Kobe will never attain the level of "greatness" that Jordan did and it won't be for a lack of basketball ability. Jordan came around at the right time(when the NBA was gaining momentum with Bird vs. Magic), with the beginnings of ESPN, and he knew how to market himself correctly. Not to mention that he was a great basketball player on both ends of the court.

It's been said before but it's true: there are kids in third world countries who've never seen a basketball game played but know who Michael Jordan is.

It's for these reasons that they aren't comparable.

1/23/2006 2:18:37 AM

Well, obviously Kobe is a better scorer than Jordan... no one would argue that.


#1) Jordan wasnt a good 3-pt shooter

#2) Kobe is a better FT shooter

#3) Kobe is playing an era where even 20ppg scorers arent common let along 30ppg scorers.

1/23/2006 2:21:21 AM

Of course the Pistons probably laugh when they hear about/see this.

1/23/2006 2:27:10 AM

^^thats debatable.

Jordan had the ability to score 40 points a game. I think he averaged 37 ppg in his 3rd year in the league. He also had a higher fg% than Kobe.

But at this stage in his career, he passed the ball more than Kobe does.

1/23/2006 2:37:59 AM

he had a higher FG% because Jordan didnt shoot threes.


If you look at points per possession its pretty damn close I'm sure.


You have to count 3pters as 1.5 FGM

and FTM count as 0.5 FGM

and FTA count as 0.5 FGA

Then we'll see who was the more efficient scorer.


Then remember that NBA defense is 100 times tougher in 2006 than it was in 1986. Guys are really challenging Kobe every night and he is flat out bringing it.

1/23/2006 3:01:16 AM

so is anybody in this thread going (mostly those who are talking shit about Kobe) going to tell me that Jordan would lead this lakers team to a record much better than 22-17? I dont know if any of you have noticed, but Kobe has damn near nobody as a supporting cast

1/23/2006 3:37:02 AM

...so you're saying that he ran Shaq out of town so he could give the team an excuse for losing games?

Interesting.

1/23/2006 3:39:19 AM

no, i am saying that his supporting cast sucks. Even if shaq was still in LA the lakers wouldnt be much better than they are now. Without looking it up, you probably couldnt name 6 lakers besides kobe.

get over, the fat fuck is in miami, where he'll never win another NBA title

1/23/2006 3:55:33 AM

KB just put up an amazing game and some of you are bitching about assists?

he doesn't struggle to get assists because he's a ballhog; he struggles because the rest of those guys aren't GOOD. i'm sure nobody on the lakers' team is complaining about "aww man, kobe only had two assists this whole game, MAN he shoulda looked for Slava Medvedenko more often!"

1/23/2006 5:29:47 AM

Great individual performance, yes. And yes, on talent, maybe he is the best in the NBA.

But it is complete, utter bullshit to throw out the "OMG he's alone on a shitty team!!11!1" line when Kobe forced the Lakers to trade one of the most dominant centers in the league because he couldn't handle sharing the spotlight.

Basketball is 5-on-5, not 1-on-1, so no matter how good Kobe is it means precisely jack shit until he learns how to work on a team.

1/23/2006 6:12:30 AM

Would you want pay 20 million plus dollars to a big man who doesn't have the durability to play the whole season?

Who is overweight?

Who's stats and abilities are diminishing noticably with each passing year?


Dr. Buss takes sole responsibility for not signing Shaq, and I don't blame him. It was a business decision. I'm not ignorant to think that Kobe had nothing to do with it, but at least Buss was smart enough to know who he should build a future around, and it wasn't Shaq.

Shaq lost weight for ONE year to try and make the Lakers feel stupid for not resigning him...now look at him. I'd rather start Zo Mourning over him (plays much better defense and is a greater defensive presence at that, still has good offensive moves). He's being outplayed by a guy with a kidney transplant.

And at least Kobe had two assists this time compared to zero for the Dallas game. But unless you watched the game to its entirety, you'll know if he tried to pass or not. When the rest of the team shoots .333 from the field, yeah, I think even Jordan would find it hard to rack up his assist total.

1/23/2006 7:11:14 AM

I won't say that Kobe's on a shitty team, per se, but at times those other guys (Odom, Mihm, Brown, Parker, Vujacic, etc) disappear. Kobe can shoulder the load sometimes, and other times he can't. As far as sharing the spotlight, Kobe had some awesome games with Shaq on the team also. Hell when they had the fearsome foursome, everyone was saying to look out for Kobe.

When the Lakers had to choose between Kobe and Shaq, Shaq had 3 - MAYBE 4 - years left in the tank. Kobe was what, 25 then? I'd say he's good for another 10 years MINIMUM. Nights like this help confirm that thought.

I do agree though, he DOES need to learn how to carry a partner, a sidekick along with him... AI never really grasped this, and it took Jordan about 5-6 years to...

