Quote :

"Consider a year ago gas was nearly a dollar cheaper here in NC and I'm willing to bet a year from now it will be a dollar more expensive."

How much would you be willing to bet? Nevermind, you would never pay up, idiot.

Quote :

"Actually oil is by far not the cheapest. Shit, biodiesel is cheaper than oil and runs cleaner yes and it is renewable"

Really? Do you ever bother checking the shit you say? Why is it that you types do not bother checking your facts? I know, it is because you know it is cheaper because someone told you it was. Or maybe you just hope it is. When you look at this graph, remember that it is the national average at the time (about a year ago). That is with an average of 53 cents taxes on gasoline, less on diesel, and mad subsidies on biodiesel.

Quote :

"Increasing demand for a commodity that will not go into increased production will raise its price won't it?"

Really? Last I checked, year over year worldwide oil production is going up 11% a year.

7/31/2005 8:08:33 PM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/29/AR2005072901672.html

Quote :

"Prices around $60 a barrel, driven by high demand growth, are fueling the fear of imminent shortage -- that the world is going to begin running out of oil in five or 10 years. This shortage, it is argued, will be amplified by the substantial and growing demand from two giants: China and India. Yet this fear is not borne out by the fundamentals of supply. Our new, field-by-field analysis of production capacity, led by my colleagues Peter Jackson and Robert Esser, is quite at odds with the current view and leads to a strikingly different conclusion: There will be a large, unprecedented buildup of oil supply in the next few years. Between 2004 and 2010, capacity to produce oil (not actual production) could grow by 16 million barrels a day -- from 85 million barrels per day to 101 million barrels a day -- a 20 percent increase. Such growth over the next few years would relieve the current pressure on supply and demand."

Quote :

"This is not the first time that the world has "run out of oil." It's more like the fifth. Cycles of shortage and surplus characterize the entire history of the oil industry. A similar fear of shortage after World War I was one of the main drivers for cobbling together the three easternmost provinces of the defunct Ottoman Turkish Empire to create Iraq. In more recent times, the "permanent oil shortage" of the 1970s gave way to the glut and price collapse of the 1980s. But this time, it is said, is "different." A common pattern in the shortage periods is to underestimate the impact of technology. And, once again, technology is key."

7/31/2005 10:32:22 PM

Quote :

"How much would you be willing to bet? Nevermind, you would never pay up, idiot."

Uhh yea, actually I am.

http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/stories/2004/08/30/daily6.html

Idiot.

Quote :

"Really? Last I checked, year over year worldwide oil production is going up 11% a year."

Why don't you go ahead and look up how much oil consumption went up between last year and this year?

Quote :

"Global demand is expected to grow by nearly 2 million barrels a day this year -- from 82.5 million barrels a day last year -- but the world's capacity to refine and process crude oil is expected to grow by less than half that."

--http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0505/30/E01-196523.htm

Then consider that your "solution" would only add to the global demand, increase our reliance on oil
(most located in foriegn countries) and further quicken our meeting with the "peak production point."

7/31/2005 11:17:18 PM

By the way.

I'd like to note that OPEC did vote to keep Oil production moderate.

[Edited on July 31, 2005 at 11:25 PM. Reason : .]

7/31/2005 11:23:56 PM

So you admit you were wrong when you said production would not increase.

BTW, people don't just produce oil and throw it away. I'm pretty sure worldwide oil production and consumption are roughly equal. So, in order for consumption to increase, production must have increased. Congratulations, you have finally come to the realization that we are not running out of oil

Quote :

"Uhh yea, actually I am."

Good. let us make sure you understand how you are losing your money.

New York Harbor Gasoline closed friday at $1.7387 a gallon. You are betting that on July 31, 2006 it will close at $2.7387 a gallon or higher. I would happily bet $100 against such as absurd statement. I would bet more, but I don't want to encourage you to skip out more than you probably already will.

7/31/2005 11:56:25 PM

Quote :

"So you admit you were wrong when you said production would not increase."

I just posted that OPEC voted to keep production moderate.

Quote :

"New York Harbor Gasoline closed friday at $1.7387 a gallon. You are betting that on July 31, 2006 it will close at $2.7387 a gallon or higher. I would happily bet $100 against such as absurd statement. I would bet more, but I don't want to encourage you to skip out more than you probably already will."

