4th sounds about right to me. I do think we will lose some OOC games that are unexpected but think the team will have it together for ACC play.

10/25/2005 12:46:34 PM

on paper i think we should be 3rd or 4th, but they dont play the games on paper....

obviosuly im picking Duke, Wake and BC ahead of us...

i dont see any reason VT and Miami won't be better than us...

Maryland has been down for a few seasons but i think this is the year they get their act together a little bit... they have some good depth and they got that bad ass SG (who?)

UNC ahead of us based strictly on the ROy Williams factor...


i just see us underachieving in the regular season AGAIN.... i dont like it when a one man team loses its one man.... i gotta see if anyone steps up.... a team thats lacking a true PG (face it bethel is gonna miss games) and a true scorer always worries me

10/25/2005 12:52:35 PM

You say that our weakness is not having a go-to guy or a PG, but then say that we'll finish below teams that lack exactly that, even moreso than us....like UNC, Maryland, VT, etc.

I can see Wake, maybe Miami finishing ahead of us, but UNC Maryland and VT? They have nothing left...

If we can't finish above UNC at least this year, time to hang it up pals.

[Edited on October 25, 2005 at 1:01 PM. Reason : .]

10/25/2005 1:00:44 PM

UNC has roy...

and they play a style of basketball that helps you win rather than hinders your ability to win

10/25/2005 1:02:08 PM

You're probably right. Talent and experience doesn't really matter that much anyways. UNC will likely repeat for the NC.

10/25/2005 2:27:11 PM

haha, that same team went 8-20 when McCants, May, and Felton were freshbabies.

10/25/2005 3:11:42 PM

i didnt say UNC would repeat

ive got them going about 7-9 in the conference and us probably doing the same...

the difference is we will do it with talent and they will do it with coaching.



[Edited on October 25, 2005 at 4:23 PM. Reason : a]

10/25/2005 4:22:34 PM

^I agree with this.

We went 7-9 in the ACC last year, and I really think we will struggle with scoring this year. The only reason we don't finish in the bottom of the conference is because the rest of the ACC dropped so much.

10/26/2005 2:04:54 AM

Quote :

"Theres no mention of Gavin in that article, he might not be back."

Considering I just walked by him on campus like two days ago, I don't think he's gone anywhere that he won't be back from.

10/26/2005 2:33:35 AM

Quote :

"haha, that same team went 8-20 when McCants, May, and Felton were freshbabies."

wrong...that was the yr before they came in

10/26/2005 3:18:22 AM

who cares?

unc isnt going to do anything this year

10/26/2005 3:26:28 AM

If you stopped blowing Royboy for a few minutes, you'd see that there's no way his "god-like" coaching ability will be enough to make this inexperienced team, untalented, unproven team as good as a more experienced and talented N.C. State team this year.


[Edited on October 26, 2005 at 10:07 AM. Reason : .]

10/26/2005 10:02:00 AM

^^^http://tarheelblue.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/archive/unc-m-baskbl-sched-2002.html


they still sucked..around a 500 record

10/26/2005 5:21:56 PM

No way Wake finishes ahead of us. This is how I see the standings:

1) Duke: Way too much talent. You've got Shelden and JJ who could challenge for ACC POY. Solid role players in Melchionni, Dockery, and McClure. Great freshmen in Paulus, McRoberts, and company. Demarcus Nelson has the potential to be a really good player. However, I don't think they are going to be invincible like everyone is proclaiming. Paulus has to be as good as advertised, because Dockery won't take them to the Final Four. Their depth will also depend on how well their freshmen can play. We know McRoberts and Paulus will get a lot of PT, but will the other young guys step up? I think need Demarcus to be the scoring threat he was suppose to be coming out of high school.

2) Boston College: I want to put State here, but I think the Wolfpack might struggle a little early on trying to develop some identity without Hodge. At the end of the year I think we'll be the better team, but right now BC has too much experience.

3) State: This is the deepest and most talented team Sendek has had. The only thing he is lacking right now is that go-to guy that he has always had (CC, Grundy, Hodge). I know we're better all around than we've ever been, but we need to develop a go-to guy to get an ACC Championship and to go far in the tourney. Bethel, Cam, Atsur, Grant...someone needs to step up. We also need to avoid the yearly injury bug...hopefully Bethel can stay healthy, because he is extremely important to this year's success. Big Ced having a big year would be huge and the freshmen need to step up and provide solid depth.

