keep waiting joshua, as soon as he finds some articles on Google you'll have your 'proof'

11/17/2005 2:02:43 PM

Notice all the emoticons coming out to play? It's because you're a JOKE mr. joshua.

11/17/2005 2:07:38 PM

Quote :

"Ignoring the Facts By Richard Cohen Thursday, November 17, 2005; Page A31 In one of the most intellectually incoherent major speeches ever delivered by a minor president, George W. Bush blamed "some Democrats and antiwar critics" last week for changing their minds about the war in Iraq and now saying they were deceived. "It is deeply irresponsible to rewrite the history of how that war began," the president said. Yes, sir, but it is even more deeply irresponsible to rewrite the history of how history was rewritten in the first place. It is the failure to acknowledge this -- not merely that mistakes were made -- that is so troubling about Bush and others in his administration. Yes, the president is right: Foreign intelligence services also thought Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. Yes, he is right that members of Congress drew the same conclusion -- although none of them saw the raw intelligence that the White House did. And he is right, too, that Saddam Hussein had simply ignored more than a dozen U.N. resolutions demanding that he reopen his country to arms inspectors. When it came to U.N. resolutions, Hussein was notoriously hard of hearing. We can endlessly debate the facts of the Iraq war -- and we will. More important, though, is the mind-set of those in the administration, from the president on down, who had those facts -- or, as we shall see, none at all -- and mangled them in the cause of going to war with Iraq. For example, the insistence that Hussein was somehow linked to the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001 -- a leitmotif of Bush administration geopolitical fantasy -- tells you much more than whether this or that fact was right. It tells you that to Bush and his people, the facts did not matter. It did not matter that Mohamed Atta, the leader of the Sept. 11 terrorists, never met with Iraqis in Prague, as high-level Bush officials claimed. It did not matter that Mohamed ElBaradei, head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, was finding no evidence of an Iraqi nuclear weapons program. None of that mattered to Vice President Cheney, who warned of a "reconstituted" nuclear weapons program, promoted the nonexistent Prague meeting and went after legitimate critics with a zealousness that Tony Soprano would have admired: "We will not hesitate to discredit you," Cheney told ElBaradei and Hans Blix, the other important U.N. inspector. ElBaradei recently won the Nobel Peace Prize. Cheney's gonna have to wait for his. Nobody has been repudiated by Bush for incompetence and dishonesty regarding Iraq. Instead, some -- former CIA director George "Slam-Dunk" Tenet comes to mind -- have received presidential medals. What's more, there's evidence aplenty that the sloppy thinking, false analogies and bad history that led to the Iraq war remain the cultural style of the White House. The president's recent speech, for instance, conflates all sorts of terrorist incidents -- from Israel to Chechnya -- neglecting that they are specific to their regions and have nothing to do with al Qaeda. Every bombing somehow becomes an attack on Western values "because we stand for democracy and peace." Oh, stop it! It would be nice, fitting and pretty close to sexually exciting if Bush somehow acknowledged his mistakes and said he had learned from them. But more important -- far more important -- is what this would mean for the conduct of foreign policy from here on out. Repeatedly in his speech, Bush mentioned Syria, Iran and North Korea -- Syria above all. If push comes to shove there, it would be nice to have absolute confidence in American intelligence and the case for possibly widening the war. If we are to go to the mat with North Korea or the increasingly alarming Iran, then, once again, it would be wonderful to have the confidence we once had in the intelligence community -- as imparted to us by our president. Is there or is there not a threatening nuclear weapons program on the horizon? At the moment, no one can have confidence in the Bush administration. It has shown itself inept in the run-up to the war and the conduct of it since. Almost three years into the war, the world is not safer, the Middle East is less stable, and Americans and others die for a mission that is not what it once was and cannot be what it now is called: a fight for democracy. It would be nice, as well as important, to know how we got into this mess -- nice for us, important for the president. It wasn't that he had the wrong facts. It was that the right ones didn't matter."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/16/AR2005111601881.html

[Edited on November 17, 2005 at 2:08 PM. Reason : .]

11/17/2005 2:08:37 PM

^^ Are you a government agent sent to discredit conspiracy theorists?

[Edited on November 17, 2005 at 2:08 PM. Reason : ...]

11/17/2005 2:08:40 PM

How am I "discrediting conspiracy theorists"?

