Vinve can't return punts b/c he is half the athlete reggie is


^and notre dame is the 6th best team in the nation...texas almost lost to Oklahoma state. who has one of the worst rated pass defenses in the nation.

[Edited on December 6, 2005 at 7:09 PM. Reason : .]

12/6/2005 7:08:06 PM

Reggie Bush may be the best college athlete, pure athlete, running back. Not just this year but ever! If anyone deserves it besides him its his homeboy Matt, simply because of how he handles all of the preasure and the offense would never get off the ground without ole matty. But my vote is for Bush. Vince and Brady have thier war for the trophy next year!

12/6/2005 7:10:45 PM

i know you hate texas because of mack brown, but dont sound like a retard

If running was the only thing that made you athletic, kenya would be known for the world's best athletes.

texas beat oklahoma state 47-28, beat OSU at OSU and demolished Texas Tech, whom i recall you saying was actually gonna win that game. Dont be a troll

[Edited on December 6, 2005 at 7:11 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on December 6, 2005 at 7:12 PM. Reason : .]

12/6/2005 7:10:47 PM

Quote :

"Reggie Bush gets more all purpose yards then Young week end and week out."

Reggie Bush also has three legitimate ways to accumulate his yards - two of them (rushing and punt-returning) take away from Leinart's stat-padding

Vince Young only has two options- unless you wanna line him up wide and have... whoever their backup QB is throw the ball to him

Quote :

"And he has more weapons on his team."

Sounds like all the reason more to split the vote 5 ways - Leinart, Bush, White, Jarrett, the entire USC defense
The only other Texas players I know are Selvyn Young and Dave Thomas (hard to not know the Wendy's guy ); until a few weeks ago I was in Big 12 Country

12/6/2005 7:17:28 PM

^Don't forget Linas Sweed yo

12/6/2005 7:21:25 PM

One of the biggest things holding Young back, is the fact that like he said, he's out of the game by the 4th quarter almost every week when they're up by 50+. Where as a lot of USC's games this year they've had to leave all of their stars in the whole game to win.

12/6/2005 7:21:44 PM

^^
The only other Texas players I know

12/6/2005 7:24:02 PM

I hate when people compare a Rb's stats to a Qb's stats. So pointless. All purpose my ass. Absolutely no validity.

Quote :

"Vinve can't return punts b/c he is half the athlete reggie is"

Trolls. Gotta love em'

Quote :

"texas almost lost to Oklahoma state. who has one of the worst rated pass defenses in the nation. "

That Young highlight you see over and over again on the sports center Heisman promo is from that game. They totally killed those guys. I want you off my thread right now. Not now but right now.

[Edited on December 6, 2005 at 7:31 PM. Reason : .]

12/6/2005 7:28:07 PM

Dan Patrick gave it to Reggie tonight on SC

12/6/2005 7:39:06 PM

so did everyone else who has a football brain and doesnt live in the state of Texas

12/6/2005 7:44:14 PM

Quote :

"Young has yet to run all over highly ranked defenses Bush on the other hand has by himself TORN APART highly ranked ones"

a Football for a Brain maybe

[Edited on December 6, 2005 at 8:20 PM. Reason : .]

12/6/2005 7:57:52 PM

the Texans will probably take Reggie Bush first in the draft and then trade him for either Vince Young or that Offensive Tackle from Virginia. I would be afraid of having Reggie Bush behind something other than a stellar O-line in the NFL, because if he doesn't pan out in the absence of blockers you'll be spending a fortune on a mediocre NFL running back.

12/6/2005 8:14:42 PM

D'BRICKASHAW FERGUSON

YOU GOTTA SAY THE NAME MAN

Quote :

"Where as a lot of USC's games this year they've had to leave all of their stars in the whole game to win."

yea, like they did against UCLA they really needed to pull that one out

12/6/2005 8:25:34 PM

^^with the exception of two games...i recall usc being a 2nd half team. So what does that imply?

12/6/2005 8:35:48 PM

Quote :

"I hate when people compare a Rb's stats to a Qb's stats. So pointless. All purpose my ass. Absolutely no validity."

How often do RBs actually have more all-purpose yards the QBs?

On the season:
Bush has 2073 APY (not counting returns, I don't believe)
Leinart has 3484
Young has 3619
Quinn has 3755

------------------------------------------------------
Anyway...

