Quote :

"If ADHD/ADD drugs are justified for improving work/class performance, then steroids should be made legal in sports. "

[Edited on January 15, 2006 at 2:52 PM. Reason : page 2 ADHDHDHDSS'S]

1/15/2006 2:50:59 PM

^good point. but....

In our society, steroids are illegal in organized/pro sports because, well, it's just a sport. Which teams win whatever championships just aren’t serious national concerns. Also, sports are game-like in terms of rules, honor, etc., so having rules making athletes compete on a "level playing field" is understandable--for the sake of the honor of the game. However, dominance/competition in academics and intellect is a far more serious matter for national concern. Both in the public and private sector, our nation excels because we are smart--not because we average 6'5" 280lbs of muscle with 4 minute miles. That being so, psychoactive "smart drugs" are encouraged in our society! (coffee anyone?)--but the g0vt can't just make these new psychiatric drugs OTC and run PSA's encouraging viewers to try the drugs responsibly, (which it should, sort of...) because then the "war on drugs" loses most of it's backing by sending "the wrong message." (The DEA "war on drugs" has a lot to do with this mess. But that's a different issue.)

1/15/2006 3:26:12 PM

did you just say America has more qualified computer engineers because they take more ADD drugs?

1/15/2006 5:07:47 PM

Most kids on those drugs are proven dangerous to themselves.

1/15/2006 5:21:30 PM

^^No. I mean, it might....who knows?.....besides, that's not the point.

A society's per-capita amount of ADHD drug use in a vacuum means very little. (I hope that was your point...cause I would agree.) America has vast cultural differences from anywhere else in the world. Therefore, comparing different nations' per-capita ADHD drug use for the purpose of concluding something about those nations' per-capita proficiency in engineering (or any other intellectual field,) won't work. This can easily be understood in relation to the fact that most Americans are fat, lazy, short-sighted, and heavily drugged sheep that think that the ends always justify the means. Non-Americans tend not to be so unwise.

The point I was trying to make is that because America is concerned more about the education and intellectual abilities of its' citizens than how many pull-ups they can do, the g0vt agenda is to encourage the use of "smart drugs"--but they can't simply come out and say that. Doing so would contradict decades-old propaganda from the DEA in the "war on drugs". [a related issue] Why do you think caffeine is so big in America?--it increases productivity......most don't care that it's damaging to their health as well as addictive. So by pathologizing natural (albeit undesirable,) character/personality traits that reflect an inability to optimally perform (hence optimally complete globally,) people feel OK taking the drug because they’ve been suckered into believing that they have a "disease" that they’re "treating".

Thinking exercise:
Hypothetically, if individuals' physical might is more efficacious in maintaining/achieving national superpower status, then the whole roles of sports and education might be reversed. (Bizzaro-world) Academic/intellectual pursuits would only be mere "games and past-times" with ethics rules against taking "smart drugs" for competitors. Similarly, physical fitness pursuits would be the main thrust of the entire nation and a "legitimate", "socially-acceptable" reason to be taking performance enhancing drugs would have to be made--hence the medical model. IOW, the pharmaceutical companies would conspire with the FDA (not unlike today,) to pathologize any and every undesirable physical shortcoming. Under-developed biceps would be a "disease" called "vertical curling disorder" and your MD would prescribe steroids to "treat" it. Fortunately, this is not the world we live in, but none-the-less, it illustrates how the real problem isn't the existence or use of the drugs, but rather the amount of autonomy an individual has in deciding how to seek products or services to address their own health/well-being.



^What?! Are you saying that "most kids on those drugs are proven dangerous to themselves," when not taking the drugs? Or are you saying that "most kids on those drugs are proven dangerous to themselves" when they are taking the drugs?


(Either way, what's your source?)

1/15/2006 6:16:45 PM

Quote :

"If ADHD/ADD drugs are justified for improving work/class performance, then steroids should be made legal in sports."

as someone who was on adderall for a year - i completely agree

1/15/2006 8:17:41 PM

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/symptom.htm

I show most of those symptoms. Guess I have ADHD.

1/15/2006 9:05:57 PM

In your case it's clearly Social Down Syndrome.

1/16/2006 10:19:52 AM

Note: this ended up being kind of long because I wrote about what led to my taking a med for ADD, b/c of all the people criticizing it. For side effects and results, read first and last paragraphs.

I've been taking Strattera for a few months now. At first I had racing heartbeat, sweats overnight (and waking up several times), headaches, and major cottonmouth. Cottonmouth still persists pretty frequently. Oh, and more sensitivity with blackouts you get from standing up too quickly. I'd never been on a medication before this, with the exception of birth control a few years back, so my body was like "what are you doing to me?" I didn't notice a decreased sex drive like one person mentioned. If anything it's increased.