11/17/2005 2:10:09 PM

So you are a government agent?

11/17/2005 2:13:54 PM

Quote :

"Maybe it's due in part to your admitted disinfo agenda against me."

I can't question your ridiculous conclusions?

Quote :

"I don't make it a habit of using name-calling in the place of an argument."

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

11/17/2005 2:23:12 PM

You discredit conspiracy theorists by hyperventilating ad nauseum about everything that happens in the world.

Bush raises the "hook'em horns" to salute the Texas Longhorns marchers in a parade as it goes by? You're right there to cite it as PROOF (caps and all) of his Satanic religious beliefs.

The price of postage stamps moves to $6.66? There you are again, claiming the Satanists have overtaken the US Postal Service.

Basically, you make conspiracy theorists who don't see the Illuminati or NWO behind every little thing that happens in the world--BUT DO BELIEVE SUCH CONSPIRACIES EXIST, look like fringe kooks by association.

11/17/2005 3:15:54 PM

Prisonplanet.com reported on the Postage stamp story, and runs stories on use of the "devil's horn salute" hand signal.

So...if you're going to use that to suggest that I'm a "government agent" trying to discredit all true truthseekers and NWO investigators, then I guess you need to accuse Alex Jones and prisonplanet.com of the same thing.

[Edited on November 17, 2005 at 3:31 PM. Reason : 1]

11/17/2005 3:26:02 PM

Quote :

"How do we know that prisonplanet isn't spreading false conspiracy theories to take attention off of the real conspiracy? "

11/17/2005 3:30:49 PM

And how do you know that they aren't?

11/17/2005 3:35:15 PM

OH HOW WE LOVE PRISONPLANET!!!1

11/17/2005 3:35:46 PM

Quote :

" The danger to our country is grave. The danger to our country is growing. The Iraqi regime possesses biological and chemical weapons. The Iraqi regime is building the facilities necessary to make more biological and chemical weapons. And according to the British government, the Iraqi regime could launch a biological or chemical attack in as little as 45 minutes after the order were given."

Quote :

" The regime has long-standing and continuing ties to terrorist organizations. And there are al Qaeda terrorists inside Iraq. The regime is seeking a nuclear bomb, and with fissile material, could build one within a year. "

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/09/20020926-7.html [BOOGITY BOOGITY FEAR FEAR]

Quote :

" Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us. And there is no doubt that his aggressive regional ambitions will lead him into future confrontations with his neighbors -- confrontations that will involve both the weapons he has today, and the ones he will continue to develop with his oil wealth."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/08/20020826.html

Nah...nothing misleading here.

What does the phrase, "no doubt" mean?

11/17/2005 4:00:34 PM

They sang that song "Hey Baby Hey" as I recall.

11/17/2005 4:01:25 PM

Quote :

"US intelligence on Iraq-Qaeda ties 'intentionally misleading' - document 11.06.2005, 07:08 PM WASHINGTON (AFX) - US military intelligence warned the Bush administration as early as February 2002 that thekey source of information on Al-Qaeda's relationship with Iraq provided 'intentionally misleading' data, according to a declassified report made public. Nevertheless, eight months later, President George W Bush went public with charges that the Iraqi government of Saddam Hussein had trained members of Osama bin Laden's terror network in manufacturing deadly poisons and gases. These same accusations had found their way in February 2003 into then-secretary of state Colin Powell's speech before the UN Security Council, in which he outlined the US rationale for military action against Iraq. 'This newly declassified information provides additional, dramatic evidence that the administration's pre-war statements were deceptive,' said Democrat Carl Levin, the ranking member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, who pushed for partial declassification of the Defense Intelligence Agency document. "

http://www.forbes.com/finance/feeds/afx/2005/11/06/afx2320490.html

11/17/2005 11:40:33 PM

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/9/13/112553.shtml

Quote :

"Iraq Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari kicked off a three-day U.S. visit by flatly asserting that there is "no doubt" the government of Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction. Zebari – an Iraqi Kurd - dismissed the doubts that have been rampant in the Western press over trumped-up intelligence reports. "We are all convinced that Saddam had WMD, because Saddam used WMD on us Iraqis. We have no doubt that he had them, because he used them. Of this, there is no doubt," he said. "

11/18/2005 1:50:38 AM

Yes. Saddam Hussein did have WMDs back in the 1980s and 90s. We know that because we sold them to him. Iraq didn't have WMDs after Desert Storm. We had to tell the UN inspectors to GTFO so we could illegally invade. I'm not going to believe a puppet of our occupying force, and newsmax is a less than credible news source.

