Fuck a tax. You white motherfuckers that want to go slumming and pretend you're "urban" need to take the motherfucking bus.

6/14/2010 10:04:11 PM

i wonder if there's a stuffwhitepeoplelike about mass transit.

6/14/2010 10:07:34 PM

^^ lol at "you white motherfuckers". shutup smc.

6/14/2010 10:18:15 PM

My gf and I rode the MARTA...got us around nice and quickly for cheap....and it wasnt dominated by minorities. We would both love to have that option here...especially if we can get from Crabtree Valley to downtown without driving.

6/14/2010 10:24:45 PM

this rail system will just make it easier for people in southeast raleigh to commit crime all over raleigh

6/14/2010 10:26:28 PM

Quote :

"My gf and I rode the MARTA...got us around nice and quickly for cheap....and it wasnt dominated by minorities."

Of course it isn't. Most large cities have undergone so much gentrification in the past decade that the areas that the existing mass transit are servicing are middle or upper class. Of course this isn't the case everywhere, but the notion that mass transit is for the lower class is completely outdated and silly.

I could not imagine having to have to drive in to San Francisco every morning from the East Bay. What a headache. I took BART every day for the year I worked in the actual Financial District.

6/14/2010 10:33:26 PM

^ except LA. the well off would never be caught dead on public transit out there.

granted there is nothing good in that city.

6/14/2010 10:38:00 PM

The San Deigo Trolley kicks ass as well.

6/14/2010 10:39:10 PM

Quote :

"Most large cities have undergone so much gentrification in the past decade that the areas that the existing mass transit are servicing are middle or upper class."

= Cost of living increase

6/14/2010 10:45:48 PM

^^^ ha... well the LA subway system is about the most horribly designed piece of public transportation in the world. It doesn't even really service the high density parts of the region. Plus, LA sucks.

6/14/2010 10:49:14 PM

I live in Atlanta, I occasionally use MARTA train to get to events in town or take it down to the airport. But unless you are willing to use the bus and have LOTS of time on your hands or live right one on the line, riding the train still involves driving your car to the station, paying for parking, etc.

In the winter the train doubles as a homeless shelter, so...yeah.

plz to embed:
Bitch you ride the MARTA BUS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQTuYo6HmiQ

6/14/2010 10:51:35 PM

nice to see a good dose of racism in this thread...on all fronts

[Edited on June 14, 2010 at 11:07 PM. Reason : o and la=greatest city in the world it shits on nyc.]

6/14/2010 11:02:30 PM

^^ Or you could ride your bicycle.

I like how the BART has special space for bicycles

6/14/2010 11:03:07 PM

^^^ we tried driving on the interstates around ATL and got fed up with the traffic, construction, and overall craziness. My gf would not shut up about being careful and watching out for this car and that car and blah blah blah. At least the MARTA shut her up

Quote :

"the notion that mass transit is for the lower class is completely outdated and silly. "

I totally agree. Regardless I have no problem using it if it were.

[Edited on June 14, 2010 at 11:05 PM. Reason : a]

6/14/2010 11:04:06 PM

^^^I haven't seen you on the CAT. What line you ride?

6/14/2010 11:05:43 PM

this thread gave me false hopes that joenumbers had returned

6/14/2010 11:07:54 PM

Quote :

"^^ Or you could ride your bicycle."

If only it were that easy. Its not worth arguing over if you're not familiar with the ATL metro area. Those that are understand the shortcomings of the system.

Still, its better than nothing.

[Edited on June 14, 2010 at 11:33 PM. Reason : .]

6/14/2010 11:33:06 PM

Fuck a tax, take the bus. It's not that bad. 30 minutes of your time is not worth the massive tax dollars needed for a mostly useless light rail line.

[Edited on June 15, 2010 at 1:34 AM. Reason : too much anger]

6/15/2010 1:33:48 AM

Quote :

"Maintenance! Sorry, maintenance work is being performed. Please try again later. "

6/15/2010 7:41:01 AM

If you don't want to drive, take the bus. It is here right now and the rest of us that either drive or already take the bus won't need to pay 0.5% of everything we spend just so you get to ride mass transit without the stigma of it being a bus.

Especially since it will cost far more than this tax will raise. Building and operating that one light rail line will bankrupt the regional transportation departments, causing them to slash bus service, reducing mass transit ridership more than the rail increases it, putting more drivers on the road and increasing congestion outside the rail corridor. The problem just gets worse as legislatures respond to the bottomless pit that is light rail by diverting highway funds, causing a reduction in road construction. Then it is just a matter of time until the city outgrows the existing road network and it gradually grinds to a halt (all-day rush hours). It is no accident that driving or taking the bus is a nightmare in cities with a light-rail network: resources are not unlimited, and light-rail is an immensely inefficient use of resources. For a fraction of the cost, we can build a dedicated bus lane along this route and run a fleet of buses for identical service.

