:43 PM

Quote :

"The game threads here have to be taken with a huge grain of salt."

I actually like to participate in the game threads to make fun of how poorly the team is playing and the dumb fans going crazy in the thread. I enjoy telling people how the ref made the right call and they react like you just shot their dog.

Then once we lose, I get off the intranetz and go drink beers and sleep with wimenz.

12/10/2010 4:39:14 PM

Quote :

"Then once we lose, I get off the intranetz and go drink beers and sleep with wimenz."

so tuff.

12/10/2010 8:55:14 PM

Quote :

"Substitution patterns are a pretty ridiculous thing to debate. "

how so? that is one of only about 3 things a coach can control during a game. plays, TO's and sub patterns. subs have a huge effect on the flow of the game and hte best coaches handle it well.

12/10/2010 9:30:55 PM

If you read the entirety of my most I think that statement is pretty clearly defended.

Quote :

"Substitution patterns are a pretty ridiculous thing to debate. For all the reasons that jbrick gave I was able to give clear counter arguments. The truth of the matter is there is tons of information that goes into the decision of who gets playing time and fans have access to almost none of it."

12/11/2010 9:00:19 AM

Quote :

"I enjoy telling people how the ref made the right call and they react like you just shot their dog."

I do the same thing. I really try to avoid them, but sometimes I'm working on something on the computer during a game and have TWW up.

Really, I used to be one of those people when it came to State or even Duke, but I think I've matured to the point of realizing that a) calls will even out for a team of our stature over the year; and b) elite programs like Duke, UNC, Michigan State, UCLA, UConn, Kansas, Kentucky, etc will always get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to calls...

[Edited on December 11, 2010 at 9:04 AM. Reason : i'm able to be pretty objective (jaybee style) at this point in other words]

12/11/2010 9:03:49 AM

LOL why would we want that Pearl guy?

12/11/2010 6:50:47 PM

^^^you do realize that sometimes coaches have to make decisions based on the way the players are playing in the game, right? Just b/c we dont see practice, workouts, etc, doesnt mean we cant see that hte subs are almost random. sid loves to take a guy that is heating up and sit him on the bench. he did this to costner tons in costner's last year. he'll bench a guy that has been playing well and then wont put him back in for 10 min of gametime.

i dont have specific examples this year except to say that anyone who watches the games can tell there is no set sub pattern for each game and that the subs also seemingly have nothing to do w/ the flow of the game.

12/11/2010 6:57:27 PM

Pretty much 95% of this board saw that Tracy Smith should have been starting as a sophomore and it took Sid until about 10 games to go in the season before he did that. Not coincidentally we started playing better. Substitutions have been one of the main weaknesses of Lowe's coaching.

12/11/2010 6:59:26 PM

Quote :

"sid loves to take a guy that is heating up and sit him on the bench."

i'm sure he has no reason for this other than him heating up. i think its because he thinks that the player will overheat if he gets too hot. i think that sid thinks his players are like cars in this regard. you should tell him that his players are not cars.

12/11/2010 7:04:34 PM

The average fan who thinks that they know about substitutions.
A. Only watches the players on one side of the court (aka if they are scoring they don't care if they are getting victimized on the other end)
B. Has no access to information from practice
C. Doesn't realize what set plays are being run and if a player is running them correctly
D. Has no access to information on what they are focusing on in practice, who is performing well, who is being punished for being a punk.
Yet somehow we are supposed to trust their opinions over someone who has access to ALL of that information.
You are also probably the guy who was sitting behind me screaming about how Howell should be in instead of Painter even though they play COMPLETELY DIFFERENT POSITIONS.

Smith earning the starting job had nothing to do with scoring it had everything to do with him learning how to play defense and rebound on the defensive end. As a freshman he showed he was a hell of a scorer but it took him a long time to learn how to not get victimized in the post by bigger centers playing over him.

12/11/2010 7:35:47 PM

Smith was a terrible defender.

12/11/2010 7:54:19 PM

you guys are the biggest bunch of faggots on the planet, period.

We have an all american NOT PLAYING and all i see is how experienced and deep and talented we are.

Newsflash, we aren't talented with Tracy out we have Painter and Vandenburg filling in his minutes.

