you can't lose something you never had.

12/20/2010 10:30:23 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdAZNc0AbQg

12/20/2010 10:44:36 AM

Good Point. It should be, "Don't Know What You Have (Until It's Gone)."

My stance is to give credit where credit is due.

Recruiting - Credit
Individual Player Improvement - Credit
Well Run Offense - No Credit
Well Run Defense - No Credit

Teams that have inferior talent can win games with great execution on individual possessions. You can have all the talent in the world but if possessions end up with one-on-one awkward shots and turnovers, you'll lose a lot of games. This is where Sid falls short. Unless he kills it during conference play, I can't see why Yow would retain him as Head Coach.

12/20/2010 10:58:19 AM

Is it completely impossible for Leslie & Howell to play at the same time? Howell clearly > Painter / Vandy

That's probably already been stated somewhere.

That in and of itself = lack of credibility

12/20/2010 11:02:42 AM

Howell is incapable of playing defense on a Center. Leslie is incapable of playing defense on a center.
End of discussion.
Also I am assuming you would have Leslie and PF who would back him up? You already have Howell out there starting at Center so he isn't an option.

Quote :

"My stance is to give credit where credit is due. Recruiting - Credit Individual Player Improvement - Credit Well Run Offense - No Credit Well Run Defense - No Credit "

Well run offense- some credit. You aren't seeing the last second heaves where no one is open. Most of our shots are actually good shots which is about all you can ask for especially when our most vital piece for creating offense against set defenses is missing. Can you imagine what players capable of driving (like Brown) will be able to do when we have a viable option at Center.


[Edited on December 20, 2010 at 11:10 AM. Reason : adsf]

[Edited on December 20, 2010 at 11:12 AM. Reason : adf]

12/20/2010 11:07:20 AM

Its nice to see people on this board not going insane over Lowe like they are elsewhere. We got fucked when Tracy went down, and IMO we might not make the tourney now, but if we finish with a respectable 9 or 10 acc win season but still miss the tournament we can't fire the guy.


I've been saying tourney or bust for Lowe this season since before last year, but that was considering we'd have Smith in the lineup. Now, I'd be ok with top half of the acc considering the circumstance. If we continue this play the rest of the season, I'll be in favor of going another direction. Lot of games left.

[Edited on December 20, 2010 at 11:09 AM. Reason : ]

12/20/2010 11:08:41 AM

there is no way this team will be at the top of the ACC. I thought so before the season, but after watching the games I just don't see it.

12/20/2010 11:10:15 AM

Can we fire him after we go 5-11 then? Please?

12/20/2010 11:11:33 AM

Quote :

"Howell clearly > Painter"

wut???

Howell does one thing well; rebound. He's complete ineffective on offense. Painter is improving all the time. He starting to show an offensive rhythm and can hold his own on defense. This is a vast improvement from last year.

Quote :

"Well run offense- some credit."

Well run offenses don't go on 10 minute scoring droughts every game. Seriously, we have huge chunks of time where all five guys play like Harrison Barnes.

[Edited on December 20, 2010 at 11:16 AM. Reason : again]

12/20/2010 11:13:08 AM

Except Howell can finish around the basket. Which means he's not completely ineffective on offense

12/20/2010 11:17:14 AM

Quote :

"Howell does one thing well; rebound. He's complete ineffective on offense. Painter is improving all the time."

Howell: 7.9 PPG, 54%
Painter: 6.2 PPG, 42%

12/20/2010 11:24:20 AM

Quote :

"Well run offenses don't go on 10 minute scoring droughts every game. Seriously, we have huge chunks of time where all five guys play like Harrison Barnes. "

our longest scoring drought was 4 minutes during that time brown missed a layup and leslie missed a FT (fairly high percentage shots I think most would agree) hardly sounds like a poorly run offense to me.

Quote :

" Howell: 7.9 PPG, 54% Painter: 6.2 PPG, 42%"

COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. HOWELL CAN NOT DEFEND CENTERS AND THEN YOU WOULD HAVE NO ONE TO BACK UP LESLIE AT PF. I feel like I said this already. OH WAIT I DID!