4) UNC: They've got talent and they've got great coaching. They're inexperienced, but I can't see a team with this much talent and Roy Williams coaching dropping any lower than 4th in the ACC. Again, a lot depends on their freshmen, but these guys are good. And I think Reyshaun Terry has a good year along with David Noel giving them some upperclassmen leadership.

5) Wake: Losing Paul and Downey will hurt. They are extremely thin at guard, and with Gray handling the point, it will take away a lot from his scoring. I would say that losing those two guards could help them because they will finally feed the ball into Eric Williams more, but I don't know if Gray and company can consistently get him the ball. Their recruiting has been weak the past few years and it should show. However, I do think Gray and Williams can carry them into the ACC tourney. It could be an interesting year for the Deacs.

6) Maryland: Addition by subtraction for the Terps this year...but not by that much. I don't think McCray or Caner-Medley will be first team All-ACC, but Maryland will need at least one of them to be. I think Ledbetter will struggle to run the point in ACC play and Garrison and Ibekwe are too inconsistent. DJ Stawberry should provide a huge boost if he can become more of a scoring threat and handle some of the point guard duties. If Ibekwe and Garrison don't have good years, they'll struggle to make the tourney for the 2nd straight year. Their recruiting has suffered the last two years and it will show this year. Gary will have to have one of his best coaching years.

T-7) Miami: Diaz has 1st team All-ACC potential and their whole team has the potential to catch fire at any time. If they catch fire they can beat anybody, but they are still too inconsistent and erratic as a whole. They are also too guard-oriented. They need to develop more in the paint to be better all-around.

T-7) Virginia Tech: Surprised everyone last year, but I don't think anyone will be caught off-guard this year. They still have a solid team, but there just isn't enough talent on the team to finish in the top half of the league.

9) Georgia Tech: Losing Jack hurt...bad. With him they have the best returning point guard in the ACC and perhaps the country. Now they are going to have to rely on guys that I really don't think can cut it as point guards in the ACC...or unproven freshmen. They just lost way too much. Hewitt has recruited well the past few years, so they do have talent...but they don't have the Duke/UNC talent that will keep them in the top half of the league. Tech will miss the tourney this year unless some guys come out of nowhere and have monster seasons.

10) Clemson: Solid guards in Vernon Hamilton and Shawan Robinson. Decent frontcourt with Mays and Akingbala. They also have a pretty good recruiting class coming in with Powell and Rivers. I also really liked Sam Perry when he came in the games last year...great spark of energy off the bench. I like Oliver Purnell too. They're going to beat some good teams in the top half of the ACC this year...I think they have the potential to pass Vtech and Miami.

11) Virginia: I really like their guards; Singletary, Reynolds, Bannister. But that's about it. Minter is alright, but after their guards, this team doesn't really have much. Their backcourt will have to carry them through the ACC, which I think is a possibility, but the guards are also really small and will have a tough time on the defensive side of the ball. Should be a tough first year for their new coach.

12) FSU: I'm having a tough time with this team. I think they have talent that can put them in the middle of the ACC, but they just keep dissappointing. A couple years ago everyone was picking FSU as a rising team in the ACC, but they just can't seem to get out of the cellar. They have good guards in Galloway and Swann. Al Thorton is a beast down low and Alexander Johnson is solid. Diego Romero is suppose to be pretty good and they have a strong recruiting class coming in. I'm just not confident in their coaching staff and they seem to play like a bunch of individuals. Until they prove to me that they can make their way up to the top of the ACC, I have to pick them last.

10/26/2005 5:27:20 PM

Quote :

"Paulus has to be as good as advertised, because Dockery won't take them to the Final Four."

Eh, I think if Dockery can step it up a notch from last year, he will be as good as any guard in the country. He improved a SHITTON over the last offseason, he probably will get better this year. Plus, rumor has it from the Duke camp that Paulus couldn't bring the ball up court for the first few WEEKS with Dockery guarding him. Not that he isnt still good, because i'm sure he will learn, but maybe those freshman mistakes will hurt them more than we're expecting (hopefully)

10/26/2005 5:34:42 PM

Guards win the ACC and the NCAA for you.

Reddick is as good as they get, but offensively, that's all Duke has right now. Defensively, Dockery is the truth. But he's about as bad offensively as Duke has had in the backcourt since Wojo (at least Wojo could distribute). Duke will need two of the following to step up big if they are going to win the NCAA next year...Nelson, Dockery, or Paulus.

10/26/2005 5:45:53 PM

Quote :

"Guards win the ACC and the NCAA for you."