I do believe that ADD/ADHD is sometimes misdiagnosed as an excuse. In my case I didn't even think of it until my fourth semester that I either withdrew from all but one class, or withdrew completely because I had this block that was keeping me from getting motivated to go to class, and especially to study. It became most noticeable once I had classes that required you to study if you want any chance of doing well in the course. I did every assignment at the last possible moment, and I was completely messy and disorganized. Away from school my husband didn't feel like I was listening to him, and most of the time he was right. There was also no way I could listen to something like an audio book because I just couldn't concentrate on it. My thoughts follow this random pathway so when I would say something it would be completely off topic, and then I'd had to explain how I got to it.

Longer story short, I was feeling very frustrated because I knew I was smart enough to be doing very well in school, yet here I was completely not doing so. I guess it's kind of like the whole gadget holding a carrot in front of a rabbit with the stick attached to its head. You can see it but can't reach it. When my friend joked that we have ADD I decided to research it and there were even childhood symptoms that correlated with my life. I went to see a doctor who had done her school studies specifically on ADD/ADHD and in no time she was prescribing Strattera, which is supposed to be less invasive than things like Adderall.

Fortunately one place in which I can focus is at work. I may start five things at once, but I do what's required of me, and usually more. This is great because I didn't want to take medication and even though it's been helping me stay on task so far (I'm taking five classes this semester, and no signs of wanting to drop out of them or forgetting tasks yet), I don't plan to continue to take it after school. I am starting to go to the Counseling Center in the hopes that I can get some "coaching" for time management and organization skills that I can hold onto for after school as well as during. I don't believe that just going on a med is all you have to do to work on the problem. You have to be proactive and work on whatever can be done to lessen the necessity for medication.

1/16/2006 11:25:33 AM

Quote :

"....I didn't want to take medication and even though it's been helping me stay on task so far ..... I don't plan to continue to take it after school."

Quote :

"I don't believe that just going on a med is all you have to do to work on the problem. You have to be proactive and work on whatever can be done to lessen the necessity for medication."

Good attitude! I'm glad you're doing better, and it's good that you realize drugs may not be a good permanent fix. But there's something to worry about--when you discontinue the drug, you will be right back where you started unless you follow through with your plans to seek talk therapy in order to achieve better adapted thinking strategies. (time management and organization skills, etc.) Good luck!

However--although many may feel that the distinction is unimportant--it is very necessary for everyone to understand that these drugs are not medicine. They are just drugs. IOW, sure, everything could be viewed as medicine (including drugs, vitamins, water, food, herbs, laughter, etc.) in some kind of poetic non-literal sense, but it is more appropriate to refer to medicines only when they cure/treat an actual disease. ADD is not a disease. The pharmaceutical companies have conspired with the FDA, DEA, FTC, and others to pathologize a condition. Example: Is tiredness a "disease"? After all, it can be treated with caffeine, right?--So is caffeine a "medicine" used to treat the "disease" of tiredness? No. It's just a drug that affects a condition. Is sunburn a "disease"? After all, it can be prevented with SPF lotion, right?--So is SPF lotion a "medicine" used to prevent the "disease" of sunburn? No. It's just a [topical] drug that affects/prevents a condition. In either case, simple changes in ones’ behavior (better sleep; less sunlight) would also alleviate the condition. I don't expect everyone to understand why this distinction is paramount--but it is.
(http://www.google.com/search?q=metaphorical+disease+psychiatry)

Quote :

"my taking a med for ADD, b/c of all the people criticizing it."

It is very important that everyone takes the time to understand the difference between:
-- people who criticize any taking of these drugs in any context,
-- from people who criticize the context (psychiatric "medicine" for a "disease",) in which the drugs are taken but who don't criticize the drug itself or an individual's right to responsibly consume the drug should they want,
-- from people who criticize the drug itself, but not the context (psychiatry).
IOW, opposition to psychiatry/psychiatric drugs is not black-and-white. One isn't simply "for or against" psychiatry/psychiatric drugs. There are too many separate issues from which criticism can be made.

[Edited on January 16, 2006 at 12:45 PM. Reason : ]

1/16/2006 12:43:32 PM

adderal, 20mg is what I'm on. I'm suppose to take it everyday but only take it 3-4 days a week (when I have class basically). I feel like shit if I take it all the time but it does the job damn well if I just take it when I'm actually going to need an attention span

1/16/2006 2:31:56 PM

^^I was meaning ppl that criticize ADD, saying that it's not a serious disorder that can interfere with living.

