Quote :

"you might be making up"

only problem is, i'm not. its a peculiarity of the virus. and yes, you fuckng moron, the statistics were assessed correctly.

10/7/2005 12:03:02 PM

If they are so easy to produce then do it. You made the claim the burden of proof is on you.

How about I add research shows that people between the ages of 2 and 9 are completley immune to the bird flu to the conversation. Don't believe me? I'll just say:

Quote :

"research it on your own time"

There. That's all the proof you'll ever need.

10/7/2005 12:10:31 PM

Quote :

"The chickens and turkeys often have their beaks removed and are pumped full of antibiotics just to keep them alive. "

The only response I have to this thread is in regard to the statement above. Poultry are de-beaked but this DOES NOT mean actually removing their beak. The tip is caulderized off to remove the sharp tip which keeps them from hurting each other. Have you ever heard the term "pecking order"? It's what birds do to determine the strong and week in a roost. The strongest male with literally peck the weaker birds to death. De-beaking is a protective measure used to increase productivity by insuring that the larger number of birds possible can live.

As for the antibiotic comment, that's just asinine. Poultry are VACCINATED in the shell much the same way children are vaccinated as babies for measles, mumps, etc. Nearly ALL unvaccinated poultry contain Salmonella which can be fatal to humans. However, vaccination in the shell keeps the birds from ever developing this disease after hatching. The only time antibiotics are used are in MASS outbreaks of some disease in a house. It's much more economical to eliminate a small number of infected birds than to keep an entire house medicated as a precaution.

I have a minor in poultry science....these are just the basics folks

10/7/2005 12:36:21 PM

Why do most Americans buy into the bullshit? I watched Bowling for Columbine a month or so ago(first time) and it was interesting that it had a part on how television and other media sources scare the shit out of people.
Now remember how the west nile virus was going to fuck us up?
Hell I have read Stephen King's "The Stand" I say bring this baby on, I'll worry when people are starting to die by the thousands in the city I live before I worry about this shit.

10/7/2005 1:01:13 PM

Quote :

"You made the claim the burden of proof is on you."

no its not. i don't care if you believe me or not. what i said is completely accurate.

10/7/2005 1:20:28 PM

Quote :

"Hell I have read Stephen King's "The Stand" I say bring this baby on"

Hell yeah, that's the only good book that whore ever wrote, but it's a fucking doozy.

Quote :

"If it's so dangerous"

It isn't.

Quote :

"why aren't they stopping the businesses"

Because the businesses are making metric shit tons of $texas and they aren't getting us sick.

Quote :

"that are making a pandemic even more of a possibility?"

They aren't.

10/7/2005 2:55:29 PM

Quote :

"It isn't."

it will be

10/7/2005 2:56:19 PM

eating birds is immoral anyways, and now god is having his revenge on all the murderers that feel the need to go eat blessed flesh.

10/7/2005 3:17:30 PM

i work in the animal industry and situations like this are VERY hard to deal with from a public standpoint. the average person doesn't know enough about livestock/poultry to understand the difference between an animal health issue, a food safety issue, an economic impact issue, etc....

the media takes factual information such as the tens of millions of birds in Asia that have died DUE this disease and turns it into "The disease has killed tens of millions of birds in Asia." The truth of the matter is that of all the birds that are dead only a fraction of them actually tested positive for the disease, the rest were killed to prevent further spread of the disease. Once an infected house is completely empty of birds it can easily be treated to eradicate the virus. It's simply more economical to kill a few thousand birds in several houses, disinfect the houses, and start all over again with healthy birds than it is to treat the birds that are infected in hopes of stopping the disease.

Another fact that isn't taken into consideration is the impact of the "tens of millions of birds in Asia" that have died. The state of North Carolina ALONE produced 8.76 BILLION broilers last year. That is only ONE segment of the poultry industry produced in ONE state. NOW...don't get me wrong, the economic impact of such a virus on the poultry industry in the US has the potential to be devastating if it ever got here. I'm not saying that a mutation that is deadly to people isn't possible BUT considering there are ~12 known fatal cases in the past 10 years I would say that people are concerned about the wrong thing here. They should be more concerned about the economic impact of the disease on the poultry industry as opposed to the public health scare that could potentially, yet not very likely, happen.

