Quote :

"a mustang is a pony car"

Bingo

9/23/2005 7:38:01 PM

my insurance treats mustang as sports car. every imaginable site/magazine that reviews cars places V8 mustang under sports cars.

it is retarted to even discuss this


^^^^^^3000GT VR4 weighs 3800lbs. bugatti veyron weighs 4100lbs. whats your point?

[Edited on September 23, 2005 at 7:39 PM. Reason : ff]

9/23/2005 7:38:13 PM

neither are sports cars

9/23/2005 7:39:27 PM

nationwide said my x-gf's mustang was classified as a family car

the V6 mustang which is probably the most common is definetly not a pony car...I'll agree the GT and models above that are in that category, but definetly not the base model

9/23/2005 7:40:09 PM

Quote :

"3000GT VR4 weighs 3800lbs. bugatti veyron weighs 4100lbs. whats your point"

the VR4 is also AWD and handles damn well for its weight..stock vs stock it'll kill a GT in pretty much every way

9/23/2005 7:41:13 PM

Get a Z28. Fastest stock budget sports car you can find. Love mine, even if does fuck up sometimes.

How the hell is a Miata a fucking sports car and a Stang or Camaro aren't? I mean come on a Miata can get outrun by a stock auto V-6 of either.

9/23/2005 7:49:05 PM

^^V6 mustang is trash. im talking about V8 models. stock for stock V8 mustang is equal or better in all acceleration runs. handling is another story.

[Edited on September 23, 2005 at 7:50 PM. Reason : ff]

9/23/2005 7:50:04 PM

muscle car != sports car

9/23/2005 7:51:08 PM

Quote :

"Get a Z28. Fastest stock budget sports car you can find. Love mine, even if does fuck up sometimes. How the hell is a Miata a fucking sports car and a Stang or Camaro aren't? I mean come on a Miata can get outrun by a stock auto V-6 of either. "

Z28 is not a sports car.


and neither a mustang or a camaro can outrun, say, that Suburban that Lingenfelter built a while back. does that mean that a Suburban is a sports car? of course not.

a Miata is about as pure of an example of a sports car as you will find.

9/23/2005 7:54:00 PM

muscle car is colloquial if you wish.....insurance, consumer reports, edmunds who the fuck ever...does not have that section.

9/23/2005 7:54:29 PM

well yeah, we're talking about what the gearhead community defines as a "sports car", not what insurance companies think.

they pretty much hate anything cool, anyway.

9/23/2005 7:58:48 PM

Quote :

"sports car n. An automobile equipped for racing, especially an aerodynamically shaped one-passenger or two-passenger vehicle having a low center of gravity and steering and suspension designed for precise control at high speeds."

9/23/2005 7:59:40 PM

^^ok. even so... you are telling me that stock miata is a sports car and mustang cobra, GT or mach 1 are not?

mustang is better on lateral g's, acceleration, on track, maybe even braking on later models.

9/23/2005 8:07:24 PM

yep, with the exception of the Cobra R.

9/23/2005 8:18:40 PM

Then I guess as a sports car the Miata fucking sucks if it gets beaten by us "family car" drivers.

9/23/2005 8:20:05 PM

well, i guess since there are diesel trucks running in the 12s, Mustangs and Camaros are shitty drag racers.


Sports cars aren't defined by test track numbers.

9/23/2005 8:24:27 PM

nor they are by IRS alone

9/23/2005 8:27:45 PM

i agree (Lotus 7 is a sports car by ANY definition)

Sports Cars:

Miata
MR2
914/911/Boxster/944
S2000
EVO/STi (arguably, but i'd say so)
Corvette (except for automatic, although definitely on the border of being a GT)
Elise
RX-7
240Z
Lotus/Caterham 7


[Edited on September 23, 2005 at 8:34 PM. Reason : asdfasdfa]

[Edited on September 23, 2005 at 8:36 PM. Reason : sadf]

9/23/2005 8:28:50 PM

I'm still confused how this definition:

Quote :

"an aerodynamically shaped one-passenger or two-passenger vehicle having a low center of gravity and steering and suspension designed for precise control at high speeds"

doesn't apply to my Camaro? Its sleek as hell, has a low center of gravity, and certainly doesn't have the suspension and steering system of an Accord or my LeSabre. So wouldn't that definition make it and unfortunately the Mustang a sports car?

9/23/2005 8:29:42 PM

the suspension isn't anything special on a camaro...drive a miata or s2000 sometime.

and sure as hell isn't on a mustang...you sit higher in one of those things than most family cars that honda makes..

[Edited on September 23, 2005 at 8:34 PM. Reason : asdf]

9/23/2005 8:33:36 PM

Never said it was any wonderful suspension. But compared to my Buick LeSabre (definitely a family car) and many of the other cars I drive at work, its a LOT more of a sport suspension.

I will agree about the suspension on the Mustang being more like a sedan. And how you seem to ride on top of the 'Stang instead of sitting in it like in the Z.