This is true for the most part. Look at Illinois last year. Had very little inside game outside of Augustine, and he wasnt that great. But with 3 NBA guards in Luther Head, Dee Brown, and Deron Williams, they dominated. UNC had Felton, McCants, and Melvin Scott, which werent shabby. For this reason, NCSU could easily be 2nd this year. Who really has a better combination of guards than us? Atsur, Bethel, Bennerman, Grant, and now Fells. Thats not too bad.

[Edited on October 26, 2005 at 5:54 PM. Reason : NBA]

10/26/2005 5:53:34 PM

I'm still picking us 8th...

i just dont see any reason to put us ahead of Wake, VT, or Miami....

UNC and Maryland I could see us possibly being better then, but you wont see me predicting it

10/26/2005 5:54:12 PM

Thats why nobody cares what you think.

10/26/2005 6:18:36 PM

^^I saw where you said we were a one-man team last year. And it's easy to see why you would say that as Hodge was the leader or up high in a lot of our categories.

But I think the key is that we weren't a one man team because we needed to be. We were a one man team because we chose to be that way. There were a number of guys on this team that can be the leading scorer game in and game out. We are extremely deep and talented. As I said in an earlier post, if we can find a go-to guy that we can go to at the end of the game, then it can be a special season. If not, then we'll flirt with the tourney and finish around 5th or 6th.

But this team is way too talented to finish in 8th place. And Virginia Tech and Miami are not that good (Virginis Tech especially). And Wake's guard play is going to take a HUGE hit. Everyone knows Chris Paul was good, but they underestimate the loss of Taron Downey...not just because of his talent, but because Justin Gray will have to run the point. Only way Wake has a strong season if their freshmen Dukes steps up...which is a big IF.

[Edited on October 26, 2005 at 6:20 PM. Reason : ^]

10/26/2005 6:20:16 PM

VT lost a bunch of seniors too and King isnt playing basketball this year either.

10/26/2005 6:25:06 PM

i think NC State is the big if

if we find a go to guy
if Gavin Grant can stop turning it over
if Evtimov can guard ANYONE
if Herb will actually play Bennerman
if Bethel is ever healthy
if Atsur can make some shots
if Simmons improves vastly
if we dont miss Larry Hunter
if we get ANYTHING out of our freshmen

Quote :

"no one cares what you think"

thats cool, just be prepared to be disappointed just like the football fans were.

Quote :

" The offense looks like another disaster to me. It starts with the offensive line. They were atrocious last season. We couldn't run or pass protect. I don't see it improving by leaps and bounds. Next you look at the QB's. You have Jay Davis who probably has the self-confidence of a fat girl right now. Marcus Stone averages 1.1 seconds in the pocket before he tucks the ball and runs. Next you look at the WR's. They pretty much suck. Tramain Hall is a playmaker but a horrible #1 due to his size. I really liked what i saw of that freshman last year but since I cant even remember his name right now there must have been something wrong with him. Losing Richard Washington is a big problem. Also, we have a new coordinator. ANyhting is an upgrade over Mazzone, but you can't expect our offense to be in sync right away under a new system. Having 5 stud running backs doesn't matter much when it's 3rd and eight. "

Quote :

"7-21-05"

[Edited on October 26, 2005 at 6:46 PM. Reason : a]

10/26/2005 6:42:05 PM

so....im sure nobody else thought the same thing. We just HOPED that it would be different. You are full of yourself my friend, now go away.

10/26/2005 6:51:13 PM

nah i mean we could technically finish as high as 2nd...

i just dont see that happening...

im simply drawing my conclusions based on what ive seen from Herb the past decade.

10/26/2005 6:58:27 PM

I don't see us finishing 2nd either, but to say that a team like VT will finish ahead of us is ridiculous, especially when they lost their 2 or 3 best players and we raped them last year when we were healthy.

10/26/2005 7:01:44 PM

In all fairness, you would have thought it was ridiculous if i told you VT would be better than us last year too...


bet against herb in the regular season until he gives you a reason not to...

10/26/2005 7:04:11 PM

no shit...thats like predicting us to beat FSU every year in football...its just stupid. You don't predict upsets, they just happen.


Oh yeah...but VT was NOT better than us last year...thats right.

[Edited on October 26, 2005 at 7:24 PM. Reason : ]

10/26/2005 7:23:43 PM

Quote :

"In all fairness, you would have thought it was ridiculous if i told you VT would be better than us last year too.."

And they weren't....what's your point??