10/7/2005 3:48:41 PM

Quote :

" Quote : "You made the claim the burden of proof is on you." no its not. i don't care if you believe me or not."

Oh, Ok. That's different. I still don't believe you. In fact I am less inclined to do so now. Carry on.

10/7/2005 4:20:57 PM

kthx

10/7/2005 5:37:26 PM

Quote :

"October 8, 2005 Bush Plan Shows U.S. Is Not Ready for Deadly Flu By GARDINER HARRIS WASHINGTON, Oct. 7 - A plan developed by the Bush administration to deal with any possible outbreak of pandemic flu shows that the United States is woefully unprepared for what could become the worst disaster in the nation's history. A draft of the final plan, which has been years in the making and is expected to be released later this month, says a large outbreak that began in Asia would be likely, because of modern travel patterns, to reach the United States within "a few months or even weeks." If such an outbreak occurred, hospitals would become overwhelmed, riots would engulf vaccination clinics, and even power and food would be in short supply, according to the plan, which was obtained by The New York Times. The 381-page plan calls for quarantine and travel restrictions but concedes that such measures "are unlikely to delay introduction of pandemic disease into the U.S. by more than a month or two." The plan's 10 supplements suggest specific ways that local and state governments should prepare now for an eventual pandemic by, for instance, drafting legal documents that would justify quarantines. Written by health officials, the plan does yet address responses by the military or other governmental departments. The plan outlines a worst-case scenario in which more than 1.9 million Americans would die and 8.5 million would be hospitalized with costs exceeding $450 billion. It also calls for a domestic vaccine production capacity of 600 million doses within six months, more than 10 times the present capacity. On Friday, President Bush invited the leaders of the nation's top six vaccine producers to the White House to cajole them into increasing their domestic vaccine capacity, and the flu plan demonstrates just how monumental a task these companies have before them. In the wake of Hurricane Katrina, the Bush administration's efforts to plan for a possible pandemic flu have become controversial, with many Democrats in Congress charging that the administration has not done enough. Many have pointed to the lengthy writing process of the flu plan as evidence of this. But while the administration's flu plan, officially called the Pandemic Influenza Strategic Plan, closely outlines how the Health and Human Services Department may react during a pandemic, it skirts many essential decisions, like how the military may be deployed. "The real shortcoming of the plan is that it doesn't say who's in charge," said a top health official who provided the plan to The Times. "We don't want to have a FEMA-like response, where it's not clear who's running what." Still, the official, who asked for anonymity because the plan was not supposed to be distributed, called the plan a "major milestone" that was "very comprehensive" and sorely needed. The draft provided to The Times is dated Sept. 30, and is stamped "for internal H.H.S. use only." The plan asks government officials to clear it by Oct. 6. Christina Pearson, a spokeswoman for Health and Human Services Secretary Michael O. Leavitt, responded, "We recognize that the H.H.S. plan will be a foundation for a governmentwide plan, and that process has already begun." Ms. Pearson said that Mr. Leavitt has already had one-on-one meetings with other cabinet secretaries to begin the coordination process across the federal government. But she emphasized that the plan given to The Times was a draft and had not been finalized. Mr. Leavitt is leaving Saturday for a 10-day trip to at least four Asian nations, where he will meet with health and agriculture officials to discuss planning for a pandemic flu. He said at a briefing on Friday that the administration's flu plan would be officially released soon. He was not aware at the briefing that The Times had a copy of the plan. And he emphasized that the chances that the virus now killing birds in Asia would become a human pandemic were unknown but probably low. A pandemic is global epidemic of disease. "It may be a while longer, but pandemic will likely occur in the future," he said. And he said that flu planning would soon become a national exercise. "It will require school districts to have a plan on how they will deal with school opening and closing," he said. "It will require the mayor to have a plan on whether or not they're going to ask the theaters not to have a movie." "Over the next couple of months you will see a great deal of activity asking metropolitan areas, 'Are you ready?' If not, here is what must be done," he said. A key point of contention if an epidemic strikes is who will get vaccines first. The administration's plan suggests a triage distribution for these essential medicines. Groups like the military, National Guard and other national security groups were left out. Beyond the military, however, the first in line for essential medicines are workers in plants making the vaccines and drugs as well as medical personnel working directly with those sickened by the disease. Next are the elderly and severely ill. Then come pregnant women, transplant and AIDS patients, and parents of infants. Finally, the police, firefighters and government leaders are next. The plan also calls for a national stockpile of 133 million courses of antiviral treatment. The administration has bought 4.3 million. The plan details the responsibilities of top health officials in each phase of a spreading pandemic, starting with planning and surveillance efforts and ending with coordination with the Department of Defense. Much of the plan is a dry recitation of the science and basic bureaucratic steps that must be followed as a virus races around the globe. But the plan has the feel of a television movie-of-the-week when it describes a possible pandemic situation that begins, "In April of the current year, an outbreak of severe respiratory illness is identified in a small village." "Twenty patients have required hospitalization at the local provincial hospital, five of whom have died from pneumonia and respiratory failure," the plan states. The flu spreads and begins to make headlines around the world. Top health officials swing into action and isolate the new viral strain in laboratories. The scientists discover that "the vaccine developed previously for the avian strain will only provide partial protection," the plan states. In June, federal health officials find airline passengers infected with the virus "arriving in four major U.S. cities," the plan states. By July, small outbreaks are being reported around the nation. It spreads. As the outbreak peaks, about a quarter of workers stay home because they are sick or afraid of becoming sick. Hospitals are overwhelmed. "Social unrest occurs," the plan states. "Public anxiety heightens mistrust of government, diminishing compliance with public health advisories." Mortuaries and funeral homes are overwhelmed. Presently, an avian virus has decimated chicken and other bird flocks in 11 countries. It has infected more than 100 people, about 60 of whom have died, but nearly all of these victims got the disease directly from birds. An epidemic is only possible when a virus begins to pass easily among humans. Lawrence K. Altman contributed reporting for this article. "