Save the money, use it to make the bus system better with more routes, more non-stop routes, bypass traffic with dedicated bus lanes, free rides during rush-hour, and maybe install Wifi. Seattle takes their bus system underground in congested areas, gaining all the dedicated right-of-way benefits of rail without the costs, as once the vehicle leaves the dedicated right-of-way, instead of having to get off the train and onto a bus or car, a bus can just keep on going.

6/15/2010 9:52:37 AM

FTR there isn't a light rail system anywhere in the country that is profitable. They are money pits. But one in this area, if laid out properly, could spawn every more development and bring more people and money to the area. But increased taxes are the only way to pay for it, unfortunately (and then you'll have to pay more money to actually use it).

6/15/2010 10:15:35 AM

i concur about improving the bus system, but only if this plan is ONLY for the raleigh area...joining raleigh, RTP, chapel hill, and durham with a light rail would be beneficial

6/15/2010 10:26:01 AM

Why aren't you idiots looking that the closest comparable project, both in terms of geography and situation: Charlotte's light rail.

It isn't used primarily by low income and it has been a huge success. Of course, there is more demand there and it actually goes uptown, etc.

LOL at comparing it to the MARTA.

6/15/2010 11:00:40 AM

i've always thought that light rail should connect the areas where there is a large draw.

downtown -> ncsu -> fairgrounds/rbc center -> airport -> rtp -> southpoint(?) -> durham/chapel hill

use existing rail from downtown, through ncsu. run tracks down the median of wade/40 to the rbc center, airport, rtp, and on.

keep bus service for transit around raleigh, to/from rail stations. light rail city-wide would be extremely expensive and definitely not worth it for the population density of raleigh.


[Edited on June 15, 2010 at 11:13 AM. Reason : ...]

6/15/2010 11:10:45 AM

^^ Huge success? In what sense? yes, people are using it. But it was insanely expensive and the bonds for it are still outstanding against the taxpayers. Like I said, a dedicated bus line would have been cheaper and accomplished exactly the same thing.

^ We have highways for intercity travel. I know people that take the bus to and from work between duram and raleigh.

[Edited on June 15, 2010 at 11:15 AM. Reason : ^]

6/15/2010 11:13:54 AM

The highways won't be able to handled increased demand over the years. The current expansion that is widening I-40 is great, but I have to wonder what they're gonna do if 10 years from now they need to widen the road again. B/c while they're widening the road inward now, there really isn't any room to widen the road outward.

[Edited on June 15, 2010 at 11:30 AM. Reason : k]

6/15/2010 11:30:13 AM

taking up the space by building a light rail line will not eliminate the need to widen the highway. What it will do is guarantee that the space and money needed to do so will not be available.

In so far as mass transit can alleviate some congestion and the need for an expanded road network, buses can do that and more, since a buses can go anywhere the road network goes.

6/15/2010 11:49:40 AM

there was a big thread about this not that long ago, where i waxed poetic about the completion of 540/640 the conversion of hwy 70 to a full limited access highway, double decking part of I-40, the durham freeway extension to 540/640, and a further extension south from west of CH on I-40 to the durham freeway extension to 540/640 as a completed through traffic bypass.

light rail feeders to the highspeed rail station at RDU from DC (goes to Charlotte (slight possibility of it also stopping somewhere in the Triad area, greensboro?)) down to Atlanta with a side possibility of getting it hooked into FL's plan for HSR.

but that's all several billion dollars and several decades away...

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=551588&page=1#12398052

6/15/2010 12:09:03 PM

3 arguments

1) poor public policy to spend money in hopes of making that money back (political suicide, really)
2) most of the rtp area is the opposite of dense (sprawling suburbs don't use light rail)
3) what's wrong with the current bus system (if it ain't broke? if it is broke, why aren't we fixing THAT?)

6/15/2010 12:10:22 PM

Sorry, Marge, the mob has spoken.

6/15/2010 12:44:44 PM

What's wrong with the current bus system is the citizens who won't ride the bus simply because it's the bus.

Also more routes are probably needed. Not sure about Raleigh, but where I live in Durham, I can walk ~3/4 mile to a TTA stop and ride it to work. This is reasonable and I'm going to start riding more often. My girlfriend, on the other hand, was looking into the DATA routes to see if she could take the bus to work. Bascially, no, not reasonably--it would have involved almost 2 miles of walking and about 1.5 hours of riding on 3 different buses to make a trip of 11 miles total, from one very busy area (Southpoint) to another very busy area (MLK & Shannon near 15-501). That's not acceptable, and that's the type of thing that a light rail line would divert needed funds from as city governments have to kick in funding.