Comparing just these three QBs are far as stats are concerned:
Young is #1 in QB rating
Quinn is #1 in passing
Quinn is #1 in TDs
Quinn and Leinart are tied for fewest INTs
Leinart is #1 in Completion Percentage (By 0.1 over Quinn; 1.1 over Young)
Young is #1 in Yards Per Attempt
Young is #1 rushing yards

Keep in mind that USC and Texas have played one more game than ND (for whatever that is worth).

ND is last amongst USC, Texas, and itself when it comes to RYPG; First when it comes to passing yards (USC is a close second; Texas a far third). Young ran for ~26% of Texas' rushing yards all season. Texas has rushed for 1582 yards more than ND.

With that said, Young has accounted for roughly 58% of Texas' total offense. Quinn has accounted for 68.6% of ND's total offense.

So basically, If you're going to be sucking off a quarterback, you might want to point those lips more towards Quinn, because he's A) statistically better and B) statistically more important to his team.

Young needs the "look at me, I'm a leader" vote, because otherwise all he's got is scrambling ability and an undefeated team.

As a side note, the statement:

Quote :

"He just evades sacks. He's damn near sack proof. He would prevail against all the blitzing schemes in the NFL, because one guy can't tackle him."

Isn't exactly true, since Young has 13 sacks on the season, Leinart has 14, and Quinn has 15.

Quote :

"^^with the exception of two games...i recall usc being a 2nd half team. So what does that imply?"

That they're good enough to show up 30 minutes late and win games.

[Edited on December 6, 2005 at 8:53 PM. Reason : .]

12/6/2005 8:51:00 PM

Quote :

"Isn't exactly true, since Young has 13 sacks on the season, Leinart has 14, and Quinn has 15"

Just goes back to who they played again. Leinhart got sacked against some of the nations worst defenses.

Quote :

"That they're good enough to show up 30 minutes late and win games."

Why do that, and risk everything to a garbage team. Thats counterintuitive. Nothing is good about having to come from behind to win a game. Thats terrible, but you dickriders find a way to make it worth bragging. All this with TWO HEISMAN CANDIDATES ON ONE TEAM. REMEMBER!! AND THE FACT THAT THESE TEAMS ARE NOBODYS what the fuck is your boggle???

Quote :

"ND is last amongst USC, Texas, and itself when it comes to RYPG; First when it comes to passing yards (USC is a close second; Texas a far third). Young ran for ~26% of Texas' rushing yards all season. Texas has rushed for 1582 yards more than ND."

You know the Heisman is subliminally about the teams record also. All this crap is useless. everyone knows that Quinn and Leinhart are out of it. It is between Young and Bush.

Quote :

"With that said, Young has accounted for roughly 58% of Texas' total offense. Quinn has accounted for 68.6% of ND's total offense."

Two totally different offenses. ND is a "passing team" whereas Tex is a balanced team. You have no point whatsoever. To me Quin is a program guy whos stats are heavily padded. Plus they lost. He didnt play well against USC. Point blank (the reason why he is out of it) statistically he might have did well, but on a # of plays he looked like shit.

[Edited on December 6, 2005 at 9:20 PM. Reason : .]

12/6/2005 9:16:08 PM

reggie bush doesn't care about black people

12/6/2005 9:26:22 PM

theone is a Texas homer. Bush will win no matter how much it is argued on here.

Quote :

"One of the biggest things holding Young back, is the fact that like he said, he's out of the game by the 4th quarter almost every week when they're up by 50+"

I don't see how you could argue Texas schedule was harder. If Texas was blowing these teams out so much, how good could they have been?

12/6/2005 10:05:24 PM

Quote :

"Nothing is good about having to come from behind to win a game. Thats terrible, but you dickriders find a way to make it worth bragging. "

Come the end of a game and down by 7, I'd rather have guys who were good at playing catchup than guys who were good at blowing people out in the first quarter.

Quote :

"You know the Heisman is subliminally about the teams record also. All this crap is useless. everyone knows that Quinn and Leinhart are out of it. It is between Young and Bush."

Bush and Leinart play for the same team. That means both of them play on undefeated teams!

Quote :

"To me Quin is a program guy whos stats are heavily padded. "

And this is the Heisman trophy. I don't see your point?