10/8/2005 4:06:58 AM

STOCK UP ON THE TUSSIN

10/8/2005 5:24:43 AM

we are all gonna die

10/9/2005 3:18:16 PM

http://www.prisonplanet.com/archives/bird_flu/index.htm

Quote :

"Bird Flu: Fearmongering For Total Control Is the threat of a bird flu pandemic a red flag or is it simply a means of creating a false scarcity so that everyone runs out and buys the antidote fearing an imminent outbreak? Is bird flu the latest attempt to eliminate Posse Comitatus and turn America into a militarized police state? "

10/10/2005 8:05:51 AM

http://www.randomurl.com/salisburyboy

Quote :

"Is salisburyboy really an idiot? could he have been planted by the CIA to discredit valid theories behind 9/11 and New Orleans? "

10/10/2005 9:39:08 AM

Quote :

"we are all gonna die"

yep...that is the only sure thing in life

gg

10/10/2005 10:21:14 AM

In reality the best way to deal with the outbreak is massive containment until vaccines have been developed. They develop a new flu vaccine concoction every year, so with the pressure on the companies now I would imagine it will take another 6 months or so to have a vaccine beginning to be produced. I have not read good data on what the death rate is from the virus. I would imagine that it would be higher in 3rd world countries that do not have good health care systems.

10/10/2005 3:29:23 PM

Quote :