I'm not really trying to argue, I guess I'm just confused.

[Edited on September 23, 2005 at 8:39 PM. Reason : ]

9/23/2005 8:38:46 PM

Z28s are huge, and their handling is somewhere between USS Nimitz and EXXON Valdez.

great straight-line platform, but not a sports car.

9/23/2005 8:40:57 PM

Quote :

"he will go through owning 4 cars in that time mark my words"

what the hell? i dont get rid of cars till they die

i guess theres a chane i go to an e32 before then but i'll probably just keep this car as my regular driver. i mean my original plan was drive this for 2 years before getting something a little nicer and thats what i plan on doing (maybe even stretch it out to 3 years if i dont find anything i really like)

9/23/2005 8:47:14 PM

^^thats relative...

i can say that lotus elise, s2000 all the ones you listed handle like '92 buick skylark in comparison to atom or better yet lets be ignorant and call F1 the only real sports car.

there is always something better, which is the reason there are good, better and best sports car.

9/23/2005 8:53:33 PM

i live rear axle, american 2+2 pony car is not a sports car

9/23/2005 8:54:50 PM

^great rebuttal

9/23/2005 8:56:04 PM

if you drive an s2k and an SS back to back, and try and tell me they are the same type of car, i will look you in the eyes and tell you that you are on drugs.

[Edited on September 23, 2005 at 8:59 PM. Reason : adfs]

9/23/2005 8:58:59 PM

if you drive an elise and an atom back to back, and try and tell me they are the same type of car, i will look you in the eyes and tell you that you are on drugs.

9/23/2005 9:00:53 PM

what's the definition of a "pony car"????

and i think we can stop this trifling discussion of what is a sports car and what is not. "sports car" is NOT a scientific term, so it is stupid looking it up in the dictionary. this is not a black and white issue, and there is no central classification authority, so if someone says a mustang V8 is a sports car, and you say it is not, YOU ARE AN IDIOT. for them IT IS, and for you, IT IS NOT. just like the stupid discussions that have taken place here before about what is a "supercar".

i think the person who made the thread meant sporty car.

btw, the dictionary definition pretty much excludes any 2+ passenger car. so does that mean the following are NOT sports cars:

MCLAREN F1
Supra TT
RX-8
3000 GT VR-4

????

now do you see how stupid and SUBJECTIVE this discussion is???

the only mandatory requirement for a sports car according to that dictionary definition is:

An automobile equipped for racing

HOW MANY CARS FIT THAT???

the rest of the properties mentioned are desirable, not mandatory, according to the dictionary.

and anyway, there are THOUSANDS of dictionaries, that means THOUSANDS of unique definitions. so what's the point anyway?

TO RECAP:

This is not a black and white issue.

A sports car means different things to different people.

This is a stupid discussion.

HELP THE GUY WHO MADE THE THREAD FIND A CAR.

9/23/2005 9:01:05 PM

^^^^^^notice that i included the 240Z in that list.

^^^exactly.

^^not so much

^strictly speaking, a Supra, and even moreso a 3000GT, are GTs--not sports cars (unless you want to consider that a subgroup of "sports car"). the part you are right about is that it's not a perfectly defined, scientific, easily defined thing.

but of this much i am sure. neither a mustang or a camaro are sports cars.

[Edited on September 23, 2005 at 9:04 PM. Reason : asdfasdf]

9/23/2005 9:01:28 PM

^^Nice job Trap.

Yea if he wanted something that was cheap and sporty, you can't beat an F-Body. Not the prettiest things inside, but they'll whip the shit outta just about anything in its price class and a lot that cost more.

BTW on the thing about how the Camaro is only good in a straight line, I was looking at this Edmunds comparison test with a Z-28, Mustang Bullitt, RSX Type-S, Prelude SH, Cougar Zn, Eclipise GT, Celica GT-S, and GTI GLS 1.8T:

http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=47901/pageNumber=21

On the 600' slalom test the tubby Z-28 outdid all the other cars. Granted they have smaller engines, but they were in the same price range as the "muscle cars" and all are supposed to be better on the roadcourse than the muscle cars. It looks like the Bullitt was able to hang with the pack but the Camaro far and away did better than the rest.

Hence why I don't see how it doesn't perform good when you start turning.

[Edited on September 23, 2005 at 9:11 PM. Reason : ]

9/23/2005 9:10:59 PM

Quote :

"A solstice? Jesus"

WTF IS WRONG WITH A SOLSTICE?

9/23/2005 9:20:50 PM

sharkwing1, I haven't done any track events with PCA (let alone racing) as of yet. It is something I'd like to get into, but there's a few other clubs I would rather/do run with. Now for wheel to wheel racing as opposed to just solo track days, working on it...
Ahmet

9/23/2005 9:27:49 PM

Quote :

"Roadsters are small two seat convertible sports cars. Some have removable hard tops too. A car like the Mazda Miata would be considered a roadster."