Quote :

"Point blank (the reason why he is out of it) statistically he might have did well, but on a # of plays he looked like shit."

Whoa whoa whoa. You have to look good on every play?

Fuck, we better keep those Vince Young INT numbers under wraps!

12/6/2005 11:28:13 PM

without reading anything since the first post...

my voting would go as follows

bush
leinart
young
quinn

young over quinn merely based on texas being undefeated, quinn is a better nfl prospect and the two will battle it out for the heisman next year


quinn (the program guy) was throwing for all sorts of yardage before the program even showed up...he was a huge time high school qb, he'll be a big time nfl quarterback, better than leinart, better than young

[Edited on December 6, 2005 at 11:52 PM. Reason : d]

[Edited on December 6, 2005 at 11:52 PM. Reason : d]

12/6/2005 11:47:58 PM

good list, i totally agree

12/6/2005 11:49:38 PM

^^Listen, my point is Young shunned Colorado's highly ranked run defense twice. Vince young single handedly shunned Ohio State's defense period. What more does this man have to do. And you want to tell me that Quinn is better?? you don't know football, i don't even know why I fancy your posts. Atleast the other opposing views are better than yours. Leinhart, Quinn are overrated.

This is merely a Bush and Young issue. Hell, Leinhart shouldnt have won it last year!!! Peterson should have won it, or Bush. But since the Heisman system is sooo backward>They award Leinhart over Bush, Fucked Peterson b/c he was a freshman (like a freshman can't be the best in the country)

So this is their make up year. They feel as if they owe Bush from last year, thats why he will win the award this year. Bush will win no doubt. But, to me and a bunch of others Vince is the( and should be) the winner. But you're not gonna put him under Leinhart or Quinn. What the fuck is wrong with your brain dude?

Young
Bush
Leinhart
Quinn.

But since Bush owns SC
Bush
Young
Leinhart
Quinn

[Edited on December 6, 2005 at 11:59 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 12:01 AM. Reason : .]

12/6/2005 11:56:42 PM

Please tell me we weren't all like this when Rivers was an outside shot to win the Heisman.

12/7/2005 12:04:56 AM

everybody ignores the fact that usc plays in the land of no defense. the only reason the teams usc have played are good is because they have great offense. if ucla oregon arizona state and notre dame had mediocre offenses they would all have losing records. its so easy to be amazed by bush running all over the #11 team in the nation and think its somehting great when really its nothing more than bush running all over the #114 team in the nation (uclas run d). the offenses you play have absolutly nothing to do with heisman numbers (if anything it helps pad them because you get more possessions.

usc played against great offenses while texas played against great defenses.

colorado (twice) ohio state oklahoma are teams polar opposite of the 3 teams i mentioned on uscs schedule. they are all defensthese teams win games by stopping people and have lose because they cant get the ball in the endzone. an oposing teams inability to get the ball in the endzone has nothing to do with heisman stats.

vince young deserves the heisman because his comparable numbers have come against a better mean of defenses (including amazing perfomances vs #1 run d colorado and an amazing performance against #1 linebackers ohio state

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 12:10 AM. Reason : oposing]

12/7/2005 12:07:29 AM

actually, Peterson was a good move that they didnt put him as it last year and i know hes been injured, but what has he really done this year that can compete with Bush or Leinhart...at least Leinhart improved his numbers over last year

he wont beat USC though^
and i put my posting rights in sports talk on that statement

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 12:09 AM. Reason : .]

12/7/2005 12:08:49 AM

The Texas-tOSU game was a lot closer than that. Hamby catches that open TD pass and Young isn't in the running for Heisman based on the team factor that everyone considers.