First off, I have no idea where New York Harbor Gasoline is. If its in New York, and its that cheap then kudos for them. However, I can bet you that a year from now gasoline will be nearly one dollar more expensive then it currently is here in NC.

Read that durham times article, then go look at gas prices around NC State.

Furthermore, don't try and sidetrack this discussion from the absurdity of your "ideas" previously presented.

I mean how hard is it to understand that gas won't get significantly cheaper or that using it as an "alternative, cheap, energy source" is one of the stupidest ideas to come from any 'engineer' since the one button mouse or "Microsoft Bob!" .

8/1/2005 2:15:47 AM

Quote :

" Really? Do you ever bother checking the shit you say? Why is it that you types do not bother checking your facts? I know, it is because you know it is cheaper because someone told you it was. Or maybe you just hope it is. When you look at this graph, remember that it is the national average at the time (about a year ago). That is with an average of 53 cents taxes on gasoline, less on diesel, and mad subsidies on biodiesel."

There aren't that many subsidies on biodiesel you loon. And I've yet to meet anyone who actually pays for the biodiesel they put in their car. Besides, Biodiesel is still the best bang for the buck.

8/1/2005 4:41:33 AM

Quote :

"First off, I have no idea where New York Harbor Gasoline is."

My dear goodness, how do you presume to be lecturing me on the future of the marketplace when you don't even know where or what it is! Just so you know, in a free market system there is a fucking market! This is the mercantile exchange in New York where buyers and sellers of gasoline meet to bid against one another. It is "that cheap" as you bluntly put it because it is being traded at wholesale before any sin-taxes are applied. As you obviously don't know, North Carolina, like most states, have very high gas taxes applied at the pump, namely 53 cents per gallon. So, the real price of gasoline, $1.73, plus 53 cents in taxes, produces the NC market price of $2.26 a gallon. Some companies are able to sell for less than this price because competition is fierce nowadays and they are losing money.

Quote :

"I mean how hard is it to understand that gas won't get significantly cheaper"

There is a big difference between getting "significantly cheaper" and Going up another 58%. The current price is unsustainable, what makes you think an even higher one would be?

And when did I say it should be an alternative? My point was simply that it should be, fuck, it already is, the primary energy source for affordable power.

Quote :

"There aren't that many subsidies on biodiesel you loon. And I've yet to meet anyone who actually pays for the biodiesel they put in their car"

Great! You know someone, so maybe you know why... I do, but please, pull yourself out of your hole by telling me where they get their free biodiesel, then purhaps you can, like me, elaborate on why there isn't enough "free stuff" for everyone on the road.

8/1/2005 10:24:47 AM

Warming trend linked to fiercer hurricanes

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8776578/

Quote :

"Scientists call the findings both surprising and “alarming” because they suggest global warming is influencing storms now — rather than in the distant future. "

8/1/2005 10:41:54 AM

Quote :

"Great! You know someone, so maybe you know why... I do, but please, pull yourself out of your hole by telling me where they get their free biodiesel, then purhaps you can, like me, elaborate on why there isn't enough "free stuff" for everyone on the road."

You get the shit for free from restaurants. But in the end, the cost is still lower than gasoline. For chrissakes, when soya farmers can grow the crop (extremely cheap taht is why it is used as filler) and the oil from the soya or any other lipid baring plant can be used as fuel that runs cleaner, home grown, renewable, and more efficient then it is a win-win for everyone except for the fucking idiots like you and the oil companies.

Quote :

"There is a big difference between getting "significantly cheaper" and Going up another 58%. The current price is unsustainable, what makes you think an even higher one would be? And when did I say it should be an alternative? My point was simply that it should be, fuck, it already is, the primary energy source for affordable power. "

How do you know it isn't sustainable? Are you clair voyant? And it will quickly become an unaffordable power. It is nearly there now.

[Edited on August 1, 2005 at 10:48 AM. Reason : .]

8/1/2005 10:47:12 AM

Quote :

"But in the end, the cost is still lower than gasoline."

Then I ask you, since it is a substitute for diesel, why is it not used instead of regular diesel? The fact is, you just hope it is, but you for sure are wrong. Look at the graph at the top of page 2, it clearly shows that biodiesel is more than 20% more expensive that straight diesel. The fact that you get it for free is irrelevant, there is only so much waste oil coming out of the nations restaurants, at some point you are going to have to start paying the market price for it, $2.06 a gallon as of June 2004.