10/26/2005 7:34:05 PM

'04-'05 ACC conference Standings

8-8 Virginia Tech

7-9 NC State



^ How quickly you kids forget....



and dont give me any "well we made the tourney and they didnt".... clearly we are predicting the order of finish here... not the RPI rankings

10/26/2005 11:35:01 PM

you are a retarded fuck


/thread

10/26/2005 11:39:07 PM

Quote :

"I'm still picking us 8th... "

and to think, you had behaved so well lately

10/26/2005 11:39:23 PM

We made the Sweet 16 last year, beating the defending national champions. We were better than VT.

10/26/2005 11:42:50 PM

Quote :

"We are extremely deep and talented. As I said in an earlier post, if we can find a go-to guy that we can go to at the end of the game, then it can be a special season."

Sorry, I don't see it. and go-to guys don't just magically materialize. Who on this team has shown the ability to create his own shot? To make clutch baskets? We are gonna live and die by the 3 next year, as usual.


ps

rallydurham wins this thread


[Edited on October 26, 2005 at 11:54 PM. Reason : by a landslide]

10/26/2005 11:49:49 PM

I don't believe you

[Edited on October 26, 2005 at 11:52 PM. Reason : what, we're on?]

10/26/2005 11:52:12 PM

we finish 2nd this year and 1st next year

and herb is the shit and i wouldnt have said that 3 years ago
he recruits well by pickin disciplined recruits and he picks recruits that fit well in his princeton offense

10/27/2005 12:11:53 AM

you are setting yourself up for disappointment

10/27/2005 12:21:34 AM

ncsu fans never learn. The mere fact that everyone has high hopes means we are going to be garbage.

10/27/2005 12:22:37 AM

Quote :

"In all fairness, you would have thought it was ridiculous if i told you VT would be better than us last year too..."

This is what you said. Now if you had said this:

Quote :

"In all fairness, you would have thought it was ridiculous if i told you VT would be better than us last year too... have finished higher in the ACC standings than us last year"

Bottom line is that you said VT was the better team than us last year and they weren't. Everyone knows that, that's why we were picked for the NCAA tourney and they really weren't that close.

And yes, we are clearly talking about the order of finish in the ACC...this year. And I highly question your college basketball knowledge if you think Virginia Tech is going to finish ahead of NC State this year.

Quote :

"Who on this team has shown the ability to create his own shot? "

Tony Bethel, Gavin Grant, Cameron Bennerman, Engin Atsur (on occasions).

Quote :

"To make clutch baskets?"

It's kind of hard to do that when you've had Hodge doing it for the past 3 years. We'll find out this year.

Quote :

"We are gonna live and die by the 3 next year, as usual. "

Good lord. I hear this every year. And every year we either get better in the ACC or go further in the NCAA tourney.

10/27/2005 12:25:05 AM

yep, thats why i choose to predict us 8th so i can be pleasantly surprised if we manage to finish 6th...

ahead of such storied programs like VT and Miami

10/27/2005 12:26:15 AM

Quote :

"ncsu fans never learn. The mere fact that everyone has high hopes means we are going to be garbage."

This is actually the only reason I have somewhat reserved hopes...that and injuries...which can probably be put together.

10/27/2005 12:26:40 AM

Quote :

"Tony Bethel, Gavin Grant, Cameron Bennerman, Engin Atsur (on occasions)."

Don't be silly. Bethel and Bennerman can drive to the basket, but they can't shoot off the dribble or make a fadeaway. Grant couldn't even make 40% of his shots. What does it matter if he can create his own shot when he can't make it. Atsur? Please. He's a spot shooter who gets layups from time to time.

Quote :

"It's kind of hard to do that when you've had Hodge doing it for the past 3 years. We'll find out this year."

Bull fucking shit. We had about 10 close games during the course of the regular season last year, and in each one we had a new guy try his luck at the last second shot. Cam tried and he threw it off the side of the backboard. Atsur got his shot blocked (OK 2 years ago) because we all know he can't create separation from the defender. Evtimov has tried and failed several times...etc

It was ugly at the end of close games last year. We were lucky that Hodge carried us against UConn, but before that we didn't even bother going to him in the end of games because of his poor shooting.

[Edited on October 27, 2005 at 12:36 AM. Reason : !]

10/27/2005 12:35:03 AM

I'm with Fuel/rallydurham - I don't understand how we can have high expectations for a team that is pretty much the same exact mediocre team minus the best player by far and plus a few recruits.

