Quote :

"If something's not fair, can you give me an explanation of how it's not unfair?"

Simple: There is nothing fair about "Fair Trade," at least in the Democrat sense. It is a trade pact which heaps restrictions and regulations upon the poor 3rd world trading partners, while doing little to anything to us. Obviously NOT FAIR. Hence, "Fair Trade is not Fair" Hence "Free Trade is the only fair trade."

7/29/2005 11:57:10 AM

nerdboy, what I'm sure of is that you have ABSOLUTELY no way to know whether I would or not. I came into my political consciousness during the 2000 election, and I didn't like al gore or george bush, so I voted libertarian. This time, I voted for kerry, but only because ralph nader wasn't on the ballot in nc.

And yes, if the democrats were being idiots and were in power, I'd heap just as much scorn on them. Scout's honor.

7/29/2005 12:53:34 PM

^^You mean restrictions like proper working conditions for the workers?

Fair trade means everyone is on an equal playing field without extra-market variables, such as subsidies.

7/29/2005 12:58:38 PM

you lean far left george. given that democrats are further left than republicans, its not possible for you to be as hostile towards democrats as you are to republicans.

7/29/2005 1:28:07 PM

actually, it is, because most democrats (the ones in power, at least) don't do much of anything that I would consider very progressive.

some of them talk big (kennedy, for example), but then they don't follow through. sometimes, I think that's worse.

also, i really wouldn't say I lean far left. What exactly do you mean by that? Do you mean economically? socially? the whole left/right thing is pretty nonsensical.

I lean far towards social liberal and less government control of people's lives, and economically i'm alot more for unfettered markets and less government

7/29/2005 2:17:59 PM

Quote :

"economically i'm alot more for unfettered markets"

Maybe you forgot this thread already....

message_topic.aspx?topic=337029

7/29/2005 2:54:08 PM

Quote :

"I'm sure Cheney, now our VP, will quickly denounce Tom Delay's similar action as an abuse of power as well."

Politics as usual. Reminds me of the entire judicial filibuster thing a few months ago. Many of the same Democrats who vocally complained about the attempts to abolish the filibuster as an attempt to undermind the Senate were quoted back in the early 90s (when the Democrats were holding the majority) about how Republicans were abusing the filibuster to disrupt government and how the archaic practice that protected a vocal extreme minority should be abolished.

7/29/2005 3:09:22 PM

IIII SEE, so when you have some way of spinning a lie, you say they weren't lying. when it's obvious they were lying, it's "politics as usual."

7/29/2005 3:46:14 PM

Quote :

"economically i'm alot more for unfettered markets and less government"

Then you should be happy they didn't include any labor or environmental restrictions.

But isn't there a question of "Who has the right to legislate in this country?" How would you like it if the UN began placing restrictions on purely american commerce?

The people of Venezuela did not elect George Bush, so why should George Bush be setting environmental policy in Venezuela?

7/29/2005 4:07:53 PM

Quote :

"IIII SEE, so when you have some way of spinning a lie, you say they weren't lying. when it's obvious they were lying, it's "politics as usual.""

Hey, politicians always lie, or at least conveniently forget what they said a few years prior... or have you forgotten that constant in the universe? Not saying Dick is morally superior or inferior to any of them, simply that it's not all that much different from when previous administrations, Democratic or Republican.

7/29/2005 5:51:19 PM

^^ bush isn't setting venezuelan policy. the venezuelan gov. SIGNED UP FOR THIS SHIT

in fact, I think we're the last country to sign on so I really don't get how we're dictating anything - hell we almost didn't even join the fuckin thing damn

you're such an idiot

7/29/2005 11:41:50 PM

Nerdboy, I think you are ignoring the difference between what CAFTA is and what DirtyGreek wanted it to be. I was addressing the latter, not the former.

CAFTA was Free Trade, as best I can figure. These other fools dislike CAFTA because it isn't Fair Trade.

But thanks for noticing, idiot.

7/30/2005 12:52:16 AM

Quote :

"Yes, Western & Central Europe (excluding the UK, and maybe Scandinavia depending how far you want to lower the bar) look pretty fucking terrible compared to us."

Norway owns us, but it's tiny.

And Europe still looks great compared to Latin America...

Quote :

"are you seriously citing CEPR? That's like me pulling out some Cato white papers and calling it a day..."

I actually have some respect for Cato. And yes, I was citing them as example of people who don't like current patent law. They aren't the only economists with such views, you know...

Quote :

"wtf is up with you lefties and all the false dilemmas floating around? Just a few months ago it was the conservatives always resorting to the weak fallacies..."

Uh, let me recap the argument for you:

GoldenViper: NAFTA appears to have done more or less nothing to increase growth in Mexico.
TGD: Um, yeah, okay, so what? It has increased TRADE, you stupid commie!!! Mission accomplished!!111
GoldenViper: I think growth is more important than trade.
TGD: You leftists and your false dilemmas! What's wrong with you?

7/30/2005 1:34:08 AM