Quote :

"How do you know it isn't sustainable?"

Simple, it didn't cost nearly that much to produce. Saudi Arabia has production costs about $4 a barrel. In North America, the most expensive oil on the planet, is being drilled for $14 a barrel. As soon as investors conclude that high oil prices are here to stay, they will drill more expensive oil.

"This is not the first time that the world has "run out of oil." It's more like the fifth. Cycles of shortage and surplus characterize the entire history of the oil industry...But this time, it is said, is 'different.'" People like you were wrong before, and are wrong again.

8/1/2005 12:19:37 PM

Quote :

"Then I ask you, since it is a substitute for diesel, why is it not used instead of regular diesel? The fact is, you just hope it is, but you for sure are wrong. Look at the graph at the top of page 2, it clearly shows that biodiesel is more than 20% more expensive that straight diesel. "

I wonder. could it be because the oil companies don't want competition and are keeping the hutzbah on biodiesel?

Quote :

"Simple, it didn't cost nearly that much to produce. Saudi Arabia has production costs about $4 a barrel. In North America, the most expensive oil on the planet, is being drilled for $14 a barrel. As soon as investors conclude that high oil prices are here to stay, they will drill more expensive oil. "

there is more to the cost of gasoline than just pumping the shit out of the ground. Plus, let's not forget in order for gas one needs sweet crude and not sour. Saudi Arabia has sour crude.

Quote :

""This is not the first time that the world has "run out of oil." It's more like the fifth. Cycles of shortage and surplus characterize the entire history of the oil industry...But this time, it is said, is 'different.'" People like you were wrong before, and are wrong again."

No one ever said the world has run out of oil. We are saying the world is running out of oil. If you will notice the predictions for the end of oil is in about 30 or so years. No one has ever, ever, I repeat ever said the world is out of oil, only that it is running out of oil.

8/1/2005 1:01:17 PM

Quote :

"My dear goodness, how do you presume to be lecturing me on the future of the marketplace when you don't even know where or what it is! Just so you know, in a free market system there is a fucking market! This is the mercantile exchange in New York where buyers and sellers of gasoline meet to bid against one another. It is "that cheap" as you bluntly put it because it is being traded at wholesale before any sin-taxes are applied. As you obviously don't know, North Carolina, like most states, have very high gas taxes applied at the pump, namely 53 cents per gallon. So, the real price of gasoline, $1.73, plus 53 cents in taxes, produces the NC market price of $2.26 a gallon. Some companies are able to sell for less than this price because competition is fierce nowadays and they are losing money."

Quoting costs of gasoline on a freemarket exchange is entirely irrelevent to this argument. First off, thats not the cost facing consumers, and secondly, its not the cost of crude per barrel. A year ago, a barrel of crude was approximately 40$ give or take, and now its upwards 60$. That 50% increase precludes all refining costs to turn oil into gasoline and then the at-the-pump taxes charged by states. At its base, Oil has become increasingly expensive.

As for your assumption that the current price is unsustainable, the current rise in petrol prices hasn't had a major effect on the growth of the US economy (yet) and is estimated that we could sustain increases up to 100$ per barrel. That magic figure is what most economists believe to the point where noticeable economic impact would be seen.

Quote :

" And when did I say it should be an alternative? My point was simply that it should be, fuck, it already is, the primary energy source for affordable power."

Quote :

"3. shifting weather patterns - if the temperate zone of the planet shifts northward, human assistance may be needed to relocate plant and animal as well as human agricultural systems to new areas. Solution: construction systems capable of constructing new irrigation systems and distribution systems to access the necessary resources needed technology: affordable portable energy supplies, such as from Oil"

It is not currently "the primary source" for affordable power in the united states. It is the primary source of energy for transportation. You want to make portable, widespread energy systems from gasoline. Nevermind that such systems aren't very effecient, they would increase the demand for gasoline and drive prices up.

8/1/2005 2:00:03 PM

Quote :

"I wonder. could it be because the oil companies don't want competition and are keeping the hutzbah on biodiesel?"