I hope Cam and Atsur can step up and become a scorer but by looking at the last few seasons, can they? Whenever you watched a State game when Hodge wasn't in the game, the shot clock went all the way down to 5 as we passed around midcourt and then somebody threw up a jumpshot.. almost every single time. Not only did Hodge create his own shots off the dribble (which hardly any remaining players can do aside from Grant at times) but he created open looks for others by drawing double/triple teams, something I doubt any of our players now will do. Without open looks from outside, we're screwed unless we mix up our game plan somehow.. unless Ced becomes a beast down low.. or unless these freshmen give us something like that (maybe Fells? I dunno if he's a stand still shooter or not)

and you can't forget Herb Sendek is our coach.

So combine these negative points to the overall decline of the ACC and I think it is right on par to being a sub .500 season.

10/27/2005 1:16:34 AM

Quote :

"Reddick is as good as they get, but offensively, that's all Duke has right now."

Aren't you forgetting potential first team All American Shelden Williams in the paint?

Quote :

"I'm with Fuel/rallydurham - I don't understand how we can have high expectations for a team that is pretty much the same exact mediocre team minus the best player by far and plus a few recruits."

The same mediocre team? The same team that went to the Sweet Sixteen and was ranked #22 or something? Oh, and it's amazing what having a huge returning squad with even more experience can do to improve a team. Just ask Carolina circa 2003-2004.

Add to the returning core being a year older to a good freshman class and the fact that the ACC will be enormously down compared to last year, and we'll be finishing no less than 4th. I'm not proclaiming a 1st or 2nd place finish, but third or fourth is a very reasonable estimate.

[Edited on October 27, 2005 at 9:30 AM. Reason : .]

[Edited on October 27, 2005 at 9:31 AM. Reason : .]

10/27/2005 9:29:23 AM

We make the Sweet Sixteen, what the Herb haters always used as an excuse to fire him, and people still hate. I mean at one point we had what 3 players injured at the same time? Bethel played half of the year, and we were a totally different team when he came back.

I guess now it's, "But Herb's never made the Elite 8."

10/27/2005 9:42:11 AM

Quote :

" Aren't you forgetting potential first team All American Shelden Williams in the paint?"

Offensively on the perimeter. I was talking about their guards in that post.

10/27/2005 9:42:28 AM

I think our season all depends on when the team comes together defensively. We will struggle in close games at the end, but we always have, even with Hodge, we won two of our close games last year that I can remember: @GT(game winning drive by Bethel followed by a missed three by Elder) and luckily in our biggest game of the year against UConn.

Hodge was great and my favorite player in recent memory, but I don't remember too many games where he hit a shot to win a game for us except UConn and sending us to OT @UNC a couple of years ago. I'm sure there were others. He would get big clutch rebounds and hit free throws at the end of games, that's more of what I'm worried about for this season.

I think 4th could happen for us, but wouldn't die if this was a down/rebuilding year, and I think wake is still going to be terrible at defense like they always are, and it's going to kill them at least against teams like us and duke who usually play pretty good defense.

10/27/2005 9:47:11 AM

The sweet 16 is great but it doesn't change the fact we were like 0-6 against the top 25 rpi during the season, an overall rpi of 63 and 7-9 in the acc

10/27/2005 9:56:13 AM

Quote :

"and you can't forget Herb Sendek is our coach. "

nope cant forget we have a coach that is respected, disciplines his players, gets improved results every year from the year before, and got his team to the sweet 16 the last time he tried.

10/27/2005 10:04:21 AM

Quote :

"The sweet 16 is great but it doesn't change the fact we were like 0-6 against the top 25 rpi during the season, an overall rpi of 63 and 7-9 in the acc"

So would you rather have been UConn, top 15 rpi, beat teams like Syracuse and Villanova and bounced in the second round? The rpi is just a tool for tournament seeding and selection. Who gives a crap after we get in. Gonzaga was in the rpi top 10. They made it far .

[Edited on October 27, 2005 at 11:34 AM. Reason : ..]

[Edited on October 27, 2005 at 11:35 AM. Reason : .]

10/27/2005 11:30:14 AM

I'm not hating on Herb Sendek or saying that I hate our basketball team.. this topic is about how we'll do in the ACC in the regular season, and I don't think we'll do very well, thats it

Quote :

"nope cant forget we have a coach that is respected, disciplines his players, gets improved results every year from the year before, and got his team to the sweet 16 the last time he tried. "

Who cares if we went 7-9 in the ACC last year and lost to teams like FSU and UVA at home? Herb Sendek is nice, respected, and he improves. Forget how long it took him to finally make it to a sweet 16 game (which we should've won by 20 but nobody mentions this when they praise Herb Sendek for getting the team that far). When will NC State fans stop accepting mediocrity?

10/27/2005 2:11:39 PM