11/18/2005 6:48:47 AM

russia has WMD

n. korea has WMD

time for a few new wars i suppose

11/18/2005 6:51:27 AM

This is a poll from last June, that MSNBC has allowed to remain on their site:

Do you believe President Bush misled the nation in order to go to war with Iraq?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8248969/

Wow. 94% "yes" out of 71,000 responses. What is it up to now? 98%?

11/18/2005 8:19:54 AM

No, it's still at 94%, which would lead some people to believe that the president is getting the job done since the numbers on this poll aren't getting worse.

11/18/2005 9:56:23 AM

LOL

11/18/2005 9:58:44 AM

Let's review the Bush apologists' argument...

Quote :

"They ask America to accept the sorry picture of a President and legislators who, apparently, were willing idiots being spoon-fed wrong information by incompetent analysts. If we accept this fairy tale we will have learned nothing from the fiasco in Iraq. http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/111505I.shtml "

Right. The old "whoops!"...the CIA are just incompetent idiots. Oh, and all the other intelligence agencies of the world supposedly "had the same intelligence" also? Well, even if that is true, are you saying that the rest of the world's intelligence agencies are woefully incompetent as well? OR, could it be that many of these intelligence agencies were conspiring to sell the world on invading Iraq? Oh yeah, I'm crazy. I mentioned a conspiracy. Well, see the Downing Street Memos. Britain and America agreed to "fix" intelligence. That's the very definition of a conspiracy. Could it be that only some of the foreign intelligence agencies agreed with the the CIA and British intelligence, and the U.S. government is mischaracterizing the position of the some of the other intelligence agencies, and the truth is that not all intelligence agencies believed Iraq had WMDs?

Anyways, most importantly, don't forget that they just totally ignore things like the forged Niger document or the Downing Street Memos, which clearly show that they planned to invade Iraq and then fabricated and "fixed" intelligence to sell the public on the war.


[Edited on November 18, 2005 at 11:33 AM. Reason : 4]

11/18/2005 11:27:25 AM

Wow. So you really have no idea how the real world works do you?

11/18/2005 11:59:45 AM

Wow. That accusation proves what? If I'm so wrong, why don't you explain why I'm wrong?

11/18/2005 12:02:10 PM

My accusation proves just as much as all of your ridiculous accusations. Give it some thought.

Intelligence agencies around the world conspire together? Can you prove this? You speak about complex entities like governments and intelligence agencies like they are just one person.

11/18/2005 12:08:08 PM

Quote :

"Intelligence agencies around the world conspire together? Can you prove this? "

HAHAHAHA!

Ever heard of the Downing Street Memos? They conclusively show that the American and British governments had agreed to invade Iraq and agreed to "fix" the intelligence to form the pretext to go to war. This is the very definition of a conspiracy.

What cave are you living in? A cave called DENIAL?

11/18/2005 12:14:44 PM

The Downing Street Memo mentions no agreement. I suggest that you read it yourself instead of getting the synopsis from Alex Jones.

11/18/2005 12:23:43 PM

http://www.uruknet.com/?p=18002&hd=0&size=1&l=x

Quote :

"Who Are They Trying to Kid? Most Everybody Knows Bush Lied. The only people buying this Bush/Cheney tent show are the never-say-die entrenched Republicans and those suffering from Alzheimer’s. What a charade, the both of them feigning indignity and charging that the Iraq War critics are irresponsible and unpatriotic for questioning their claims that the 'Neo Con’ Bush gang was only honestly mistaken when they spoon fed bogus prewar intelligence to Congress and the American people. In truth, it is irresponsible and unpatriotic to not question these men who are benefiting by this war and who have not convincingly proven a need for this war, which has cost the lives of two thousand and counting of our bravest men and women as well as the maiming of tens of thousand more. Actually, the Brits ratted on them with the Downing Street 'smoking gun’ memo. The memo came from a meeting of Tony Blair’s top officials discussing by which excuse could Iraq be 'legally’ attacked. Two of them reported on what they were told during their recent talks with Bush’s high officials in Washington. "The intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy." And, the policy was to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by claims of terrorism and WMD’s. "

11/21/2005 9:21:08 AM

Quote :

"The Downing Street Memo mentions no agreement. I suggest that you read it yourself instead of getting the synopsis from Alex Jones."