That is one hell of a conspiracy theory if I've ever heard one. Please, tell, how in the hell are they pulling this off? I just cannot imagine how they are tricking every producer of biodiesel to automatically charge 20% more than the going rate for regular diesel. That would mean, in the very least, anyone producing a gallon of biodiesel is automatically taking at least 20% as profit! That's even before we accept your assumption that it is cheaper to make biodiesel. Why isn't everyone doing this? Oh, right, the oil companies told them not to.

There must be men running around with guns threatening to shoot anyone that starts making biodiesel, because people do not often refuse free money.

Quote :

"If you will notice the predictions for the end of oil is in about 30 or so years"

Fine. Perhaps you are right, my mistake. 30 years into the future is difficult to predict. But judging from the current situation, I am confident that the current bull oil market is going to engender over-production, ultimately resulting in a classical bubble-burst, as in 1998. I think this should come to fruition sometime in 2007, 2008 at the latest (allowing for the three year lead time in well development). Gasoline will be down to about $1.25 a gallon (after taxes). It could go lower, but we all hope not.

Do you remember the summer of 1998? I just feel like reminiscing. What was the lowest you saw? 96 cents I found in Fayetteville. Just imagine what that must have been like for oil producers. At 96 cents retail a gallon, 53 cents in taxes, the real price was only 43 cents a gallon! Everyone lost their shirts, it was a disaster for the world-wide energy industry. Is there any question why, only seven years later, there isn't enough oil to go around?

Markets do not work as well as they should. I think Bill Clinton should have flash flooded the SPR, anything to get rid of the '98 glut. But he didn't, and neither did Bush in '01 when the same shit hit the fan (only luckily not as extreme). Today we are paying for past crimes against the industry, but attempting to pass it off as evidence of a doomed society is simply taking advantage of a bad situation.

8/1/2005 2:26:50 PM

Nothing you've said comes close to vindicating how terrible your ideas on the previous page were.

Furthermore, we won't ever see the low prices of 98.

8/1/2005 3:16:37 PM

Really? I didn't realize "solving problems with reason and intellect" was so controversial. Maybe sea walls are not the best means of dealing with storm surges, but shouldn't you say that instead of just dismissing my ideas without displaying your own?

Your only response to my ideas was "oil is too scarce to use" while history demonstrates otherwise. Try again! If my ideas seem silly to you, surely there is a good reason, even if it is that you are brainwashed to view reason with skepticism.

Maybe it would be best to allow nature to manage meteorlogical shifts on its own, maybe it would be better to use technology to protect the current natural environment directly, such as we do in parks, than simply relocating it.

8/1/2005 5:24:27 PM

Quote :

"Really? I didn't realize "solving problems with reason and intellect" was so controversial."

Quote :

"Maybe sea walls are not the best means of dealing with storm surges"

I don't know what sort of man would view covering the US coastline in concrete as "reasonable and intellectual"

Quote :

" but shouldn't you say that instead of just dismissing my ideas without displaying your own?"

I did say that sea walls were an impractical idea on page one.

Quote :

"Your only response to my ideas was "oil is too scarce to use" while history demonstrates otherwise. Try again!"

What "history" do you speak of? Global oil consumption is not cyclic. It has sustained growth thats accelerating with an ever increasing global middle class. We also can't increase production as quickly as the past as new oil reserves are getting more difficult to tap and access.

Quote :

" If my ideas seem silly to you, surely there is a good reason, even if it is that you are brainwashed to view reason with skepticism. "

Do I really have to be brainwashed to think covering the coastline with concrete and moving large population centers south as a stupid idea for addressing a potential environmental crisis?

Quote :

"Maybe it would be best to allow nature to manage meteorlogical shifts on its own, maybe it would be better to use technology to protect the current natural environment directly, such as we do in parks, than simply relocating it."

Right.

8/1/2005 6:05:56 PM

covering the coastline with concrete? I guess I miss-spoke. It would make no sense to protect un-populated areas of the coastline. Obviously, we should only put forth effort where it makes sense. Most cities already have protected coastlines, and most rural areas have no use for them. I guess I can somehow understand why you thought I was crazy, but I assure you now it was a misunderstanding.

My point was that, as sentient creatures skilled at problem solving, we can fix these problems. No point committing inter-generational suicide to prevent a potential problem whose effects are not all that bad.