"U.S Health Secretary Warns of Flu Pandemic Oct 10 8:06 PM US/Eastern Email this story By GRANT PECK Associated Press Writer BANGKOK, Thailand The likelihood of a human flu pandemic is very high, U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Michael Leavitt warned Monday as he sought Southeast Asian cooperation to combat the spread of bird flu. Leavitt and the director of the World Health Organization are touring Thailand, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam to seek their collaboration in preparing for the anticipated public health emergency linked to the H5N1 strain of the disease. That strain has swept through poultry populations in many parts of Asia since 2003 and jumped to humans, killing 65 people, mostly through direct contact with sick fowl. While there have been no known cases of person-to-person transmission, World Health Organization officials and other experts have been warning that the virus could mutate into a form that spreads easily among people. In a worst-case scenario, millions could die. Three influenza pandemics have occurred over the last century and "the likelihood of another is very high, some say even certain," Leavitt said after meeting with Thai health officials to review the their preparations. "Whether or not H5N1 is the virus that will ultimately trigger such a pandemic is unknown to us," he said at a news conference. "The probability is uncertain. But the warning signs are troubling. Hence we are responding in a robust way." Leavitt's tour comes after President Bush last month established the "International Partnership on Avian and Pandemic Influenza" to coordinate a global strategy against bird flu and other types of influenza. Leavitt said "containment" was the first line of defense against the illness, encouraging countries to step up development and production of vaccines and strengthen efforts to detect any cases of human transmission early. Thai Public Health Minister Suchai Charoenratanakul said Thailand would contribute at least 5 percent of its antiviral drug supplies to a proposed Southeast Asian regional stockpile. World Heath Organization Director General Dr. Lee Jong-wook said preparation was the key to preventing a flu epidemic such as the one that struck in 1918, killing an estimated 40 million to 50 million people. "Now we know in advance what is happening and we have to prepare ourselves. That is our duty," he said. Also Monday, Turkey and Romania slaughtered thousands of birds after both countries said they detected the disease, and the European Union and other countries banned the import of poultry from the two nations. Bird flu has not been confirmed by expert laboratories, however, and it is unknown whether the poultry deaths in either location involve the H5N1 strain. Nonetheless, some 40,000 birds in eastern Romania were to be slaughtered in coming days, authorities said. "I think it's better to take these preventive measures now," even without confirmation of H5N1, Romanian Prime Minister Calin Popescu Tariceanu said Sunday. ___ Associated Press writers C. Onur Ant in Istanbul, Turkey, and Raf Casert in Brussels, Belgium, contributed to this report. "

10/10/2005 11:45:51 PM

Rumsfeld Profits From Bird Flu Scare
http://www.fortune.com/fortune/investing/articles/0,15114,1124140,00.html

Quote :

"Among the beneficiaries of the run on Tamiflu is Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, who was chairman of Gilead from 1997 to 2001 and owns at least $5 million of the stock, which has jumped from $35 in April to $47. Former Secretary of State George Shultz, who is on Gilead's board, has sold more than $7 million worth of Gilead in 2005. "

11/2/2005 12:38:29 PM

http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051101/LOCAL/51101021/1078/news

Quote :

"Experts dismiss scare over bird flu By DIANE CHUN Sun staff writer At a time when headlines trumpet the potential dangers of "bird flu," Gary Butcher is the man of the hour. Butcher has been an extension veterinarian at the University of Florida's College of Veterinary Medicine since 1988. He was trained as a veterinarian specializing in avian diseases, and has a Ph.D. in poultry virology. [...] "The emphasis of all my work has changed to dealing with this madness," Butcher said Friday, while briefly back at his office on the UF campus in Gainesville. "Realistically, avian influenza is not a threat to people, but everywhere you go, it has turned into a circus." [...] Dr. Marc Siegel, a practicing internist and associate professor of medicine at the New York University School of Medicine, is one physician who isn't buying into the scare scenario. "If anything is contagious right now, it's judgment clouded by fear," Siegel said. And if Americans are scared of avian flu now, Siegel continues, "imagine what will happen if a single scrawny, flu-ridden migratory bird somehow manages to reach our shores." That, he maintains, is how the fear epidemic - as opposed to a flu pandemic - spreads. "

11/3/2005 10:46:45 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/conditions/11/06/bird.flu.ap/index.html

11/6/2005 7:50:56 AM

IT IS TIME FOR THE SIREN



BOARD UP YOUR WINDOWS, HOARD WEAPONS, AMMUNITION, AND FOOD.

SHOOT TO KILL.

11/6/2005 12:42:44 PM

1.9 MILLION AMERICANS ARE GOING TO DIE!



GIVE US MARTIAL LAW!

11/7/2005 8:08:58 AM

^^ HAHA. GG!


New article from Scientific American

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000DCB5A-9CC7-134E-9CC783414B7F0000

11/13/2005 8:45:56 PM