12/7/2005 12:13:43 AM

theone,
You're right it is stupid to compare a Qbs stats to a RB's. I wasn't doing it, just pointing out that Vince Young was stating that he thought his stats would be higher if he were in the whole game. So why is he worried if the two positions' stats are irrelevant? I agree about that QB , I believe he was from Texas Tech though. Young also stated that "Coach Brown doesn't like to blow teams out." Could have fooled me in the CU game. Reggie Bush and Young want the heisman trophy equally as badly as the other, as they should. Thing is, Young is defending himself and getting on his platform. I've never seen a player verbally express wanting it so badly when there in the Rose Bowl going to be playing for the MNC, if you ask me, it's become a distraction to him. Gameday Coach, Pete Carrol vs. Ol Mack???? Ask any Tarhole, Mack is a great recruiter, and you know, he may win this game, but it will be because of Texas's talent, not because of Ol Mack's coaching. See last year Rose Bowl, Young shreads Mich's D. Give Pete carrol a month to prepare, Young will have a soid but not earthshattering game, solidifying that the voters made the right choice with Bush. Oh, and Bush goes for a measily 150 (how horrible) at RB against that nasty Texas D.

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 12:17 AM. Reason : sp]

12/7/2005 12:15:02 AM

Why wasn't that a good move?? huh?? tell me you big dummy??? Peterson out-performed everyone last year hands down!! Just b/c he has done nothing this year (compared to last year) does not justify why he shouldnt have got it last year. I never mentioned his name this year, i brought him up to make a point.

People win the Heisman and perform horrible the next year all the time. What are you saying? They should only give the Heisman to people who improve?? thats nonsense.

Quote :

"Thing is, Young is defending himself and getting on his platform"

I wonder why??? he only has the whole media against him. I started this thread b/c ive never seen this before in all my years of Heisman coverage. Meaning, ive never seen the media intervene so heavily within, what was supposed to be, a close race. They don't even need to have the ceremony now!! whats the point. To me, i was excited b/c it is very close. I like Bush and Young. They are the best two no doubt. After the Fresno game, the media just took over and rallied, and im like "damn" dude had an awesome game, but who in the hell is Fresno. The nation has never seen this team play before this game

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 12:22 AM. Reason : .]

12/7/2005 12:16:24 AM

Quote :

"colorado (twice) ohio state oklahoma are teams polar opposite of the 3 teams i mentioned on uscs schedule."

FLASHBACK TIME

LAST YEAR WHO DID USC PLAY IN THE NATIONAL TITLE GAME

WAIT FOR IT

WAIT FOR IT

OKLAHOMA

HOW'D THAT GAME TURN OUT?

55-19

Bush's stat line:

6 carries; 75 yards

BUT THEY'VE NEVER PLAYED AGAINST A GOOD DEFENSE, RIGHT?

12/7/2005 12:20:51 AM

i think betting against bush, or USC in general is a silly move.

12/7/2005 12:22:28 AM

okay you are officially retarded. That was NEWS FLASH......LAST YEAR

ummmmmm Stein sir, im sorry. But im gonna have to ask you to gather your belongings and exit the room please. Your pointless credibility and outlandish statements have expired.
Thank you

Management

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 12:29 AM. Reason : .]

12/7/2005 12:23:30 AM

Quote :

"colorado (twice) ohio state oklahoma are teams polar opposite of the 3 teams i mentioned on uscs schedule. they are all defensthese teams win games by stopping people and have lose because they cant get the ball in the endzone"

except, the big 12 has been criticized all year for their horrible defense. I mean Colorado played great D against Texas when they lost by 67...impressive performance...but I mean thats just one game right?

I would be willing to bet that if texas was in the ACC they wouldnt average more than 30 points per game. I was so frustrated watching the Texas vs texas A&M by their horrible horrible tackling ability. I mean if A&M had half the defensive technique of Miami, FSU, or even NC State for gods sake they would have won that game. Its pathetic to watch and I think texas is going to get exposed by USC's defense...even though the're not that great...they're better than most teams texas has faced.


And the OSU game...what did they score, 25? Its the only real D they've played all year, and they were held to HALF of their average.

12/7/2005 12:28:39 AM

There defense is worse this year, but that doesn't in any way challenge the fact that the offensive unit from this year is just as good, if not better than last year's, and they put up huge numbers against a very good defense last year.

Kind of like how Vince Young didn't get any worse in the offseason, neither did USC's offense.

12/7/2005 12:30:22 AM

^what part did you miss about colorado being ranked high nationally(run d). Read the thread bofore you add your garbage

its better to be criticized on having a horrible D, than the Pac 10 where they don't have D. Name a D this year USC has played that is credible?????? Texas has played 3 or 4. When i ask this question all u can say is ummmm durrrrr Fresno State...Ucla get the hell outta here

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 12:38 AM. Reason : obvious]

12/7/2005 12:31:57 AM

There defense is worse this year, but that doesn't in any way challenge the fact that the offensive unit from this year is just as good, if not better than last year's, and they put up huge numbers against a very good defense last year.