A little dose of reality here:
When practice started we had a healthy Tracy Smith. I think it is reasonable to assume that Tracy Smith was the focal point of our offense. Tracy gets injured Lowe has had to completely change the sets that these players and has to put pressure on the freshman to at times carry the team. To make this worse there has been a perpetual cock tease of Tracy Smith coming back meaning you just get through the next couple games and Smith will be back and then it is back to your system.
A pretty shitty situation which is why I am waiting until I see a healthy Tracy Smith on the floor to pass judgement.

12/20/2010 11:36:59 AM

I'm going to wait untitil ACC play before i completely write off lowe and this season.

There's still plenty of basketball to be played fellas.

12/20/2010 11:39:00 AM

^^ Turn off the caps lock and take a look at who I quoted, genius.

12/20/2010 11:52:38 AM

^^ 2 points in 6 minutes isn't much better Mr. Semantics.

12/20/2010 11:52:40 AM

Why would you write him off now we have the #331 experienced team in the nation and we've hung tough in 2.5 of 4 tough games, beat a good george mason team, and have won all of our games against inferior teams with a fair amount of decisiveness.

All of the freshman (including harrow) show a lot of potential to be all conference players. Why would you want to risk losing them?

Why risk losing uchebo and our other commits? Didn't you see what happened last time? Do you really want to start all over again when we've finally built a solid basketball program?

Sid has shown he has a great offensive system, our defense has lacked while he's been here but we've also had third rate defenders like horner and costner who have drug us down.

What the fuck is wrong with you people?

12/20/2010 11:59:05 AM

Quote :

"Sid has shown he has a great offensive system"

this is a joke right.

12/20/2010 12:01:59 PM

Quote :

"Is it completely impossible for Leslie & Howell to play at the same time? Howell clearly > Painter / Vandy That's probably already been stated somewhere. That in and of itself = lack of credibility"

And somehow it's the Lowe supporters that sound dumb

12/20/2010 12:13:42 PM

Quote :

"^^ Turn off the caps lock and take a look at who I quoted, genius."

Do you not understand the meaning of irrelevant genius? That information is irrelevant because the whole premise is retarded.

Quote :

"^^ 2 points in 6 minutes isn't much better Mr. Semantics."

Again as I stated before how many missed layups and free throws? If you are put in position by the offense to shoot free throws or a layup and you miss it I think that falls on player error and not an "offensive system" issue. I could understand being pissed off if we had a bunch of near shot clock violations and last second desperation shots HOWEVER the reality is the team missed a ton of open shots and missed a bunch of layups and put backs.

12/20/2010 12:16:36 PM

howell is def better than painter and vandenberg. he and smith played together all the time last year and neither of them is a center or a good defender. howell absolutely could have played center yesterday considering that arizona's center is 6'8".

12/20/2010 12:16:42 PM

Oh my fucking god. SMITH PLAYED CENTER.
Second point: In practice Howell has been playing PF. He has practiced all of our offensive and defensive plays at the PF position. Unless there are injuries or serious foul trouble you try and avoid having players play out of position. Also if you played Leslie and Howell at the same time who would back up the PF position. Would you have Vandy and Painter in at the same time? Or have Wood or Williams play PF? Seriously you must see how stupid this is.

12/20/2010 12:23:27 PM

Quote :

"HOWELL CAN NOT DEFEND CENTERS"

Well, I mean, if we're going there, neither can Tracy.

None of our bigs really defend well.

12/20/2010 12:24:10 PM

Quote :

"That information is irrelevant because the whole premise is retarded."

That information was addressing the comment stating how Howell was completely ineffective at offense and how Painter was better. I was demonstrating with statistics that it wasn't the case.

So no, it wasn't irrelevant to what I was addressing.

You are stating that Painter plays center. Thanks, we all know that.

12/20/2010 12:28:15 PM

So now Vandenburg = our defensive prowess! lol

Quote :

"Why risk losing uchebo and our other commits? Didn't you see what happened last time? Do you really want to start all over again when we've finally built a solid basketball program?"

What a troll post this is.