8/1/2005 9:21:09 PM

If I had to believe in a single conspiracy theory, it would be one that says the oil industry and the bush administration do special favors for each other (to put it vaguely).

Theres nothing stormy about it. Expect "surge". Of course, we dont have much to worry about. The USA doesnt have densely populated coastal cities sitting an inch or two above sea level. Southeast asia, on the otherhand...

[Edited on August 1, 2005 at 10:23 PM. Reason : wuh]

8/1/2005 10:18:07 PM

^^Fair enough.

I can agree with that.

8/2/2005 11:09:26 AM

Quote :

" That is one hell of a conspiracy theory if I've ever heard one. Please, tell, how in the hell are they pulling this off? I just cannot imagine how they are tricking every producer of biodiesel to automatically charge 20% more than the going rate for regular diesel. That would mean, in the very least, anyone producing a gallon of biodiesel is automatically taking at least 20% as profit! That's even before we accept your assumption that it is cheaper to make biodiesel. Why isn't everyone doing this? Oh, right, the oil companies told them not to."

Are you kidding me? the major reason why most individuals don't use biodiesel is because there are no pumps near them (as you said earlier, not everyone can get it from the restaurants). And as it currently stands the oil industry has been fighting every single advance in alternative fuels either by pricing, or buying most patents so that they do not see the production side of things.

Quote :

"My point was that, as sentient creatures skilled at problem solving, we can fix these problems. No point committing inter-generational suicide to prevent a potential problem whose effects are not all that bad."

And a sentient creature can say, "hmmm...fossil fuels are poluting and causing most of the problems. Maybe we should ween ourselves from them." Instead of saying, "build a huge fucking wall along the coastlines." Plus, look at a topographical map of North Carolina. You'll notice that coastal plain extends almost all the way to raleigh with little or no change in elevation. an increase of the sealevel in less than a foot would reek massive damage on this state economically and agriculturally. What's your plan for when brachous waters infect the ground water supply of eastern north carolina? build fucking desalinization plants everfuckingwhere?

8/2/2005 1:00:33 PM

But Mr. Nutty, is not biodiesel a direct substitute for regular diesel?
As such, would it not be in the gas station owners best interest to sell biodiesel to its customers, if it is in fact cheaper, and still charge the going rate for regular diesel pocketting the difference?

Just look at all the gas stations around you. Not all of them own oil wells somewhere. Even if they did, they could always sell their oil on the open market. Why do you think they must sell it to you, the customer?

Not to mention, why would China not be using this magically biodiesel? We can pipeline it to California and load it onto massive tankers for the journey to China. Do you think the Chinese enjoy being forced to buy expensive oil?

All this is evidence, not to mention the government report I posted at the top of page 2 which showed a price differential of 20%, that biodiesel is more expensive than regular diesel.

Americans will switch to using diesel after giving up gasoline. Biodiesel may come later, but not soon.

8/2/2005 1:38:03 PM

Quote :

"But Mr. Nutty, is not biodiesel a direct substitute for regular diesel? As such, would it not be in the gas station owners best interest to sell biodiesel to its customers, if it is in fact cheaper, and still charge the going rate for regular diesel pocketting the difference?"

hmmm...99% of gas stations around where I live (minus the mom and pop shit) are all owned by massive oil companies. Furthermore, only a small percentage of vehicles on the road way are diesel. The US government would be better off promoting diesel over gasoline and going beyond that, mandating a biodiesel program for all diesel vehicles.

Quote :

"Not to mention, why would China not be using this magically biodiesel? We can pipeline it to California and load it onto massive tankers for the journey to China. Do you think the Chinese enjoy being forced to buy expensive oil? "

I dare say, are you saying the United States should be like China? If so, then I guess we'll ration out the gasoline, have people still using oxen driven carts and have a horrendous smog problem

Quote :

"All this is evidence, not to mention the government report I posted at the top of page 2 which showed a price differential of 20%, that biodiesel is more expensive than regular diesel."

I don't see a government report. I see a graph that has no sources behind it other than it is posted on your personal webspace

Quote :

"Americans will switch to using diesel after giving up gasoline. Biodiesel may come later, but not soon."

yes not soon enough, that is why we need the government to place fucking restrictions on the fucking gasoline engines and force the manufacturers to ween themselves from gasoline engines.