Kind of like how Vince Young didn't get any worse in the offseason, neither did USC's offense.

Quote :

"ummmmmm Stein sir, im sorry. But im gonna have to ask you to gather your belongings and exit the room please. Your pointless credibility and outlandish statements have expired. Thank you Management"

Cute.

You should watch your word choice though

First it was "fancy"

Which meant you like my posts, but are now telling me to leave?

Now it's "pointless credibility"

Which would imply that you don't care about the credibility of what I have to say has no point in your eyes.

Quote :

"what part did you miss about colorado being ranked high nationally(run d). Read the thread bofore you add your garbage"

Oklahoma was #5 nationally last year in rushing defense allowing 86 rushing yards per game.

Bush had 75 in 6 carries; White had over 110

12/7/2005 12:38:46 AM

I never said Texas' schedule was harder, but it wasn't a cake walk by any means. Both teams had very respectable schedules and both had big wins.

But to support my argument, USC had closer games and a lot of come from behind victories on the year. USC averages winning by 29 points a game, including 3 by 10 or less. Texas averages winning by 36 with 1 game by less than 10.

Texas gets up big and takes Young out, that's all I was saying. My vote personally would go for Bush because like everyone has said, he does it ALL. But I do think if Texas and Vince really wanted him to win the Heisman he could have probably had quite a few more TD's and yards in some of those games. Quite a few games this season he went out in the 3rd quarter, had they left him in they'd have some 100+ point games.

12/7/2005 12:40:45 AM

you continue to say ohio state is the only great defense texas has played all year when usc has played none.

and we continue to reference games from other seasons

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 12:45 AM. Reason : FOCUS ON THIS SEASON]

12/7/2005 12:43:35 AM

the pac-10 defenses are consistently better than the big 12 defenses. They all suck...I know. But watching both, big 12 is terrible, and the pac 10 is bad.


It doesnt matter though. Reggie Bush's performance has been much more impressive. He doesnt get the ball in his hands on every play, but he still manages to take over games.

12/7/2005 12:50:22 AM

notice the mood swing:
1)fancy- b/c i thought u had credible sports knowledge in the begining. Then i abruptly realized(based on your posts) that you are no more than the equivalent of our deceased Neanderthal relatives.

2)i told you to leave-ummmm

3)pointless credibility- constantly contradicting yourself. Making no sense. Where the hell is your sports knowledge?? or sports logic for that matter??

Are the Pac 10 d's better this year??? the answer to that would be no. Name a team with a badass D that usc has beat this year please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! stop going back to last year.

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 12:54 AM. Reason : .]

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 12:56 AM. Reason : .]

12/7/2005 12:52:13 AM

Quote :

"and we continue to reference games from other seasons "

My point is, would you argue that USC's offense is better last year or this year?

And even if you say "oh, they're the same"

They still put up 55 points on the #9 overall defense last year.

12/7/2005 12:54:43 AM

since most offenses suck in the big 12 and thats what big 12 teams play... wouldn't that lead to "over-ranked" defenses simply because they played shit on the other end?

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 12:58 AM. Reason : all->most, bleh]

12/7/2005 12:58:24 AM

Sssssh

There's no place for that kind of logic in this thread!

This is a Vince Young circlejerk thread and we won't have any reality getting into here!

12/7/2005 1:01:53 AM

you guys do remember that the heisman doesn't go to the best player in college football, right? just the best guy on one of the best teams.

12/7/2005 1:04:10 AM

if the Heisman was done right

12/7/2005 1:06:48 AM

BRIAN CLARK FOR HEISMAN WOOOOHOOOO hahaha

12/7/2005 1:09:12 AM

The Media Heisman and the Heisman are one in the same

12/7/2005 1:09:20 AM

i actually think the best player in college at this point is Bush

and white aint half bad either

12/7/2005 1:09:44 AM

absolutely not BC

12/7/2005 1:22:11 AM

socrates is right

12/7/2005 1:31:49 AM

heisman stuff should be after bowls...

12/7/2005 1:36:00 AM