Eat a dick all of you. If Tracy comes back healthy we are a good team again, if he doesn't we are just an average team. You are so unrealistic that it makes me wonder if you'll ever get pussy in your life.

12/12/2010 2:57:37 AM

^Smith isn't an all-american. He's all-ACC.

^^Smith isn't a terrible defender, just very average. He used to be terrible, but last season he went from terrible to average.

Quote :

"Pretty much 95% of this board saw that Tracy Smith should have been starting as a sophomore and it took Sid until about 10 games to go in the season before he did that. Not coincidentally we started playing better. Substitutions have been one of the main weaknesses of Lowe's coaching."

The problem with starting Smith his sophomore year is that he was a terrible free throw shooter and a terrible defender. Sure he was and is a very talented offensive player, but unless you score everytime you touch the ball you have to be able to stop someone.

and re: substituions, they usually make sense. players generally come out after they make a couple stupid plays, after they are getting tired, or to give a different look when we're not being successful. you might think they're stupid, but you don't have access to the info sidney does, and sidney knows a LOT more about basketball than you.


[Edited on December 12, 2010 at 3:18 AM. Reason : asdf]

12/12/2010 3:13:42 AM

All I want to say is that I, like everyone else, can't wait for Tracy to come back. There are numerous reasons why his return is a good thing but the #1 reason for me is so Vandenburg gets fewer minutes. That guy is just absolute garbage.

12/12/2010 10:06:13 AM

Wasted scholarship. Someone mentioned that Fab Melo is awful, and right now he is... but the difference is he has raw talent and athleticism that can translate in to basketball production.

I'm 100% convinced the ONLY reason Vandenburg would ever be offered a basketball scholarship at any level is because he is tall. He has zero skill, bad hands, he isn't athletic and he doesn't know the game very well. I really try not to get on student athletes (coaches are a different story since they make so much money), but it's hard to see how he'll ever develop in to something more than a guy who comes in against low-majors and scares them because of his height.

** And is there a more tired argument than "ABC knows more than you" and "ABC has inside information you can't have." As has been said, if discussions (which aside from boozie and his playmate have been very civil this year) are going to deteriorate to that kind of response, we may as well close down the forum..

[Edited on December 12, 2010 at 10:17 AM. Reason : x]

12/12/2010 10:15:22 AM

I hope however Vandenburg is available the next couple of games. I don't want Smith's return to be rushed in any way. He needs to be healthy by the time ACC play gets here. I will also be surprised if Smith is playing much in the PF position as was talked about over the summer. I think everyone would agree with Leslie and Howell available at PF that position is in much better shape than the Painter Vandy options at Center.
I was perusing the ACC stats page and saw that Harrow is leading the ACC in assist to turnover ratio. One stat that surprised me is he leads the team in shots taken which may be an explanation of why Lowe sits him. Listening to Lowe's post game press conference he talked about how happy he was with Harrow yesterday getting the rest of his team involved. It sounded like a point of emphasis for him in Harrow's development. Javi will continue to get minutes simply because he is a better shooter (who would have thought that seeing him as a freshman) and defender than Harrow.

12/12/2010 11:13:43 AM

I hope Javi isn't backing down and conceding the PG competition. That would be a pussy move and one that we do not need. Competition is good. Stepping up when harrow is having a bad spell is good.

12/12/2010 11:33:20 AM

I'm sure that's what's going on.

12/12/2010 11:42:52 AM

Smith very likely would have been a 3rd team All-American (or better) this year without the injury. Realistically, he probably was one last year he just didn't get the attention because of our poor record.

12/12/2010 12:31:33 PM

^^^what are you even talking about? what makes you think javi is "conceding" the pg position? he just doesn't posses the talent ryan has.

12/12/2010 12:45:50 PM

george mason is up to 45th now so hopefully they keep rolling because that can serve as a quality OOC win for us potentially.

I'm not sure whether to be happy or mad that Arizona got rolled yesterday by BYU. On one hand it takes away some luster if we win but on the other hand it shows this is a winnable game for us. I think we need the win more than the luster so I'll take it.