Quote :

"But there's something to worry about--when you discontinue the drug, you will be right back where you started unless you follow through with your plans to seek talk therapy in order to achieve better adapted thinking strategies. (time management and organization skills, etc.) Good luck! "

Thanks. I do plan to follow through on them, and hopefully I won't even need coaching after school. It helps that my husband is clean and organized. Something else that is supposed to be a huge help is exercise. My family isn't big on meds and my sister mentioned exercise when I talked to her about the med.

So you basically believe that medicine is only medicine if it's used for physical ailments and any psychological treatment is just drugs that should be avoided. I would agree except I wouldn't have enough background information to do so. What about schizophrenics and other more serious mental ailments?

I wonder sometimes if I would be having the same effects from taking Strattera as if I was given just a placebo since it is a matter of overcoming a mental block, but I tried so hard prior to that I was definitely open to trying Strattera.

1/16/2006 3:10:21 PM

where can i find a doctor to reperscribe it to me? i was on aderrall for a while, but then had to stop because i moved away from my old doctor. state had the medical records transferred, but said i had to get an off-campus reevaluation to start taking it again.

1/16/2006 4:43:16 PM

^It'd be nice if you could simply get it OTC, wouldn't it?......

---------------------------------------------------

Quote :

"So you basically believe that medicine is only medicine if it's used for physical ailments and any psychological treatment is just drugs that should be avoided."

(I'm sure you meant psychiatric, not psychological, didn't you? There are no drug treatments in psychology.)

Not exactly.
I'll try to explain it the way I wish everyone would explain things, namely:
- my personal view (the decisions that only affect me)
vs.
- my political view (the decisions that affect everyone)

My personal view is that most drugs are unnecessary (1). I tend to view pharmaceutical drugs as a last resort, after everything else has been tried. Even if you're talking about physical ailments like "acid-reflux disease", I don't like the way the word "disease" is thrown around. I'm not even sure "acid-reflux" should be considered a "disease", but rather simply a condition or malady. (I am not playing word games here--words need to mean specific things--the pen is mightier than the sword.) You could take an OTC PPI like Prilosec every day for the rest of you life, and get to continue eating crap--or you could simply take better care of yourself by eating and exercising better and never suffer from those stomach pains anymore.

Indeed, a large portion, perhaps a majority, of the entire Western medical [drug] model is philosophically bunk--it puts an enormous focus on treating people with drugs once they're sick (2), but ignores the role of maintaining ones health/well-being in order to avoid becoming sick in the first place. If you go to most physicians and complain of the symptoms associated with "acid-reflux", you will receive a script for a drug (Nexium) and a bill for the visit. At no point will the doctor suggest "Maybe you should eat better." Why won't the doctor give this advice? They're taught not to! They're taught that people are lazy and addicted to modern consumer life, and therefore are unlikely to ever modify their own bad behaviors/habits. Sadly, for many people this is true, but still, doctors should be more concerned with why the patient is sick, and how to educate the patient so that they may prevent themselves from being sick in the future. Have you ever been to a physician's home? They are drowning in free shit (gifts, ads, etc.) from pharmaceutical companies. Sadly, American doctors are pretty much g0vt drug dealers. If they really cared about you, they wouldn't just prescribe a drug.

So, from a personal point of view, I choose not to take medicine unless it's absolutely necessary. (The reason I tend to focus my criticism of Western [drug] medicine on psychiatry is because the mind is so much more important than the stomach. Also, psychiatry is a political issue that affects individual liberty--so far as know, no one is forced by law to take non-psychiatric drugs.)