Also, in your price comparison, I noticed that you do not account for glycerin, which is a biproduct from the process used to produce biodiesel. and if you'll note, glycerin is a lucrative product that is used in soaps amongst other things. A fucking win-win for everyone.

[Edited on August 2, 2005 at 2:50 PM. Reason : .]

8/2/2005 2:45:33 PM

Quote :

"yes not soon enough, that is why we need the government to place fucking restrictions on the fucking gasoline engines and force the manufacturers to ween themselves from gasoline engines."

That is because you realize in your own heart that liberty is a curse and you simply know better than everyone else how they should live. FUCK YOU!

As for the graph, I thought I put the link in... Oh well...
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/resources/pricereport/pdfs/afpr_3_23_04.pdf
I suppose you think the government is lying when it writes up these reports?

This is also a good read:
http://www.agmanager.info/agribus/energy/Biodiesel%20Is%20it%20Worth%20Considering.pdf
"Without any type of federal subsidy, biodiesel is relatively higher priced than diesel."

[Edited on August 2, 2005 at 3:34 PM. Reason : link]

8/2/2005 3:15:01 PM

Quote :

"That is because you realize in your own heart that liberty is a curse and you simply know better than everyone else how they should live. FUCK YOU!"

Liberty isn't a curse to me at all. I love your ad hominem rhetoric. But yes, when you drive a gasoline car you are hurting me, my family and my friends. You are hurting me and my family and friend via pollution and you are responsible for the deaths in Iraq and the pupetting of tyrannical regimes throughout the middle east because you are the reason why our boys are there dying and you are the reason why the US supports those despots. Freedom for you, by butt fucking the Saudis right?
FUCK YOU HYPOCRIT


Plus, the added economic impact from biodiesel for the state of north carolina alone. Two biodesiel refining plants have been planned for the state of north carolina and that means jobs and a place for north carolina agriculture products. Besides, with the sparce amounts of refining plants in the United States its a wonder that biodiesel is so cheap. Add on the benefit of better lubrication than petrol diesel and you end up with a clean burning fuel that is better for your car and more efficient. It's a win-win

And on your freedom tangent. how does it feel to have car and oil companies combinging their forces so the odds that you'd be able to choose a biodiesel ready automobile and seeing biodiesel pumps available are nil? Where's your freedom now?

http://www.agmanager.info/agribus/energy/Biodiesel%20Is%20it%20Worth%20Considering.pdf

I like how the link you provide pretty much said biodiesel is the way to go

[Edited on August 2, 2005 at 4:26 PM. Reason : .]

8/2/2005 4:18:17 PM

Are you daft? It was I that said it was the way to go. And we will all go there at our own pace and in accordance with our own needs. And I love how dictators are always quoted "I love democracy, but..."

Well, there you go. "Liberty isn't a curse to me at all...But..."

My consumption of gasoline negligibly hurts you. Hell, I can't find any evidence where I live that shows gasoline to be anything but completely benign. NORTH CAROLINA DOES NOT HAVE A POLLUTION PROBLEM. It is an issue, just as beaver dams are an issue.

As for your bullshit, you sincerely believe it is my fault that bad people, people I have never met, do bad things? What next? Am I responsible for columbine too?

Money is a tool, it can be used for good or for evil. We are engaging in simple commerce, we have no way of knowing if the next barrel we purchase will be used to fund Saudi Arabia's extensive healthcare system or hire torture specialists. We purchase shit from China everyday. Do you seriously think we are morally responsible if China invades Korea? I guess everyone, instead of just the United States, should blockade Cuba because they have a poor civil rights record too?

Besides, as far as I can tell, we are in Iraq because 9/11 happened.

Quote :

"Freedom for you, by butt fucking the Saudis right?"

It just amazes me how you people feel you can dictate to me who I can fuck. Gays are just people like us, and they would probably not appreciate your discrimination.

8/2/2005 7:00:49 PM

Quite possibly fuel is just not the answer to the environmental problems we have; fossil fuel or renewable. Until we start really pushing development of “clean” electricity, I doubt our environment will get any better. But often, we just don’t have our priorities very straight.

