Quote :

"nutsmackr: the other 99% is there because of 1) inadequate healthcare 2) the insurance companies playing the stock market and actually not have the money they promised 3) Greed by the insurance companies and doctors"

You're joking, right?

8/5/2005 3:56:18 PM

I'm dead fucking serious. investigate it, instead of just chiming in the end all of "Tort Reform"

Tort reform wouldn't fix a single goddamned problem.

8/5/2005 3:58:49 PM

^
Agreed. At best malpractice suits might be a cause for 5-7% of the overall healthcare cost increases.

That doesn't change my initial response.

8/5/2005 4:00:48 PM

I thought it was sarcam but I couldnt really remember what nutsmakr's political ideology was this week.

[Edited on August 5, 2005 at 4:04 PM. Reason : its hard to keep up]

8/5/2005 4:01:31 PM

I just had to chuckle at "investigate it, instead of just chiming in the end all of 'Tort Reform'"...

[Edited on August 5, 2005 at 4:09 PM. Reason : ...when I work for a trial lawyer ]

8/5/2005 4:06:54 PM

Quote :

"Like I said before, this is a discussion about ideas and i have never seen a conservative explaination for why some areas are so poor and what we can do about about it."

OK, I'll give you an explanation. Education. Some people value it, some people don't. Those who do value it usually end up in the not poor areas. Those who don't, usually don't.

8/5/2005 6:19:17 PM

The liberals know that if their candidates ran honestly on what they believe (kinda like that liar/Democrat in OH District 2 who tried to paint himself as a hawk/Bush man even though he called Bush the biggest threat to the world today) they would have their collectivist tails handed to them. Liberals haven't had an original idea in decades other than finding new ways to expand the role of government. There's a reason why their wacky beliefs haven't gotten much further than the make believe world of academia.

8/5/2005 10:50:38 PM

^ you are right about the democrats, it is the republicans who are finding new and interesting ways to expand the role of government.

8/5/2005 11:47:40 PM

The war on terror isn't cheap ya know.

8/5/2005 11:53:14 PM

Quote :

"I already conceded that evangelicals do care about these issues and they are very active, but frankly their involvement boils down to volunteering and basic charity funds. Like I said before, this is a discussion about ideas and i have never seen a conservative explaination for why some areas are so poor and what we can do about about it."

Really now? Many conservatives continue to spout the mantra that socialist systems have fubared third world nations seduced by their Kensyan promises. They are carriers of the banner of free trade and capitalist democracies to bring peace and prosperity to the world. The conservative movement has offered up several remedies on what we can do about poverty. Free trade through treaties like CAFTA to bring new jobs to both the United States and the Latin American nations that are a part of it. Liberals have been very much against free trade, promoting the "fair trade" concept instead (which is significantly different). Whether or not these things actually work is subject to debate, but you can't honestly tell me that you haven't heard conservative politicians and pundits not give these lines.

As for Evangelical Christians, they have only recently emerged as a political voice, and as they mature as a political movement, their voice has grown louder and louder in regards to issues like global poverty. I think you're grossly underestimating the power of such a large, massive, and well-funded grass roots network of NGOs. They may not be very vocal in front of the media, but the thousands of voices that are preaching at the pulpit each Sunday to build schools and support humanitarian projects is undeniable.

Again, there are even things that President Bush has mentioned, such as funding to fight AIDS in Africa and debt relief that are directly tied to global poverty. Domestically, you can't simply write off the President's efforts to support "Faith-based organizations" as not being targeted to the many social problems we have at home, including poverty. His call was for providing government support to an already extensive and organized network of groups that are all ready doing good work. The idea is instead of a clumsy government bureaucracy doing the work, you support local organizations instead. Again, whether or not this is the best route is up for debate, but to say that self-labeled conservatives have not taken a serious crack at the issue is insincere.

Quote :

"I never mentioned sex trafficing or any of that other stuff so please stay on topic. If you're gonna bitch, bitch about what I say."

You may not have addressed these issues directly, but it is a part of the larger argument you're making about the battle of ideas between liberals and conservatives. Self-labeled conservatives are beginning to encroach upon traditionally "liberal" issues, in particular human rights. It was a conservative senator, not a liberal one, that pushed the issue of the Darfur genocide the hardest in the senate. There are more and more social conservatives who are taking up the mantle on issues of religious freedom and social justice.