My political view is that all drugs should be legal. (I know that this is controversial.) I don't think the government should have any say about how an individual may seek products (drugs, herbs, dietary supplements, etc.) or services (surgery, chiropractic, massage, etc.) for their own health/well-being (3). Doctors should not have the legal class that they have. Everyone, not just doctors, should have the same legal (1st amendment) right to suggest to anyone what type of care they should receive/seek. This is the "libertarian" perspective. Libertarians don't believe that the initiation of force is ever justified to achieve a political or social end. Libertarians believe that personal responsibility and liberty go hand-in-hand. IOW, Libertarians believe that individuals should have the right to do anything, provided that it doesn't harm anyone else, their property, or their right to the same (4). I don't want to ban psychiatric drugs, because that would prevent someone else from the right to consume them, should they want. There is a dangerous mix of government and medicine in our country. More attention is put on the separation of government and religion, (which I also believe in,) than in the separation of government and medicine. It will become a huge issue soon, trust me.--(euthanasia, medical marijuana, right to die, etc.) When I hear shit like "A former member of the super secret National Security Agency (NSA) has, in the first time in it's history, demanded to speak before the US Senate to detail abuses within the agency. After doing so, the agent was fired by the NSA. Before termination, however, the NSA forced him to undergo a psychiatric evaluation. The diagnosis? "Paranoid ideation." Psychiatry has become a g0vt tool to discredit political opponents!!", it all but proves that psychiatry has not changed much since it's beginning in Nazi Germany. In fact, the post-WWII organization that eventually became the APA (American Psychiatric Association) had members that were actual Nazi psychiatrists whom emigrated after the war. I am not making this up. Also, American psychiatry was very closely connected to the eugenics movement last century--which didn't end until the 1970's!! It is not medicine. It is a means of authoritarian control--which is why libertarians and others who value individual liberty oppose it. (read: http://www.antipsychiatry.org/weitz2.htm)

Quote :

"What about schizophrenics and other more serious mental ailments?"

I'll leave this to a Wiki:

Quote :

"Alternative approaches to schizophrenia (see next post) "

(1) - Just because something is not necessary doesn't mean and shouldn't imply that it should be avoided. Only doing things that are actually necessary is something the Amish, or other minimalist purists might do. I consume alcohol and marijuana, and they are unnecessary, but it's my choice to do so.

(2) - There is a place for palliative care--as a last resort. I just think that physicians should be more honest with their patients and inform them that by adjusting their lifestyles, they wouldn't need the unnecessary, albeit effective, palliative care that drugs provide.

(3) - Unless, of course, the individual somehow harms someone else or someone else's property in the process. Also, not if the provider of the product or service is committing fraud, extortion, etc. IOW, as long as no other harm is associated with the individual's seeking of products or services.

(4) - I am not a "full-blooded" libertarian in that I believe that individuals should have the right to do anything, provided that it doesn't harm anyone else, their property, or their right to the same, as well as not harming the environment or endangered species. I think that damage to the environment, although indirectly, is physically harmful to others and harmful to their right to experience the beauty of virgin nature.




[Edited on January 16, 2006 at 6:10 PM. Reason : excerpt too long.....]

1/16/2006 6:05:49 PM

Quote :

"Alternative approaches to schizophrenia An approach broadly known as the anti-psychiatry movement, notably most active in the 1960s, has opposed the orthodox medical view of schizophrenia as an illness. Psychiatrist Thomas Szasz has argued that psychiatric patients are not ill but are just individuals with unconventional thoughts and behavior that make society uncomfortable. He argues that society unjustly seeks to control such individuals by classifying their behavior as an illness and forcibly treating them as a method of social control. An important but subtle point is that Szasz has never denied the existence of the phenomena that mainstream psychiatry classifies as an illness (such as delusions, hallucinations or mood changes) but simply does not believe that they are a form of illness. Similarly, psychiatrist R. D. Laing has argued that the symptoms of what is normally called mental illness are just comprehensible reactions to impossible demands that society and particularly family life places on some sensitive individuals. Laing was revolutionary in valuing the content of psychotic experience as worthy of interpretation, rather than considering it simply as a secondary but essentially meaningless marker of underlying psychological or neurological distress. It is worth noting that neither Szasz nor Laing ever considered themselves to be "anti-psychiatry" in the sense of being against psychiatric treatment, but simply believed that it should be conducted between consenting adults, rather than imposed upon anyone against their will. In the 1976 book The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, psychologist Julian Jaynes proposed that until the beginning of historic times, schizophrenia or a similar condition was the normal state of human consciousness. This would take the form of a "bicameral mind" where a normal state of low affect, suitable for routine activities, would be interrupted in moments of crisis by "mysterious voices" giving instructions, which early people characterized as interventions from the gods. This theory was briefly controversial. Continuing research has failed to either further confirm or refute the thesis. Psychiatrist Tim Crow has argued that schizophrenia may be the evolutionary price we pay for a left brain hemisphere specialization for language.(56) Since psychosis is associated with greater levels of right brain hemisphere activation and a reduction in the usual left brain hemisphere dominance, our language abilities may have evolved at the cost of causing schizophrenia when this system breaks down. Researchers into shamanism have speculated that in some cultures schizophrenia or related conditions may predispose an individual to becoming a shaman(57). Certainly, the experience of having access to multiple realities is not uncommon in schizophrenia, and is a core experience in many shamanic traditions. Equally, the shaman may have the skill to bring on and direct some of the altered states of consciousness psychiatrists label as illness. (See anti-psychiatry.) Speculations regarding primary and important religious figures as having schizophrenia abound. Some commentators have endorsed the idea that major religious figures experienced psychosis, heard voices and displayed delusions of grandeur. Alternative medicine tends to hold the view that schizophrenia is primarily caused by imbalances in the body's reserves and absorption of dietary minerals, vitamins, fats, and/or the presence of excessive levels of toxic heavy metals. The body's adverse reactions to gluten are also strongly implicated in some alternative theories (see gluten-free, casein-free diet). One theory put forward by psychiatrists E. Fuller Torrey and R.H. Yolken is that the parasite Toxoplasma gondii leads to some, if not many, cases of schizophrenia.(58) An additional approach is suggested by the work of Richard Bandler who argues that "The usual difference between someone who hallucinates and someone who visualizes normally, is that the person who hallucinates doesn't know he's doing it or doesn't have any choice about it." (Time for a Change, p107). He suggests that because visualization is a sophisticated mental capability, schizophrenia is a skill, albeit an involuntary and dysfunctional one that is being used but not controlled. He therefore suggests that a significant route to treating schizophrenia might be to teach the missing skill - how to distinguish created reality from consensus external reality, to reduce its maladaptive impact, and ultimately how to exercise appropriate control over the visualization or auditory process. Hypnotic approaches have been explored by the physician Milton H. Erickson as a means of facilitating this. Note 56: Fitzgerald PB, de Castella AR, Filia KM, Filia SL, Benitez J, Kulkarni J. (2005) Victimization of patients with schizophrenia and related disorders. Australia and New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry, 39(3), 169-74. (1), 187-9. Note 57: Crow, T. J. (1997) Schizophrenia as failure of hemispheric dominance for language. Trends in Neurosciences, 20(8), 339-343. Note 58: Polimeni J, Reiss JP. (2002) How shamanism and group selection may reveal the origins of schizophrenia. Medical Hypothesis, 58(3), 244-8."

