http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/02/us-ukraine-crisis-usa-kerry-idUSBREA210DG20140302

Quote :

"You just don't in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pre-text," Kerry told the CBS program "Face the Nation."

Oh, it hurts...

3/2/2014 3:21:29 PM

[insert list of countries the US has invaded in 20th and 21st centuries]

3/2/2014 3:37:09 PM

Kerry is speaking from experience… He wants Putin to avoid our mistakes…

3/2/2014 5:02:09 PM

That was the only appropriate choice of music.

3/2/2014 6:36:21 PM

Lol I believe that is the correct choice in music.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go find my C&C Red Alert discs.

3/3/2014 7:02:18 AM

On a double posting, serious note:

Russia isn't going anywhere. They're going to stay in the Crimea, and may enter other parts of eastern Ukraine as well.

IMO if the new 'govt' in Kiev stays in power, I can easily see the country being split into 2. Putin and the Kremlin will never allow the West to pull Russian-speaking and Russian-leaning territories away from the Motherland, nor will they allow the possibility of losing their warm-water naval port. They are willing to go to war over this.

Meanwhile, the West really isn't in the mood to go to war to stop them soooo.. yeah this will end about as well as can be expected for the Ukraine.

3/3/2014 7:35:48 AM

It's just Ukraine, not the Ukraine

3/3/2014 8:37:26 AM

"The Ukraine" was correct before the fall but for some reason American journalists still say "the ukraine" quite often. How are we Americans supposed to avoid saying it when it is pumped into our home several times a day by bad journalists. I couldn't believe the lead anchor on CNN newsroom was even saying it.

3/3/2014 8:50:04 AM

We have been skirting around this issue by not calling in an invasion, because if its an invasion we are supposed to protect Ukraine by our treaty.

that may change though, Russia has now given forces in Crimea a deadline to pledge allegiance to Russia and if they do not Russia will start an invasion. this would be the most serious escalation so far, and there would be almost no way that NATO and the US could stay out of it at that point.

http://news.sky.com/story/1220272/ukraine-russia-delivers-assault-storm-deadline

3/3/2014 1:46:03 PM

Meh. It'll end when Russia is allowed to stay in Sevastopol.

3/3/2014 3:07:18 PM

WW3 is about to break out over this, and there are no concerns from TWW armchair politicians?

3/3/2014 4:33:58 PM

Russia financial system is already hurting.

We need a good war though. Iraq was lame. Our generation could be the new greatest generation.

3/3/2014 4:39:53 PM

Russia is saying that it didn't give an ultimatum, but they have expanded their control of Crimea and are surrounding government offices and bases.

3/3/2014 5:19:56 PM

I don't know what I think we should do here. Churchill and the international community pretty much gave Hitler Poland, thinking he would stop there. We know what happened afterwards.

Thinking that things couldn't get out of hand and thinking that we'll never see another WW is very naive.

But there's no good out for Kerry or Obama here.

3/3/2014 5:43:48 PM

Not everything is Hitler.

3/3/2014 6:27:12 PM

This invasion is getting pretty brutal guys.



Listen, Russia is a shitty state with bad intentions, but the way the Western media is pushing the "Russian invasion" narrative is manipulative at best and dangerous at worst.

Ukraine is a very divided country, and while there are folks that want to be absorbed by the EU, there is a significant portion of the population (mostly represented by Eastern regions) that either wants nothing to do with the EU or even wants to become part of Russia.

Western outlets are going to tell you that the EU is good and that Russia is bad, hearkening back to WWII and Soviet era fears. In reality, there's very little doubt at this point that the West had a hand in funding "Euromaidan". This would not be the first time that the U.S. and its allies helped support a friendly-to-the-West "revolution", simultaneously revving up the American propaganda machine to convince people that this was a totally spontaneous public outcry for freedom and democracy.

3/3/2014 7:15:35 PM

The best option might be to cede Crimea to Russia, most people there are already ethnic Russians is my understanding. What this means for the rest of Ukraine I don't know (as in, I literally don't know anything about Ukraine's internal political system). If bullets start flying, i doubt things will be as rosy as you want us to believe from that picture.

This of course would be spun as an embarrassment for the US, NATO, and Obama, but might be the best outcome.

OTOH, if Mexico decided to claim parts of the southwest because most people there are Mexican already, that would be completely unacceptable.

Pretty fascinating situation.

3/3/2014 7:28:26 PM

Quit using the "not everything is hitler" crap. Do you not think I know that? But it happened and it can happen again. And if and when it does, it will be when everybody least expects it and when they have their guard down.