1/23/2006 7:13:53 AM

When Kobe wins a fucking NBA Finals MVP.....come back and talk to me about being in the same league as Jordan...other than that, what ever.....81....so...do it in the playoffs.......Oh wait....the lakers might not make it....damn thats right.....if you have a problem getting into the playoffs in todays set up....you need to change some shit

1/23/2006 7:27:58 AM

As much as I'm not a fan of Shaq..............Kwame Brown?


LOL.

1/23/2006 8:20:47 AM

152-149, where the hell is the defense


122-104

1/23/2006 9:45:11 AM

it pretty obvious that kobe has completely forgot about passing and is trying to win game completely on his own, if jordan did that he could have scored 125

1/23/2006 9:53:29 AM

Quote :

"I do agree though, he DOES need to learn how to carry a partner, a sidekick along with him... AI never really grasped this, and it took Jordan about 5-6 years to..."

As a Sixers fan, that's one of the things that's pissed me off about AI for a long time. He finally seems to be adjusting to it now, and I'm really glad to see him trying to get other guys involved.

It certainly doesn't hurt that they finally provided a real post option in Webber, but I enjoy watching them more when Iguodala and Korver are in on the game too.

1/23/2006 10:19:33 AM

AI has never had anybody worth shit for a teammate

he carried the sixers to the finals basically by himself

1/23/2006 10:40:53 AM

Hey, he had Eric Snow on that team!

1/23/2006 10:41:57 AM

I just now saw this. that is amazing

I cant even do that on xbox with the fouls turned off.

[Edited on January 23, 2006 at 11:01 AM. Reason : jesus.]

1/23/2006 10:59:56 AM

Quote :

"Of course the Pistons probably laugh when they hear about/see this."

i know

1/23/2006 11:04:52 AM

I hope Kobe keeps this up, I mean hes in the books for most points in back to back games... and If he has another great game in the next game, he could be first all time...

1/23/2006 11:07:19 AM

compare the nba skill level of the jordan era to this one

jordan's era had better players and better defenders so jordans feat is still way better

1/23/2006 11:55:53 AM

...you seriously think the NBA had better defenders in the '80s and early-mid '90s?

1/23/2006 11:56:38 AM

i don't know about individual talents, but its seems like back then there were better fundamentals. i think the pistons are probably the best example of a throwback team

1/23/2006 12:01:59 PM

exactly, the teams now dont play great team defense and players are generally more talented but alot dumber

so kobe coundnt even score 60 in jordan's time, i'd say

1/23/2006 12:20:52 PM

Quote :

"Jordan never even made the playoffs without Scottie Pippen. "

Um, you may want to check out game 2 of the Celtics-Bulls series from round one of 1986. Second year player Michael Jordan dropped 63 on one of the greatest teams in the history of the NBA. It has been frequently shown on ESPN Classic over the years. Scottie Pippen was a junior that year, and a senior the next when the Bulls made the playoffs again.

1/23/2006 1:12:59 PM

^ thank you.....if the teams are so good now....and the players are better...how come the dream team was so good? Hmm...what place did we get in with todays players? Ya.....
The 80s and 90s are considered the golden years of pro basketball....look it up...

On another note, that was game 666 for Kobe....interesting........

[Edited on January 23, 2006 at 1:24 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on January 23, 2006 at 1:24 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on January 23, 2006 at 1:25 PM. Reason : ..]

1/23/2006 1:24:07 PM

Kobe done sold his soul for some points.

1/23/2006 1:25:21 PM

Quote :

"exactly, the teams now dont play great team defense and players are generally more talented but alot dumber so kobe coundnt even score 60 in jordan's time, i'd say"

Are you fucking serious? Defense is 10 times harder than it was during Jordans era. The NBA was notorious for not playing defense in the 80's. Moronic statement.

Quote :

" Um, you may want to check out game 2 of the Celtics-Bulls series from round one of 1986."

Sorry, I misspoke. I didn't mean to say he coudlnt make the playoffs. I meant to say "Jordan never even went .500 without Scottie Pippen."

You see, the year Jordan "dropped" 63 (first of all lets remember the game went to Double OT) on the Celtics in the "playoffs" (second of all lets remember that the Bulls got swept)....

The Bulls were 30-52.

That means they won 36.6% of their games. In other words, Chuck Amato has a better home winning percentage than that.


So for comparative purposes... the Bulls really never made the "playoffs". They might have showed up looking for a game, but they certainly werent in it.

1/23/2006 1:31:07 PM

Quote :

"thank you.....if the teams are so good now....and the players are better...how come the dream team was so good? Hmm...what place did we get in with todays players? Ya..... The 80s and 90s are considered the golden years of pro basketball....look it up..."

What on earth does this prove?


Congratulations, you are the last person in the United States to realize that International basketball has improved immensely.

So because the USA can win a game here and there in the World Cup these days, does that mean European teams have gotten weaker in soccer?



Let's see.... three of the top players in the NBA.... Lebron James, Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant. All missed the playoffs last year. If that's not proof that the NBA is loaded with talent i dont know what is.