I didn't say that the agreement was referred to in the memo. What I stated was the the memo shows that the U.S. and U.K. had agreed to "fix" the intelligence. The memo is dated eight months before the attack on Iraq. The Memo shows that the British government KNEW that the U.S. was "fixing" the intelligence around the policy eight months before the war. Subsequent events show not only that the U.K. went along with this "fixing" of the intelligence, but was right there behind the United States in selling this war to the world and in providing troops for the war itself.

11/21/2005 9:37:28 AM

Quote :

"No, it's still at 94%, which would lead some people to believe that the president is getting the job done since the numbers on this poll aren't getting worse."

these people you refer to

how do they not die horrible deaths at their own hands

because i know if i was that stupid

i'd just find the first bear pit i could find and just jump in screaming

11/21/2005 9:45:04 AM

Quote :

"THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON October 5, 2001 MEMORANDUM FOR THE SECRETARY OF STATE THE SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL THE DIRECTOR OF CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE THE DIRECTOR OF FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION SUBJECT: Disclosures to the Congress As we wage our campaign to respond to the terrorist attacks against the United States on September 11, and to protect us from further acts of terrorism, I intend to continue to work closely with the Congress. Consistent with longstanding executive branch practice, this Administration will continue to work to inform the leadership of the Congress about the course of, and important developments in, our critical military, intelligence, and law enforcement operations. At the same time, we have an obligation to protect military operational security, intelligence sources and methods, and sensitive law enforcement investigations. Accordingly, your departments should adhere to the following procedures when providing briefings to the Congress relating to the information we have or the actions we plan to take: (i) Only you or officers expressly designated by you may brief Members of Congress regarding classified or sensitive law enforcement information; and (ii) The only Members of Congress whom you or your expressly designated officers may brief regarding classified or sensitive law enforcement information are the Speaker of the House, the House Minority Leader, the Senate Majority and Minority Leaders, and the Chairs and Ranking Members of the Intelligence Committees in the House and Senate. This approach will best serve our shared goals of protecting American lives, maintaining the proper level of confidentiality for the success of our military, intelligence, and law enforcement operations, and keeping the leadership of the Congress appropriately informed about important developments. This morning, I informed the House and Senate leadership of this policy which shall remain in effect until you receive further notice from me. [signed:] George W. Bush"

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2001/10/gwb100501.html

So Bush is lying when he said Congress had access to the same intelligence as he did.

11/21/2005 11:47:13 AM

More evidence of manipulation in reagard to pre-war "intelligence"...

The U.S. Gov. inflated and mischaracterized the "information" from Iraqi informant "Curveball" (who was not reliable to begin with), and then punished in-house critics who provided proof that Curveball was providing false information.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-curveball20nov20%2C0%2C2053900%2Cfull.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Quote :