Do I think Putin would ever move against the US or western Europe? No. Do I think he desires to have all of the *stan's back? Yes. And he's betting on the international community to do squat about it.

3/3/2014 8:07:21 PM

Putin, nor Russia in general, want "the *stans" back, you idiot.

If anything, they want the former Soviet states that WEREN'T *stans. (i.e., Eastern Europe) Jesus. Go read something.

[Edited on March 3, 2014 at 8:40 PM. Reason : /]

3/3/2014 8:13:38 PM

I would think having a controlling portion of both the Black and Caspian seas would be beneficial. But hey, I'm not a scholar of eastern Europe, as you must be, so I apologize.

3/3/2014 8:21:33 PM

Quote :

"McCain now says the United States should respond to Putin's move in Ukraine by bolstering military ties with the Baltic nations, Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia, and welcome Georgia as a NATO member. "

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA2306O20140304?irpc=932

3/3/2014 10:47:48 PM

"Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran"...

3/3/2014 10:48:49 PM

I wonder what this means for the space program...

3/4/2014 1:34:59 AM

Saw an article talking about the space program issues earier, actually. Debating military intervention is a moot point. We as a country can do nothing. We have one brigade of light infantry for ground forces. That's it. Everyone else is gone due to cuts because the Cold War is over and Russia is our friend now!

3/4/2014 1:37:30 AM

What do you mean we only have a brigade of infantry? That's only like 3000 troops. Plus, I don't see any US troops being on the ground for this. Ukraine can deal with that. We would provide support from the air with bombers, fighters, and cruise missiles. But I don't see that happening unless Putin basically tries to take over Ukraine and kills mass numbers of civilians, by which time WWIII will have pretty much broken out.

[Edited on March 4, 2014 at 2:31 AM. Reason : .]

3/4/2014 2:25:55 AM

^Doubtful it would be WWIII. We wouldn't have support from Germany or France, or from much of the EU for that matter. They will not want to get involved. Plus, doesn't Russia supply Europe with most of its oil?

3/4/2014 6:32:02 AM

Natural Gas

I think the best case scenario here is for Ukraine to cede Crimea and the eastern sections to Russia, and take what's left and align with the EU.

I don't think the EU will sit by and let Russia invade the entire Ukraine, nor will the US or the rest of NATO. Escalation is still a very real possibility, and the results have the potential to drag a lot of countries into a prolonged engagement.

If Russia is smart, they'll keep a stranglehold on Crimea and that's about it. Their naval assets are safe, which was the biggest strategic liability in the initial confrontation. No one else in the world is going to go to war over Crimea, so it's pretty much Russia's at this point.

3/4/2014 7:39:59 AM

Russia has backed off this morning saying that they do not want to annex Crimea. However, they are also saying that the troops in Crimea are not Russian soldiers and news reports contradict that.

3/4/2014 9:49:46 AM

if they're not russian soldiers, who are they?

3/4/2014 10:04:25 AM

talent scouts

3/4/2014 10:13:03 AM

Quote :

"if they're not Russian soldiers, who are they?"

the claim is that they pro-Russian Ukrainians (who are transported on Russian trucks and have air support from Russian helicopters who tell news reporters that they are Russian soldiers)

3/4/2014 10:37:54 AM

I'm late to this party probably, but Putin must be a sociopath...

3/4/2014 10:43:32 AM

this is much less sociopathic than some of our modern wars. hell, we bombed a mental hospital when we invaded Grenada.

[Edited on March 4, 2014 at 10:55 AM. Reason : .]

3/4/2014 10:54:16 AM

Quote :

"However, they are also saying that the troops in Crimea are not Russian soldiers and news reports contradict that."

how do you know who to believe?

[Edited on March 4, 2014 at 11:03 AM. Reason : .]

3/4/2014 11:02:41 AM

you can't, but do you really think some unkown pro-russia ukrainian militia is capable of taking over multiple airports without firing shots?

3/4/2014 11:07:50 AM

I think the consensus belief is that even if they are not Russian soldiers, they are being aided heavily and supplied by Russia.

3/4/2014 11:10:21 AM

^
fair enough, that makes sense. but if that is the case, putin isn't lying.

[Edited on March 4, 2014 at 11:26 AM. Reason : .]

3/4/2014 11:25:34 AM

Quote :

"What do you mean we only have a brigade of infantry? That's only like 3000 troops."