6/15/2010 3:47:19 PM

Unfortunately the bus system outside of downtown is ridiculous. I used to live right across the street from a TTA stop. Literally the sign for the bus stop was directly across from my mailbox. But that stupid ass bus only came by maybe twice in the morning and twice in the evening, and went nowhere of any use. I had wanted to start using it for my commute to RTP but there was just no way I could ride that bus and get to work on time.

I agree the bus system needs to be changed.

6/15/2010 8:33:30 PM

Sure you could. You'd have to wake up earlier.

6/15/2010 8:35:48 PM

No, because I had to be at work at 6:30am and the first bus of the day came by at 6:45am

6/15/2010 8:36:55 PM

Pure laziness on your part. You'd simply have to go in to work the night before like the Japanese do. They have mag-lev trains, those people know how to commute.

6/15/2010 8:38:12 PM

Quote :

"What's wrong with the current bus system is the citizens who won't ride the bus simply because it's the bus."

Well that's half true. The other bit is how retarded the system around here is. I'd love to ride the bus, but my problem is that I could totally do it in the morning, but there's no return trips for the time I'd like to return to Raleigh from Durham.

6/15/2010 10:14:01 PM

I'd love to know whose idea it was to establish the bus schedules the way they are now.

I mean, what was their "target" group? How did they decide "These bus times look good. they fit the average X rider of the Raleigh area" ?

6/16/2010 12:57:09 AM

Quote :

"How did they decide "These bus times look good. they fit the average X rider of the Raleigh area" ?"

From the looks of how it currently is, probably a bunch of "smart" board room head honchos that never actually depended on the bus to get themselves anywhere.

I would love to take the bus, but as I said, if it only works one way for me it's pointless.

They need more express buses at increased intervals traveling only directly between major parts of the city that don't stop every 15 feet for everyone. These buses should also "realistically" run later into the evening than they do now.

The latest express bus from Durham Station on Route 650 is at 6:27...
http://triangletransit.org/uploads/bus_pdfs/Express_1-4-10.pdf

Horrible. Those express buses are packed tight as hell too. Double up the buses and run them through 8pm.

[Edited on June 16, 2010 at 2:59 AM. Reason : -]

6/16/2010 2:44:21 AM

bus stops running ridiculously early

it's like they think everyone gets off at 5

6/16/2010 8:30:30 AM

Sure, I'd ride the bus to work. But my commute by car is 17 minutes, door to desk.

Here's my driving scenario, out the door, in the car, at the office, park the car. At my desk.
travel: 6.2 miles
time: 17 minutes

If I ride the bus.
10 minute walk to the bus stop. catch 6:15 AM 15C bus.
ride 15C bus to wake med.
wait at wakemed
transfer to 15 bus.
transfer at moore square station to 7 bus
disembark bus, 6 minute walk to desk
arrive at work.

travel: 7.5 miles
time: 1.5 hours!

If I want to be at work at 7:30 AM. I have to catch first bus that leaves at 6AM.

In retrospect, I can have a 34 minutes of commute time daily via car, vs. 180+ minutes of commute time daily via bus.

If I could get to work in less than 30 minutes via transit. I'd be interested. But in the current set-up. That's not feasible.

6/16/2010 8:46:15 AM

I can't see Light Rail ever working in the Triangle. Too much sprawl. Too many fat people. Driving a car is cheap (relatively) and easy thanks to down-town being mostly roads and parking.

Maybe if the population doubled without increasing the actual size of the metro.

6/16/2010 9:40:32 AM

take a look at the Sweedish subway stations...

http://www.leenks.com/gallery1213.htm

6/16/2010 9:57:14 AM

It's like they were designed by Ikea.

6/16/2010 10:00:06 AM

^ i wonder where in sweden that is...i rode the subway quite a bit when i was there and i don't recall a place like that

6/16/2010 10:16:18 AM

The cost of laying elevated and subterranean tracks would buy a shitload of electric buses.

6/16/2010 10:32:03 AM

http://www.newraleigh.com/articles/archive/qa-with-thomas-crowder-on-the-state-of-mass-transit-planning/

6/17/2010 11:35:50 PM

^^^ They are in Stockholm. Most of the ones posted are stations along the blue line headed out toward Kista / Rinkeby.

6/18/2010 12:03:09 AM

Quote :

"The cost of laying elevated and subterranean tracks would buy a shitload of electric buses."

buses clog the roads.

6/18/2010 6:26:12 AM

^ and everything costs a lot at first... to the people who say "it's way too expensive," I say "we've got to think long-term..."

sometimes it makes me wonder how the Interstate system ever even got started..

6/18/2010 6:30:39 AM

^^^ i walked most places in stockholm, but the few times i road the subway, i didn't see that

now i feel like i missed out

6/18/2010 7:42:51 AM