In 20-30 years, I really think we will look back and see all of this electric-fuel and bio-fuel power for cars is just a bunch of nonsense.

http://www.theaircar.com/

^ This is an example, it’s quite possibly not the best (especially since most guys for some reason can’t give up their huge trucks, SUVs and cars that can go 150mph for a environmentally friendlier vehicle) but with more development, better designs and more innovation like this in the area of energy production we could do well to solve a many of our environmental problems.




[Edited on August 2, 2005 at 9:41 PM. Reason : addition of ice age symbolism]

[Edited on August 2, 2005 at 9:44 PM. Reason : ... bad scripts]

8/2/2005 9:39:01 PM

Quote :

"NORTH CAROLINA DOES NOT HAVE A POLLUTION PROBLEM"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

8/2/2005 10:02:32 PM

8/3/2005 1:06:29 AM

lol, first post is the best

8/3/2005 2:15:25 AM

^^^^^Its certainly not a problem compared to someplace like LA, but its hardly ignorable. We just had couple days last week where air quality was so poor that state officials issued a warning telling people to stay inside whenever possible.

Most of NC's air problem stems from out of state facilities producing air-pollution that is carried in our direction by wind.

[Edited on August 3, 2005 at 7:36 AM. Reason : not enuff ^s]

8/3/2005 7:33:58 AM

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/234872_ice02.html

Quote :

"Are Earth ice ages created by stars? Researchers link solar system travel, terrestrial climate By KEAY DAVIDSON SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE It might sound preposterous, like astrology, to suggest that galactic events help determine when North America is or isn't buried under immense sheets of ice taller than skyscrapers. But new research suggests that the coming and going of major ice ages might result partly from our solar system's passage through immense, snakelike clouds of exploding stars in the Milky Way galaxy. Resembling the curved contrails of a whirling Fourth of July pinwheel, the Milky Way's spiral arms are clouds of stars rich in supernovas, or exploding stars. Supernovas emit showers of charged particles called cosmic rays. Theorists have proposed that when our solar system passes through a spiral arm, the cosmic rays fall to Earth and knock electrons off atoms in the atmosphere, making them electrically charged, or ionized. Since opposite electrical charges attract each other, the positively charged ionized particles attract the negatively charged portion of water vapor, thus forming large droplets in the form of low-lying clouds. In turn, the clouds cool the climate and trigger an ice age -- or so theorists suggest. In that regard, researchers are finding correlations between the timing of Earth's ice ages and epochs when our solar system passed through galactic spiral arms. The latest evidence appears in a recent issue of Astrophysical Journal. The article is the result of an unusual collaboration between an astronomer, professor Douglas Gies of Georgia State University's Center for High Angular Resolution Astronomy, and a 16-year-old student at Grady High School in Atlanta, John Helsel. They report the results of their effort to determine how the sun has moved through the galaxy over the last half-billion years. By making a variety of assumptions about the rate of solar motion and the distribution of spiral arms in the galaxy -- which are difficult to map because galactic dust and foreground stars get in the way -- Gies and Helsel conclude that "the sun has traversed four spiral arms at times that appear to correspond well with long-duration cold periods on Earth." "This," they continue, "supports the idea that extended exposure to the higher cosmic-ray flux associated with spiral arms can lead to increased cloud cover and long ice age epochs on Earth." Gies and Helsel's article is the long-term result of a project that Helsel began working on "as a science fair project," Gies said. Gies, 50, is a neighbor of Helsel's. Gies had previously "developed a scheme to model the motion of some massive stars in the galaxy," and when Helsel approached him for guidance on the science fair project, their "conversation quickly focused on studying the sun's motion and encounters with spiral arms in the galaxy.""

8/3/2005 11:06:26 AM

What I want to know is why only the northern hemisphere experiences ice ages. Sure, the southern hemisphere consists mostly of ocean in the southern latitudes, but Australia is a large landmass, cover it with snow!

8/3/2005 1:16:55 PM

Are you joking? Do you have any idea how complex the Earth's climate is?

8/3/2005 5:27:37 PM

I have only a small understanding of the Earth's various systems. But I do realize it is rediculously complicated. But like all complicated things, you can pick out the most important aspect of it. For example, rain > hot moist air rises and condenses.

So, surely, there is some simple explanation that will "suffice" for government work, right?

8/3/2005 11:21:02 PM