I mean there is one airborne brigade in Europe. I did misspeak slightly - keep forgetting 2nd SCR is still hanging around. So you would have, in total, two light infantry battalions (and I do mean light - only the mortars and the weapons company are motorized), three mechanized battalions, two RSTA battalions, and support personnel.

So, you'll have a handful of Javelins and TOW-Mounted light vehicles. These are all well and good for defensive operations in open terrain, but you're not assaulting a modern armored task force with Javelins and TOWs. Compared to BTRs, the Stryker has less range, firepower, and mobility.

So, we could put about 7,000 Soldiers on the ground (not including additional logistics enablers needed for sustained operations), of which only a portion are combat personnel. However, they can't move fast, and they don't have the firepower to take on an armored task force of comparable size. You could, I supposed, factor in the GRF, which would give you another light infantry brigade, but you would just be making a bigger speedbump.

Oh, and to top it all off, NONE of these formations have organic anti-air capabilities. There is one ADA battalion in theater, and the US hasn't had a viable short-range AA system in years. Stingers are what we call 'revenge weapons,' meaning you can't really use them until they're already on top of you and most likely done their damage. Which means your one CAB (which again, only a portion of the CAB is Apaches) is tied up defending the ground task force and not going on the offensive.

To really top it all off, we have no BCTs in CONUS who are far along enough in the ARFORGEN model to be considered combat-capable And, while we still have pre-positioned stocks in Europe, it still takes time to pull them out of storage and get guys rolling.

Bottom-line, if Russia wanted to fuck shit up, the US alone couldn't stop them.

Now, on the issue of air assets - we're not fighting some third-rate tinpot dictatorship. Russia has no-shit ADA assets, and we're...a little rusty on our SEAD. So much so that in NATO, the primary SEAD mission doesn't even fall on us, and those countries aren't exactly 100% on the capability. Besides all of this, however, is the simple fact that if you want to win a war, you have to have a guy on the ground with a pointy thing attached to the end of his bullet launcher. Aircraft can't control terrain. So again, without NATO nutting up, we would be nothing more than a speedbump.



[Edited on March 4, 2014 at 12:08 PM. Reason : .]

3/4/2014 12:03:46 PM

Ok, that's a lot of military jargon there. I was able to google most of it, but can you explain BTCs, and ARFORGEN?

3/4/2014 4:28:52 PM

Quote :

"I think the consensus belief is that even if they are not Russian soldiers, they are being aided heavily and supplied by Russia."

I really believe that they are Russian Naval Infantry likely based in Sevastopol. The kitting is standard for Russian regulars, but more importantly, they've been extremely disciplined as one would expect for professional soldiers not mere militiamen. Video clips of their activities, such as the way they handle breaches of buildings, show that they clearly know what they're doing. That, and the fleet of Hinds and Hips that have been circling the city; really doubt that militias are going to be running around with attack and transport helicopters.

3/4/2014 5:32:14 PM

maybe russia will be kind enough to send in their militias to kick out these militias and bring stability to a nation that is on the brink of a violent civil war that could jeopardize the stability of the entire region.

3/4/2014 8:40:10 PM

An important read: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/transcript-putin-defends-russian-intervention-in-ukraine/2014/03/04/9cadcd1a-a3a9-11e3-a5fa-55f0c77bf39c_story.html

Putin's stance is that the ousted President is still the legitimate leader. An agreement was made that there would be elections to replace this President, but the opposition staged a violent takeover before that time came.

3/4/2014 8:43:09 PM

Putin is the president most Americans wish they had

3/5/2014 12:37:15 AM

^ that would never work, the media would nitpick all his personal spending habits and complain he spends too much time riding horses, and all that kind of stuff.

3/5/2014 12:42:26 AM

http://dai.ly/x19lefj

3/5/2014 10:00:08 AM

I'm tired of hearing the GOP windbags spout out rhetoric that the US needs to be more aggressive on the situation. Let the EU handle Russia.

3/5/2014 12:28:42 PM

I'm a GOP windbag, and I don't think anybody needs to be more aggressive. I just think in this game of chess, Kerry is outmatched. I hope that won't be the case, and that if we and the EU can present a unified front against this supposed invasion, it might just fade away.

More aggressive? This is a very serious situation and all parties involved should be treading lightly.

3/5/2014 1:05:00 PM

Kerry may or may not be outmatched, but we don't have a very good position regardless of who is in his seat

3/5/2014 1:06:37 PM

You people watch too many movies.

3/5/2014 1:26:59 PM

For all of the things I don't like about his viewpoints, he doesn't take them from Hollywood.

3/5/2014 2:07:15 PM