Quote :

"But it's been pointed out that we're talking about two different liberals here."

oh stfu. wooo hey everybody lets argue around the point because we know we're getting pwned.

2/5/2006 10:06:06 AM

no but you also said that christians dont go around getting militant like that...guess what, neither do muslims over here. that was my fucking point. dont compare xtians in the us to muslims in the middle east about that shit.

i said nothing about the rest of their culture either way.

2/5/2006 10:08:09 AM

Quote :

"wooo hey everybody lets argue around the point with no validity"

2/5/2006 10:11:11 AM

no pupils it is pretty obvious that defending 1 thing about a society or trying to understand it means you completely want to adopt the entire thing. i cant wait for the muslim party to rise up and restrict my rights. that makes all the xtian pushes in abortion, evolution theory, etc completely warranted and correct.

2/5/2006 10:13:38 AM

Quote :

"dont compare xtians in the us to muslims in the middle east about that shit."

I am comparing them because, in aggregate, the liberals who preach tolerance and "the need for understanding" of middle-eastern islam, are the same liberals driving their darwin-fish cars to see the elephant-dung madonna, the "jesus as osama" painting, the cross soaked in urine, and The Last Temptation of Christ (a movie which liberals still can't stop praising).

[Edited on February 5, 2006 at 10:18 AM. Reason : s]

2/5/2006 10:17:44 AM

although people should not be scared about what they draw or paint because of reprisal from the government, they should think to themselves if it's worth becoming known for being so distasteful. Then again, retards are willing to pay big money for rat stenciled on a canvas, so what do I know.

2/5/2006 10:20:11 AM

you were comparing how they act as groups though, which is obviously not going to be similar. theres a difference in domestic and global views/tolerances. we have different expectations. if you don't like that, fine, but it is true. think of it like your expectations for your family (or even neighborhood if your close) to the nation as a whole.

2/5/2006 10:25:49 AM

So you're claiming that liberals hold christians to a higher standard because they're the equivalent of their immediate family

yes, I could buy that comparison... but in return you should think of a liberal who calls for tolerance and understanding of radical islam, including radical elements within our own country, as a mom who starts dating and invites a convicted child-abuser into her home

[Edited on February 5, 2006 at 10:35 AM. Reason : s]

2/5/2006 10:35:04 AM

http://www.killingthebuddha.com/dogma/righttoblaspheme.htm

2/5/2006 10:42:01 AM

again, ive never agreed with everything their radicals do, but that doesnt mean we cant understand it. i dont think we have the same kind of radical craziness (nor would we tolerate it)here that they do there, so im not sure i agree with your new analogy.

2/5/2006 11:27:58 AM

Quote :

"are the same liberals driving their darwin-fish cars to see the elephant-dung madonna, the "jesus as osama" painting, the cross soaked in urine, and The Last Temptation of Christ (a movie which liberals still can't stop praising)."

I've never done any one of those things.

And I'm actually not offended by the cartoons after reading all of them.

2/5/2006 1:06:08 PM

Quote :

"I am comparing them because, in aggregate, the liberals who preach tolerance and "the need for understanding" of middle-eastern islam, are the same liberals driving their darwin-fish cars to see the elephant-dung madonna, the "jesus as osama" painting, the cross soaked in urine, and The Last Temptation of Christ (a movie which liberals still can't stop praising)."

oh, come on. thats a sloppy bunch of red herrings youre tossing here.

im a self-confessed bleeding heart liberal and I dont give a damn about madonna and her wrist string, or maplethorpe and his penises or piss jars.

but the fundamental pillar of liberalism is encapsulated in the First Amendment: the right to freedom of the press (and expression, and speech), the right to peaceably assemble (to address grievances, or whatever), and the right to have freedom of religion. which means to have religion free from state intervention and to have the state free from religious intervention, which was the original intent according to every mainstream constitutional scholar.

so madonna can preach Kabballa in her music, Maplethorpe can photograph penises and piss on crosses, and DaFoe can pretend he's Jesus all he wants (and it was a brilliant movie, BTW)

and Dutch cartoonists, or any cartoonists, can draw goddamn cartoons of Muhammed all they want.

I'm all for making efforts to understand the Mohammadeans. We're have to if we ever want peace... i mean, shit, even if your reason is for war, you still have to understand your adversary. (re: vietnam)

But Islam doesnt deserve any more or less respect than Xianty, Jewism, Hindoo or any other. and no one has a right to kill people over their own stupid religious beliefs whatever they are. if you want to believe in hell, fine whatever. if your concept of avoiding hell means not drawing Mohammed, thats just fucking groovy. So YOU dont draw him. okay. but if someone else wants to its their eternal soul, not yours. your god should be able to sort that out on her own.

your fundamental point is so logically flawed, im really surprised at you, cause i know youre smart enough to recognize that one ranting Dutch dude on some obscure weblog doesn't represent american liberalism, or liberalism in general. By your logic, Pat Robertson represents all conservative christians. even more so, because he has much wider audience than your single, nameless, dutch weblog poster as your example of "why iberalism is disdained"


[Edited on February 5, 2006 at 2:14 PM. Reason : ]

2/5/2006 2:14:37 PM

and Matt, you never answered my counter point:

if liberalism is (by your weak example) so "Incongruous", then please explain to me how the beloved conservatives, historical champions of laissez-faire government and state's rights, can keep a straight face while they defend their role in expanding the scope and breadth of an increasingly invasive and restrictive Federal Government?