"How U.S. Fell Under the Spell of 'Curveball' The Iraqi informant's German handlers say they had told U.S. officials that his information was 'not proven,' and were shocked when President Bush and Colin L. Powell used it in key prewar speeches. November 20, 2005 By Bob Drogin and John Goetz, Special to The Times BERLIN — The German intelligence officials responsible for one of the most important informants on Saddam Hussein's suspected weapons of mass destruction say that the Bush administration and the CIA repeatedly exaggerated his claims during the run-up to the war in Iraq. Five senior officials from Germany's Federal Intelligence Service, or BND, said in interviews with The Times that they warned U.S. intelligence authorities that the source, an Iraqi defector code-named Curveball, never claimed to produce germ weapons and never saw anyone else do so. According to the Germans, President Bush mischaracterized Curveball's information when he warned before the war that Iraq had at least seven mobile factories brewing biological poisons. Then-Secretary of State Colin L. Powell also misstated Curveball's accounts in his prewar presentation to the United Nations on Feb. 5, 2003, the Germans said. Curveball's German handlers for the last six years said his information was often vague, mostly secondhand and impossible to confirm. "This was not substantial evidence," said a senior German intelligence official. "We made clear we could not verify the things he said." The German authorities, speaking about the case for the first time, also said that their informant suffered from emotional and mental problems. "He is not a stable, psychologically stable guy," said a BND official who supervised the case. "He is not a completely normal person," agreed a BND analyst. Curveball was the chief source of inaccurate prewar U.S. accusations that Baghdad had biological weapons, a commission appointed by Bush reported this year. The commission did not interview Curveball, who still insists his story was true, or the German officials who handled his case. The German account emerges as the White House is lashing out at domestic critics, particularly Senate Democrats, over allegations the administration manipulated intelligence to go to war. Last week, Vice President Dick Cheney called such claims reprehensible and pernicious. In Congress, the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence is resuming its long-stalled investigation of the administration's use of prewar intelligence. Committee members said last week that the Curveball case would be a key part of their review. House Democrats are calling for a similar inquiry. An investigation by The Times based on interviews since May with about 30 current and former intelligence officials in the U.S., Germany, England, Iraq and the United Nations, as well as other experts, shows that U.S. bungling in the Curveball case was worse than official reports have disclosed. The White House, for example, ignored evidence gathered by United Nations weapons inspectors shortly before the war that disproved Curveball's account. Bush and his aides issued increasingly dire warnings about Iraq's biological weapons before the war even though intelligence from Curveball had not changed in two years. At the Central Intelligence Agency, officials embraced Curveball's account even though they could not confirm it or interview him until a year after the invasion. They ignored multiple warnings about his reliability before the war, punished in-house critics who provided proof that he had lied and refused to admit error until May 2004, 14 months after the invasion. "

[Edited on November 21, 2005 at 4:04 PM. Reason : `]

11/21/2005 4:04:09 PM

http://www.suntimes.com/output/greeley/cst-edt-greel25.html

Quote :

"Is Bush lying about his lies? November 25, 2005 BY ANDREW GREELEY Not only did the Bush administration deceive the American people about the reasons for invading Iraq, it is now deceiving them about the deceptions. In a burst of political tantrums, the president and the vice president have shouted that it was "irresponsible" to assert that there had been deception and it was unfair to the troops fighting in Iraq. Is the administration lying about its lies? That many of the arguments in favor of the war were false is beyond question. Nor can there be any serious doubt that the new argument that it is irresponsible to question the old arguments is also false. But if a lie is a conscious effort to deceive, then the charge that the president and the men around him deliberately lied and are now lying again, then that issue must be left to heaven. It is enough to say they spread falsehoods three years because they had made up their minds that there had to be a war and are now spreading falsehoods about the original falsehoods. The president is not a man who likes to admit he was wrong. Therefore, one must cover up the mistakes. [...] Now we realize that even before Sept. 11, the powerful people in the administration (Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Wolfowitz) wanted a war with Iraq. The day of the attack some of them tried to find evidence that Iraq had attacked us. Now there was certainly going to be a war, and the challenge was to present a case to the American people to win their support for the war. The search for evidence was essentially a search to make the case, not a search for the truth, much as one prepares a political campaign or support for legislation or drafts a legal brief. One looked for evidence that would justify the war as preventing Rice's mushroom clouds. One took whatever one could find. Even Colin Powell says his sad attempt to be the Adlai Stevenson of his day was the worst experience of his life. The U.N. inspectors found no evidence of weapons of mass destruction. But that conclusion was dismissed, in effect, as a typical example of U.N. "waffling." No one in the administration, as far as I know, has ever said that the inspectors were right. It would seem such a suggestion is "irresponsible.""

Article is right on for the most part. It makes the case that the Bush Administration deliberately lied and misled the country into war, but stops short of explicitly making the charge. But, we DO know that the Bush Administration deliberately lied and misled the country. That is beyond question. The Downing Street Memo, the revelations of the use (and exaggeration) of information from bogus Iraqi informant "Curveball", the forged Niger documents, and all the other facts conclusively show they intentionally misled.

11/26/2005 1:12:22 AM

I used to be pretty hardcore right wing, but the Bush administration has turned me away from the right and opened my eyes and on one hand I thank him for that; however he has turned the world into a dangerous place by imposing his beliefs and his view of the way things should be done on others and by LYING and deceiving the American people, yet some of these conservatives still worship him... unbelievable how dense some people are.

11/26/2005 12:28:46 PM