Liberals are not "winning" the battle but are instead starting to lose ground in other areas. Their ineffectiveness in organizing into a more powerful front on the national scale with a loud and clear message. In their sheer hatred for the President, the "liberal" politicians and their backers have degraded themselves from noble, principled fighters to nothing more than a bunch of whining children who offer no better public platform than "Vote for us 'cause we not evil like the Republicans and their conservative backers." If anything, the liberals are failing in the war of ideas because they can't project an alternatve vision for the future to a general public that is looking for one. They just continue to play defensively and lose ground each and every day. Maybe they're simply waiting for the conservatives to completely destroy everything, but by doing so, they might be extinct long before they have a chance.

8/6/2005 2:48:48 AM

Yikes.

1) I never mentioned human rights, so please stick to the subject.

2) Religous ferver or not, this is a discussion about ideas and not willingness to volunteer. Can you please furnish me with a "conservative" plan for solving any of the thre three problems I listed?

3) Like I told LoneSnark, "free trade" is neither a "conservaitve" or "liberal" concept (please scroll up). But the fact that you think lowering America's tariffs will solve the problem shows how little you've thought about the issue. There are quite a few theories for why some countries remain so poor, but I prefer institutional explainations. According to economists like Hernando De Soto and William Easterly the main reason the tropics have a problem with economic growth is because they do not have proper institutional structures--namely a lack of property rights and an abundance of red tape that squelches the entrepenurial spirit. Simply lowering America's tariff or even the other countries tariffs then will not solve this underlying problem. We have to find a way to presuade countries to initiate structural reform. One popular suggestion, that has already been embraced by Bono, is to make foreign aid and debt relief conditional on insititutional changes.

4) The rest of your post is about how liberals don't get their message across well, which I agree with, but is irrelevant to this discussion. Once again, if I wanted poll numbers I wouldn't have started a thread about ideas. If anything the point of this thread is that ideas don't matter when it comes to elections, public relations do.

8/6/2005 3:04:48 AM

Quote :

"One popular suggestion, that has already been embraced by Bono, is to make foreign aid and debt relief conditional on insititutional changes. "

Bono has been advocating debt relief for a while and has recently embraced the idea of adding conditions...

But conditional debt relief is a conservative idea that the bush administration pretty much started advancing with the millenium challenge account.

8/6/2005 5:27:04 AM

Evil doers

8/6/2005 8:00:25 AM

8/6/2005 9:25:50 AM

Quote :

"You may not have addressed these issues directly, but it is a part of the larger argument you're making about the battle of ideas between liberals and conservatives. Self-labeled conservatives are beginning to encroach upon traditionally "liberal" issues, in particular human rights. It was a conservative senator, not a liberal one, that pushed the issue of the Darfur genocide the hardest in the senate. There are more and more social conservatives who are taking up the mantle on issues of religious freedom and social justice. "

Each party has its mavericks. Such conservatives are the exception, not the rule.

8/6/2005 1:17:54 PM

Clear5, since when was conditional debt relief a Bush admin idea? Or even a conservative idea for that matter??? If anything it was first advanced by the academic community, then later picked up by the politicos.

[Edited on August 9, 2005 at 7:05 AM. Reason : ``]

8/9/2005 7:04:31 AM

Quote :

""Got a problem with air and water quality?" Then you are overly obsessive. Our air and water has never been cleaner. "

this is one of hte craziest things anyone on here has ever said.

our air and water is NOT cleaner than it's ever been. it may be cleaner than it was a hundred years ago, when industrialization was rampant and uncontrolled, and all of our wastes were being spilled irght into the water and air, and it's cleaner than it was in medieval times, when we just kidna let dead people and animals lie along the streets and rivers during the plague, but if you want to be realistic, compare our air and water to what it was in the united states before european settlers.

our air and water is DIRTY. Most mothers have alarmingly high levels of mercury and other harmful chemicals in their breastmilk. that is NOT a sign of a safe and clean environment.

Quote :

"they may be winning the war on ideas, but they're driving this country down the drain"

this runs a close second to craziest thing ever said on here. How exactly is the party iwth absolutely no power in any branch of the federal government driving the country down the drain? If you think the country is going down the drain, I'd say you can blame the party in power.

[Edited on August 9, 2005 at 9:08 AM. Reason : .]

8/9/2005 9:01:52 AM