2/5/2006 2:20:15 PM

Quote :

"I'm all for making efforts to understand the Mohammadeans."

Great way to put it, champ.

2/5/2006 2:20:37 PM

Quote :

"you should think of a liberal who calls for tolerance and understanding of radical islam, including radical elements within our own country, as a mom who starts dating and invites a convicted child-abuser into her home"

That's awesome.

Who is calling for "tolerance" of suicide bombings? Oh, right, NOBODY.

2/5/2006 2:25:30 PM

^^ that's the historical designation. its a subtle.. oh, never mind.



[Edited on February 5, 2006 at 2:26 PM. Reason : 2^]

2/5/2006 2:25:38 PM

^ Sure, but it's considered an insult.

2/5/2006 2:28:27 PM

OOH! A NEGRO!

2/5/2006 2:29:23 PM

^^ yeah, and I tried to insult the Mohammadeans, the Jews, the Hindoos, and the Jesus freaks all in one sentence.

thats my point. liberalism is fundamentally about freedom, even if its freedom to be an asshole. of course the ethical liberal strives for increasing understanding and acceptance and will self-censor in the interest of pluralism.

but failing that: fuck off. all of you take your silly gods home where they belong.




[Edited on February 5, 2006 at 2:35 PM. Reason : 2^ again]

2/5/2006 2:34:32 PM

what a retarded thread, another obvious trolling from this champ

2/5/2006 7:34:58 PM

I move that Excoriator should have to begin each of his threads with "Who's that tripping over my bridge?"

2/5/2006 11:14:13 PM

Quote :

"All that pent-up anger and bitterness towards southern-baptists that you guys KNOW you harbor "

now sit down

cause i know this might knock you over if you aren't

i am a southern baptist

(and i'm playing John the Baptist in our Easter Pageant, anyone who wants to come i will give you the info)

2/5/2006 11:17:26 PM

now, wtf does JtB have to do with easter? he was already dead long time.

wait.... he's not the guy in the pink bunny suit, is he?

2/5/2006 11:19:14 PM

jtb was an integral part of Jesus' being revealed to the people
at least two of Jesus' 12 disciples were followers of John first

2/6/2006 12:28:57 AM

Maybe Woodfoot is a genius actor and he happens to look like John the Baptist so they just HAD to use him.

DID YOU EVER THINK OF THAT?!?

2/6/2006 1:04:48 AM

palestine was filled with fat white guys who can't grow facial hair

you can check wikipedia
i'm about to update it with that information

2/6/2006 1:06:30 AM

scuse me if im wrong, but isnt easter about jesus gettin kilt and then coming back to life as the fertility goddess, and hiding hardboiled eggs and marshmallow peeps for all the believers to go find?

but seriously, JtB had his head served on a plate to Herodius a few years before all that easter bizniss occurred.

so... who's going to play mary and joseph in the manger scene?

2/6/2006 1:22:02 AM

its almost like the events in the play do not have to happen in real time

we do not have a joseph, but we do have a mary

Quote :

"but seriously, JtB had his head served on a plate to Herodius a few years before all that easter bizniss occurred"

you don't say!!!
i never would have known that

(ps, if you want to get techincal, it was "served on a plate" to salome)

[Edited on February 6, 2006 at 1:32 AM. Reason : herodius just made it happen]

2/6/2006 1:29:12 AM

^ you should have at least 3 maries.

2/6/2006 1:29:53 AM

i'm pretty sure we just have 2

2/6/2006 1:32:53 AM

mary the hooker, mary the virgin... but what about mary the footwasher? you cant forget the footwasher. and isnt there a mary the fishmonger who sells shellfish somewhere?

2/6/2006 1:55:43 AM

Last Monday in Qatar, former President Bill Clinton decried the "totally outrageous cartoons against Islam."

So stop denying this phenomenon.

2/6/2006 9:07:30 AM

well he was in....QATAR

[Edited on February 6, 2006 at 10:14 AM. Reason : you go talk shit about their prophets while chillin over in qatar]

2/6/2006 10:14:01 AM

A wise man once said that the way to bring political unity to our nation is to make the terrorists honorary republicans.

Jokes aside, I don't really believe that democrats intend to support muslim extremists. In practice they do because they are misguided by one of two things,

1. blind hatred of Bush
2. illogical pacifism: if we're nice to them they'll be nice to us.

[Edited on February 6, 2006 at 10:38 AM. Reason : .]

[Edited on February 6, 2006 at 10:38 AM. Reason : .]

2/6/2006 10:37:47 AM

Its not blasphemy to draw Jesus in an editorial cartoon anymore.

Its blasphemy to depict Muhammed in anyway, shape,or form.

The islamic world isn't used to open media mocking a fundamental part of islam as the Christian world is at this point. Even then, I'm pretty fucking sure I can dig up Christian overreaction to a lot of things (whats up Evolution?) that have no basis in reason.

In conclusion, way to miss the point as always, Excor.

2/6/2006 11:24:01 AM

im sorry, culture and religious differences is FAR too simple of an answer for this topic!!!!!

2/6/2006 11:29:17 AM