Our defense is now ranked #100 in the nation that is freaking terrible and we aren't getting in if that doesn't improve drastically. I think Tracy will help us a good bit there because he's clearly better than Painter/Vandy at that end but we need the rest of the team to really step it up there.

All this Richard Howell hate is mind boggling to me. He's 8th in the nation in offensive rebounding rate and his overall offensive rating is #291 in the country. When Tracy gets back it will free things up for him and you'll start to see him flourish like he did in ACC play last year.

12/12/2010 1:06:30 PM

Who's hating on Howell?

12/12/2010 1:08:14 PM

Quote :

"Eat a dick all of you. If Tracy comes back healthy we are a good team again, if he doesn't we are just an average team. You are so unrealistic that it makes me wonder if you'll ever get pussy in your life."

you are such a bad troll it makes me wonder if you'll ever get pussy in your life.

what a ridiculous comparison to make. "If you dont agree with me that Tracy Smith is an all-american player, then you arent being realistic, and consequently, you'll never have sex in your life".

Worst troll ever

^the voices in his head are hating on Howell apparently. I dont think a single person has talked shit about Howell in this thread

[Edited on December 12, 2010 at 1:15 PM. Reason : adsf]

12/12/2010 1:13:09 PM

Quote :

"I'm not sure whether to be happy or mad that Arizona got rolled yesterday by BYU. On one hand it takes away some luster if we win but on the other hand it shows this is a winnable game for us. I think we need the win more than the luster so I'll take it. "

As someone who has already watched several UofA games so far, that game worries the hell out of me...with or without Tracy.

The key to winning is to get Derrick Williams in to foul trouble early and limiting their open looks from 3. Williams is a double-double waiting to happen, and legit All-American candidate, but he loves to reach and slap when his man beats him.

12/12/2010 1:16:59 PM

there has been a lot of hate on howell all year in all of the threads.

We aren't a good team without Tracy. We're okay, as in 6-10ish maybe 7-9 in the conference.

Why is everyone freaking out that THIS IS THE YEAR.

Yeah, with Tracy this was the year. Without him it's not.

When he comes back you can objectively evaluate our team but while he's out let's face it we're one of the most inexperienced teams in the nation and we aren't THAT talented.

You can't just take a guy that's head and shoulders better than everyone on the team, remove him, and expect us to be good. Be realistic.

12/12/2010 2:18:49 PM

I like Howell, a lot.

I know he's a big guy, but I'd be curious to see his vertical #s.

12/12/2010 2:39:50 PM

bump

12/16/2010 7:25:24 PM

Jesus tittyfucking Christ. Patience.

12/16/2010 7:27:54 PM

12/16/2010 7:29:04 PM

well done

12/16/2010 7:36:43 PM

Sid doesn't know how to sub in these freshman. His substitution system has been criticized through out his tenure.

12/16/2010 7:38:11 PM

i'm officially out of support for him

lowe must go

12/16/2010 7:43:08 PM

Even if we come back and win this game, which we fucking should, I don't see how anyone can defend this.

12/16/2010 7:43:51 PM

you know i dont always seen eye to eye with you boozie but you're right

fucking inexcusable

and anyone who compares this to st johns just remember that at least st johns was mediocre

12/16/2010 7:44:45 PM

Quote :

"Patience."

lol

12/16/2010 7:47:56 PM

I already scream Mo Must Go at hockey games, I might as well scream Lowe Must Go at State games. RBC Center might start banning me soon.

12/16/2010 7:48:34 PM

been telling you assholes this for years

12/16/2010 7:49:24 PM

It doesn't look like there are any planned offensive sets. Very few planned defensive sets.

Tell Yow to get Tubby Smith on the line or something. Minnesota can't be all that fun.

12/16/2010 7:51:36 PM

Quote :

"been telling you assholes this for years"

But, but, but Lowe knows more about basketball than we do.

12/16/2010 7:52:53 PM

Quote :

"and anyone who compares this to st johns just remember that at least st johns was mediocre "

Not that it matters, but they were terrible

Finished 11th out 12 in the Big East, 9-18, 3-13

12/16/2010 7:53:00 PM

Ernie, this is a bottom of the Horizon League team not some shit Big East team.

This loss would be worse than losing to ECU and New Orleans.

12/16/2010 7:54:41 PM