1/16/2006 6:10:56 PM

Quote :

"where can i find a doctor to reperscribe it to me? i was on aderrall for a while, but then had to stop because i moved away from my old doctor. state had the medical records transferred, but said i had to get an off-campus reevaluation to start taking it again."

your insurance company can tell you.
once you find one, explain the situation, and ask them to fax you a records release form (or go in and sign one), and have them request your records from your old doc.
just be warned that the copay on a new intake appt might be higher than a usual visit. My dad's old pdoc charges ~$350 for intake appts, versus ~$175 for regular visits.

1/16/2006 6:50:38 PM

I take adderall (15 mg). I can take it twice a day, but I usually only take it when I have to study or sit through class and need to concentrate. It basically works pretty well for me... You'll definitely start to build up a tolerance...but instead of upping my dose, I usually just stop taking it for awhile. (Basically didn't take it for a month and a half until last week)... Most ppl who take it and NEED it, aren't the ones who abuse it...it's usually the ppl who don't need em and look all cracked out when they take em that are the ones that bring it up constantly. I dont walk around like "OMG I HAVE ADDERALL- WANNA GET JACKED AND STUDY??!" it just gets me to a point where I can actually sit down and focus a little more on things I need to get done. (and usually I don't like it when ppl mention to other ppl that I take them bc inevitably I have ppl bugging me for them all the time)

But to each their own. I dont try to peddle my pills off on ppl who dont believe in taking pills... if they help me get my stuff done then WHATS THE PROBLEM?

1/17/2006 1:32:23 AM

Quote :

"But to each their own. I dont try to peddle my pills off on ppl who dont believe in taking pills... if they help me get my stuff done then WHATS THE PROBLEM?"

The problem is not the drugs. If you've read this entire thread, [I highly recommend it] you'll see that I've repeatedly said that. The problem is the practice of psychiatry and it's closeness to the government/law. The problem is the pathologization of normal non-disease conditions--and people beginning to view things this way because they're told to do so. It's one thing for someone to say to themselves "I feel depressed. Seeing as how these feelings are normal and do not constitute a "disease", I don't need to see a doctor. Instead, I can use my adult intelligence and responsibility to learn about various options, including drugs, that may help me feel better. I've thought about simply eating or exercising better, but I'd rather just take a pill. Fortunately, I can easily obtain these pills OTC", but it's different for someone to say "I feel depressed. It must be this disease I've heard about called depression--I'd better get some medicine from a doctor."