[Edited on January 23, 2006 at 1:34 PM. Reason : a]

1/23/2006 1:33:13 PM

^ I guess the Pistons never played defense in the 80s....they just got their name from being mean....and they won two championships from just playing offense. BULLSHIT....back then you had to play man to man defense you stupid bastard.....thats why the bulls were so succesfull in the 90s....triangle defense...........today you just set up the zone.....easy....so sitdown, shutup, listen and learn..............

1/23/2006 1:35:25 PM

oh my god. I guess you told me.


You picked one team who played great defense and really let me have it.



So I guess Golden State was playing great defense back then too.


Look at the numbers and get back to me.

1/23/2006 1:39:32 PM

^^wait

so you are using the fact that today's teams can play more diverse defensive alignments as an argument AGAINST the strength of today's D's??

1/23/2006 1:42:40 PM

who gives a fuck a/b the nba












let alone kobe

1/23/2006 1:42:49 PM

^ agreed

1/23/2006 1:46:06 PM

Diverse...ha....

1/23/2006 1:46:18 PM

its been my arguement all year kobe is the best player in the NBA

1/23/2006 1:48:42 PM

Arguing about how much the game has changed over 15 years is stupid.

Overall scoring is down from the 80's, and down slightly from the 90's. But the top 2 or 3 scorers are still scoring 30+ ppg, just like in the 80's and 90's. Thats because the game is less team-oriented. Offenses revolve around isolating the top scorer against 1 defender. Assists are way down from the 80's, pg's aren't averaging 10+ assists per game anymore.

What does it all mean? Nothing. You have to compare Kobe's statistics to those of his current peers as well as Jordans. And right now, Kobe isn't clearly the best player in the league. He is damn good, but he has not separated himself from the rest of the pack the way Jordan did in his prime.

1/23/2006 1:49:14 PM

kobe plays better D then pretty much anyone else in the league

1/23/2006 1:50:08 PM

^^ I could agree with you

[Edited on January 23, 2006 at 1:50 PM. Reason : .]

1/23/2006 1:50:27 PM

Quote :

"Sorry, I misspoke. I didn't mean to say he coudlnt make the playoffs. I meant to say "Jordan never even went .500 without Scottie Pippen." You see, the year Jordan "dropped" 63 (first of all lets remember the game went to Double OT) on the Celtics in the "playoffs" (second of all lets remember that the Bulls got swept).... The Bulls were 30-52. That means they won 36.6% of their games. In other words, Chuck Amato has a better home winning percentage than that."

Jordan only played 18 games that year. He broke his ankle the first week of the season, and against many fans wishes (including mine, would rather have had a lottery pick) he came back at the very end of the season and dragged that sorry group into the playoffs. Yes, the game went to double OT, but in his prime at the time Larry Bird said "That was God disguised as Michael Jordan" afterwards.

1/23/2006 2:19:49 PM

i enjoyed this quote from an article by Chris Broussard on espn insider about kobe:

"I recently asked three young players who the best player in the league was. These were not just any young players. One is a superstar, one is an emerging superstar and the other has star potential... all of them insisted that Kobe Bean Bryant is the league's best player, hands down...
even Shaq told me in the heat of their hatred two years ago that Kobe was the best player ever. When I responded, "What about Michael?'' He said, "What about him?''

1/23/2006 2:39:59 PM

Quote :

"even Shaq told me in the heat of their hatred two years ago that Kobe was the best player ever. When I responded, "What about Michael?'' He said, "What about him?'' "

Haha, I love Shaq!

Watching Kobe reminds me so much of Jordan. The fluidity of the way they move on the court and some of their maneurisms are so freakishly similar to me.

1/23/2006 4:42:28 PM

kobe is the best scorer of all time. I know he takes a lot of shots but he has proven he can score at anytime and make the clutch shot

1/23/2006 4:51:55 PM

^^thats cause kobe emulates jordan in all areas of his game. if only he'd learned how not to be a douche.

1/23/2006 5:12:50 PM

MJ could be that at times too, y'know

1/23/2006 5:23:56 PM

1/23/2006 5:44:59 PM

here's kobe's line against jordan's 69 in 1990 against the cavs

Kobe:
42 minutes
28-46 (60.8%) from the field
22-33 (66%) from inside the arc
7-13 (53.8%) from behind the arc
18-20 (90%) from the line
2 offensive rebounds, 4 defensive rebounds
2 assists
3 steals
1 block
3 turnovers
1 foul
52.3% of team's shots
66.4% of team's points
Lakers won by 18

Jordan:
50 minutes
23-37 (62.2%) from the field
21-31 (67.7%) from inside the arc
2-6 (33%) from behind the arc
21-23 (91.3%) from the line
7 offensive rebounds, 11 defensive rebounds
6 assists
4 steals
1 block
2 turnovers
5 fouls
42.5% of team's shots
59% of team's points
Bulls won by 4 in OT

18 rebounds = trump

1/23/2006 5:56:09 PM

jordan could be a douche every once in a while (i cant stand jordan, so its not like i'm defending the guy), but jordan struck me as a more likeable person, on and off the court, than kobe. kobe is a gigantic douche, whereas jordan was just an occasional douche.

1/23/2006 6:44:38 PM