12/20/2010 12:29:25 PM

i don't see why that's anymore trollish than almost everyone of your posts.

i foresee having to almost start again if lowe was fired after this year.

of course, i don't think we'll have to worry about that.

12/20/2010 12:33:52 PM

Here is a great idea! Lets have Nate Irving play running back he looks fast.
This is about how retarded the entire premise of your argument sounds.

12/20/2010 12:34:23 PM

Quote :

"i foresee having to almost start again if lowe was fired after this year."

Ohh noes our next coach might not lead us to the NIT!!!

At what ACC school could Lowe keep his job after this year if he finishes around 6-10 again? Serious question.

12/20/2010 12:37:25 PM

We're not 6-10 yet

Just wanna throw that out there

12/20/2010 12:38:26 PM

yet

12/20/2010 12:39:08 PM

Right, let's wait for the season to play out until we act like retards

Or are you guys incapable of suppressing your retard tendencies

12/20/2010 12:40:46 PM

do you really realistically think we'll do better than 6-10?

12/20/2010 12:46:01 PM

^^Obviously not given the Howell should be playing center argument that is prevalent on two topics
^Given that our best player only played in the exhibition game I think it is impossible to say.

[Edited on December 20, 2010 at 12:47 PM. Reason : adfaf]

12/20/2010 12:46:14 PM

Quote :

"do you really realistically think we'll do better than 6-10?"

Probably not considering what we've seen so far. But there's a (slim) chance with Tracy back we can turn things around.

I'm definitely willing to give Sid a fair shot as far as the rest of the season goes. Getting up in arms now doesn't serve much of a purpose. That's all I'm saying.

12/20/2010 12:47:58 PM

Quote :

"do you really realistically think we'll do better than 6-10?"

I realistically think there's not way to realistically make a prediction about that right now, before conference play has started, before we know the status of our best player. Really.

(Actually, i bet we will finish better than 6-10.)

12/20/2010 12:49:14 PM

vs Wake Forest
@ BC
@ FSU
vs Duke
vs Miami
@ Clemson
@ UNC
vs Virginia Tech
@ Duke
@ Wake Forest
vs Clemson
@ Maryland
vs UNC
vs Georgia Tech
@ Virginia
vs FSU

I see 3 sure wins (WF, @WF, GT), 6 sure losses (@FSU, Duke, @Duke, UNC, @UNC, @MD), and the rest toss-ups.

12/20/2010 12:49:53 PM

That's great, man

12/20/2010 12:50:33 PM

cool bro.

i bet you we win at least one that you're claiming a "sure loss". i bet you.

12/20/2010 12:55:34 PM

I wish I could be positive about a team 0-4 against ACC level competition.

We are currently 55th in the RPI but that's going to take a hit. Our next 3 opponents (Delaware St, Alabama A&M, San Diego) have won 2 Division I games all together.

12/20/2010 1:00:18 PM

To be fair, 3, maybe 4 of those teams would probably be top tier ACC teams this year, and we played them without our best player. Didn't compete in only one.


Once again, I'm not saying we're going to turn it around with Tracy, and I'm not even defending Lowe at this point, but I'm not gonna sit here and ask for the coach to be fired mid season because we've lost 4 games to 4 really good teams without our best player.

12/20/2010 1:08:39 PM

itt we list players on our team who can defend centers:

12/20/2010 1:10:26 PM

Quote :

"All of the freshman (including harrow) show a lot of potential to be all conference players. Why would you want to risk losing them? Why risk losing uchebo and our other commits? Didn't you see what happened last time? Do you really want to start all over again when we've finally built a solid basketball program?"

Why would they transfer? They all want to get to the NBA as quickly as possible, and them transferring and having to sit out a year isn't going to do anything but delay that. And now that we have a competent AD we could probably keep our recruits (especially Uchebo) through a coaching change. This doomsday scenario you're predicting is problematic on a number of levels. And even if we were to lose a few recruits, a middle of the road recruiting class is not a good enough reason to keep a shitty coach around in perpetuity.