Context people, context!


------------------------------------------------


Psychiatry is a pseudo-science.
(I will bet anyone $1,000 that this view will, in our lifetimes, be a view held by 51%+ of the world.)

from Wiki:

Quote :

" According to the philosophy of science, for a theory to qualify as scientific it must be: - Consistent (internally and externally) - Parsimonious (sparing in proposed entities or explanations, see Occam's Razor) - Useful (describes and explains observed phenomena) - Empirically testable & falsifiable (see Falsifiability) - Based upon multiple observations, often in the form of controlled, repeated experiments - Correctable & dynamic (changes are made as new data are discovered) - Progressive (achieves all that previous theories have and more) - Provisional or tentative (admits that it might not be correct rather than asserting certainty) According to critics, psychiatry does not qualify as a science on most counts. Some examples of psychiatric hypothesis which are claimed to be untestable, unfalsifiable or simply wrong are the following: - There exists an ideal 'balance' of neurochemicals, which should be roughly the same in all human brains. - There exists an ideal human neuroanatomy. - Behavior may be classified as either objectively normal or abnormal. - Classifications of disorders in the DSM correspond to true physical disorders. - A given patient is "in denial" or suppressing thoughts/wishes/actions. (See closed circle). - Claims by psychiatric patients to the effect that they don't have a disorder or are not suffering from it are not believable because of cognitive distortion caused by the disorder. - A young child or a patient without communication skills is suffering from a disorder. - A given defendent is not guilty because he could not tell right from wrong. - Hypnosis helps recall "repressed memories". Critics further note that simply naming behavior patterns and calling them illness does not automatically make them diseases in the standard medical sense. "

1/18/2006 9:59:58 AM

lay off the weed man.

1/18/2006 10:01:26 AM

^I suppose everyone, including famous life-long authors, philosophers, psychologists, and other scientists who hold the same view about psychiatry also need to "lay off the weed"?

sober, your highly predictable weed comments make you look stupid, not me. They aren't funny. You aren't funny. Can’t the pony do any more tricks? No? I didn't think so. At least you tried, I guess....

Look, I'm sorry if some pot-head raped your mom or pissed in your cornflakes, but your anti-marijuana-user attitude is no different from common bigotry. That's right--I said it. You are nothing but a two bit bigot. Now fuck off.

1/18/2006 10:17:20 AM

I'm glad I'm taking Strattera rather than something like Adderall. I don't notice any drastic change in my general demeanor and wellbeing except for the side effects during the adjustment phase. I take 80mg a day. I'd rather just take a tame one daily, than to take one that would make my body experience ups and downs when going off and back onto the drug. I notice a vast increase in alertness, ability to get out of bed when I need to in the mornings, concentration and getting schoolwork done before the last minute, etc, but without major physical or other mental changes.

1/18/2006 10:32:50 AM

speaking of predictable.

that sounds like the random babbling (like most of your posts) of some burned out stoner who thinks they have the world figured out.

people like you are the ones that give pot a bad name.

1/18/2006 10:34:16 AM

1/18/2006 11:04:57 AM

speaking of predictable.

1/18/2006 11:05:37 AM

1/18/2006 11:15:04 AM

Quote :

"Psychiatry is a pseudo-science. "

Psychiatry is part of the core curricula taught by EVERY medical school.

So you can cite wikipedia as the be all end all if you like, but the reality is that psychiatry is fully accepted in both allopathic and osteopathic medicine.

1/18/2006 11:17:46 AM

BECAUSE THAT MAKES IT OK


When the US was still practicing eugenics in the 1970’s, it was also "fully accepted in medicine."

When homosexuality was considered a "mental illness", that view was also "fully accepted in medicine."

When Nazi scientists used psychiatry to murder over 100,000 people, it was also "fully accepted in medicine."



Why don't you actually make a point that matters?

[Edited on January 18, 2006 at 11:44 AM. Reason : ]

1/18/2006 11:26:39 AM

you remind me of a little kid, who just sticks his fingers in his ears and screams "LA LA LA LA LA" whenever someone says something you dont agree with.

1/18/2006 11:28:49 AM

^actually, that's how I view you....what a coincidence!

Anyone with a brain who reads this thread will clearly see that I've made many meaningful points; whereas you are just an immature bigot trying to troll and waste people's time.

Seriously. Let's print out this thread, take it to 5 NCSU professors, (of your choice,) and ask them to identify the intelligent meaningful posts from the stupid pointless posts. I'll bet you $1,000 that at least 4 of the 5 will side with me.