9/23/2005 9:28:44 PM

mustangs and f-bodys are both pony cars

9/23/2005 9:34:06 PM

A Mustang or an F-body is a sporty car. A V8 of either of them might be considered a muscle car. While pony car was a term brought about by the Mustang, I'd argue that it has no meaning in today's world. They're not sports cars.

Oh, and to Nighthawk's post, an Accord (well maybe not a new one, but one of the older, smaller ones) probably handles better than a Mustang or F-body.

9/23/2005 11:16:05 PM

i like the old british definition of a sports car..its something like


"A car, that in a pinch, can be raced"

9/24/2005 1:15:35 PM

Quote :

"and certainly doesn't have the suspension and steering system of an Accord or my LeSabre"

Yeah you're right, the Accord has a much better and sophisticated suspension.

A sports car imo is a car that is designed from the ground up to handle and perform well above all else. Passenger comfort and space are secondary concerns. Excellent handling, low weight, and good power to weight ratio are what emphasis is put on, in that order.

9/25/2005 10:46:11 AM

rustang 5.0

[Edited on September 25, 2005 at 1:36 PM. Reason : most bang for your buck]

9/25/2005 1:34:21 PM

stupid necks think GTs and Z28s are sports cars.

9/25/2005 3:51:21 PM

2000 miata w/ 26k miles in excellent condition for $6750

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/car/99901517.html

(not affiliated)

9/25/2005 5:26:37 PM

Quote :

"How the hell is a Miata a fucking sports car and a Stang or Camaro aren't? I mean come on a Miata can get outrun by a stock auto V-6 of either."

Uhhhh, maybe at a drag race, but that shouldn't really be considering racing anyways :-D.

/me dodges flames

A miata would never get beat by a v6/auto stang or camaro on a real track, autocross, or anything where you had to use the steering wheel for something rather than holding on. Even at autocrosses I usually beat all of the stangs and camaros, no matter how much power they have behind the wheel. The more you have to turn, the less of an advantage those cars have.

9/25/2005 5:38:24 PM

how is that not racing?

driving cars, predetermined route, timed competition, fastest guy wins...

9/25/2005 8:15:19 PM

I'm just kidding, since we're arguing over the meaning of things :]. Two old guys seeing who can take out their dentures the fastest is racing... some things just require more talent than others.

9/26/2005 1:11:53 AM

do you rice apologists have any idea how silly it sounds to deny a Camaro the title "Sports Car" while permitting it to a Miata?

I think it's safe to say you've gone way too fucking far trying to divert attention from the fact that your bumblebee fourbangers can't burn out without a cluth drop from over 5k. Sure, torque might not be everything, but do you ever get tired of saying that to yourself as a detuned early 80s V8's 300ft*lbs lunges past your 43ft*lbs from a light? I bet the dude with the V8 spends a lot less time replacing cluthes, too.

It's always apples and oranges with you fags. Never "let's both get in the V8 RWDs and autocross," even though it's supposed to be "about skill"... always "I bet you won't race my Miata at an autocross!11" I bet you won't race the V8 at the strip, either, shitkicker, so what's the point?

edit: not really that much at you, Justin, just the general "el oh el its not a sports car if it has power" theme people are trying to establish in here

[Edited on September 28, 2005 at 4:46 AM. Reason : *]

9/28/2005 4:41:54 AM

Well many people (yourself included it appears) have different justifications for what makes a "sports car". You and I would clearly disagree. To me, it wouldn't matter if grandpa's Caddy came with a 7+liter engine and can do a mean burnout has more torque than a miata. One is a sports car, one isn't, and will not be regadless of how fast it is or how well it can do burnouts. There's several Benzes nowadays, the AMG version of the wagons can out accelerate AND outbrake, if not outhandle a miata (and I'm picking the undisputed sports car here, but feel free to insert any medicore performing one of your choice), but again, not a sports car.
Ahmet

9/28/2005 6:13:14 AM

^Hey I personally wasn't taking issue with something like a Caddy being a sports car. Something like that or a big ass sedan with a bigger motor in general I would be less inclined to call a sports car. Maybe a CTS-V or something like that, but part of the definition stated earlier was a car that was aerodynamically shaped and designed for racing. A Magnum, 300, Caddy are all pretty much designed as a sedan. But the newer Camaros and the Mustang look and ride nothing like a sedan (well the Mustang might some, but not the Camaro).

But again thats just my opinion.

9/28/2005 6:42:16 AM

grandpa's caddy comes with a 8.2L V8 motherfucker

and it burns out at 45, down hill, with a tailwind

Quote :

"has more torque than a miata"

more like, has more torque than a good half dozen Miatas :-p

[Edited on September 28, 2005 at 8:47 AM. Reason : *]

9/28/2005 8:46:26 AM

solid rear axle=sports car

9/28/2005 9:31:55 AM

hahaha, no.

9/28/2005 9:34:36 AM