12/20/2010 1:10:59 PM

Whoever said that Painter could hold his own on defense needs to seriously go back and watch him get burned in all of our 4 losses, particularly last night. Dude was getting had by a fucking pick and roll all night. He let his man beat him over and over. He can't even block, either. Vandy has one more block than him this season in double the minutes. Painter is a horrendous defender.

And on offense, look at what he has produced in our games that were losses. Against competition, he absolutely shits the bed. He's a one trick pony. Dance around the key, and shoot a semi-fade away hook shot. I don't think I've seen him go up strong once this season. All of that, and the fact that he has no concept of kicking the ball back out.

I think people have gotten too hung up in the one or two games where he made some nice shots against shitty opponents. I guarantee that if Vandy got as many touches as Painter against those good teams, that the difference in ppg would be negligible. Problem is, they never get the ball to Vandy when he's open, or 1v1 with his man, and let him try and make a move to either score or pass. When he does get the ball, it's usually when he's fairly heavily covered, and it's a guard ditching the ball to him inside, and he's not really expecting it. Sure, he should be...but when he's not getting the ball when he's open, he gets thrown off by getting the ball when he's covered.

Too many people are put off by his goofiness on the court, and just default to "well, we gotta start Painter, cause Vandy isn't an option".

12/20/2010 1:21:46 PM

the uber recruits are already in our program. that job is done. if they leave then so be it. leslie and brown aren't going to be long for our campus anyway

uchebo and lewis are solid guys but neither project as program changers. they're solid howell-types if they pan out. if we lose them it sucks but provided we make a good hire the new guy should be able to get players like that

uva and bc both look to be as good as us or better than us and both of them had their roster gutted as a result of their coaching transition

[Edited on December 20, 2010 at 1:26 PM. Reason : given what we know about uchebo's recruitment I doubt he's going elsewhere]

12/20/2010 1:23:48 PM

can we wait to get a little further into the season?

12/20/2010 1:33:35 PM

If we ditch Sid at the end of the year, I want a coach who is good enough, and has enough respect from our players that no one leaves. I'm also not really concerned about our incoming recruits, as I don't think they were as attached to Sid like our freshman were.

I'm most worried about CJL, as Sid (in my mind) benched him for way too long on several occasions, and you can just see it in his face and body language that he hates losing, and hates not being on the court to try and turn things around. Makes me worried that he regrets his decision to be here, and wouldn't mind the opportunity to jump ship.

EDIT: I should also add that I want a coach who can actually stress the importance of free throws. Yesterday, even when it wasn't at a crucial time in the game, them sinking FTs was so demoralizing. Every time I would think "good foul!", it ended up not mattering, because they made 'em both at the line. The only healthy person on our team right now willing to go up strong (Howell) is a terrible FT shooter. I swear, Sid misses out on so many fundamentals.

[Edited on December 20, 2010 at 1:45 PM. Reason : -]

12/20/2010 1:34:46 PM

can we wait to get a little further into the season?

12/20/2010 2:02:41 PM

why? The Lowe apologists will just say "wait till after next season" after this season comes to it's inevitable, unsatisfying conclusion .

12/20/2010 2:04:48 PM

why? b/c acc play hasn't started, we'll hopefully be getting our best player back soon. i just think it's a little early to give-up on the season. that's my opinion. perhaps you think you know how the season will pan out, but i think its way too early.

12/20/2010 2:07:38 PM

We've been hearing "be patient" for 5 fucking years, and I, for one, am tired of it. Some of you are so paralyzed by fear and indecision that you would keep Lowe for 20 years with nothing to show for it and be content, because the unknown is more scary to you than guaranteed mediocrity.

[Edited on December 20, 2010 at 2:12 PM. Reason : .]

12/20/2010 2:10:33 PM

and I'm fucking tired of people going nuts every time we lose a fucking game. Its a lot more stressful to watch us lose knowing we have a bunch of fucking retards as fans who are going to kick and scream until we hire a new coach every fucking time we lose. Get the point?


Nobody in their right mind should want Lowe to coach this team if we finish the same way we have the last 4 seasons. That said, shut the fuck up and let the season play out. We've lost to 4 good teams without our best player, and we haven't started the ACC schedule. You people are just fucking ignorant.

12/20/2010 2:14:36 PM