You are a moron, and it is obvious. No matter how many stupid comebacks and insults you throw my way, the fact remains.

1/18/2006 11:38:11 AM

so let me get this straight. im immature, but its perfectly mature to challange someone to a fight based purely on what they said on an online message board.

one day, i hope to reach your level of maturity.

1/18/2006 11:42:14 AM

See? Now you're making stuff up.

I never challenged you to a fight. Check my words:

Quote :

"I would challenge you to a public fight, but you'd chicken out of that as well."

Will you take the bet? ^^
Or are you too chicken?

1/18/2006 11:50:20 AM

youre right...thats MUCH more mature. what was i thinking!?!?

1/18/2006 11:57:55 AM

***gets last word in***

1/18/2006 12:03:23 PM

Quote :

"When the US was still practicing eugenics in the 1970’s, it was also "fully accepted in medicine." When homosexuality was considered a "mental illness", that view was also "fully accepted in medicine." When Nazi scientists used psychiatry to murder over 100,000 people, it was also "fully accepted in medicine." Why don't you actually make a point that matters?"

Let's play a little game called "Point out the Logical Fallacy"

I see a strawman sledding down a slippery slope.

Basically, you're defending your assertion that psychiatry is quack science because faulty medical practices existed previously and citing Wikipedia as evidence. Also, you've been parroting this line of reasoning based on overdiagnosis of ADD/ADHD in this country. The fact that there are doctors out there who overprescribe drugs out of neglecting their due diligence does not invalidate the science behind it.

If you want to discredit psychiatry, then the burden of proof is on you to do that.

1/18/2006 1:14:19 PM

Quote :

"Basically, you're defending your assertion that psychiatry is quack science because faulty medical practices existed previously"

No, I'm refuting your point that because psychiatry is "fully accepted in medicine" is must be OK.…....idiot.

Quote :

"Also, you've been parroting this line of reasoning based on overdiagnosis of ADD/ADHD in this country. The fact that there are doctors out there who overprescribe drugs out of neglecting their due diligence does not invalidate the science behind it."

Not only have I not been "parroting" a line reasoning based on overdiagnosis of ADD/ADHD, I haven't mentioned it once. What the fuck are you talking about?

Quote :

"If you want to discredit psychiatry, then the burden of proof is on you to do that."

I've clearly spelled it out, but apparently you just assumed to know what my line of reasoning was, without actually reading my posts.

You see, it’s people like you--ones that think issues are "black-and-white"--that are responsible for how stupid our country is becoming. All you gathered is that I was somehow opposed to psychiatry, so you assumed that I must be spouting the same reasoning as is most often associated with criticism of psychiatry. If you actually had read this thread, you’d have seen that my criticism is far different. If morons like you weren’t so convinced that you already knew what people were thinking before having listened to them (or having read their writings,) perhaps you might actually learn something. Get a clue.

[Edited on January 18, 2006 at 2:27 PM. Reason : ]

1/18/2006 2:06:39 PM

Quote :

"Lexapro is the shit btw"

I agree, although I take 30 mg of that with 20 mg Remeron for depression, I didn't realize it was an ADHD/ADD drug

1/18/2006 3:36:25 PM

wow.......


amazing.

1/18/2006 3:49:23 PM

Quote :

"I agree, although I take 30 mg of that with 20 mg Remeron for depression, I didn't realize it was an ADHD/ADD drug"

it's not.

1/18/2006 4:37:03 PM

america and all of western civilization did just fine for the last 10,000 years without addies.

2/18/2006 4:15:18 AM

So the end result of all this overprescribing is a generation of speed freaks; addicted users with presciptions renewed at any time. Are they planning on taking amphetamines for the rest of their lives (with whatever health effects that might entail), or will they one day step up and face reality and the withdrawals? I've seen it in my own friends, who swear they will slow down, pop another Adderall to combat the depression of withdrawals.

2/18/2006 11:36:06 AM

aside from all the fighting.

everyone list your doctor, for those interested in being tested for ADHD

2/20/2006 10:52:22 AM

Dr. Douglas Hammer

2/20/2006 10:57:36 AM

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/symptom.htm

Quote :

"Often avoids, dislikes, or doesn't want to do things that take a lot of mental effort for a long period of time (such as schoolwork or homework). "

I've got the not enjoying homework thing down.

Quote :

"Often runs about or climbs when and where it is not appropriate (adolescents or adults may feel very restless)."

Until I busted up my toe which has effectively immobilized my climbing attempts & will continue to do so for a few more months, I used to climb & swing everything. Other than slightly compulsive climbing, I don't have anything to an abnormal degree enough to be considered a disorder. I know b/c philosophy & inattention could never mix.

I opted not to take regular meds back when I had arthritis... the idea of giving into it and taking meds regularly and indefinitely made me feel defeated. I think if I have had a disorder I would avoid routine meds unless it was absolutely necessary. Luckily with a temporary changing of physical activity the arthritis went away on its own (I think I may have had the same arthritis specialist that my granddad saw). Not sure what caused it, maybe it was just a year of still growing while in high school.

Or maybe it was nature’s way of defending me against the desire to climb on and jump off things… but I showed nature! (I’ll be happy when my toenail grows back though)

2/20/2006 11:13:24 AM

tl;dr

9/5/2017 9:34:41 PM

Actually I'm on dextroamphetamine 10mg per day.

9/10/2017 6:36:51 PM

Same

9/22/2017 7:21:53 PM

^^ Dex rocks. They used to give it to us on combat deployments, working long hours and flying long missions at odd hours.

The point was that it's a stimulant, but I found I was MASSIVELY more productive and focused on it.

I kinda think I might be ADD, but undiagnosed and able to cope with it pretty well. I'm prob less afflicted than some, and I think I'm smart enough to just brute-force things cognitively sometimes, even as I inadvertently make things harder than they need to be and shoot myself in the foot, haha. I think that I've developed coping strategies over the years to the point where I do OK, but I've always scored extremely high test scores, and made comparatively mediocre grades. I have learned a huge breadth of different stuff, and I crave mental stimulation pretty much all the time in one way or another, but I think I have a harder time than most people do with tedious stuff or anything that I'm not genuinely interested in.

I do find that I have a hell of a caffeine intake, and it doesn't really have a significant effect on me (like...I can drink a small pot of coffee, like 4-5 cups, or an energy drink, and go right to sleep). As I start staring down a master's degree (or possibly two?), I had thought about going and getting potentially diagnosed and getting meds, but it turns out that the FAA will revoke your medical for ADD meds. In fact, I think that the ADD diagnosis itself is downing. In any case, you have to be off-meds for 90-days, and then undergo an evaluation with a series of tests to make sure you do OK, before you can fly again.

Unless they change their tune on that, I suppose I'll keep flying, brew another pot of coffee, have 50% effectiveness while studying, and leave whether or not I have ADD undetermined, haha.


odd that a Navy flight surgeon can give you Dex specifically so you can stay alert and focused in a $60M, 55,000 lb, 650 mph jet packing bombs, missiles, or jamming pods...but the FAA flips their fucking lid about the prospect of a civilian pilot taking the same or similar meds and flying a 65-hp, 85-mph, 1000-lb Piper Cub.

[Edited on September 22, 2017 at 9:58 PM. Reason : The horror. ]

[Edited on September 22, 2017 at 9:59 PM. Reason : ]

9/22/2017 9:52:38 PM

^Excellent post. I concur

9/23/2017 8:07:37 AM

Quote :

"I kinda think I might be ADD, but undiagnosed and able to cope with it pretty well. I'm prob less afflicted than some, and I think I'm smart enough to just brute-force things cognitively sometimes, even as I inadvertently make things harder than they need to be and shoot myself in the foot, haha. I think that I've developed coping strategies over the years to the point where I do OK, but I've always scored extremely high test scores, and made comparatively mediocre grades. I have learned a huge breadth of different stuff, and I crave mental stimulation pretty much all the time in one way or another, but I think I have a harder time than most people do with tedious stuff or anything that I'm not genuinely interested in. I do find that I have a hell of a caffeine intake, and it doesn't really have a significant effect on me (like...I can drink a small pot of coffee, like 4-5 cups, or an energy drink, and go right to sleep). "

my experience exactly

9/23/2017 5:21:42 PM

I started getting anxiety in my late 20s for seemingly no reason and it got to where certain situations call for me to take Xanax to feel comfortable. My physician basically said it's harder for them to prescribe it so he sent me to a psychiatrist for refills.

Psychiatrist said that she thinks my anxiety is the result of untreated ADD/ADHD - essentially my adrenaline is constantly going and it upsets my stomach (big part of my anxiety) and makes it so it's very hard for me to sit still in situations like meetings/class where my anxiety is most pronounced. She wants to try me on Concerta but the idea of adding a potential nausea invoking medication and also a stimulant seems counter intuitive to me. She also suspects this may be due to issues with my thyroid.

I guess my question is have y'all ever used ADD/ADHD meds to treat anxiety? Did it help?

10/3/2017 11:17:36 AM